Animal Lover..? ................ Sometimes.

[thaibeachlovers]

OP - It's clear to see that you're upset about your brother-in-law (and I hope he makes a full recovery) but deliberately killing an animal because it doesn't have the intelligence to respond to the sound of your horn??? and, apparently, taking pleasure in it.

I hope you are trolling. If not, you really need to take a step back and think about what you are doing.

The op had problems with dogs before this post, its just an extra excuse for him. Just waiting for a dog to stand up and walk away does not take days of ones live. I can inmagine if he starts hitting dogs on purpouse in the village people wont like it. Especially the ones who have to take the bodies away. Or the people whos pets they are as often these dogs are at least taken care for a bit.

I'm ambivalent about this as I hate that Thais have "pet" dogs but let them roam all over 24/7 to attack me when I'm on my bike. However, running them over is probably not a nice way to cull them.

[Asiantravel]

If you carried out a poll of all the animals I think you'll find none of them asked for motorbikes and cars to be introduced into their environment

Edited October 9, 2012 by Asiantravel

[mauGR1]

If you carried out a poll of all the animals I think you'll find none of them asked for motorbikes and cars to be introduced into their environment

I am waiting for your polls, good luck with the translations; in the same time i am sure you will travel Asia on foot only

[Payboy]

In the UK I have encountered cows on the motorway.

Me too, but I always avoided crashing into them because they were driving Skodas.

[thequietman]

If you carried out a poll of all the animals I think you'll find none of them asked for motorbikes and cars to be introduced into their environment

1 human year is 7 to a dog, I am led to believe. so lets say the dog gets a good run at life and lives to the ripe old age of 15 human years- 105 years old at death (human years)

the roads have been there a dam_n site longer than that. so your point about introducing cars and bikes into their environment doesn't really stand up. does it ?

[endure]

Too bad we don't have driver anymore, I would hire your fired driver immediately.

My wife can spot a stray dog almost 1 km away and immediately start shooting to slow down. The driver who pass over a dog would have to hitchhike his way back to Bangkok.

That said, even if I am the guardian of two dogs that I like deeply, I agree with you, human first !

In the UK, when learning to drive, all learners are taught not to slow down, or, swerve for any animal on the road.

This has come about due to horrendous accidents involving multiple vehicles that was started by someone that swerved to avoid an animal.

If professional driving instructors consider running over the animal as the safest course of action, then that is good enough for me.

Good job they don't teach that in Sweden

[Scully]

I love the way people are saying Thai dogs are stupid.

These dogs sit on the concrete away from insects, snakes etc and they know when a car comes along they can get up walk out of its way.

Have you noticed they always get up and go for a dump in the grass?. Maybe another reason to sit on the road.

There are many stray dogs which need to be culled in my opinion as it will just get worse now they have stopped them from being gathered for the plate.

[Songhua]

If you carried out a poll of all the animals I think you'll find none of them asked for motorbikes and cars to be introduced into their environment

One woof for yes, two for no.

I hit a wombat once (not in Thailand ) ... they are truly solid little critters.

[Asiantravel]

If you carried out a poll of all the animals I think you'll find none of them asked for motorbikes and cars to be introduced into their environment

One woof for yes, two for no.

I hit a wombat once (not in Thailand ) ... they are truly solid little critters.

Don't be silly some dogs are way beyond this woof stuff?!

Edited October 9, 2012 by Asiantravel

[Semper]

Instead of killing innocent dogs with your car, maybe you should teach your inlaws to use a helmet

yep, didn't take long. I deliberately mentioned that he didn't have his helmet on to see if I would get a response like this......... and heh ! thanks for that. I will be sure to explain that to him if he comes out of this incident safely. I will wait first though, just until he can move his limbs and speak.

on a side note, The testing and certification of a helmet requires that it withstand a 13 ( or 16 ) MPH impact. any faster than that, then....................

So what are you saying? Any impact over 16mph and it doesn't matter if you're wearing a helmet or not?

