Living Off Your Investments ...

[Napolean_Complex]

Okay, lets take it to a vote.

I got 440,000 CAD, im 26 and think that I should be able to get about 90,000 THB/month out of that, without going into the principle.

Would you do it? Yea or nay.

I vote no. You are too young to do that unless you have good reason to believe that life expectancy prediction is likely.

If you did try that, I would put most of it into much higher risk investments, growth and value stocks, diversified internationally, and start out your withdrawal at 4 percent (over 17,000 per year Canadian) and increase the withdrawal rate every year a tiny bit for inflation adjustment.

As far as your assertion that you can earn over 1 million baht a year from 440 CAD, year after year, I am skeptical. How exactly?

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

So 440,000CAD should pay (assuming all in BMO's income trust fund) should pay 2640 CAD/month and conterting to THB(34THB/1CAD) should mean 89760/month. Of course I dont account for inflation here at all, But im not eating into my capital, this one is low risk, 15 year history with steady returns, and I only plan on taking 60,000THB of this per month so Ill be saving around 30KTHB every month so I can keep up with the inflation and everything.

Of coure I still plan on diversifying my money, im just using this for an example.

I have built a house already, have bought a motorbike, and still plan on working teaching the kiddies english if I can.

[BlackJack]

I've always looked on insurance as something to be avoided if possible, as one is of course giving away a considerable amount to run the insurance company and give it a profit.

I think when it becomes necessary is if any risk is likely to cost more than a modest %age of your wealth, such that it would really lower your future standard of living.

So as for my car, what's the downside? Most accidents are likely to cost less than 50,000baht. Worst, very unlikely indeed, is replacement car, say 750,000. That is a very slight chance of the loss of a %age of my capital. Therefore I pay 1000baht legal minimum insurance.

Trying to extend this to health, yes of course in the US it's likely to break you because of the criminal pricing there. But I have just visited a friend who's had a very serious heart episode aged 78.

Pacemaker will cost 200kbaht. Angiogram not sure but I'm guessing less than half that. Care, well it's been pretty cheap for me. Had a friend had a colostomy and reversal, everything cost about 3000GBP. So let's suppose it's much worse than these. Bypass and all the trimmings. I can only guess a real bad episode might come to a million or two. Well maybe it's worth once again "insuring oneself".

I'd be very interested to know what big or biggish health problems have cost people and hope it's considered right on topic as it will help me decide if I'm doing the right thing or need to adjust my future financial needs.

I think we tend to try too hard these days to make life "risk free". Those in the US have to seriously compromise their health mental and physical and quality of life by overworking to pay for healthcare. There is no such thing as absolute security, and I think there's a certain freedom to be gained in letting it go a bit.

So any health costs here available?

what prompted me to get insurance was that i watched my friends business expand and the money started coming in as well. We ate at some top restaurants and drank and had a lot of fun. His waist expanded too and watching footy on TV one day he had 2 heart attacks. No one expected it. It cost 1 million. So we all went to get checked and then got insurance

I pay 27K baht per year for 1 million but now I joined a group policy and its less than 20K for 1.5 million baht cover

if you want i can check more for you so send me an PM

the other thing that surprised me was the bail bond on insurance if you drive a motor vehical

If after the accident the police cant sort out whos right and whos wrong they lock you both up and for a thai its 100K bail bond and 200K for the falang

so for less than 4K you can get car and bike insurance cover including this extra bail bond

for me its a no brainer - part of your investment portfolio is having health insurance

PS - as my friend was not insured for hospital and medical he NOW cannot get insurance as its classed as pre existing

So get in now before you get a sickness

ALso after 65 years old is harder to get cover -

[lannarebirth]

I'd say if you could get your nest egg up to 600k $CDN, and reinvest 1/3 of your monthly distribution, then maybe you could make a go of it here as far as <i>living expenses</i> go. BUT, that doesn't count capital drawdown for things like a house, car, etc. Also, that estimate is based on $CDN staying at or above .9 $USD.

