All The Students Failed The English Exam....

[culicine]

Phonics is just one tool to use when teaching people to learn. Multiple ways are needed as people learn diferently. Whole word recongition is probably even more important especially for commonly used words. Phonics comes into its own in helping in the hopefully rare case where we cannot recognize a word or deduce it from its context.

Agreed.......

"Phonics-based instruction was challenged by proponents of “whole-language” instruction, a process in which children are introduced to whole words at a time, are taught using real literature rather than reading exercises, and are encouraged to keep journals in which “creative” spelling is permitted. A strong backlash against whole-language teaching polarized these two approaches to reading instruction. Many schools have since come to use a combination of the two techniques."

:

Source: http://www.merriam-w...tionary/phonics

Whole word recognition is especially vital in instances when a word isn't spoken as it is written. The other day I made a post using the extreme example of, Dough, Bough, Cough, Rough, Through and Ought.

The only way you can say those words correctly is being verbally told how they sound and relying on memory alone, or by writing them down with their phonetic equivalent following. Dough (Doe), Bough (Bow), Cough (Coff), Rough (Ruff), Through (Throo) and Ought (Awt). Using the two methods together is best.

If you can write down the phonetics in Thai script as well, even better.

The amount of time varies from person to person, but eventually you don't need the stuff in the brackets.

Try chuking of words too - many words go together and can be taught as such - "get out", 'come here", etc.

[harrry]

Should be chunking...............not picking the typo though. You can also chunk sounds...such as word endings. sing thing ring fling.

Thing is there are many ways you have to use multiple ways. You also need repetition and cycling of teachings..reoeating the same words and sentences after say 3 days and then each week for a couple more weeks to allow everyone to get on board and to catch up those who missed it last time.

Lecturing does not work. Doing things with the kids does as does the use of very carefully prepared progressive lesson plans with space for repetition and relearning.

Edited October 13, 2012 by harrry

[sirchai]

I've started something that seems to be very helpful. I give them 10 words at the end of the lesson and they have to write the words down in their notebooks.

Then they'll exchange their notebooks and you'll tell them the correct spelling. So the kids are checking how many words were correct.

[culicine]

Should be chunking...............not picking the typo though. You can also chunk sounds...such as word endings. sing thing ring fling.

Thing is there are many ways you have to use multiple ways. You also need repetition and cycling of teachings..reoeating the same words and sentences after say 3 days and then each week for a couple more weeks to allow everyone to get on board and to catch up those who missed it last time.

Lecturing does not work. Doing things with the kids does as does the use of very carefully prepared progressive lesson plans with space for repetition and relearning.

Thanks its a typo, just noticed it:)

[naboo]

How about the OP uploads the test so we can have a look. In my experience, a lot of the times grades are very low its is because the instructions were not at the appropriate language level. Its very difficult to write a test that is only assessing what you want to assess.

So if you want to upload it, we can have a look and see where the problem may be.

[culicine]

How about the OP uploads the test so we can have a look. In my experience, a lot of the times grades are very low its is because the instructions were not at the appropriate language level. Its very difficult to write a test that is only assessing what you want to assess.

So if you want to upload it, we can have a look and see where the problem may be.

Good idea, but most teachers are quite protective of their assessment items. Anyway, regular testing should help with this, as students become familiar with the wording and kinds of questions that turn up on final exams. At least misunderstanding of the questions can then be eliminated.

[Scott]

Testing students is a little tricky. Sometimes it can be the test itself. One problem that I see is that a lot of students cannot read and follow the instructions. The instructions are using words and phrases that are really quite foreign to them. This is especially true with the younger kids.

The first class I ever taught was G. 2 and they were quite good. The first exam, they were baffled and none of them did anything other than write their names. It took me a few minutes to figure out they could not read and understand the instructions. The big stumbling block was that silly word 'Circle'. They all knew it when they heard it, but had seen it written. 'Match the correct word with the picture' was also difficult.

One of things we are teaching, is how to take a test.

[culicine]

Testing students is a little tricky. Sometimes it can be the test itself. One problem that I see is that a lot of students cannot read and follow the instructions. The instructions are using words and phrases that are really quite foreign to them. This is especially true with the younger kids.