Yes, that's what he's saying. 16mph and an instant stop against a tree or similar, is about what the helmet will protect. If you're doing 130mph and just fall off your your bike, you'll be just fine as you will be sliding on the road. Without a helmet (fullface) you'll have some serious alterations to your head/face.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Semper

[humbug]

_{you blame the dogs for this, what a loon to think to blame the dogs for being stranded by thais, sometimes being taken miles by cars to be dumped in the middle of knowhere by their ex-loving thai owners.}

_{i bet you would swerve for a human right?}

_{if you want to do something, help the local charity for dogs newt them, help them find safer places to live}

_{instead of acting like the hard man running over animals thinking its ok because hey thats what the thais do}

_{even the <deleted> aryans 5000 years ago had rules on how to reer pets and reer animals for food, you would have thought even the thais could learn a few ways, like that}

[geriatrickid]

Next time you are at the hospital ask the your doctor what are the top three causes of emergency medical treatment. Dog bites and road accidents involve stray dogs are right up there.

No need. Excluding diseases, physical injury is related to age group with drowning and posioning leading the way for pediatric cases. Bites and stings do head the list for 7-12 year olds. In Thailand, there are alot of stinging insects. Yes, dog bites do feature for this age group, but they are typicially the result of misadventure such as the child provoking the dog. For adults, motor vehicle impact, falls and violence are the leading causes of injury.Misadventure is a big player in the 19-25 year old group. With the elderly demographic, slips, trips and falls are at the top of the list. Impact with dogs on the road are neither tracked nor considered worthy of tracking. One is more likely to have a serious incident arising from the driver's speed and/or behaviour, or road conditions than an interaction with a dog.

[thequietman]

Next time you are at the hospital ask the your doctor what are the top three causes of emergency medical treatment. Dog bites and road accidents involve stray dogs are right up there.

No need. Excluding diseases, physical injury is related to age group with drowning and posioning leading the way for pediatric cases. Bites and stings do head the list for 7-12 year olds. In Thailand, there are alot of stinging insects. Yes, dog bites do feature for this age group, but they are typicially the result of misadventure such as the child provoking the dog. For adults, motor vehicle impact, falls and violence are the leading causes of injury.Misadventure is a big player in the 19-25 year old group. With the elderly demographic, slips, trips and falls are at the top of the list. Impact with dogs on the road are neither tracked nor considered worthy of tracking. One is more likely to have a serious incident arising from the driver's speed and/or behaviour, or road conditions than an interaction with a dog.

on this you are wrong. google is your friend.

In 2008 412 accidents caused by animals on the road in Thailand, namely dogs.

you see, the figures are tracked and considered.

[mauGR1]

I love the way people are saying Thai dogs are stupid.

These dogs sit on the concrete away from insects, snakes etc and they know when a car comes along they can get up walk out of its way.

Have you noticed they always get up and go for a dump in the grass?. Maybe another reason to sit on the road.

There are many stray dogs which need to be culled in my opinion as it will just get worse now they have stopped them from being gathered for the plate.

In fact the behaviour you describe is quite smart, but if a dog, sitting on the edge of the road, crosses my path in the exact moment i am coming forward riding my motorbike..How would you describe that behaviour ?

If i call him stupid, could be a poor wording, so should i call him " less intelligent " ?

Note that i am not blaming anyone here, just stating the dogs are a MAJOR cause of accidents on Koh Chang,

[thequietman]

_{you blame the dogs for this, what a loon to think to blame the dogs for being stranded by thais, sometimes being taken miles by cars to be dumped in the middle of knowhere by their ex-loving thai owners.}

_{i bet you would swerve for a human right?}

_{if you want to do something, help the local charity for dogs newt them, help them find safer places to live}

_{instead of acting like the hard man running over animals thinking its ok because hey thats what the thais do}

_{even the <deleted> aryans 5000 years ago had rules on how to reer pets and reer animals for food, you would have thought even the thais could learn a few ways, like that}

These dogs lie at the front of their owners house. someone does own them and feed them but choose not to remove them from the road.

these same people in an accident are nowhere to be found. "is this your dog" ? "certainly not."

however if you were to lift a stick to drive the dog away and they are there chastising you for hitting their dog.

it happens ........... a lot.

ok, how about this............ teenager on a motorbike with parent. both with helmets, bike properly insured. tyres good and driver well within safe driving limits. dog lying in the road sleeping on a blind corner. driver and passenger come around corner, too late to see dog. they strike the animal and this causes the bike to swerve. rider and passenger strike a tree and die on site.

same response ?