Edited September 7, 2006 by lannarebirth

[Roamin]

I've always looked on insurance as something to be avoided if possible, as one is of course giving away a considerable amount to run the insurance company and give it a profit.

I think when it becomes necessary is if any risk is likely to cost more than a modest %age of your wealth, such that it would really lower your future standard of living.

So as for my car, what's the downside? Most accidents are likely to cost less than 50,000baht. Worst, very unlikely indeed, is replacement car, say 750,000. That is a very slight chance of the loss of a %age of my capital. Therefore I pay 1000baht legal minimum insurance.

Trying to extend this to health, yes of course in the US it's likely to break you because of the criminal pricing there. But I have just visited a friend who's had a very serious heart episode aged 78.

Pacemaker will cost 200kbaht. Angiogram not sure but I'm guessing less than half that. Care, well it's been pretty cheap for me. Had a friend had a colostomy and reversal, everything cost about 3000GBP. So let's suppose it's much worse than these. Bypass and all the trimmings. I can only guess a real bad episode might come to a million or two. Well maybe it's worth once again "insuring oneself".

I'd be very interested to know what big or biggish health problems have cost people and hope it's considered right on topic as it will help me decide if I'm doing the right thing or need to adjust my future financial needs.

I think we tend to try too hard these days to make life "risk free". Those in the US have to seriously compromise their health mental and physical and quality of life by overworking to pay for healthcare. There is no such thing as absolute security, and I think there's a certain freedom to be gained in letting it go a bit.

So any health costs here available?

Yes. August 2004 to August 2005 chemotherapy for cancer at Bumrungrad Hospital cost B5,641,571. So far this year has cost B1,968,853. There are records for Sep-Dec 04 but I didn't keep them properly. But figures I have given you come to about US$200,000.

So go get health insurance.

[BlackJack]

Okay, lets take it to a vote.

I got 440,000 CAD, im 26 and think that I should be able to get about 90,000 THB/month out of that, without going into the principle.

Would you do it? Yea or nay.

I vote no. You are too young to do that unless you have good reason to believe that life expectancy prediction is likely.

If you did try that, I would put most of it into much higher risk investments, growth and value stocks, diversified internationally, and start out your withdrawal at 4 percent (over 17,000 per year Canadian) and increase the withdrawal rate every year a tiny bit for inflation adjustment.

As far as your assertion that you can earn over 1 million baht a year from 440 CAD, year after year, I am skeptical. How exactly?

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

So 440,000CAD should pay (assuming all in BMO's income trust fund) should pay 2640 CAD/month and conterting to THB(34THB/1CAD) should mean 89760/month. Of course I dont account for inflation here at all, But im not eating into my capital, this one is low risk, 15 year history with steady returns, and I only plan on taking 60,000THB of this per month so Ill be saving around 30KTHB every month so I can keep up with the inflation and everything.

Of coure I still plan on diversifying my money, im just using this for an example.

I have built a house already, have bought a motorbike, and still plan on working teaching the kiddies english if I can.

any tax to pay?

[Roamin]

[quote

So any health costs here available?

Yes. August 2004 to August 2005 chemotherapy for cancer at Bumrungrad Hospital cost B5,641,571. So far this year has cost B1,968,853. There are records for Sep-Dec 04 but I didn't keep them properly. But figures I have given you come to about US$200,000.

So go get health insurance.

Found the costs for Sep-Dec 05 (not 04 as mentioned above). Costs were B470,622. Then add PET/CT scans done in HK, another B150,000. So now we are at B8,231,046 or about US$211,000.

Go get health insurance!

[migrant]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

So 440,000CAD should pay (assuming all in BMO's income trust fund) should pay 2640 CAD/month and conterting to THB(34THB/1CAD) should mean 89760/month. Of course I dont account for inflation here at all, But im not eating into my capital, this one is low risk, 15 year history with steady returns, and I only plan on taking 60,000THB of this per month so Ill be saving around 30KTHB every month so I can keep up with the inflation and everything.

Of coure I still plan on diversifying my money, im just using this for an example.

I have built a house already, have bought a motorbike, and still plan on working teaching the kiddies english if I can.