The first class I ever taught was G. 2 and they were quite good. The first exam, they were baffled and none of them did anything other than write their names. It took me a few minutes to figure out they could not read and understand the instructions. The big stumbling block was that silly word 'Circle'. They all knew it when they heard it, but had seen it written. 'Match the correct word with the picture' was also difficult.

One of things we are teaching, is how to take a test.

Following that, practice exams the week before are a good idea - just use the same kinds of questions so the kids get a feel for what to do - write the questions on the board and give them a little time, then get them to write answers on the board. Some schools, like mine, seem to frown upon students getting too much practice - hence why I said write questions on the board rather than put copies to the office to do. To me, anything that helps students succeed is a positive thing - that will help improve motivation. We have to pass everyone anyway, so I prefer they do it under their own steam, rather than a silly retest and me then changing the grade.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Thanks for the advice. Well, I am not THAT surprised...but I am surprised that my P.3 students did worse than P.2 since they are older and I (assumed) that they listened better...guess not! I am sure there are many other factors, as you said, that contribute to whether a child does well or not (family problems, learning disabilities, etc).

Short exams every now and then (like a pop quiz) are good ideas. My other issue is I don't have a lot of materials to teach with....my school certainly wont supply me with any (let alone an English workbook or a photocopy machine that actually works...don't even get me started on that!) I'm not really beating myself up over it...I just would like to feel motivated to teach them...but in order to do that, I feel they have to be interested. Many of them see no point in learning English (there are little to no falangs around here).

Another issue is even most of the kids in P.3 cannot read! I have been trying to teach them phonics...but teaching kids how to read in a big class can be very difficult...any suggestions?

You could try the DISTAR method - although more suited to 1-on-1 teaching it can work if you persevere.

When learning Thai it is imperative to learn to read Thai first as this makes mastering the language much easier. It is probably less important with English, but may aid their English learning.

Try to make your lessons more interactive and include more quizzes to get them thinking and talking. Don't forget to congratulate them (or get the rest of the class to) when they get something right as this makes them feel chuffed and will promote a feeling of achievement. Do this often enough and they will start to pay more interest which will get them learning!!

[rijb]

Teaching 30 students in a class is not easy. Yet, learning can occur with the right teacher and the right approach.

The op is "annoyed" that almost 300 students failed the exam. Annoyed at who? The students? Is it their fault they're crammed into a classroom. Is it their fault there is no Thai teacher's assistant? Is it their fault their English teacher is too incompetent and unmotivated (her words) to assess their learning prior to a major exam?

The op was surprised that learning objectives were not met after playing games and copying stuff into their notebooks! Other than bringing useless stuff into the country, what attempts were made to learn the culture and the language? Was there at least enough communication skills with the learners to check for understanding?

There are many good contributions, by experienced teachers, on this thread. But, the op has made little effort to ask questions and find the best way to incorporate them in her teaching approach. Was the op just looking for empathy and sympathy? How can someone teach reading if they can't even teach basic survival skills?

[Markaew]

What I always tell other teachers is don't beat yourself up. We all begin motivated and hoping for the best for our students but after years of students that could care less about you or your subject, you begin to fall into the trap of feeling the same way your students do. Make the best of it and adjust as necessary. Remember, as far as the school and parents are concerned the student's test grade is a reflection on your teaching and not on the student's performance. So give yourself a good grade!!

[marstons]

How to succeed as a teacher in Thailand.

1. Make your exams easier.

2. Make sure they know the answers to the exam the day before.

3. Give them a score of 50% for filling in their name correctly.

Tony Blair did that in the UK for years to show how much education was improving, as with Thailand it does provide reasonably educated people to serve up burgers at McD.

[bkk_mike]

English Language proficiency in Asia - taken from a ranking of 54 countries by EF (English First) based on 1.7m online English language tests.

The four columns are their rank out of the 54 countries (none that are native English speaking, but unsurprisingly the Scandinavians and Dutch occupy a lot of the top spots), the country name, it's score, and the level of proficiency they ranked the country in.