[Rob8891]

_{you blame the dogs for this, what a loon to think to blame the dogs for being stranded by thais, sometimes being taken miles by cars to be dumped in the middle of knowhere by their ex-loving thai owners.}

_{i bet you would swerve for a human right?}

_{if you want to do something, help the local charity for dogs newt them, help them find safer places to live}

_{instead of acting like the hard man running over animals thinking its ok because hey thats what the thais do}

_{even the <deleted> aryans 5000 years ago had rules on how to reer pets and reer animals for food, you would have thought even the thais could learn a few ways, like that}

These dogs lie at the front of their owners house. someone does own them and feed them but choose not to remove them from the road.

these same people in an accident are nowhere to be found. "is this your dog" ? "certainly not."

however if you were to lift a stick to drive the dog away and they are there chastising you for hitting their dog.

it happens ........... a lot.

ok, how about this............ teenager on a motorbike with parent. both with helmets, bike properly insured. tyres good and driver well within safe driving limits. dog lying in the road sleeping on a blind corner. driver and passenger come around corner, too late to see dog. they strike the animal and this causes the bike to swerve. rider and passenger strike a tree and die on site.

same response ?

If it is a blind corner, then any driver should be driving appropriately, allowing for any unforseen person/object/vehicle/dog that may be around said blind corner. The answer, by the way, is not T.i.T.

[JurgenG]

Too bad we don't have driver anymore, I would hire your fired driver immediately.

My wife can spot a stray dog almost 1 km away and immediately start shooting to slow down. The driver who pass over a dog would have to hitchhike his way back to Bangkok.

That said, even if I am the guardian of two dogs that I like deeply, I agree with you, human first !

In the UK, when learning to drive, all learners are taught not to slow down, or, swerve for any animal on the road.

This has come about due to horrendous accidents involving multiple vehicles that was started by someone that swerved to avoid an animal.

If professional driving instructors consider running over the animal as the safest course of action, then that is good enough for me.

If it's a kid, what do you do ?

When I learned to drive, I learned that I should be at all times in control of my car, which basically means if I can spot an obstacle enough in advance, being a kid, a dog or anything else I should be able to stop without causing any major trouble. That's basic driving skills.

In your example, the accidents most of the time are caused not by swerving but because the drivers was not paying attention to what was going on in front of them and was not able to anticipate the movement of the dog, the kid or the motorcycle driver in front of him.

There are of cause cases when a kid, a dog, a deer ... jumps in front of you and you can't do much to avoid the accident. But most of the time by driving at an appropriate speed and paying attention to what is going on around, accident can be avoided.

Edited October 9, 2012 by JurgenG

[GuestHouse]

As a cyclist I find the issue is not dogs sleeping in the road, carelessly wandering into the road or not even blindly chasing cats across the road into my path.

The big risk is being attacked by dogs - often packs of feral dogs.

Now like I say, I'm a dog lover, this evening I fed a bitch who's nursing her puppies (the owner has gone off on business somewhere and of course deserted the dog to look after the house, and itself + pups).

So no, I'm not a dog hater.

But this armchair theorising on scenarios where a driver might or might not have an accident because of a dog / because of his own carelessness is utter hogwash when being chased by packs of stray dogs.

Home made pepper spray, liberally laced with ammonia makes a very effective defensive weapon against attacking dogs - but as the say, sometimes the best form of defence is a preemptive attack.

I'm told there are people who spend a great deal of time and effort clearing circuits of the menace of feral dogs. I haven't free time to devote to such a socially useful project, but dog free circuits there are and they didn't get dog free because cars and motorbikes were running them over faster than they can breed.

