Case Closed On The Deaths Of Canadian Sisters Audrey And Noemi Belanger: Krabi

[HUAHIN62]

Guys they are honoring the request of the family. There are a 99,999% change that it was not DEET that killed them and that the police action are aimed at protecting the image of the two sisters. They do it many times according a friend of mine in the tourist police. When a married guy dies of a heart attack while being with a prostitute they will never release the full details of the case. They will only say the guy died of an heart attack. This is part of Thai culture not to blemish the image of a dead person. The ultimate saving face.

[Jayman]

Guys they are honoring the request of the family. There are a 99,999% change that it was not DEET that killed them and that the police action are aimed at protecting the image of the two sisters. They do it many times according a friend of mine in the tourist police. When a married guy dies of a heart attack while being with a prostitute they will never release the full details of the case. They will only say the guy died of an heart attack. This is part of Thai culture not to blemish the image of a dead person. The ultimate saving face.

You're joking right? Just a few weeks ago a German married biz owner was robbed by some lady boys and they not only printed that he took them to a hotel for sex but also his name and a google maps location to his business.

edit: I just read again your post and see your comments are ONLY related to deceased. OK, I might buy that. Thais have very little respect for the living but the dead they honor with every last thb they can scrape up.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Jayman

[Globeman]

Cause of death was determined and family requested no further action. What more do you want?

Why should it be entirely up to a Canadian family to decide there should be no further action in a case of justice in Thailand? Who is to say that whoever poisoned them hasn't poisoned others before, or won't harm others in the future? Find out how they were poisoned and why - that's what I want.

[ukrules]

so case closed.. police claiming they died from DEET ingestion from a cocktail called 4 x100 that normally doesn't contain DEET. Am I missing anything else here?

No need to investigate who put this deadly DEET in their drink? Since they drank it that means they are at fault? Amazing Thailand indeed.

I don't think you're missing anything.

Someone added a lethal quantity of poison to the cocktails and after they drank the drinks they died.

That sounds like a classic case of poisoning.

Now everyone including the family are covering it up for some reason. That's the strange part.

Edited October 3, 2012 by ukrules

[ozziebloke]

Cause of death was determined and family requested no further action. What more do you want?

Why should it be entirely up to a Canadian family to decide there should be no further action in a case of justice in Thailand? Who is to say that whoever poisoned them hasn't poisoned others before, or won't harm others in the future? Find out how they were poisoned and why - that's what I want.

It was not stated that the Canadian family decided there should be no further action

“We have been asked by the Canadian Embassy and the [belanger] family to not reveal anything about the case. We are standing by that.

[HUAHIN62]

Maybe my first post was not clear enough. There is a very good chance that the DEET was in something the sisters consumed. That something is illegal and the guy in the CCTV footage sold that something to the sisters. Thus the DEET killed the sisters but it was not in the cocktails it was in something else. If the police investigate the case further everyone will know what that something else was and then the image of the sisters will suffer damage.

[alanferdi]

so case closed.. police claiming they died from DEET ingestion from a cocktail called 4 x100 that normally doesn't contain DEET. Am I missing anything else here?

No need to investigate who put this deadly DEET in their drink? Since they drank it that means they are at fault? Amazing Thailand indeed.

Yes....my heart cry and perhaps those who know these two human beings so well.... would like to see justice! Instead... all the paper work, a court case with peoples money and a conclusion - Case closed.... Thailand can smile again and await for the next batch of Farangs to fall prey. What are the police doing with this supposedly DEET in the drinks... seem common to Thai stomachs. Is then legal to market? Is this the reason why they have increased the TAX on foreign drinks, that they can force locally brewed drinks for foreigner to stomach this type of concoction? Thailand Amazing Thailand...TAT, Far from the real thing!!! Keep smiling! Keep pretending you have a system that can eradicate corruption.

[alanferdi]

The one thing that bothers me somewhat in this is that Thai police normally don't give a dam_n about the wishes of victims' families or foreign embassies of insignificant nations like Canada - only China, Japan and the US count. They happily accept bribes from journalists to let them in to crime scenes to disturb evidence and take gruesome pictures which they splatter offensively over the media and they gaily stage re-enactments of crimes for their own amusement that must be heart rending for victims' family and are of no investigative value.

Can someone tell me how so many here on TV have so much knowledge about all the facets of of the BIB and any associates,Foreign issues regarding foreign governments, Police proticol, Regulation and evidence divolgence?

