Kho-Khun Beef In Chiang Mai

[Mekong Bob]

I had a great piece of kho-khun beef at Chez Marco the other day - as good as any Australian or New Zealand beef I have had in Thailand.

Rimping (Nim City) sells this local beef, and it's aboot 1,300 baht per kilogram.

Has anyone found other restaurants in Chiang Mai which feature this beef on their menu?

[ARISTIDE]

I think best place to get Thai beef is here http://goo.gl/maps/mBpYF

IMHO higher quality than the NZ and Australian exports. They supply this to many restaurants including Miguel's.

I think Rimping beef (labled Rimping beef) could be KU Beef (Kasetsart University beef) or Thai French I'm not sure.

I think we can not trust the word 'kho-khun' in which in Thai it doen't mean a lot it's just mean 'good quality beef' which can be anything.

[junglechef]

I agree w/Aristide, no only the best I've found by a long shot but the also carry cuts that I've haven't been able to source here such as flank steal.

[Mekong Bob]

Thanks to Aristide, I now understand that the Thai term "kho-khun" beef is a general term referring to a wide variety of premium beef types. This premium beef is produced from cattle that are crosses between imported and native breeds. The premium beef female lines are derived from Brahman and native breeds crossed with imported breeds such as the Charolais

On my next trips to Rimping, Northern Farm, and Phonyangkham here in Chiang Mai, I will ask the butchers to be more specific about the premium (“kho-khun”) beef they offer. Phonyangkham is Thai-French beef, according to my Google research.

May I assume that “Thai-French beef” and “Kasetsart University beef” are specific beef types developed from specific breeds and cross-breeds of beef cattle in Thailand? What other premium beef types are produced in Thailand? Have these types been evaluated and ranked?

Hope there are some ThaiVisa members who can help us become better-informed consumers.

[kaptainrob]

With quality fresh pork and chicken so cheap at Makro, beef no longer holds the same appeal. I did notice a strip-loin of NZ beef in the freezer at 880 bt/kg which I thought reasonable.

I have yet to taste hi-quality Thai beef and curious to know how it compares with equivalent NZ/Aus cuts. Bob, what cut did you sample and how cooked?

[Mekong Bob]

With quality fresh pork and chicken so cheap at Makro, beef no longer holds the same appeal. I did notice a strip-loin of NZ beef in the freezer at 880 bt/kg which I thought reasonable.

I have yet to taste hi-quality Thai beef and curious to know how it compares with equivalent NZ/Aus cuts. Bob, what cut did you sample and how cooked?

At Chez Marco, I ordered a tenderloin, medium rare. It was very tender and very tasty, and I asked the waitress to confirm it is local Thai beef, and I asked where the restaurant buys this meat. She said they buy at Rimping, and next day I asked the Rimping (Nim City) chief butcher which beef is bought by Chez Marco. He showed me the tenderloin priced at about 1,300 baht per kilogram. As I recall, it was labeled "kho-khun" beef. The piece we grilled at home was equally delicious.

Rob, I'd be interested in seeing a list of "steak houses" in Chiang Mai, the type of premium steaks they serve, and their distributor. I'm thinking of such places as The Steak House (JJ Market); Phonyangkham Steak House; Steak House (Le Crystal); Riverside Market; Duke's; etc., with particular focus on local Thai premium steaks.

[cmbe]

+1 about Ponyangkham. http://www.ponyangkham-chiangmai.com/inc_index.php?show=product&page=2&cat_id=3

[ARISTIDE]

Provided we have good beef, I think the best steak is the one making at home and always much cheaper. Each person may have have their own way. What I do is rubbing the steak with a little seasoned salt or plain salt and leave it in a plastic bag overnight make it more tender and flavorful. To cook I always sear the meat on stove top just less than a minute on each side and finish the cooking in the oven make sure internal temperature doesn't exceed 71°C (medium) about 8 mins at 170c.

Other than that I'd go for the Duke by the river or Sizzler. I've never tried The Steak House (JJ Market). But I still think it's much better cooking at home.

