Thai (Non Thai) Id Card For Permanent Residents

[Dork]

Discovered recently that there is provision for such a card. Does anyone know if this has already been covered in another thread? I'm surprised not to find any reference to it.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Dork

[chiang mai]

A 5 year Thai drivers license serves the same purpose.

[Mario2008]

Check at www.dopa.go.th They will probably be the ones that issue the document.

[Dork]

Check at www.dopa.go.th They will probably be the ones that issue the document.

Yes, that's right. I don't have the specific links on hand right now but that is where the details can be found.

[howzat]

Permanent Residents are not entititied to Thai ID card simply because we are not Thai..

[Dork]

Permanent Residents are not entititied to Thai ID card simply because we are not Thai..

Migrant workers from neighbouring countries can have ID cards issued by the Thai Government and they are not Thai.

The card I am referring to is an ID card issued in the same way as a Thai's ID card except that it is specifically for Non-Thai citizens. There is specific mention (in the DOPA manuals) of Permanent Residents though I am not entirely sure whether or not it could include holders of a yellow Tabien Ban.

I have some more information but not the specific links on hand. I will try to put them together and post later today.

[wdrk7]

I think you are referring to the red book .

[asiaexpat]

Based on my research and family history a non-Thai temporary resident is to use the passport for ID and permanent residents are to use the Red Book as ID. No "card" is issued to non-Thai unless the are registered migrant workers (Burmese, etc.) and they get a color coded ID "card".

[Dork]

Here is a procedural manual for local offices (attached) and some links to download the relevant PDF’s some of which are quite big (25MB). All the documents are obviously in Thai, which I can’t read, so I’m hoping that someone cleverer than me can shed some more light on this.

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Procedural Manual

http://www.dopabook.com:8085/ebook/view.jsp?Open_Page=yes&id_PageBook=29896&booktype=2

Refer to page 102-103 which I think is the framework for amendments in 2008

http://www.dopabook.com:8085/ebook/view.jsp?Open_Page=yes&id_PageBook=28209&booktype=2

The details are in pages 81-89 (in Thai numerals) or PDF page numbers 95-103. I think this dates from 2011.

My wife brought this to my attention after she had studied the procedure for entering my name into the Tabien Ban at our local Amphur. I was a bit sceptical but she claimed that, according to what she read an ID card for Non-Thai’s with Permanent Residence was already provided for in law some time ago and that even the procedural manuals were completed so there should be no reason for it not to be implemented by now.

During the process of entering my name into the Tabien Ban my wife brought up the ID card question with the officer in charge who did appear to vaguely know about it however she was quite sure that it had not yet been implemented so suggested that we speak to the boss of registrations at the Amphur. My wife had all the relevant documents and manuals loaded on her IPad and in the meantime had called the Department of Provincial Administration (DOPA) who connected her to the Bureau of Registration Administration (BORA) where she eventually spoke to whoever is in charge of Issuing ID cards. He conceded that yes she was right and it should have been implemented by now but wasn’t yet mainly because the software hasn’t been adapted to allow input at local Government offices but that that wasn’t a major stumbling block. He said that we should make an application at our local Amphur for the ID card which will provide some impetus to get things moving. In the meantime he would follow it up.

To cut a long story short, the boss of registrations (don’t know his correct title) did hesitatingly accept my application for an ID card though without any promises on timing due to the missing software. I don’t know of course but I get the impression we are talking more about several weeks rather than several months.

If anyone here knows anything more about this subject that would be helpful. Perhaps in the meantime anyone else going through the motions with PR issuance at the moment might make the same enquiry at their local office. Presumably, the more pressure the better.

[Maestro]

...

To cut a long story short, the boss of registrations (don’t know his correct title) did hesitatingly accept my application for an ID card though without any promises on timing due to the missing software. I don’t know of course but I get the impression we are talking more about several weeks rather than several months...

More likely several years, I'm afraid.

[sas_cars]

...

To cut a long story short, the boss of registrations (don’t know his correct title) did hesitatingly accept my application for an ID card though without any promises on timing due to the missing software. I don’t know of course but I get the impression we are talking more about several weeks rather than several months...