[Scully]

I love the way people are saying Thai dogs are stupid.

These dogs sit on the concrete away from insects, snakes etc and they know when a car comes along they can get up walk out of its way.

Have you noticed they always get up and go for a dump in the grass?. Maybe another reason to sit on the road.

There are many stray dogs which need to be culled in my opinion as it will just get worse now they have stopped them from being gathered for the plate.

In fact the behaviour you describe is quite smart, but if a dog, sitting on the edge of the road, crosses my path in the exact moment i am coming forward riding my motorbike..How would you describe that behaviour ?

If i call him stupid, could be a poor wording, so should i call him " less intelligent " ?

Note that i am not blaming anyone here, just stating the dogs are a MAJOR cause of accidents on Koh Chang,

Even less intelligent is wrong, dogs only learn what they are taught or what they learn through their actions.

Trained or untrained dogs might be a better way to describe them.

Anyway I will shut up now because I totally agree with you regarding road safety. Koh Changs roads are dangerous enough without having to dodge dogs

[GentlemanJim]

In the flying world I did a lot of research in to error, accidents, emergencies, cognitive failures etc etc and there is some very interesting things that you can do to pre-prepare yourself for an event that requires a split second decision. The key is you must make the decision now! Of course many situations have many variables but in general as in the dog case you can make a decision now that will remain in the subconscious should the need arise.

I am no advocate of running over dogs and I find the OP's statements that he purposely does it completely wrong.

Many people and in fact entire families have been wiped out when a car swerves to avoid a dog. Pedestrians and children have been hit and killed by cars avoiding dogs, and of course the dog carries on walking regardless. If a dog or other small animal suddenly runs out in the road you must make the conscious decision now to brake but only remain in the direction you were traveling. If the dog continues and runs under the wheels, tough. Do not swerve, do not oversteer do not change lanes or run off the road. You may be ok but others around you will not be prepared for your actions and the potential chain of disaster starts.

I feel sorry for BiL of the OP but on a bike you have got to drive both safely AND defensively, especially out here. As for the dogs that lie in the road , well we get that, if you slow down they will move, to run over them purposely displays a complete disregard for life. IF it is a choice between the potential lives of the dog or you/family then there is no choice, brake in a straight line, providing traffic conditions permit that, if not continue on your course and get ready for the impact. Speeding towards Tesco in your truck, identifying a dog on the road ahead and then sounding the horn and continuing at speed is really not the same, its doggycide and its wrong.

Make the decision now, when it happens you will do it! Don't run in to a tree or an oncoming vehicle to save a dog.

[GentlemanJim]

Don't be silly some dogs are way beyond this woof stuff?!

You reminded me of this one. I still giggle every time I watch this, PMSL

Edited October 9, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Rob8891]

Don't be silly some dogs are way beyond this woof stuff?!

You reminded me of this one. I still giggle every time I watch this, PMSL

dam_n..... I was searching for this! It has to be the best dog video on the 'net (which will no doubt precipitate an avalanche of doggie vids)

[Rob8891]

Next time you are at the hospital ask the your doctor what are the top three causes of emergency medical treatment. Dog bites and road accidents involve stray dogs are right up there.

No need. Excluding diseases, physical injury is related to age group with drowning and posioning leading the way for pediatric cases. Bites and stings do head the list for 7-12 year olds. In Thailand, there are alot of stinging insects. Yes, dog bites do feature for this age group, but they are typicially the result of misadventure such as the child provoking the dog. For adults, motor vehicle impact, falls and violence are the leading causes of injury.Misadventure is a big player in the 19-25 year old group. With the elderly demographic, slips, trips and falls are at the top of the list. Impact with dogs on the road are neither tracked nor considered worthy of tracking. One is more likely to have a serious incident arising from the driver's speed and/or behaviour, or road conditions than an interaction with a dog.

on this you are wrong. google is your friend.

In 2008 412 accidents caused by animals on the road in Thailand, namely dogs.

you see, the figures are tracked and considered.