I'll go against the grain here a little with a suggestion. From the above post it sounds as if you've spent time in Thailand, so no comments on a trial run, I'll assume you know it here.

BUT, at your age lots can change, and a number of years relaxing in Thailand (or teaching english) doesn't help the old resume. IF you ever decide to go back, for whatever reason, you will probably starting from ground zero, at a older age and may never 'catch up'.

So the retention of your principal, to me, would be essential.

Give it a shot, spend only the earnings( or less), and enjoy it. Retirement is wasted on the old

[LoveDaBlues]

Okay, lets take it to a vote.

I got 440,000 CAD, im 26 and think that I should be able to get about 90,000 THB/month out of that, without going into the principle.

Would you do it? Yea or nay.

If you saved that much working then it's a no-brainer....keep working until you reach 1 million USD. Then you have the luxury of very safe investments with almost no risk and you'll have plenty to last the rest of your life. Also you'll be more mature and can handle what Thailand throws at you. In the meantime just vacation here or look at other spots......Costa Rica comes to mind.

[cclub75]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

And what about income tax (in Canada) ?

And why you get for granted the future yield based on the past performances of thoses funds ? I've checked THY. Well last year they paid 15 cents per month...

And what it will be next year ?

Edited September 7, 2006 by cclub75

[sleepyjohn]

So now we are at B8,231,046 or about US$211,000.

Go get health insurance!

Thanx to the those of you who gave health costs!

Well Roamin I'm really sorry for your problem and hope you are doing OK there and wish you all the best.

You are right....8 or 10 million would be a lump that would change things a lot. In fact it would seem to be not coverable by the 27,000 baht premium that was kindly mentioned. My very rough guess is it would not require ten times the premium for getting a million, because a ten million event is not equally likely to happen, but maybe say three times as much? Say best part of 100,000 baht premium? Any input on that?

Two things come to mind.

In the event of something major I personally could go back to the UK and get treated for free, thereby getting back some of the huge amount of purchase tax I paid for booze fags and petrol whilst getting nothing back for decades. I actually believe they are stopping/have stopped this, but my experience of the National Health is they just want everyone to get treated. Any input here?

I'd also ask Roamin if you would have perhaps shopped around a bit for better value treatment than the Bumrungrad if you hadn't been insured. I can't imagine it being anything like that here in CM. What is the expensive bit, is it because the drugs are coming from the US? That seems a huge amount for medication.

In any case again all the best.

I am not proposing this, but just pondering whether it might be worthwhile to, well, take a chance if the alternative is not making ends meet to do what one would like. I think death's overrated. Having said that the times I have faced it I thought somewhat differently.

[Napolean_Complex]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

And what about income tax (in Canada) ?

And why you get for granted the future yield based on the past performances of thoses funds ? I've checked THY. Well last year they paid 15 cents per month...

And what it will be next year ?

There is no tax for a non-resident of canada. (assuming I went that route) But if I did then the extra 30KTHB/month that I havent saved for re-investment will go towards that. Regarding Thy, ive already said that all my estimates are based on 6cents/share rather than the 15 cents pershare that thunder offers. I agree, its to risky for me.

[Napolean_Complex]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

So 440,000CAD should pay (assuming all in BMO's income trust fund) should pay 2640 CAD/month and conterting to THB(34THB/1CAD) should mean 89760/month. Of course I dont account for inflation here at all, But im not eating into my capital, this one is low risk, 15 year history with steady returns, and I only plan on taking 60,000THB of this per month so Ill be saving around 30KTHB every month so I can keep up with the inflation and everything.

Of coure I still plan on diversifying my money, im just using this for an example.

I have built a house already, have bought a motorbike, and still plan on working teaching the kiddies english if I can.

I'll go against the grain here a little with a suggestion. From the above post it sounds as if you've spent time in Thailand, so no comments on a trial run, I'll assume you know it here.

BUT, at your age lots can change, and a number of years relaxing in Thailand (or teaching english) doesn't help the old resume. IF you ever decide to go back, for whatever reason, you will probably starting from ground zero, at a older age and may never 'catch up'.

