Drunk Driving Crackdown In Force

[femi fan]

The bloody doctors kill more people than drink drivers. It's all part of life. If we don't like the outcomes of booze drinking, then get rid of booze. But as is totally normal for western ways, treat the symptoms, and ignore the root causes... if you want booze, then accept them driving home. How else can they get home??

I was kind of hoping that thailand would retain its own ways in life. But no, we are being assaulted by the western ways. Oh dear.

Huh? Just curious, can you defend that statement? Using credible, verifiable evidence?

Yes i can defend my comments. As to the credibility, that's up to you and how open or closed your mind is. My answer to you is also to robblok. Try this one link, i'm not going to do any more work on this for you. If you are minded to accept that i, and the link, can be correct, then i'm sure you'll be motivated to do your own research. Not long ago i went to a meeting, and my information that prescribed drugs in america are the fourth leading killer of people was challenged by an american who said this was now the leading cause of death in the states. Either way, our wonderful western approach to 'health' care is, in the main, a disaster.

Just to give you a bit more info on where my comments came from: i've done hundreds and hundreds of hours of research into food, medicine, and health in the last four years. The doctors could not sort out my bad back, so i went to the books and the net, and did it myself. I urge you to open your mind to what i said about the doctors, but if not, then hey, no worries, life goes on!

http://www.cancure.org/medical_errors.htm

Edited October 20, 2012 by femi fan

[femi fan]

I was referring to ALL your previous posts on this matter, this thread & another. I'm much more concerned about the appalling standard of driving by sober drivers in Thailand, especially in daylight hours when I drive my kids to school. The Bib need to focus on this, catching the freaking idiots weaving in & out of traffic to gain a few car lengths, the red light jumpers, the speed freaks, the pillocks that pull out without looking, the corner cutters etc etc. The list goes on & on & on & on, pretty much like you on the had a few drinks drivers. You're like a stuck record. Comprendez?

Absolutely spot on mate! It's much safer driving around at 10pm than 10am.

[femi fan]

I was not going to post anymore but if someone post something so stupid as femi did then its hard not to respond.

A gem of wisdom.. doctors kill more people then drink drivers. First off doctors are there to save people and in doing so they sometimes make a mistake. I am pretty sure that more people would be dead if doctors did nothing. How can anyone with half an IQ make such a remark.

Come on guys try to defend that remark, id love to see you guys try. Im not going into drunk driving the morality im now just focusing on this stupid remark.

Well, i made a short defence in my post just now. You have called my comment 'stupidity', and i can understand why you might think that. But that does not make you correct, in fact you're wrong. It's anything but stupid, rather it is a fact that's been very well documented in america, home and model of western medicine and 'health' care.

I don't blame the doctors, but i do blame their training, which has largely been underwritten by the pharmaceutical industry. And there's more money in that industry than any other apart from banks.

[femi fan]

You must be a hell of a comforter to the Thai families that will grieve enmasse at Songkran. I think the families would rather suffer this western way being inmported than the imeasurable grief of losing a loved one to drink driving at Songkran or indeed any other time.

Do you really think this game is going to reduce casualties?? They try new things every year, yet the numbers killed on thai roads, especially at new year and at songkran, keep rising. The reason is as me smith mentioned: appalling general driving standards by people who've been nowhere near any drinks.

Educate the drivers, but no massive western regulations please in this country. Nanny and fascist states are the western way these days. Luckily i think thai culture will be pretty resistant on the whole, but unfortunately the politicians who make all these decisions were educated in the likes of the US or UK, and think those countries are a model for being civilised and devoloped. Oh, such myopia.

Life in thailand (the traditional and buddhist way) is based only on now and on today. So enjoy the now and the today and leave it at that.

[robblok]

I was not going to post anymore but if someone post something so stupid as femi did then its hard not to respond.

A gem of wisdom.. doctors kill more people then drink drivers. First off doctors are there to save people and in doing so they sometimes make a mistake. I am pretty sure that more people would be dead if doctors did nothing. How can anyone with half an IQ make such a remark.

Come on guys try to defend that remark, id love to see you guys try. Im not going into drunk driving the morality im now just focusing on this stupid remark.

Well, i made a short defence in my post just now. You have called my comment 'stupidity', and i can understand why you might think that. But that does not make you correct, in fact you're wrong. It's anything but stupid, rather it is a fact that's been very well documented in america, home and model of western medicine and 'health' care.