12 Singapore* 58.65 High Proficiency

13 Malaysia* 57.95 High Proficiency

14 India* 57.49 Moderate Proficiency

17 Pakistan* 56.03 Moderate Proficiency

21 South Korea 55.35 Moderate Proficiency

22 Japan 55.14 Moderate Proficiency

25 Hong Kong* 53.65 Moderate Proficiency

27 Indonesia 53.31 Low Proficiency

30 Taiwan 52.42 Low Proficiency

31 Vietnam 52.14 Low Proficiency

36 China 49.00 Low Proficiency

53 Thailand 44.36 Very Low Proficiency

The info is available to download at http://www.ef.co.th/epi/downloads/

(I think HK is a little low, but that's probably because I spend most of my time there on HK island itself so deal mainly with people that can speak some English)

Edit: The asterisks are on the countries where English is an official language.

Edited October 25, 2012 by bkk_mike

[isawasnake]

English Language proficiency in Asia - taken from a ranking of 54 countries by EF (English First) based on 1.7m online English language tests.

The four columns are their rank out of the 54 countries (none that are native English speaking, but unsurprisingly the Scandinavians and Dutch occupy a lot of the top spots), the country name, it's score, and the level of proficiency they ranked the country in.

12 Singapore* 58.65 High Proficiency

13 Malaysia* 57.95 High Proficiency

14 India* 57.49 Moderate Proficiency

17 Pakistan* 56.03 Moderate Proficiency

21 South Korea 55.35 Moderate Proficiency

22 Japan 55.14 Moderate Proficiency

25 Hong Kong* 53.65 Moderate Proficiency

27 Indonesia 53.31 Low Proficiency

30 Taiwan 52.42 Low Proficiency

31 Vietnam 52.14 Low Proficiency

36 China 49.00 Low Proficiency

53 Thailand 44.36 Very Low Proficiency

The info is available to download at http://www.ef.co.th/epi/downloads/

(I think HK is a little low, but that's probably because I spend most of my time there on HK island itself so deal mainly with people that can speak some English)

Edit: The asterisks are on the countries where English is an official language.

And then of course, relate that list to how well those countries do in say international business -- it is almost a perfect correlation really. Thailand needs to concentrate on English, they wont, and even if they do, they wont do it well.... and that's the end of that I guess.

Edited October 26, 2012 by isawasnake

[borabora1]

Question?

Do any of the teachers using this forum expect the english level has improved since the last 4 / 10 years?

Wandering about some feedback...

[Scott]

You ask a difficult question, because as far as the entire nation goes, it's hard to answer unless we look at statistics. The people who have left school are generally probably not progressing in their English and that is a large portion of the population.

Of the students over the past several years, I would say the level is improving, but not much. I work in a bilingual setting and I see the kids move from only having a limited amount of understanding of English to being able to communicate and carry on a conversation in English. It needs more effort and concentration, but it is getting better.

I note that students that are tested for admission that the level of English is better and this is probably because many schools are starting English earlier. Many of these students who are in full Thai programs cannot speak English, but they answer simple questions, know things like the days of the week, months of the years, can count or do simple math in their head (things like what is 100 - 5), depending on their age. The other thing, and this is important, they can read. Quite a few can read much better than they can understand. This leads me to believe the building blocks are there--now we need to get them into working order.

Please keep in mind, my response is purely anecdotal.

[harrry]

The other thing, and this is important, they can read. Quite a few can read much better than they can understand. This leads me to believe the building blocks are there--now we need to get them into working order.

Reading without understanding does not seem to be much use unless of course it can lead to more knowledge. I do feel however that the ability to read and write english well is more important than being able to speak.

[Scott]

Comprehension can be taught and if they can read well, it's a matter of getting them to slow down and pay attention to what they are reading.

[otherstuff1957]

I work at a bilingual school also & my experience is similar to Scott's.

[Xangsamhua]

It seems that some improvement is being seen in bilingual schools that teach perhaps 50% of their curriculum in English. But in Thai-medium schools, despite the presence of foreign teachers, very little progress in English is visible.

If I were trying to market a product that no one really wanted and hardly anyone could follow the instructions for using, I think I'd withdraw it and look for something else to put on the market. I certainly wouldn't put more money into a failed project.