So the retention of your principal, to me, would be essential.

Give it a shot, spend only the earnings( or less), and enjoy it. Retirement is wasted on the old

Yea. Against the grain. Thats what im all about. I figure if I screw it up now, then I can come back when im older and will still be relatively appealing as, hopefully, im not past that unappealing to hire point.

[bmanly]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

So 440,000CAD should pay (assuming all in BMO's income trust fund) should pay 2640 CAD/month and conterting to THB(34THB/1CAD) should mean 89760/month. Of course I dont account for inflation here at all, But im not eating into my capital, this one is low risk, 15 year history with steady returns, and I only plan on taking 60,000THB of this per month so Ill be saving around 30KTHB every month so I can keep up with the inflation and everything.

Of coure I still plan on diversifying my money, im just using this for an example.

I have built a house already, have bought a motorbike, and still plan on working teaching the kiddies english if I can.

This extra information you have given us has shed new light on your question. This income fund you are talking about returns you 7% PA, is this going to continue for the future? What happens if the market corrects and or interest rates go down, will this fund still give you 6c a share dividend (7% PA)?

The other question is where is your house? In Thailand or Canada? With the extra info you have provided it is looking quite do able.

[Roamin]

So now we are at B8,231,046 or about US$211,000.

Go get health insurance!

Thanx to the those of you who gave health costs!

Well Roamin I'm really sorry for your problem and hope you are doing OK there and wish you all the best.

You are right....8 or 10 million would be a lump that would change things a lot. In fact it would seem to be not coverable by the 27,000 baht premium that was kindly mentioned. My very rough guess is it would not require ten times the premium for getting a million, because a ten million event is not equally likely to happen, but maybe say three times as much? Say best part of 100,000 baht premium? Any input on that?

Two things come to mind.

In the event of something major I personally could go back to the UK and get treated for free, thereby getting back some of the huge amount of purchase tax I paid for booze fags and petrol whilst getting nothing back for decades. I actually believe they are stopping/have stopped this, but my experience of the National Health is they just want everyone to get treated. Any input here?

I'd also ask Roamin if you would have perhaps shopped around a bit for better value treatment than the Bumrungrad if you hadn't been insured. I can't imagine it being anything like that here in CM. What is the expensive bit, is it because the drugs are coming from the US? That seems a huge amount for medication.

In any case again all the best.

I am not proposing this, but just pondering whether it might be worthwhile to, well, take a chance if the alternative is not making ends meet to do what one would like. I think death's overrated. Having said that the times I have faced it I thought somewhat differently.

Let's start a new thread on this to see what input we get

[Gary A]

I take monthly dividends from my five ETF closed end funds. The dividends are direct deposited into my US checking account. I started doing this in March when I chickened out of the stock market. 2005 was the best year in the stock market that I ever had so I took my money off the table and ran. I have a healthy surplus every month so I have been buying bank CD's. They only get 5.5 percent but that's fine with me. I live exactly the way I want to live and my net worth continues to go up. I LIKE being comfortable. That said, I do have health concerns. Even at this point that could certainly ruin me. My Thai health insurance pays 1,250,000 baht per occurrence and I doubt that would be enough for extended cancer treatment. I don't think anyone can afford to be without health insurance.

[Napolean_Complex]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

So 440,000CAD should pay (assuming all in BMO's income trust fund) should pay 2640 CAD/month and conterting to THB(34THB/1CAD) should mean 89760/month. Of course I dont account for inflation here at all, But im not eating into my capital, this one is low risk, 15 year history with steady returns, and I only plan on taking 60,000THB of this per month so Ill be saving around 30KTHB every month so I can keep up with the inflation and everything.

Of coure I still plan on diversifying my money, im just using this for an example.

I have built a house already, have bought a motorbike, and still plan on working teaching the kiddies english if I can.

This extra information you have given us has shed new light on your question. This income fund you are talking about returns you 7% PA, is this going to continue for the future? What happens if the market corrects and or interest rates go down, will this fund still give you 6c a share dividend (7% PA)?