I don't blame the doctors, but i do blame their training, which has largely been underwritten by the pharmaceutical industry. And there's more money in that industry than any other apart from banks.

I will make a few comments and then that is it.

You cannot compare the two for various reasons.

People do die in hospitals because infections, but they might have died if they did not go to the hospital. People do die on the operating table but they might have died too if they were not operated on.

I can garantee you that more people die if there were no doctors, people seeing doctors are generally in ill health its only normal that some will die.

Then you compare it with drunk drivers.. people who don't try to help or cure anything but just as a result of being drunk kill. Its plain crazy.

Anyway buy yourself a tinfoil hat.

[Konini]

i wander how long they keep it up everynight and be random.everyone has to be carefrul now if that is the case

That's what they did in Melbourne, either 1990 or 1991. I was breathalysed three times one day - once on my way to work at 5.30am and twice on my way home after 7pm. And I'll never forget the day they brought out the booze bus - a converted big truck turned into a lab and blocked the Westgate Bridge - 4 lane major arterial road out of the city (of 3-4 million people) DURING RUSH HOUR. Nobody believed they would do anything like that. We didn't know which of the 4 lanes we would be diverted to. 3 lanes had about 20 police officers lined up and spread out (in what I have to admit was a very organised system) breathalysing every car or get waved through the empty 4th lane. Nobody believed they'd block off the 5 lane South Eastern freeway a week later either. Sometimes, everybody, sometimes every 2nd or 3rd or 5th car - pot luck, For the first 6 months loads of people got caught. Number are down significantly now - nobody knows where or when it's going to turn up. The advent of mobile phones led people to phoning their mates to warn of a booze bus on a freeway or highway - every single person who took an exit before the block was breathalysed. Massive inconvenience at the time, but it has to be said that it certainly worked. A lot of people I know who would have taken a chance now won't. Most people can't afford to lose their licence, which is automatic, so there are a lot less people driving around Melbourne after having a drink. Now all police vehicles are nominated booze buses, and if you get stopped for anything - and I really mean anything - my number plate had faded in the sun you are breathalysed. The policeman introduced himself, asked if I had been drinking and breathalysed me before telling me the reason he'd pulled me over, and gave me 28 days to get new plates.

BEGIN RANT:In Victoria prisoners make licence plates, and there was a bad batch between 1989 and 1991 which were prone to fading. Problem acknowledged and no charge for new plates. They didn't tell you though that if you wanted to keep the same rego number you had to pay $50, which was the same cost as getting a new plate for the bike rack so it matched my new plates. END RANT

Either drink or drive. It isn't hard.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Konini

[heybruce]

The bloody doctors kill more people than drink drivers. It's all part of life. If we don't like the outcomes of booze drinking, then get rid of booze. But as is totally normal for western ways, treat the symptoms, and ignore the root causes... if you want booze, then accept them driving home. How else can they get home??

I was kind of hoping that thailand would retain its own ways in life. But no, we are being assaulted by the western ways. Oh dear.

Huh? Just curious, can you defend that statement? Using credible, verifiable evidence?

Yes i can defend my comments. As to the credibility, that's up to you and how open or closed your mind is. My answer to you is also to robblok. Try this one link, i'm not going to do any more work on this for you. If you are minded to accept that i, and the link, can be correct, then i'm sure you'll be motivated to do your own research. Not long ago i went to a meeting, and my information that prescribed drugs in america are the fourth leading killer of people was challenged by an american who said this was now the leading cause of death in the states. Either way, our wonderful western approach to 'health' care is, in the main, a disaster.

Just to give you a bit more info on where my comments came from: i've done hundreds and hundreds of hours of research into food, medicine, and health in the last four years. The doctors could not sort out my bad back, so i went to the books and the net, and did it myself. I urge you to open your mind to what i said about the doctors, but if not, then hey, no worries, life goes on!

http://www.cancure.o...ical_errors.htm

Sorry, I'm not convinced. For starters there is a difference "medical errors may be the third leading cause of death in the United States" and your statement that "bloody doctors kill more people than drink drivers". The study talks about errors and infections in hospitals, which are places where sick or injured people go to get better or die. Doctors and medical science aren't perfect, and no doubt in hind sight, after the autopsies, numerous examples are found in which alternative treatments might have prolonged life, but this isn't the same as a drunk driver smashing a healthy human to pieces.