Most of the English programs in Thailand appear to be failed projects. They can be given more time, and more money can be put into them, but the evidence is that they'll continue to fail, the money will be wasted and opportunities to use it better will be lost. Bilingual schools and programs are pulling their weight, but these are paid for by the parents. With the exception of the elite schools, the outcomes of average government school English programs are not worth their costs.

I suggest that all government-sector English programs be closed down or taught only by Thai staff, except for those that can show they really are doing well, or for some strategically placed schools to be designated as centres of excellence for English (and other languages) and staffed with genuinely competent people, both Thai and foreign. The money saved from this can be put into professional development of teachers, improved resourcing and technology, and enabling students to learn by identifying questions, forming hypotheses, gathering data, checking it against the hypotheses, revising/adjusting and drawing conclusions - i.e. enquiry method. And much of this should be done collaboratively, involving both teachers and learners in pairs and groups. (Collaborative learning will be part of the PISA assessment in 2015.)

There's plenty of useful stuff for Thai kids to learn, other than English, that will help them to develop a New Economy - one that takes full advantage of developments in technology. Kids will be much more motivated if they're working on something of interest and immediate relevance to them, especially if they can use school-based technology and their own portable devices. The elite and the good language learners can do all the English part with the R&D, the overseas buyers and sellers, etc. The average student needn't be bothered with it at school. He/She can learn it later if there's a good reason to and motivation is high. Government can assist this study if it's felt to be a national priority.

Just thinking. We want Thai kids to be more creative and motivated at school. Making them learn English is just not doing it.

[HeijoshinCool]

Here are a few things that work for me:

- Use a visible point system for learning and behavior. They need a visual way to see their progress. They live in the moment and love to compete.

- Give them short exams as often as possible (daily). The final exam shouldn't be a surprise - just a longer version of all the exams they've already had - many, many times. Post the scores in the point system.

- They'll learn more / faster by seeing / touching, than by listening. Cut down your talking as much as possible. Even if they understand you, they're not listening.

- If possible, put them in pairs or small teams. Let them help each other.

Good luck.

Excellent points.

If you, the native speaker, however, reduce the amount of speaking you do, how will they learn proper pronunciation?

I have 6th graders at the school where I recently began teaching, who can not answer: how old are you? This, despite five previous years learning English from a Thai teacher with a reasonably decent accent (but poor grammar and confusing idiomatic phrases). They can write an essay, with good grammar, can speak and read--although they are almost impossible for me to understand--but can not understand anything I say. "How old are you?" Blank stare.

Yes, I'm frustrated, too. But just think how frustrated they must be after 5 years of studying "English," and they are now finding out that they are just as unintelligible to a native speaker, as the speaker is to them. What a waste! How defeating of spirit and motivation. I'm genuinely sad for them, but--

---the first graders! ... ah, now there's a willing and able group. My own personal 5 year experiment, then I'm outta here. They are excited to learn. I use a lot of silly drawings from the web (the "old lady's shoe house", for example) and lots of coloring while teaching them nouns. They love it.

Anyway, after one semester, the 2nd and 3rd graders respond more actively, and correctly, than the 5th and 6th. I imagine because the bad habits and the "soured" ear are not as deeply entrenched in the younger ones.

I would be long gone myself, except I detest quitting. And, er, it doesn't hurt that the school is building me a house to my specs if I promise to stay 5 years.

[culicine]

Here are a few things that work for me:

- Use a visible point system for learning and behavior. They need a visual way to see their progress. They live in the moment and love to compete.

- Give them short exams as often as possible (daily). The final exam shouldn't be a surprise - just a longer version of all the exams they've already had - many, many times. Post the scores in the point system.

- They'll learn more / faster by seeing / touching, than by listening. Cut down your talking as much as possible. Even if they understand you, they're not listening.

- If possible, put them in pairs or small teams. Let them help each other.

Good luck.

Excellent points.

If you, the native speaker, however, reduce the amount of speaking you do, how will they learn proper pronunciation?

I have 6th graders at the school where I recently began teaching, who can not answer: how old are you? This, despite five previous years learning English from a Thai teacher with a reasonably decent accent (but poor grammar and confusing idiomatic phrases). They can write an essay, with good grammar, can speak and read--although they are almost impossible for me to understand--but can not understand anything I say. "How old are you?" Blank stare.