IGNORANCE AND GREED.... these words do not mean a thing to them, specially when it comes from a Farang... To the average Thai a Farang is ignorant because he does not abide to their pretense and smile game. Try talking sense to any person in higher position in the POLICE...they simply ignore you! Talk to those in Government office about offenses... they simply ignore...and mutter under breath. Everyone is supposed to go into a position of beg. Its being handed down through the education system. They never question they only accept with a smile.

[NomadJoe]

Not that I believe the claim the police are making for one second, but the fact that a family member, or anyone, can tell the police to not investigate a possible homicide shows the incredibly rudimentary level of policing and investigating that exists here. I knew it was bad, but not that bad.

[crazykopite]

Someone was responsible for the death of these two girls yet the police have closed the case This can only happen in amazing Thailand anywhere else in the world the case would remain open for many years yet within 6 months this case has been closed and the person who did this evil deed is free to do it again Tourists should be aware very aware with what they are drinking in that area R.I.P to the sisters.

[stingray]

The Wild Wild East.

You're on your own in Thailand, kids.

It's not only in Thailand, its in Europe the same. Police can handle only parking and speed tickets. That's all thay can and the easiest way to collect money, but as i said: This is absolutely not only in Thailand, this is everywhere the same. Once you have a problem, the police ist not interested in helping you, Even in my homecoutry, the same!

[Tanaka]

Unbelievable..! Truly unbelievable...! I do not believe what they are saying at all..... ! <deleted> is going on here...??

“We have been asked by the Canadian Embassy and the [belanger] family to not reveal anything about the case

That's whats' going on

Of course. If someone, anyone asks the Thai Police not to continue their murder investigation or question vitnesses or suspects, the Thai Police obliges and closes the murder case!!! The Thai Police and the entire judicial system is lower than pathetic and worse than a joke.

[davejones]

I hate to inject facts here when speculating is so much fun but consider this: The dose of DEET that is required to kill 50% of the rats treated is over 2 grams DEET per kilogram body weight of the rat (source: USEPA). Assuming that htese unfortunate women weighed 60 g, they would each have had to ingest 120 grams of DEET to have a 50% chance of dying from the exposure. This would be about 4 ounces of pure DEET. However, the most concentrated form sold commercially is 41% meaning that they would each have had to drink at least an 8 ounce tumbler of the straight product. I don't think it is possible for anyone to get drunk enough not to notice that they were drinking a glass of mosquito repellant.

So, as convenient as it is to blame all ills on chemicals, it does not seem plausible in this case and the the cause of justice is ill served by accepting this at face value.

You have obviously missed the fact that many rats die at much lower doses. So humans can also die taking less. 50% won't always die. That's just an average. Other things come into play, such as alcohol ingested, state of health, etc. Did you check for experiments where rats were given DEET and alcohol. You obviously don't understand how these tests work.

[ozziebloke]

Not that I believe the claim the police are making for one second, but the fact that a family member, or anyone, can tell the police to not investigate a possible homicide shows the incredibly rudimentary level of policing and investigating that exists here. I knew it was bad, but not that bad.

They didn't tell the police to not investigate! Read the article. They said "

“We have been asked by the Canadian Embassy and the [belanger] family to not reveal anything about the case. We are standing by that."

[bobo42]

I hate to inject facts here when speculating is so much fun but consider this: The dose of DEET that is required to kill 50% of the rats treated is over 2 grams DEET per kilogram body weight of the rat (source: USEPA). Assuming that htese unfortunate women weighed 60 g, they would each have had to ingest 120 grams of DEET to have a 50% chance of dying from the exposure. This would be about 4 ounces of pure DEET. However, the most concentrated form sold commercially is 41% meaning that they would each have had to drink at least an 8 ounce tumbler of the straight product. I don't think it is possible for anyone to get drunk enough not to notice that they were drinking a glass of mosquito repellant.

So, as convenient as it is to blame all ills on chemicals, it does not seem plausible in this case and the the cause of justice is ill served by accepting this at face value.

Actually, 100% DEET sprays can be purchased in the US, any sporting good store has them. I have a 1oz bottle, and I think they sell up to 6oz bottles. This does not invalidate your main point, though - just clearing up the facts.

[davejones]

The one thing that bothers me somewhat in this is that Thai police normally don't give a dam_n about the wishes of victims' families or foreign embassies of insignificant nations like Canada - only China, Japan and the US count. They happily accept bribes from journalists to let them in to crime scenes to disturb evidence and take gruesome pictures which they splatter offensively over the media and they gaily stage re-enactments of crimes for their own amusement that must be heart rending for victims' family and are of no investigative value.