The article briefly discusses infections in hospitals, which may be caused by doctors, nurses, visitors, janitors, or administrators that don't hire sufficient janitors. It states that "pharmaceutical drugs kill more people every year than are killed in traffic accidents" but again lacks details. I suspect, but don't have enough information to prove, that the majority of these deaths are very old or very sick people taking a bewildering variety of drugs for their conditions. These are people who might have died much sooner without these drugs.

Without more information on how the authors allocated blame for the deaths the study is interesting but not definitive. For example, years ago my 83 year old grandmother was rushed to the hospital after her heart stopped. The doctors revived and stabilized her, then told her she had a bad heart valve that would probably kill her within the year if she didn't have surgery to replace it. They also told her that the surgery was extremely risky for a person her age and she might not survive. The surgery was optional because she had a choice. She chose to have the surgery and died on the operating table. Would the study authors call this unnecessary surgery and count it towards their statistics? Would this study have taken into account the fact that my grandmother would have died days earlier without the help of the doctors and the hospital?

I have no doubt that doctors make mistakes, and for this and other reasons I only go to a doctor for help if I think I have a condition that I can't treat myself or that won't get better on its own. However I believe the majority of the mistakes made by doctors are not the results of incompetence but due to limitations on medical science.

Perhaps I can best summarize with a question: If you are run over by a drunk driver, would you rather have your battered and bleeding body be taken to a library so you can research self treatment options, or to a hospital where some of these bloody doctors can go to work on you?

[funcat]

Problem is,that drunk driving is actually allowed.The authorities tell you that you can drink and drive,by setting the limit.If it is 0.05%,or 0.08% it does not matter,one is allowed to consume alcohol and drive afterwards...

That may work in some very civilized societies,if they exist,but most of the common folks will not know what the 0.05% means in comparison to actual amount of alcohol....of course there is an internet and you can find some tables and guidelines,but this is still a very grey area.

If you want people to not drink and drive,the limit should be 0.00...Zero Tolerance !!....but of course,one can drink an apple juice,or have some cough medicine and get in trouble,right?

...it's not the amount of drinks that can get you in trouble...it's the First One!

Edited October 20, 2012 by funcat

[robblok]

Charlem his famous cough medicine

[femi fan]

Perhaps I can best summarize with a question: If you are run over by a drunk driver, would you rather have your battered and bleeding body be taken to a library so you can research self treatment options, or to a hospital where some of these bloody doctors can go to work on you?

I live in thailand, a buddhist country, not any more in a clinical regulated nanny state from the west. I shall take my karma as it happens. However, i think it unlikely that the crew who might pick up my battered and bleeding body would take me to a library. I could be lucky, but you never know.

My turn for some questions: how many people accidentally get killed by drunk drivers?

How many people get killed by drivers who have had about two drinks, but which puts them over the limit according to the test?

How many people get killed by poor driving habits, especially by those driving way too fast, yet have drunk no alcohol?

Questions are only for the situation in thailand.

You see there are many ways to die. I'm more likely to die from being hit by a drunk driver in thailand than i am in england. I'm more likely to be battered by a driver in england who's succumbed to road rage, and i'm much more likely to die from being randomly battered by a person on the streets of britain than here in thailand.

Most debates on drunk driving are emotional and divorced from the full context. Many of those arguing against drink driving of all forms have never done it, so they're not talking from experience. If they have done it, then they're hypocrites of course.

I actually chose to live in thailand, and one outcome of this is accepting their ways. From my vantage point in life watching the westernisation of thailand is a horror show.

[femi fan]

That's what they did in Melbourne, either 1990 or 1991. I was breathalysed three times one day - once on my way to work at 5.30am and twice on my way home after 7pm. And I'll never forget the day they brought out the booze bus - a converted big truck turned into a lab and blocked the Westgate Bridge - 4 lane major arterial road out of the city (of 3-4 million people) DURING RUSH HOUR. Nobody believed they would do anything like that.

Either drink or drive. It isn't hard.

Ahh, the ultra-regulated australian approach to life on the roads. I fervently hope thailand manages to avoid the same fate that australia has suffered from in terms of the massive amount of regulation that suffocates life over there. And I'm afraid it's easy to believe anything that australian police do.

And you're indulging in more theory to add to that already on this thread: if it was that easy to not drink and drive, then folk would not do it. Clearly there's a need do drink and drive because so many people do it.