Yes, I'm frustrated, too. But just think how frustrated they must be after 5 years of studying "English," and they are now finding out that they are just as unintelligible to a native speaker, as the speaker is to them. What a waste! How defeating of spirit and motivation. I'm genuinely sad for them, but--

---the first graders! ... ah, now there's a willing and able group. My own personal 5 year experiment, then I'm outta here. They are excited to learn. I use a lot of silly drawings from the web (the "old lady's shoe house", for example) and lots of coloring while teaching them nouns. They love it.

Anyway, after one semester, the 2nd and 3rd graders respond more actively, and correctly, than the 5th and 6th. I imagine because the bad habits and the "soured" ear are not as deeply entrenched in the younger ones.

I would be long gone myself, except I detest quitting. And, er, it doesn't hurt that the school is building me a house to my specs if I promise to stay 5 years.

I've taught every grade, from 2 to 12 over a span of 12 years here. I'd say grade 3-4 are the most responsive and motivated to learn. Grade 1-2 is hard because they are still learning basic commands and setting the social order in the class; they are more of a handful.

[Scott]

I've also taught all grades (including KG). The best grade is G 2. They fully understand school, they have some basic skills. No matter how far behind they are, they can catch up (all things being equal). They have yet to develop a lot of bad habits. Grade 2 are nice, but after a couple of years, they are a little boring to teach.

The great thing, however, is that plenty of teachers disagree and a big part of the equation is enthusiasm on the part of the teacher.

[sirchai]

Here are a few things that work for me:

- Use a visible point system for learning and behavior. They need a visual way to see their progress. They live in the moment and love to compete.

- Give them short exams as often as possible (daily). The final exam shouldn't be a surprise - just a longer version of all the exams they've already had - many, many times. Post the scores in the point system.

- They'll learn more / faster by seeing / touching, than by listening. Cut down your talking as much as possible. Even if they understand you, they're not listening.

- If possible, put them in pairs or small teams. Let them help each other.

Good luck.

Excellent points.

If you, the native speaker, however, reduce the amount of speaking you do, how will they learn proper pronunciation?

I have 6th graders at the school where I recently began teaching, who can not answer: how old are you? This, despite five previous years learning English from a Thai teacher with a reasonably decent accent (but poor grammar and confusing idiomatic phrases). They can write an essay, with good grammar, can speak and read--although they are almost impossible for me to understand--but can not understand anything I say. "How old are you?" Blank stare.

Yes, I'm frustrated, too. But just think how frustrated they must be after 5 years of studying "English," and they are now finding out that they are just as unintelligible to a native speaker, as the speaker is to them. What a waste! How defeating of spirit and motivation. I'm genuinely sad for them, but--

---the first graders! ... ah, now there's a willing and able group. My own personal 5 year experiment, then I'm outta here. They are excited to learn. I use a lot of silly drawings from the web (the "old lady's shoe house", for example) and lots of coloring while teaching them nouns. They love it.

Anyway, after one semester, the 2nd and 3rd graders respond more actively, and correctly, than the 5th and 6th. I imagine because the bad habits and the "soured" ear are not as deeply entrenched in the younger ones.

I would be long gone myself, except I detest quitting. And, er, it doesn't hurt that the school is building me a house to my specs if I promise to stay 5 years.

I’ve realized that not all native speakers do understand each other when speaking faster. A good example is a guy from the States and a bloke from Birmingham.

Whenever they meet, the American always has to tell him to repeat it again, because he doesn't understand his mumbling, etc…

Thai kids being taught by Thai teachers don’t speak that often, as their teachers believe having a good grammatical knowledge is more important, and their command in said language is mostly very questionable to me.

Thai teachers usually don’t use English outside the classroom, which makes it almost impossible to learn how to speak proper English.

So when native English speaking teachers do their job, they have to make sure that the kids understand them, as no one would say they didn't.

A Thai loosing face attitude…

Thai kids have to get used to “real English”, once that’s done; it’s very easy to continue teaching them more and more. Thai kids aren't stupid, just the system is.

But to get back to the post, if nobody had passed a test, there must have been something wrong with the teaching before.