Edited September 30, 2012 by ARISTIDE

[market trader]

With quality fresh pork and chicken so cheap at Makro, beef no longer holds the same appeal. I did notice a strip-loin of NZ beef in the freezer at 880 bt/kg which I thought reasonable.

I have yet to taste hi-quality Thai beef and curious to know how it compares with equivalent NZ/Aus cuts. Bob, what cut did you sample and how cooked?

Your mention of striploin at Makro reminds me how spoiled I became in North America. Many years ago I read a newspaper article about Henry Ford jr. ( Ford Auto Co.) He used to like his hamburgers made with striploin beef. So I figured if he can eat it so can I. Well it ruined me for life. From that time on any hamburger I had made with regular ground beef tasted like dog food. You should all do yourselves a favour once in your lifetime and make a hamburger with ground striploin.

[hellodolly]

I agree w/Aristide, no only the best I've found by a long shot but the also carry cuts that I've haven't been able to source here such as flank steal.

I thought I was the only one who liked flank steak. When ever Rimping has it I grab one. It is a tough cut of meat but that never bothered me. When I finally found it here the wife put some sort of seasoning tenderizer on it and just nuked it. I couldn't believe how tasty it was and no where near as tough as I was used to back in Canada.

As Rob says Chicken and Pork are so much cheaper over here that is the only time I eat beef except for the odd hamburger.

[junglechef]

I agree w/Aristide, no only the best I've found by a long shot but the also carry cuts that I've haven't been able to source here such as flank steal.

I thought I was the only one who liked flank steak. When ever Rimping has it I grab one. It is a tough cut of meat but that never bothered me. When I finally found it here the wife put some sort of seasoning tenderizer on it and just nuked it. I couldn't believe how tasty it was and no where near as tough as I was used to back in Canada.

As Rob says Chicken and Pork are so much cheaper over here that is the only time I eat beef except for the odd hamburger.

They usually have it at the Pongyangkam store and other cuts that you might enjoy. As with all food products it's about the proper handling beginning with buying to the plating. Two of the most important details concerning beef is choosing a correct cooking method and cutting the meat against the grain when applicable (this will make it much more tender). The thought of using tenderizer and a microwave goes against the principles I know and follow in my kitchen but if it works and you enjoy your a lucky man to have a wife that can please your palate!

[Mekong Bob]

I agree w/Aristide, no only the best I've found by a long shot but the also carry cuts that I've haven't been able to source here such as flank steal.

I thought I was the only one who liked flank steak. When ever Rimping has it I grab one. It is a tough cut of meat but that never bothered me. When I finally found it here the wife put some sort of seasoning tenderizer on it and just nuked it. I couldn't believe how tasty it was and no where near as tough as I was used to back in Canada.

As Rob says Chicken and Pork are so much cheaper over here that is the only time I eat beef except for the odd hamburger.

They usually have it at the Pongyangkam store and other cuts that you might enjoy. As with all food products it's about the proper handling beginning with buying to the plating. Two of the most important details concerning beef is choosing a correct cooking method and cutting the meat against the grain when applicable (this will make it much more tender). The thought of using tenderizer and a microwave goes against the principles I know and follow in my kitchen but if it works and you enjoy your a lucky man to have a wife that can please your palate!

I'm still struggling with making the best selection - where to buy in Chiang Mai (meat markets or restaurants); aging of the beef; variety of cuts; marbling; and (of course) price.

Junglechef offers excellent tips on preparing the selected piece of beef, and I will pass these on to my wife for sure.

[kaptainrob]

You might look at Makro, Hang Dong Rd. Not sure if SuperHwy is as good, but Makro supply restaurants and hotels with a wide variety of quality beef, fresh and frozen.

Makro's prices appear >25% lower than equivalent produce/meats in Rimping, Tesco Lotus or BigC.

Eg: chicken Maryland 1kg @ 49bt; middle wing drums @ 66bt; pork collar/neck (great for roast or curry) @ 115bt. Can't quote any other beef other than that NZ striploin @ 880 Bt.