[mamborobert]

That's what they did in Melbourne, either 1990 or 1991. I was breathalysed three times one day - once on my way to work at 5.30am and twice on my way home after 7pm. And I'll never forget the day they brought out the booze bus - a converted big truck turned into a lab and blocked the Westgate Bridge - 4 lane major arterial road out of the city (of 3-4 million people) DURING RUSH HOUR. Nobody believed they would do anything like that.

Either drink or drive. It isn't hard.

Ahh, the ultra-regulated australian approach to life on the roads. I fervently hope thailand manages to avoid the same fate that australia has suffered from in terms of the massive amount of regulation that suffocates life over there. And I'm afraid it's easy to believe anything that australian police do.

And you're indulging in more theory to add to that already on this thread: if it was that easy to not drink and drive, then folk would not do it. Clearly there's a need do drink and drive because so many people do it.

The Australian system has dramatically cut the road toll in both serious injuries and loss of life (particularly in the holiday periods something that Songkran badly needs as well).

The toll has reduced everywhere despite more cars and more drivers being on the roads.

You suggest that there is clearly "a need to drink and drive because so many people do it".

Why not complete the sentence there are multiple choices to make it easier for you.

There is clearly a need to drink and drive and......

a.) kill or maim yourself

b.) kill or maim an innocent party

c.) leave behind a grieving family

d.) end up a paraplegic or quadraplegic

e.) demonstrate that I cannot control myself

f.) act like a child and not accept responsibility for my actions

g.) ignore what world wide evidence on reducing road fatalities has done

h.) demonstrate my total embrace of Thai culture as I come back to a next life

i.) be a sheep

because so many people do it.

Edited October 20, 2012 by mamborobert

[heybruce]

My turn for some questions: how many people accidentally get killed by drunk drivers?

How many people get killed by drivers who have had about two drinks, but which puts them over the limit according to the test?

How many people get killed by poor driving habits, especially by those driving way too fast, yet have drunk no alcohol?

Questions are only for the situation in thailand.

I don't know where to find reliable answers to these questions, or if the necessary information has been collected. Can you answer comparable questions about deaths due to medical error in Thailand?

Most debates on drunk driving are emotional and divorced from the full context. Many of those arguing against drink driving of all forms have never done it, so they're not talking from experience. If they have done it, then they're hypocrites of course.

Are you saying if a person has never driven drunk they're not qualified to argue against drunk driving, and if they have driven drunk they aren't allowed to argue against drunk driving?

I actually chose to live in thailand, and one outcome of this is accepting their ways. From my vantage point in life watching the westernisation of thailand is a horror show.

The Thai people are adopting those aspects of Western life that they like. That is a natural consequence of cultures interacting. The only way to prevent it is to completely isolate Thailand for the west. That means all us westerners will have to leave. Whether this change is good or bad is a matter of perspective, but if you came to Thailand assuming nothing would ever change you were being unrealistic.

[Semper]

@ robblok

I won't make any more comments

Last post here

I will make a few comments and then that is it.

Bad memory?

[robblok]

@ robblok

I won't make any more comments

Last post here

I will make a few comments and then that is it.

Bad memory?

Had that one comming semper. But it did not really go into drunk driving anymore. More into some crazy statements from a tinfoil hat site.

[Semper]

Yes, it was a joke. I've had a boring day.

[MESmith]

@ robblok

I won't make any more comments

Last post here

I will make a few comments and then that is it.

Bad memory?

Just use the "ignore" function. Works for me. Anyone who doubts my word gets blo©ked

Edited October 20, 2012 by MESmith

[naboo]

Just use the "ignore" function. Works for me. Anyone who doubts my word gets blo©ked

No they don't.

[femi fan]

My turn for some questions: how many people accidentally get killed by drunk drivers?

How many people get killed by drivers who have had about two drinks, but which puts them over the limit according to the test?

How many people get killed by poor driving habits, especially by those driving way too fast, yet have drunk no alcohol?

Questions are only for the situation in thailand.

I don't know where to find reliable answers to these questions, or if the necessary information has been collected. Can you answer comparable questions about deaths due to medical error in Thailand?

Most debates on drunk driving are emotional and divorced from the full context. Many of those arguing against drink driving of all forms have never done it, so they're not talking from experience. If they have done it, then they're hypocrites of course.

Are you saying if a person has never driven drunk they're not qualified to argue against drunk driving, and if they have driven drunk they aren't allowed to argue against drunk driving?

I actually chose to live in thailand, and one outcome of this is accepting their ways. From my vantage point in life watching the westernisation of thailand is a horror show.