The other question is where is your house? In Thailand or Canada? With the extra info you have provided it is looking quite do able.

Yes, according to my research, this fund will still pay 6cents/share. It never boomed with the tech boom, never boomed with the oil boom. Its steady, which is exactly what im looking for. So on the flip side wont fall either.

I have built a house in thailand already. Its only 600K thb, but its cosy. Also its only for now. I dont mind renting at all, I dont think that ill buy another. (this one is for the wife's parents). Im not looking to make a commitment to thailand at all with regards to investments.

[BlackJack]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

So 440,000CAD should pay (assuming all in BMO's income trust fund) should pay 2640 CAD/month and conterting to THB(34THB/1CAD) should mean 89760/month. Of course I dont account for inflation here at all, But im not eating into my capital, this one is low risk, 15 year history with steady returns, and I only plan on taking 60,000THB of this per month so Ill be saving around 30KTHB every month so I can keep up with the inflation and everything.

Of coure I still plan on diversifying my money, im just using this for an example.

I have built a house already, have bought a motorbike, and still plan on working teaching the kiddies english if I can.

This extra information you have given us has shed new light on your question. This income fund you are talking about returns you 7% PA, is this going to continue for the future? What happens if the market corrects and or interest rates go down, will this fund still give you 6c a share dividend (7% PA)?

The other question is where is your house? In Thailand or Canada? With the extra info you have provided it is looking quite do able.

Yes, according to my research, this fund will still pay 6cents/share. It never boomed with the tech boom, never boomed with the oil boom. Its steady, which is exactly what im looking for. So on the flip side wont fall either.

I have built a house in thailand already. Its only 600K thb, but its cosy. Also its only for now. I dont mind renting at all, I dont think that ill buy another. (this one is for the wife's parents). Im not looking to make a commitment to thailand at all with regards to investments.

buy an apartment in a good area in BKK and get a good rental return - i get 9%

plus appreciating asset

[Firefan]

The fund does not sound too bad from the limited info you give, but what is the break down (stocks/bonds/reits/dividend payers Etc.)? That will give you an idea about risk level - especially stock/bond split.

I like the idea of just keeping investments abroad, earning 30k/mth extra by being non-resident and just taking the money in you need.

Cheers!

[bmanly]

Based on the info you gave us Napolean_Complex I think you have enough. As long as that Mutual Fund keeps returning that amount and you reinvest the 30K per Month surplus then you will have enough. Health insurance at your age in Thailand is cheap, just get some of that then increase it as you get older. There is one thing some expats forget, Australia, Britain and Canada have a National Health System. You can go back home should you get seriously ill and get free treatment, that is my back stop too. In the case of Australia you do lose it if you are out the country for 5 years or more. Go ahead and retire, you will enjoy it, cheers.

[Tammi]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

And what about income tax (in Canada) ?

And why you get for granted the future yield based on the past performances of thoses funds ? I've checked THY. Well last year they paid 15 cents per month...

And what it will be next year ?

There is no tax for a non-resident of canada. (assuming I went that route) But if I did then the extra 30KTHB/month that I havent saved for re-investment will go towards that. Regarding Thy, ive already said that all my estimates are based on 6cents/share rather than the 15 cents pershare that thunder offers. I agree, its to risky for me.

I am non-resident of Canada. How come I pay 25% withholding tax?

[cclub75]

I am non-resident of Canada. How come I pay 25% withholding tax?

Maybe it's because you are from Quebec.

I'm a little bit skeptical too.

I France for instance, a non resident must pay taxes on all the revenus that he's getting in France (dividends, interests, rental income etc.)

From what I know, Canada is not a "off shore" place...

In Singapore, however, they don't tax interests income (great for time deposits for instance).

[Napolean_Complex]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

And what about income tax (in Canada) ?

And why you get for granted the future yield based on the past performances of thoses funds ? I've checked THY. Well last year they paid 15 cents per month...

And what it will be next year ?