[scorecard]

With quality fresh pork and chicken so cheap at Makro, beef no longer holds the same appeal. I did notice a strip-loin of NZ beef in the freezer at 880 bt/kg which I thought reasonable.

I have yet to taste hi-quality Thai beef and curious to know how it compares with equivalent NZ/Aus cuts. Bob, what cut did you sample and how cooked?

An Aussie friend recently mentioned he bought several frozen rabbits at Makro in Pitsanalook, roasted them with bread and onion stuffing and cascus wrapped in bacon (actually my others favorite rabbit recipe), with excellent results.

Makso staff apparently mentioned they try to keep rabbits in stock at all times but difficult to get a continuous supply which matches their hygiene and quality standards.

[NeverSure]

The one thing I wish I was allowed to do in Thailand is buy beef on the hoof and finish it. I grew up around cattle and my ex was raised on a 4,000 acre ranch. For 30 years I helped with everything from roundup to killing and butchering for family use. There are some critical steps which if missed can ruin the meat.

You have to grain feed that animal properly for at least the last 60 days.

You have to clean and skin a steer immediately after slaughter. You have to get the excess fat off the outside.

Animals produce adreneline too which can affect the flavor. It has to be very calm when killed, and killed so quickly it never knows it.

You have to hang that carcass at least until rigor mortis passes or it will be tough meat. Say a minimun of a week. Good hanging temperature is about 35 degrees F (that's 3 degrees above freezing.) It's best to hang it for about 3 weeks at that temp because enzymes will continue to break down the connective tissues during that time and give you very tender meat.

You have to know how to butcher it to get the best cuts of meat.

It doesn't matter the breed, you can still ruin it at some step.

I still finish my own beef. I buy a steer that's about a year+ old and finish it the last two or three months myself.

I'll bet there are at least some Aussies, Canadians and US people here, and maybe others who know what makes great beef.

[Mekong Bob]

Phonyangkham supplies Thai-French premium beef to an impressive list of Chiang Mai restaurants and hotels, including Four Seasons; Duke's; Riverside Market; Khanthary Hills; Yummy Pizza; et al. Phongyangkham's highest-priced beef in stock is tenderloin, priced at about 1,300 baht per kilo. This is the "regular grade" tenderloin, and it's the tenderloin ordered by most hotels and restaurants. Their "grade A" tenderloin (best marbling) is about 1,400 baht per kilo, but there's little to no demand for it in Chiang Mai at this time. None in stock.

Rimping is stocked with the Kasetsart University premium beef (the other Thailand "kho-khun" premium beef). Chez Marco Restaurant prefers the KU beef.

I'll continue to develop these details (for my own interest), but will be happy to post what I find for my fellow beef-lovers on ThaiVisa.

[ARISTIDE]

From what I know there's higher quality Thai French and not so high quality e.g those sell at Tops at much cheaper price.

[slapout]

As neversure pointed out the grain for 2 + months puts the finish on beef and hanging time determines tenderness and taste, to a degree. There does not seem to be much consintency in that regard, just judging by what I see offered at the various fresh beef counters here in CM.

It would help if they would invest in a tenderizer machine and run the tougher cuts (top round, etc) thru 2 or 3 times so as to make a pan fried steak. If the other half is angry, she does okay with the tenderizer hammer, but not sure its worth the hot tongue and cold shoulder associated with the anger.

[NeverSure]

As neversure pointed out the grain for 2 + months puts the finish on beef and hanging time determines tenderness and taste, to a degree. There does not seem to be much consintency in that regard, just judging by what I see offered at the various fresh beef counters here in CM.

You could think of finishing a beef exactly the opposite of getting yourself in shape. You want the animal penned up so it can't exercise and lose body fat and strengthen its muscles. You want it to eat grain, especially corn (carbs including sugars) so it's muscles (the meat you eat) gets marbled with fat. You want it to gain fat weight. When you've done that for 2 or 3 months it's ready. After that it's all in how you handle it until it reaches the table.