The Thai people are adopting those aspects of Western life that they like. That is a natural consequence of cultures interacting. The only way to prevent it is to completely isolate Thailand for the west. That means all us westerners will have to leave. Whether this change is good or bad is a matter of perspective, but if you came to Thailand assuming nothing would ever change you were being unrealistic.

I answered your question!

I was talking about people commenting on drink driving, not drunk driving. People argue against both without differentiating between the two. I personally think drunk driving is asking for trouble. I also think that driving after two or three beers or wines does not necessarily make a person a dangerous driver. I think drivers who are stone cold sober that driver very fast and inches from my back bumper are far far far more dangerous than i am with two beers inside me. The western rules as applied to thailand are likely to punish me quite badly with two beers in me while letting these speeding maniacs continue their death-causing ways.

The thai people are very very reluctantly being forced into wearing helmets, and many who do so never bother to do up the strap, just have it on to avoid the fine. Politicians, policemen, army people, and all citizens across the board in thailand are prone to driving home after drinking because it's what they've always done. I don't think they will 'like' this new western way invading their land at all. It is actually most inconvenient to them. Thai culture is predicated on making life as easy as possible. In britain for example, the culture is of rules and regulations and the law.

The only interaction of cultures here is the media writers and politicians who have been educated in a foreign western culture bringing in what they've seen in those countries. The average citizen in thailand won't want anything to do with tightening up on the laws being discussed on this thread.

LIfe evolves, change is certain. I don't like some of the changes, i do like others. For many the attraction of living in thailand is that the thais live according to different principles in life, and many of us like those principles. The ones we don't like we put up wihth.

[MESmith]

Just use the "ignore" function. Works for me. Anyone who doubts my word gets blo©ked

No they don't.

Then you've been added

I just hate these "crackdowns" that are so popular in Thailand. Do some proper policing. Go out on patrol & stop the idiots you see. I guess the BiB don't even notice a traffic violation when it's right in front of them. How many times do you see them leaving a M/C helmet crackdown checkpoint, on their M/C without a helmet......

Edited October 20, 2012 by MESmith

[femi fan]

I just hate these "crackdowns" that are so popular in Thailand. Do some proper policing. Go out on patrol & stop the idiots you see. I guess the BiB don't even notice a traffic violation when it's right in front of them. How many times do you see them leaving a M/C helmet crackdown checkpoint, on their M/C without a helmet......

About four years ago i ended up teaching a class of policemen for a few weeks. At the end of the course off we all went to a place on the outer ring road for a late lunch at a nice restaurant. I wanted to restrict myself to a couple of beers, but in usual thai hospitality was not really allowed to leave without drinking more. Most if not all of them were all drinking too. At some point somebody paid up and we all left in our vehicles to go our separate ways.

It's in the culture, and thais across all segments of society see nothing wrong in drinking and then driving home. They don't want helmets - police and citizen alike - and they don't want to not be able to drive home after their dinners out.

All these crackdowns and enforcements are media-driven, and complied with by the politicians.

The big question is: which is the better way, an australian approach or a thai approach? Let the people police themselves, or let the police control people's lives? Yes, australian roads are safer, but freedom was never risk-free. As for british roads, cameras everywhere, with hefty speeding fines arriving on people's doorsteps without even having seen a policeman. It's so bad over there you have to spend more time looking at your speedo to make sure you don't inadvertently go slightly too fast, and that's taking one's eyes off the road...

[MESmith]

Has there been any media campaign to accompany this crackdown? Not just the posters at intersections last month. Have the locals been educated as to why they shouldn't drink & drive? Or what 0.05 blood alcohol actually means? Or is it just typical blitzkrieg approach? Wouldn't it be better to put a comprehensive public transport system in place first? Back in the UK at closing time there's the choice of buses & masses of taxis ready to take you home to the distant suburbs. Once you have a nice aircon car, there is no way you're gonna get in a songteaw or tuk tuk again. Personally, I prefer to stay home with my family, have a couple of sundowners on the terrace, then watch some quality, illegally downloaded tv with the kids. Cheers

[funcat]

Has there been any media campaign to accompany this crackdown? Not just the posters at intersections last month. Have the locals been educated as to why they shouldn't drink & drive? Or what 0.05 blood alcohol actually means? Or is it just typical blitzkrieg approach? Wouldn't it be better to put a comprehensive public transport system in place first? Back in the UK at closing time there's the choice of buses & masses of taxis ready to take you home to the distant suburbs. Once you have a nice aircon car, there is no way you're gonna get in a songteaw or tuk tuk again. Personally, I prefer to stay home with my family, have a couple of sundowners on the terrace, then watch some quality, illegally downloaded tv with the kids. Cheers

I just got back from 'The Toyota Motor Whatever.'..no police checks...but they were buying beer when the show was over...