More likely several years, I'm afraid.

Yeah, likely to be serveral years for you to get the ID card, but only if you apply for citizenship now.

[Dork]

Here is a scan of my new ID card (minus the personal info)

As mentioned in my last post, though it was processed last November there was a delay in printing the card due to a glitch in the software that wouldn't allow ID numbers beginning with 8. It was actually ready a few weeks ago but I was away so my wife picked it up.

Though the software issue is obviously now solved there is still an error on the back of the card. Because up until now the pink cards have only been issued to migrants from neighbouring countries, it is stated that "the holder must not leave the area in which the card was issued without permission". According to the template (made 5 years ago!) attached here (Template.pdf), the card for permanent residents is supposed to have that part annotated with "unless the holder has an alien certificate" - obviously referring to the infamous "red book" issued by the police. To me, even this seems flawed in that if you need to have the alien certificate to prove you can leave your local district then it somewhat defeats the purpose of having an ID card. Anyway, I would imagine that any competent official examining the card would be so perplexed that they wouldn't know what to do.

When my wife picked up the card she noticed the omitted clause and queried the Amphur about it. Since they have never had any clue about the whole process, unsurprisingly they had no answer for that either. She then called whoever is in charge at BORA (division of DOPA) to complain that since they've had 5 years to get the blank cards printed, couldn't they do better? And who is going to take responsibility in the case of a problem with say the police? The answer was that they are working on a new card now and they promised to have it ready within a couple of months. However since DOPA can't even manage to supply enough ID cards for Thai's, I'm not holding my breath.

Hopefully when the final version of this card is sorted out it will solve the interminable argument about the necessity of carrying a passport and be useful for many other things besides - at least for PR's.

My advice to any other PR's that want the card is to be persistent because the chance of meeting resistance at your local office is quite high. If it helps anyone trying to convince recalcitrant officers, my card was issued at Nonthaburi Amphur so getting the officer to call them may help. Good luck!

[tombkk]

Congratulations! My province is Bangkok, so I will check with the Khet that put me into the blue tabienbaan.

I just talked to my landlord (in whose tabienbaan I am), and he'll support me so we'll go there together.

[asiaexpat]

Thanks Dork. This may help at the Ket.

[Michael Hare]

I live in Ubon Ratchathani and have been a permanent resident for 9 years. I am registered in the same blue book (household registration) as Thais. I inquired two years ago at the Ubon city council which issue ID cards and was told that that could not issue me with such a card. Maybe it was because they don't have the software for it or maybe they have never been asked before. Apart from some local Vietnamese I think I a could be one of the very few farangs with P R in Ubon.

Do I need an ID card? I find my passport and drivers licence are enough. After all I come from NZ and we don't have ID cards or household registration there. An invasion of privacy.

By the way what is the red book referred to above? I have a dark brown alien registration book. Are these books now red?

[beano2274]

Can someone explain the ID numbers given to us, I noticed Dork has a number beginning with "8" and mine begins with "6", can someone tell me what the difference is?

[Mario2008]

An 8 i believe means permanent residency, a 6 means that you you have a Thai ID number because you are on a yellow household book.

[Dork]

An 8 i believe means permanent residency, a 6 means that you you have a Thai ID number because you are on a yellow household book.

That's my understanding too. Though I think 8 is also used for naturalised Thai citizens, in this instance it could only mean a foreigner with PR. I intentionally left that visible because it might help other PR's in convincing their local office.

The other possibly useful info that is still visible is the number 1299 which I'm pretty sure means 12 for Nonthaburi province and 99 for the specific office. Also the year of issue 2555 (2012) and expiry 2565 (2022).

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Forget where I got this item but off the www.

Mac

[sas_cars]

In my humble opinion, a driving license for a PR holder is a superior form of ID comparing to this pink id card. If you are stopped by a police officer, showing this ID will put you in more trouble since it has various restrictions on mobility of the holder, even though as you say that there's a clause for a PR which allows free mobility, but for that, you need to carry your red book which defeats the purpose of having this card in the first place.