There is no tax for a non-resident of canada. (assuming I went that route) But if I did then the extra 30KTHB/month that I havent saved for re-investment will go towards that. Regarding Thy, ive already said that all my estimates are based on 6cents/share rather than the 15 cents pershare that thunder offers. I agree, its to risky for me.

I am non-resident of Canada. How come I pay 25% withholding tax?

Im not sure what to tell you I found a link saying that it might be able to only charge 5% on mutual funds. Its tough to decipher. here is the link, its page 8.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4061/t4061-05e.pdf

You are right according to CCRA. Can you tell me have you ever thought on going around this like like cclub75 has mentioned? WHats the point of becoming a non-resident of canada then.

I just called CCRA he directed me towards this website. Im told that if you are in thailand then you should only be paying 15% tax, and if you look further into the treaty and it differs from this form than the treaty takes precidence.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/ic76-12r5/ic76-12r5-e.pdf

[sleepyjohn]

I sent an enquiry to Canada last year. Here's the reply:

Hello john ,

Thank you for submitting your expatriate tax question.

Interest and dividends earned would be subject to tax withholding at source at 15%. Capital gains allocated from the funds should be tax-free. No tax returns will need to be filed.

If you require further assistance, please contact us. Thank you for using our service.

Sincerely,

Peter J. Simpson, CA

403-531-2200

So the Canadian government wanted my money for doing nothing for me personally in return (they already got company taxes) and lost my investment. I believe Australia does the same....10%?

Edited September 8, 2006 by sleepyjohn

[cclub75]

So the Canadian government wanted my money for doing nothing for me personally in return (they already got company taxes) and lost my investment. I believe Australia does the same....10%?

Welcome to the western-socialist world.

Better to go to Singapore : since 2005, they don't have tax on interests anymore.

Perfect for time deposits.

http://www.dbs.com/sg/personal/deposit/additionalinfo/tax/

[wamberal]

I sent an enquiry to Canada last year. Here's the reply:

Hello john ,

Thank you for submitting your expatriate tax question.

Interest and dividends earned would be subject to tax withholding at source at 15%. Capital gains allocated from the funds should be tax-free. No tax returns will need to be filed.

If you require further assistance, please contact us. Thank you for using our service.

Sincerely,

Peter J. Simpson, CA

403-531-2200

So the Canadian government wanted my money for doing nothing for me personally in return (they already got company taxes) and lost my investment. I believe Australia does the same....10%?

Non-residents pay no tax on income from Australian companies who have paid sufficient companies tax. There are managed funds which specialise in this sort of income.

Other income is taxed 10% at source for non-residents.

[cclub75]

Non-residents pay no tax on income from Australian companies who have paid sufficient companies tax. There are managed funds which specialise in this sort of income.

Very interesting. Could you give us some links on the web regarding thoses special managed funds ?

Thanx.

[cclub75]

Slightly off topic : such thread looks very popular. Is it a surprise for you ?

At the end of the road : living without "working" looks like the Holy Graal for lot of people.

Anyway, it is for me

[BlackJack]

Non-residents pay no tax on income from Australian companies who have paid sufficient companies tax. There are managed funds which specialise in this sort of income.

Very interesting. Could you give us some links on the web regarding thoses special managed funds ?

Thanx.

Hello these are what we call franked dividends and not all companies have it

you have partially franked or fully franked meaning tax is already paid or partially paid

have a look at www.commsec.com.au

you can see what sort of an investor profile you have as well as check out the funds that have performed for te past 5 years plus

[Tammi]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

And what about income tax (in Canada) ?

And why you get for granted the future yield based on the past performances of thoses funds ? I've checked THY. Well last year they paid 15 cents per month...

And what it will be next year ?

There is no tax for a non-resident of canada. (assuming I went that route) But if I did then the extra 30KTHB/month that I havent saved for re-investment will go towards that. Regarding Thy, ive already said that all my estimates are based on 6cents/share rather than the 15 cents pershare that thunder offers. I agree, its to risky for me.

I am non-resident of Canada. How come I pay 25% withholding tax?