If I drive on the wrong side of a highway, I can't blame all the others for doing something wrong.

Best way to teach them is to use their surroundings, before continuing with “heavy” stuff.

Once they’re able to answer questions about themselves, they’ll be more confident in learning a second language.---

Edited November 2, 2012 by sirchai

[chuck_s]

I thought Thailand had that "No student fail policy" still.

[Honkie]

English Language proficiency in Asia - taken from a ranking of 54 countries by EF (English First) based on 1.7m online English language tests.

The four columns are their rank out of the 54 countries (none that are native English speaking, but unsurprisingly the Scandinavians and Dutch occupy a lot of the top spots), the country name, it's score, and the level of proficiency they ranked the country in.

12 Singapore* 58.65 High Proficiency

13 Malaysia* 57.95 High Proficiency

14 India* 57.49 Moderate Proficiency

17 Pakistan* 56.03 Moderate Proficiency

21 South Korea 55.35 Moderate Proficiency

22 Japan 55.14 Moderate Proficiency

25 Hong Kong* 53.65 Moderate Proficiency

27 Indonesia 53.31 Low Proficiency

30 Taiwan 52.42 Low Proficiency

31 Vietnam 52.14 Low Proficiency

36 China 49.00 Low Proficiency

53 Thailand 44.36 Very Low Proficiency

The info is available to download at http://www.ef.co.th/epi/downloads/

(I think HK is a little low, but that's probably because I spend most of my time there on HK island itself so deal mainly with people that can speak some English)

Edit: The asterisks are on the countries where English is an official language.

English Language proficiency in Asia - taken from a ranking of 54 countries by EF (English First) based on 1.7m online English language tests.

The four columns are their rank out of the 54 countries (none that are native English speaking, but unsurprisingly the Scandinavians and Dutch occupy a lot of the top spots), the country name, it's score, and the level of proficiency they ranked the country in.

12 Singapore* 58.65 High Proficiency

13 Malaysia* 57.95 High Proficiency

14 India* 57.49 Moderate Proficiency

17 Pakistan* 56.03 Moderate Proficiency

21 South Korea 55.35 Moderate Proficiency

22 Japan 55.14 Moderate Proficiency

25 Hong Kong* 53.65 Moderate Proficiency

27 Indonesia 53.31 Low Proficiency

30 Taiwan 52.42 Low Proficiency

31 Vietnam 52.14 Low Proficiency

36 China 49.00 Low Proficiency

53 Thailand 44.36 Very Low Proficiency

The info is available to download at http://www.ef.co.th/epi/downloads/

(I think HK is a little low, but that's probably because I spend most of my time there on HK island itself so deal mainly with people that can speak some English)

Edit: The asterisks are on the countries where English is an official language.

You are not quite right there , mate . Simplified Chinese becomes the Official language of Hong Kong since 1997.

[Thaddeus]

English Language proficiency in Asia - taken from a ranking of 54 countries by EF (English First) based on 1.7m online English language tests.

The four columns are their rank out of the 54 countries (none that are native English speaking, but unsurprisingly the Scandinavians and Dutch occupy a lot of the top spots), the country name, it's score, and the level of proficiency they ranked the country in.

12 Singapore* 58.65 High Proficiency

13 Malaysia* 57.95 High Proficiency

14 India* 57.49 Moderate Proficiency

17 Pakistan* 56.03 Moderate Proficiency

21 South Korea 55.35 Moderate Proficiency

22 Japan 55.14 Moderate Proficiency

25 Hong Kong* 53.65 Moderate Proficiency

27 Indonesia 53.31 Low Proficiency

30 Taiwan 52.42 Low Proficiency

31 Vietnam 52.14 Low Proficiency

36 China 49.00 Low Proficiency

53 Thailand 44.36 Very Low Proficiency

The info is available to download at http://www.ef.co.th/epi/downloads/

(I think HK is a little low, but that's probably because I spend most of my time there on HK island itself so deal mainly with people that can speak some English)

Edit: The asterisks are on the countries where English is an official language.

You are not quite right there , mate . Simplified Chinese becomes the Official language of Hong Kong since 1997.

English is An official language, not The official language. And Simplified Chinese is a character set, not a language.