[jackr]

I actually chose to live in thailand, and one outcome of this is accepting their ways. From my vantage point in life watching the westernisation of thailand is a horror show.

Amen to that, sir!

--

Have they got bored and given up yet, or are they still at it. Have they just been targetting the city/King Dong Road, or taking in the ring roads also?...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Have they got bored and given up yet, or are they still at it. Have they just been targetting the city/King Dong Road, or taking in the ring roads also?...

King Dong Road ?

Anyway they're still at it, but always at the same handful of locations.

[heybruce]

I actually chose to live in thailand, and one outcome of this is accepting their ways. From my vantage point in life watching the westernisation of thailand is a horror show.

The Thai people are adopting those aspects of Western life that they like. That is a natural consequence of cultures interacting. The only way to prevent it is to completely isolate Thailand for the west. That means all us westerners will have to leave. Whether this change is good or bad is a matter of perspective, but if you came to Thailand assuming nothing would ever change you were being unrealistic.

The only interaction of cultures here is the media writers and politicians who have been educated in a foreign western culture bringing in what they've seen in those countries. The average citizen in thailand won't want anything to do with tightening up on the laws being discussed on this thread.

Oh, so it's the western influences of free press and democracy (both somewhat flawed in Thailand, but let's not get into that) that are ruining Thailand. Shouldn't you also include television, movies, air travel, mobile phones, tourists, ex-pats, and the worse offender of all, the internet. What should we do about all these corrupting western influences?

I'll stand by my statement that when cultures interact it is natural for people to adopt those aspects of the foreign cultures that appeal to them. Cultures evolve, and I'm optimistic enough to believe the long term results are for the better. Most people would agree that this interaction has improved the food choices in London. And most of the young Thai's that I meet love sushi, K-Pop, and the prospect of someday traveling abroad, and they have little patience for gloomy old people who want everything to stay the same.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ I wish I could "Like" that post twice.

[jackr]

Have they got bored and given up yet, or are they still at it. Have they just been targetting the city/King Dong Road, or taking in the ring roads also?...

King Dong Road ?

Hang Dong Road, long, not unlike the dude with the appendage from the '80s.

^ I wish I could "Like" that post twice.

You can, just sign in with one of your other niks.

--

Nothing wrong with adopting said influences. It's the rules & regs that'll transform it for the worse... imagine a Thailand adhering to the ways of the West wholesale is what femi is getting at me thinks.

[heybruce]

Have they got bored and given up yet, or are they still at it. Have they just been targetting the city/King Dong Road, or taking in the ring roads also?...

King Dong Road ?

Hang Dong Road, long, not unlike the dude with the appendage from the '80s.

^ I wish I could "Like" that post twice.

You can, just sign in with one of your other niks.

--

Nothing wrong with adopting said influences. It's the rules & regs that'll transform it for the worse... imagine a Thailand adhering to the ways of the West wholesale is what femi is getting at me thinks.

Rules, regs, and their enforcement are what makes government work. Government is never perfect, but all over the world people who have experienced anarchy have demonstrated that they prefer any kind of government that will restore order. Once Thailand adopted western modes of transportation, motorized vehicles, they needed some rules and regs to prevent chaos on the roads. And since the west already had road rules developed after decades of often bloody experience, why shouldn't Thailand adopt these rules as a starting point, instead of starting from scratch?

I'm not too worried about Thailand adopting western culture wholesale. People still waai, take care of their parents, remain Buddhist and eat incredibly spicy food. The Thai people are adopting those elements of western culture, along with Japanese, Korean, and other cultures, that appeal to them. I don't agree with all of the elements they adopt, for example I don't approve of the abundance of high fat western fast food restaurants (but I don't approve of them in the west either) but I respect the right of the Thai people to choose. I also believe these things are by choice, I don't believe the west is forcing Thailand to crack down on drink driving or eat at MacDonald's.

[femi fan]

heybruce, i completely and totally disagree with you. So much so it's not worth me expanding, except i can't help but wonder if you would like thailand to adopt the extremely violent societies that america and britain have. Is that one of the aspects of their culture you'd like to come to thailand? Because you can't cherry pick when it comes to culture.