Can someone tell me how so many here on TV have so much knowledge about all the facets of of the BIB and any associates,Foreign issues regarding foreign governments, Police proticol, Regulation and evidence divolgence?

Yeah mate,.. just live here for a few years and keep your ears and eyes open !

But all people like you see and hear is the drivel posted on TV.

Edited October 3, 2012 by davejones

[davejones]

As has been mentioned before, we know that DEET is hardly poisonous at all - even people that have tried to commit suicide using it have failed after drinking a good quantity of it!

Another BS BIB story...

Why don't you prove it to us by drinking a few of these cocktails. Where shall we meet you?

[ozziebloke]

The one thing that bothers me somewhat in this is that Thai police normally don't give a dam_n about the wishes of victims' families or foreign embassies of insignificant nations like Canada - only China, Japan and the US count. They happily accept bribes from journalists to let them in to crime scenes to disturb evidence and take gruesome pictures which they splatter offensively over the media and they gaily stage re-enactments of crimes for their own amusement that must be heart rending for victims' family and are of no investigative value.

Can someone tell me how so many here on TV have so much knowledge about all the facets of of the BIB and any associates,Foreign issues regarding foreign governments, Police proticol, Regulation and evidence divolgence?

IGNORANCE AND GREED.... these words do not mean a thing to them, specially when it comes from a Farang... To the average Thai a Farang is ignorant because he does not abide to their pretense and smile game. Try talking sense to any person in higher position in the POLICE...they simply ignore you! Talk to those in Government office about offenses... they simply ignore...and mutter under breath. Everyone is supposed to go into a position of beg. Its being handed down through the education system. They never question they only accept with a smile.

Point of veiw or experiance? Seems by your writings you got stung for something you did wrong ?

[davejones]

Cause of death was determined and family requested no further action. What more do you want?

Why should it be entirely up to a Canadian family to decide there should be no further action in a case of justice in Thailand? Who is to say that whoever poisoned them hasn't poisoned others before, or won't harm others in the future? Find out how they were poisoned and why - that's what I want.

What proof do you have that someone poisoned them? You want someone brought to justice fr something that might not have happened. So what exactly do you want. The investigation is complete, no foul play has been found, and they are requesting the wish of the family to not give details. Sounds like everything has been done properly.

[davejones]

Cause of death was determined and family requested no further action. What more do you want?

Why should it be entirely up to a Canadian family to decide there should be no further action in a case of justice in Thailand? Who is to say that whoever poisoned them hasn't poisoned others before, or won't harm others in the future? Find out how they were poisoned and why - that's what I want.

It was not stated that the Canadian family decided there should be no further action

“We have been asked by the Canadian Embassy and the [belanger] family to not reveal anything about the case. We are standing by that.

But that is the same as not taking any further action. If someone was to be arrested and charged, then the police would have to reveal in court what happened. The family don't want this. It sounds to me like it is the girls that are to blame, so the family don't want it to be made public. Do the family know the man concerned. There is a lot to this that we don't know, so no point speculating. Just accept it that the case is closed.

[jsflynn603]

I hate to inject facts here when speculating is so much fun but consider this: The dose of DEET that is required to kill 50% of the rats treated is over 2 grams DEET per kilogram body weight of the rat (source: USEPA). Assuming that htese unfortunate women weighed 60 g, they would each have had to ingest 120 grams of DEET to have a 50% chance of dying from the exposure. This would be about 4 ounces of pure DEET. However, the most concentrated form sold commercially is 41% meaning that they would each have had to drink at least an 8 ounce tumbler of the straight product. I don't think it is possible for anyone to get drunk enough not to notice that they were drinking a glass of mosquito repellant.

So, as convenient as it is to blame all ills on chemicals, it does not seem plausible in this case and the the cause of justice is ill served by accepting this at face value.

You have obviously missed the fact that many rats die at much lower doses. So humans can also die taking less. 50% won't always die. That's just an average. Other things come into play, such as alcohol ingested, state of health, etc. Did you check for experiments where rats were given DEET and alcohol. You obviously don't understand how these tests work.

Actually Anonymous did not miss the fact that many rats die at much lower doses. You are simply pulling that fact out of your as.... uh hat. It is far more likely that the LDL50 has a fairly narrow range, not a broad one.

DEET method of death would by inhibition of acetylcholinesterase which essentially shuts down neurons. Alcohol is not an inhibitor of cholinesterase and therefore would likely be only a minor factor. Were there certain insecticides such as carbamates then there would be a synergistic effect.