I would absolutely love to do this in Thailand. Buy feeder steers at about 1 year old and finish them.

[hellodolly]

I agree w/Aristide, no only the best I've found by a long shot but the also carry cuts that I've haven't been able to source here such as flank steal.

I thought I was the only one who liked flank steak. When ever Rimping has it I grab one. It is a tough cut of meat but that never bothered me. When I finally found it here the wife put some sort of seasoning tenderizer on it and just nuked it. I couldn't believe how tasty it was and no where near as tough as I was used to back in Canada.

As Rob says Chicken and Pork are so much cheaper over here that is the only time I eat beef except for the odd hamburger.

They usually have it at the Pongyangkam store and other cuts that you might enjoy. As with all food products it's about the proper handling beginning with buying to the plating. Two of the most important details concerning beef is choosing a correct cooking method and cutting the meat against the grain when applicable (this will make it much more tender). The thought of using tenderizer and a microwave goes against the principles I know and follow in my kitchen but if it works and you enjoy your a lucky man to have a wife that can please your palate!

With Flank steak you don't have to cut it until after it is cooked and then into bite sizes like a roast you cut it after it is cooked.

As for the microwave I would never have considered that in Canada or meat tenderizer. How ever as I said it comes out more tender and tasteful than it did in Canada. I know the taste could possibly have nothing to do with the cooking.

To top it all off I am not a fussy eater. Good or better I will eat it bad and I won't eat it. For some reason the way she does it comes out better. One more thing She does not really know how to cook very well. Go figure

Edited October 1, 2012 by hellodolly

[NeverSure]

Browning meat caramelizes the sugars in it and adds a lot to the flavor. I even brown a roast on the BBQ before it goes into the overn.

Last week I slow cooked a 6 quart crock pot full of round roast. I cut the meat into about 2" squares, trimmed most fat off and browned those squares in a skillet. Then I put them all into the crock pot with 1 cup of water, salt and pepper, onion, and garlic. I put the lid on and cooked on low for 8 hours until the meat would easily shred with a large cooking fork. I poured off and saved the beef stock, shredded the meat and put it into containers in the freezer. Now I have french dip sandwiches, roast beef, cold roast beef sandwiches, etc. etc.

Now you can microwave that just enough to heat it out of the fridge. That meat is awesome tender, moist, and flavored.

[hellodolly]

Browning meat caramelizes the sugars in it and adds a lot to the flavor. I even brown a roast on the BBQ before it goes into the overn.

Last week I slow cooked a 6 quart crock pot full of round roast. I cut the meat into about 2" squares, trimmed most fat off and browned those squares in a skillet. Then I put them all into the crock pot with 1 cup of water, salt and pepper, onion, and garlic. I put the lid on and cooked on low for 8 hours until the meat would easily shred with a large cooking fork. I poured off and saved the beef stock, shredded the meat and put it into containers in the freezer. Now I have french dip sandwiches, roast beef, cold roast beef sandwiches, etc. etc.

Now you can microwave that just enough to heat it out of the fridge. That meat is awesome tender, moist, and flavored.

What time is dinner?

[ARISTIDE]

Sounds very nice, I made a lot of ciabatta bread and potato buns for sandwich may be I could borrow some of that roast of yours.

Browning meat caramelizes the sugars in it and adds a lot to the flavor. I even brown a roast on the BBQ before it goes into the overn.

Last week I slow cooked a 6 quart crock pot full of round roast. I cut the meat into about 2" squares, trimmed most fat off and browned those squares in a skillet. Then I put them all into the crock pot with 1 cup of water, salt and pepper, onion, and garlic. I put the lid on and cooked on low for 8 hours until the meat would easily shred with a large cooking fork. I poured off and saved the beef stock, shredded the meat and put it into containers in the freezer. Now I have french dip sandwiches, roast beef, cold roast beef sandwiches, etc. etc.

Now you can microwave that just enough to heat it out of the fridge. That meat is awesome tender, moist, and flavored.