I wonder how many of those 412 accidents involved humans...... Hmmmmm...Let's see now..........412?

You cannot serious believe, or expect anyone else to believe, that in every case the driver was clear of all fault, or that the animal was at fault.

Figures may be tracked, but not considered adequately. I refuse to use the cliche "lies, damned lies and statistics"......ooops

[GentlemanJim]

Don't be silly some dogs are way beyond this woof stuff?!

You reminded me of this one. I still giggle every time I watch this, PMSL

dam_n..... I was searching for this! It has to be the best dog video on the 'net (which will no doubt precipitate an avalanche of doggie vids)

If I want to have a laugh anytime I just have to watch that 2 or 3 times and I am off. Doesn't matter how many times I watch it, it's still bloody funny.

[CharlieH]

Don't be silly some dogs are way beyond this woof stuff?!

You reminded me of this one. I still giggle every time I watch this, PMSL

dam_n..... I was searching for this! It has to be the best dog video on the 'net (which will no doubt precipitate an avalanche of doggie vids)

If I want to have a laugh anytime I just have to watch that 2 or 3 times and I am off. Doesn't matter how many times I watch it, it's still bloody funny.

+1....

[thequietman]

Next time you are at the hospital ask the your doctor what are the top three causes of emergency medical treatment. Dog bites and road accidents involve stray dogs are right up there.

No need. Excluding diseases, physical injury is related to age group with drowning and posioning leading the way for pediatric cases. Bites and stings do head the list for 7-12 year olds. In Thailand, there are alot of stinging insects. Yes, dog bites do feature for this age group, but they are typicially the result of misadventure such as the child provoking the dog. For adults, motor vehicle impact, falls and violence are the leading causes of injury.Misadventure is a big player in the 19-25 year old group. With the elderly demographic, slips, trips and falls are at the top of the list. Impact with dogs on the road are neither tracked nor considered worthy of tracking. One is more likely to have a serious incident arising from the driver's speed and/or behaviour, or road conditions than an interaction with a dog.

on this you are wrong. google is your friend.

In 2008 412 accidents caused by animals on the road in Thailand, namely dogs.

you see, the figures are tracked and considered.

I wonder how many of those 412 accidents involved humans...... Hmmmmm...Let's see now..........412?

You cannot serious believe, or expect anyone else to believe, that in every case the driver was clear of all fault, or that the animal was at fault.

Figures may be tracked, but not considered adequately. I refuse to use the cliche "lies, damned lies and statistics"......ooops

Do you actually think before you type ?

Of course the accidents involved humans. who do you think was driving the cars,pickups and motorbikes ? ........... cats perhaps.

The accidents occur on the ROAD, not the field, not the farm yard, not a kennel or a run but on the road. Last time I checked the law states quite clearly that cars,trucks and motorcycles are permitted to be on the road.

Note to self.......... next time check if a dog carries a licence to be on the road. also enquire does it pay road tax and insurance. A pet that weighs 50 pounds, in a 35 mph collision, is projected forward like a cannonball with 1,500 pounds of force, and that can cause critical injuries to anyone in its way.

It shouldn't be on the road. My dog is kept in the grounds of the house and garden.Since it was a puppy it was never allowed on the road and if it decided to wander, it was reminded not to go there. Now, I can leave the gates open and it still won't go beyond the gate. Training is the key.

Owners letting dogs roam freely is a huge cause of accidents, especially in rural areas.

[F1fanatic]

Unfortunately, dogs do not realise that roads are the exclusive terrain of tax-paying people... Instead, they just find it a comfy place to lie - not understanding that it is only intended for a far more important species.

[GentlemanJim]

No need. Excluding diseases, physical injury is related to age group with drowning and posioning leading the way for pediatric cases. Bites and stings do head the list for 7-12 year olds. In Thailand, there are alot of stinging insects. Yes, dog bites do feature for this age group, but they are typicially the result of misadventure such as the child provoking the dog. For adults, motor vehicle impact, falls and violence are the leading causes of injury.Misadventure is a big player in the 19-25 year old group. With the elderly demographic, slips, trips and falls are at the top of the list. Impact with dogs on the road are neither tracked nor considered worthy of tracking. One is more likely to have a serious incident arising from the driver's speed and/or behaviour, or road conditions than an interaction with a dog.

on this you are wrong. google is your friend.