Im not sure what to tell you I found a link saying that it might be able to only charge 5% on mutual funds. Its tough to decipher. here is the link, its page 8.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4061/t4061-05e.pdf

You are right according to CCRA. Can you tell me have you ever thought on going around this like like cclub75 has mentioned? WHats the point of becoming a non-resident of canada then.

I just called CCRA he directed me towards this website. Im told that if you are in thailand then you should only be paying 15% tax, and if you look further into the treaty and it differs from this form than the treaty takes precidence.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/ic76-12r5/ic76-12r5-e.pdf

I am paying 25% withholding tax on CPP and LIRA which is fair enough as it wasn't taxed when I was contributing.

I am absolutely sure that Canadians will tax any and all investments but perhaps at different levels depending on what is being invested in. I took everything out of Canada.

Point in leaving Canada is to get away from over 50% income tax and the zillion other taxes Canada has. And the rain, and the snow, and looking out your window and not seeing a living soul - they are either watching TV or in a car. Here is much more fun.

Advice: 1) Try to keep a bank account in Canada to have your CPP paid into and avoid the hassle of having a check sent to Thailand and maybe lost in mail.

2) Get good health insurance.

[Napolean_Complex]

Well I was looking at a monthly income fund offered through the BMO (Bank of montreal). Basically 10$/share pays out 6 cents. So every 50,000CAD will pay around 300/month. Also that is one of the cheaper income trusts that is offered. There are others that pay around 12 cents per share. For example Thy.un (thunder energy trust) fund, or pure energy. Those ones havent been around for 15 years like BMO's income trust fund, so I dont have as much faith in there performance over the long term. But I still plan on putting money into them because 50,000CAD should be 600CAD per month.

And what about income tax (in Canada) ?

And why you get for granted the future yield based on the past performances of thoses funds ? I've checked THY. Well last year they paid 15 cents per month...

And what it will be next year ?

There is no tax for a non-resident of canada. (assuming I went that route) But if I did then the extra 30KTHB/month that I havent saved for re-investment will go towards that. Regarding Thy, ive already said that all my estimates are based on 6cents/share rather than the 15 cents pershare that thunder offers. I agree, its to risky for me.

I am non-resident of Canada. How come I pay 25% withholding tax?

Im not sure what to tell you I found a link saying that it might be able to only charge 5% on mutual funds. Its tough to decipher. here is the link, its page 8.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4061/t4061-05e.pdf

You are right according to CCRA. Can you tell me have you ever thought on going around this like like cclub75 has mentioned? WHats the point of becoming a non-resident of canada then.

I just called CCRA he directed me towards this website. Im told that if you are in thailand then you should only be paying 15% tax, and if you look further into the treaty and it differs from this form than the treaty takes precidence.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/ic76-12r5/ic76-12r5-e.pdf

I am paying 25% withholding tax on CPP and LIRA which is fair enough as it wasn't taxed when I was contributing.

I am absolutely sure that Canadians will tax any and all investments but perhaps at different levels depending on what is being invested in. I took everything out of Canada.

Point in leaving Canada is to get away from over 50% income tax and the zillion other taxes Canada has. And the rain, and the snow, and looking out your window and not seeing a living soul - they are either watching TV or in a car. Here is much more fun.

Advice: 1) Try to keep a bank account in Canada to have your CPP paid into and avoid the hassle of having a check sent to Thailand and maybe lost in mail.

2) Get good health insurance.

I appreciate you sharing your situation with me. I made no plans what so ever for the money that I have in RRSP's and CPP and my company pension. I just figured that im too young to retire without huge penalties so I figure I would have got next to nothing. This money wasnt included in my original calculations.

When I said whats the point of being a non-resident, I was more-so talking about the non-resident status according to the goverment. Not so much where I am. I was told that there was some sort of benefit to this (non-resident status), less tax, as one is not using the services that the goverment provides, and so should be paying no (or little) tax. That was what I was told, and im gonna grill someone here shortly about it.

But besides from that, when you took all your money from canada, did you have to pay a 25% lump sum fee to do so or what? Or are you only talking about money that is in LIRA, RRSP's CPP and such? Retirement stuff?