Driving license is a much more better form of ID for a foreigner comparing this ID.

[Dork]

In my humble opinion, a driving license for a PR holder is a superior form of ID comparing to this pink id card. If you are stopped by a police officer, showing this ID will put you in more trouble since it has various restrictions on mobility of the holder, even though as you say that there's a clause for a PR which allows free mobility, but for that, you need to carry your red book which defeats the purpose of having this card in the first place.

Driving license is a much more better form of ID for a foreigner comparing this ID.

Yes, along with your last opinion in post 11 of this thread.

[Boksida]

An 8 i believe means permanent residency, a 6 means that you you have a Thai ID number because you are on a yellow household book.

The ID number shown in my blue House Registration book starts with a 5. My two kids are in the same book and theirs starts with a 1, which as Thai citizens would seem to be correct. In view of Thanyaburi Mac's post with the code explained, I can't figure out how I came to be in the "5" category. Does anybody know?

[Mario2008]

Are you in the book as PR-holder, Thai national or only as father of a Thai national?

[Boksida]

Are you in the book as PR-holder, Thai national or only as father of a Thai national?

I am in the book as the house owner. I am a PR holder but have made an application for citizenship but I think that post dates the issue of the house registration book, so is probably not an issue.

[Arkady]

Are you in the book as PR-holder, Thai national or only as father of a Thai national?

I am in the book as the house owner. I am a PR holder but have made an application for citizenship but I think that post dates the issue of the house registration book, so is probably not an issue.

I am in the blue book as householder too but I can't remember any questions about this on the form. I think each house or condo needs a householder and the first person registered at that address will be listed as householder. Note it is technically "householder" not "house owner". They don't require any evidence of your ownership of the property, just that you have permission from the owner to stay there, if you are not the owner. The householder has certain legal obligations to register who is living at the address and if anyone leaves or dies there.

[Arkady]

After reading Dork's account of his pink ID card I did a bit more research
and came up with the 2008 regulations that are referenced on the back of the
template posted by Dork and earlier by Thai Owl and I have attached them here
(in Thai). I got them from the Royal Gazette but they are also posted on
the website the Department of Provincial Administration (DoPA), the Interior
Ministry department that is responsible for all district offices http://ilab.dopa.go....9/rules2551.pdf
.

When Thai Owl first raised this issue last November I came across some
earlier regulations from 2004 to do with issuing the pink ID cards that listed
15 groups that are eligible for ID cards, including former members of Chinese
Communist Party of Malaya, displaced Burmese refugees of Thai ethnicity etc,
etc. However, I now believe these regulations to be out of date.

Thus far I have only scanned the 2008 regulations and have not read every word.

However, it seems to me that they are much broader and less specific. The
definition of people without Thai nationality who are eligible for the ID cards
is:

i) Those with permanent residence in the Kingdom with alien certificate or

residence certificate.

ii) Those given special dispensation to remain in the Kingdom - i.e.
stateless people, former Chinese Communists, Kuomintang, displaced Thais etc.

I can't see any suggestion that it is necessary to be either stateless or
migrant labour from Burma, Cambodia or Laos.

I still think the pink ID cards are intended for the 15 minority groups
and/or migrant labourers but it is possible that DoPA has come up with some
overlapping regulations which don't exclude PRs who come from the business
quota because it makes sense for minorities with PR to have pink IDs.
Minorities and stateless people can also obtain PR in certain
circumstances. People in the hill tribe areas, for example, are expected
to carry a Thai or alien ID card. So one can imagine it makes sense for
district offices to issue them with pink IDs in addition to their alien books
which are cumbersome and not understood by many officials.

I am not sure where to find the law about carrying ID at all times but I
assume a government issued ID card would fit the bill as well as an alien
book. The condition on the back of the ID card requiring permission to
leave the district that issued it might be a problem though and could require
carrying the alien book as proof of permission to leave the district - Catch
22.

The regulations seem to stipulate the exact time you can apply for an ID
card, i.e. 60 days after becoming 5 years old or when your name is entered in a
tabien baan. If your name was entered on a tabien baan many years before
the 2008 regulations came into force, that could be another Catch 22. LoL.