In 2008 412 accidents caused by animals on the road in Thailand, namely dogs.

you see, the figures are tracked and considered.

I wonder how many of those 412 accidents involved humans...... Hmmmmm...Let's see now..........412?

You cannot serious believe, or expect anyone else to believe, that in every case the driver was clear of all fault, or that the animal was at fault.

Figures may be tracked, but not considered adequately. I refuse to use the cliche "lies, damned lies and statistics"......ooops

Do you actually think before you type ?

Of course the accidents involved humans. who do you think was driving the cars,pickups and motorbikes ? ........... cats perhaps.

The accidents occur on the ROAD, not the field, not the farm yard, not a kennel or a run but on the road. Last time I checked the law states quite clearly that cars,trucks and motorcycles are permitted to be on the road.

Note to self.......... next time check if a dog carries a licence to be on the road. also enquire does it pay road tax and insurance. A pet that weighs 50 pounds, in a 35 mph collision, is projected forward like a cannonball with 1,500 pounds of force, and that can cause critical injuries to anyone in its way.

It shouldn't be on the road. My dog is kept in the grounds of the house and garden.Since it was a puppy it was never allowed on the road and if it decided to wander, it was reminded not to go there. Now, I can leave the gates open and it still won't go beyond the gate. Training is the key.

Owners letting dogs roam freely is a huge cause of accidents, especially in rural areas.

Why do you start threads then get angry with people who contribute to the thread when they dont have the same perspective as you. Why are you talking about training being the key when the problem we are mainly talking about here is soi dogs. Who exactly would you like to train them? It is unlikely you are going to hit the dog at 35 mph unless it is you going down the road bull bars at the ready, 3 peeps of the horn then you run the animal over for being too stupid to get out of your way quick enough. Try not beeping the horn and SLOWING DOWN! The animal WILL move. You are harping on about 412 accidents in a year out of 30 000 + accidents.

I am sorry for the terrible predicament your brother in law finds himself in but you need to consider a few things yourself. It is very likely he was driving too fast on his bike. Most of the guys driving their bikes around here in the evening are inevitably pissed. How do you know he came around a corner and swerved out of instinct? It doesn't sound that he is talking much and certainly will not be recollecting much. If you think your brother in laws injuries will be recompensed by a vendetta by you to run over as many dogs as possible then you are the one that needs to think before you type. And think about the 50 ib carcass you leave in the middle of the road as you gleefully notch up another one, nobody is going to move it and the next time a bike comes down the soi in the dark, the dog wont be moving, the bike will hit it and then there is someone else with a broken head in the bed next to your brother in law. I think people cut you some slack at the beginning because they really empathise with your BiL, but lets be honest, the rest of your OP is disgusting.

Training dogs is not the issue here, the issue is getting local authorities to control the numbers of soi dogs and they won't do that here by killing them, so unless you have deep pockets and want to hire a vet to sterilize the soi dogs in your area the problem will always be there, and you under your current behaviour will continue to be wiping bloodstains of your shiny new bull bars.

Edited October 10, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Rob8891]

Well said, GJ.

[thequietman]

for the last time........ these dogs are not soi dogs. they have owners. they lie at the front of their masters homes. if you happened to strike them, they would run to the house that feeds them. I am talking about rural dogs. they don't lie down and sleep anywhere on the road.

they sleep infront off or to the side of the place where their owners are. other dogs next house down and so on won't just let any dog lie where he wants (teritory and all that)

these are dogs that wander into the road and sleep on it with the knowledge of their owners.

I have tried slowing down to the point I stop right infront of them and sound the horn and they still won't move. At that point I have to step from the truck and impart a large boot into them to get them to move and even then..... they look surprised.

you have to see it to believe it. I am not making this up. I have never seen anything like it.