Anonymous's analysis in my book stands rather true if one considers the low of DEET's LDL50 as being around 1750mg/kilogram. Even using the higher LDL50 of 1800mg/kg (notice the tight range) and choosing the smaller of the two women, assuming a 95lb frame (43kg) one comes up with a lethal dose being around 77grams for the smaller woman. There are few products which contain 100% DEET, but there are some and such as Coleman's 100% DEET, and Ben's products and these are fairly expensive and most come in 4 oz sized bottles or less. Therefore one would have to pour an entire bottle into the drink if the mix were to be imbibed by two.

Bottom line is: DEET did not kill these two women.

Edited October 3, 2012 by jsflynn603

[davejones]

Not that I believe the claim the police are making for one second, but the fact that a family member, or anyone, can tell the police to not investigate a possible homicide shows the incredibly rudimentary level of policing and investigating that exists here. I knew it was bad, but not that bad.

I think you have missed the point completely. Obviously neither the family or police think it was homicide, otherwise the case wouldn't be closed. The family haven't told the police not to investigate a possible homicide. So don't make up things that aren't true.

[davejones]

Someone was responsible for the death of these two girls yet the police have closed the case This can only happen in amazing Thailand anywhere else in the world the case would remain open for many years yet within 6 months this case has been closed and the person who did this evil deed is free to do it again Tourists should be aware very aware with what they are drinking in that area R.I.P to the sisters.

Maybe the sisters are to blame, so there is no-one to prosecute. Try to think this through properly before making silly comments.

[davejones]

Unbelievable..! Truly unbelievable...! I do not believe what they are saying at all..... ! <deleted> is going on here...??

“We have been asked by the Canadian Embassy and the [belanger] family to not reveal anything about the case

That's whats' going on

Of course. If someone, anyone asks the Thai Police not to continue their murder investigation or question vitnesses or suspects, the Thai Police obliges and closes the murder case!!! The Thai Police and the entire judicial system is lower than pathetic and worse than a joke.

There is no murder case because the girls weren't murdered. Is that simple enough for you to understand? No-one has asked the police to stop a murder investigation.

[pedro01]

Cause of death was determined and family requested no further action. What more do you want?

How about those that caused the death to be arrested.

What if those people are no longer with us?

Are you saying this was a accidental/intentional suicide?

My thoughts are that if the family is happy that the case be closed and don't want info disclosed, then it could be that enough has been discovered to point back to the poor girls themselves.

I don't think a Canadian family would lie down on this if they thought someone else was responsible.

It really is unfortunate.

Perhaps the girls knew that DEET was going in some of these party drinks and tried to make their own.

[ozziebloke]

@ davejones

But that is the same as not taking any further action. If someone was to be arrested and charged, then the police would have to reveal in court what happened. The family don't want this. It sounds to me like it is the girls that are to blame, so the family don't want it to be made public. Do the family know the man concerned. There is a lot to this that we don't know, so no point speculating. Just accept it that the case is closed.

couldn't it just be that the family are just a very private family and not wish to share with the world the loss of their daughters and the circumstances sarrounding the loss ?

[Beetlejuice]

The message I am reading here is that there is more to this case, details in which the girls family do not wish to have disclosed.

I would guess that the family have good reasons. Perhaps on the night the girls over indulged in whatever they were indulging in and any results published would not benefit the family or the memory of the girls.

This means that we have no idea as to what were the actual circumstances that lead to the girls deaths at the time. So fair enough, that’s it, end of story.

[Andre0720]

Not that I believe the claim the police are making for one second, but the fact that a family member, or anyone, can tell the police to not investigate a possible homicide shows the incredibly rudimentary level of policing and investigating that exists here. I knew it was bad, but not that bad.

I think you have missed the point completely. Obviously neither the family or police think it was homicide, otherwise the case wouldn't be closed. The family haven't told the police not to investigate a possible homicide. So don't make up things that aren't true.

Obviously, we will never know what happened, for may reasons.

Thailand has reasons for not scaring tourists away, and is certainly one of these reasons.

Another reason is possibly the dificulty in determining who is responsible for these deaths.

I am a canadian. I have given up on hoping to find out the truth behind this.

Quite possibly the family has given up likewise.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Andre0720

[RogueLeader]

“We are now preparing the documents to be sent to the Canadian Embassy. I have informed them that the case is closed. All the official documents will be sent today as soon as we finished copying them,” he added.

He misspelled 'shredding'.

[Bounty01hunter]

ha, this is one way of reclaiming their land back....Sad