Anyway I am going mull over whether I want to go along to my district office
with a copy of the regulations and the manual posted by Dork. My all of
life driving licence has so far proved good enough ID to carry for traffic
police and checking into hotels. It might interesting just trying to push
the envelope though.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Arkady

[tombkk]

I live in Ubon Ratchathani and have been a permanent resident for 9 years. I am registered in the same blue book (household registration) as Thais. I inquired two years ago at the Ubon city council which issue ID cards and was told that that could not issue me with such a card. Maybe it was because they don't have the software for it or maybe they have never been asked before. Apart from some local Vietnamese I think I a could be one of the very few farangs with P R in Ubon.

Do I need an ID card? I find my passport and drivers licence are enough. After all I come from NZ and we don't have ID cards or household registration there. An invasion of privacy.

By the way what is the red book referred to above? I have a dark brown alien registration book. Are these books now red?

The red books were printed many decades ago, so they now look brown. On mine (obtained in October last year), I cannot even read the name of the book, that's how old it is.

[Michael Hare]

Yesterday I printed out the copy of the card supplied by Dork and the information supplied by Arkady and dropped into the Ubon Ratchathani Council offices on the way to work. They took my request seriously, read the information, asked for my blue house registration book which has my ID number in it already and in no time at all I was processed (thumbs scanned and photo taken). Information all put into the computer. They said it would take at least one month if not longer to get the ID card. It made their morning to receive my application. They said it was like a Vietnamese ID which many hold in Ubon Ratchathani.

I am grateful to the information supplied by Dork and Arkady. Thank you.

Hopefully the card can prove useful when I travel around Thailand.

[Dork]

Yesterday I printed out the copy of the card supplied by Dork and the information supplied by Arkady and dropped into the Ubon Ratchathani Council offices on the way to work. They took my request seriously, read the information, asked for my blue house registration book which has my ID number in it already and in no time at all I was processed (thumbs scanned and photo taken). Information all put into the computer. They said it would take at least one month if not longer to get the ID card. It made their morning to receive my application. They said it was like a Vietnamese ID which many hold in Ubon Ratchathani.

I am grateful to the information supplied by Dork and Arkady. Thank you.

Hopefully the card can prove useful when I travel around Thailand.

You're very welcome. That's good news that it went smoothly. Hopefully the more of us that apply for the card, the greater the pressure on DOPA to get the wording on the card right. Once that's done, it should be easy to get an updated card printed to replace the present one.

[Michael Hare]

Yesterday I printed out the copy of the card supplied by Dork and the information supplied by Arkady and dropped into the Ubon Ratchathani Council offices on the way to work. They took my request seriously, read the information, asked for my blue house registration book which has my ID number in it already and in no time at all I was processed (thumbs scanned and photo taken). Information all put into the computer. They said it would take at least one month if not longer to get the ID card. It made their morning to receive my application. They said it was like a Vietnamese ID which many hold in Ubon Ratchathani.

I am grateful to the information supplied by Dork and Arkady. Thank you.

Hopefully the card can prove useful when I travel around Thailand.

You're very welcome. That's good news that it went smoothly. Hopefully the more of us that apply for the card, the greater the pressure on DOPA to get the wording on the card right. Once that's done, it should be easy to get an updated card printed to replace the present one.

This morning, August 29, I was rung up by the Ubon Ratchathani City council to inform me that my ID card was there to collect. It took almost 5 months from the time I made the application until today.

This afternoon I collected the card. A pink card. Similar to what I had back in the 1970s as a volunteer but that was a cardboard card with a limited life. This is a plastic smart card and is for LIFE.

It is only an ID card with my number on it which is the same as on my house registration book (blue book). It is clearly written that it is an ID card for a non Thai national. Further down it is written that is for a person with Permaent residence.

On Sunday I am flying from Ubon to Bangkok and so I will test it out. Show it at the airport and the Bangkok Hotel and see whether or not it accepted instead of my passport.

Thank you Visa Forum for giving the information earlier this year about the paperwork needed to get this ID card.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Maestro
Fixed quote tags