Big bike forced off road by car on Bangkok highway - video

[pooperscooper]

Very obviously, you confuse performance and intensity. There's no doubt that performance is affected by heat and humidity but what you seem to fail to understand is that it doesn't have to mean you work less even though you might be lifting less.

Furthermore, everyone's goal in the gym is different. Some guys wish to gain muscle mass, others like me want to make sure that strength is maintained or increased but body weight stays as low as possible. Every extra pound is detrimental in many endurance sports even if it's muscle. I have a much easier time keeping my weight down in the heat and since any competition events around here will be in the heat, it makes sense to adapt as best as possible. Others have different goals and it may make more sense to them to do it differently which is fine. There's no need to try to denigrate people for making a personal choice that is perfectly valid.

The way some of you are reacting is fairly childish... One telling the other he's not in good enough shape to work out in the heat and the other taunting that you can't work out hard in the heat. It's just plain silliness.

[tropo]

Very obviously, you confuse performance and intensity. There's no doubt that performance is affected by heat and humidity but what you seem to fail to understand is that it doesn't have to mean you work less even though you might be lifting less.

I'm not the slightest bit confused about any of this but clearly you are. I know exactly how heat diminishes work and performance and you will not be able to work at the same level in higher temperatures.

The only thing you're going to do more of in hot weather is sweat more and rest more. Your heart rate will go higher and you'll suffer heat stress. When you pick up weights you're performing work, which raises the temperature of your muscles (by converting chemical energy to heat energy) and your body temperature will rise. It will be difficult to perform a high workload in ambient temperatures which approach the body temperature of 37C. When the humidity is high you'll be in even more trouble as you won't be able to lower body heat efficiently through perspiration.

Please stop whinging about other people being silly. We're discussing this in a civil manner - there's no need to start insulting everyone.

Edited January 3, 2013 by tropo

[pooperscooper]

Level of intensity is in large part dictated by your heart rate... If two people that have the same maximum heart rate are working at 185, they are working at the same intensity regardless of how much they lift or how fast they run. Even truer for an individual... Even if you lift less or run slower in the heat, you will achieve similar performance when you go back to a lower temperature as long as you are able to perform the same workout in length and intensity. I and many other competing athletes have observed this on many occasions. The biggest challenge comes during the adaptation period when you go from cooler to hotter as it is initially difficult to maintain that level. It takes about 2-3 weeks to become comfortable with it.

You will also perform better in the heat since your body adapts to it. If you live and compete in SE ASIA which is the case for me in the winter months, it makes a lot more sense to work out in the temperature you will be competing in and not under air con. If all you care is to look at yourself in the mirror and try to impress the noobs then I guess air con is the way to go.

[robblok]

Level of intensity is in large part dictated by your heart rate... If two people that have the same maximum heart rate are working at 185, they are working at the same intensity regardless of how much they lift or how fast they run. Even truer for an individual... Even if you lift less or run slower in the heat, you will achieve similar performance when you go back to a lower temperature as long as you are able to perform the same workout in length and intensity. I and many other competing athletes have observed this on many occasions. The biggest challenge comes during the adaptation period when you go from cooler to hotter as it is initially difficult to maintain that level. It takes about 2-3 weeks to become comfortable with it.

You will also perform better in the heat since your body adapts to it. If you live and compete in SE ASIA which is the case for me in the winter months, it makes a lot more sense to work out in the temperature you will be competing in and not under air con. If all you care is to look at yourself in the mirror and try to impress the noobs then I guess air con is the way to go.

Your not a real nice person are you, putting one sport down just because you don't like it. I could do the same with your chosen sport if i wanted but i stay above that level.

In a gym its mostly about weights and machines, heart rate does not come to play there as a limiting factor. This is only for endurance part of the game, the cardio part. I think you will agree that in a gym people who do cardio as long as the weights are a minority so in a gym we talk about weight training. But even for cardio its easier to workout when its cooler. Your heartrate is an indication, but your performance is too. If your heartrate is 150 for 10 min and you do 2 km or your heart-rate is 150 and you do 2.2km. then the latter workout was your better one.

No matter how you look at it heath influences performance, its silly to get used to heat as it lowers your performance only if you are going to compete in an event that requires it it matters, guess what that is lower as 1% of the gym population all the others benefit from less heat.

[pooperscooper]

First of all...nice guys finish last:-)

Second of all, every gym has a different clientele...some cater more to powerlifters, bodybuilders, martial arts type and the general population you talk about tends to do a lot more cardio than weights particularly in those big chain gyms.

I agree that most gym should be air-conditioned since the general population will find it more palatable than the opposite. It doesn't mean that there isn't a place and a need for something different. If your assumption was true then a place with no air con would go out of business.

What I find offensive is for certain people to make claims that one can't workout at the same intensity in the heat and insinuate that some of us don't know better.

You certainly highlight your ignorance between intensity and performance in your little example. You have performed equally valid workouts if you run at 185 for 10 minutes under different conditions. It may have been a hill that slowed you down, running on sand or heat but your intensity was the same. If you return to ideal conditions, your performance will not change or decrease which is what some of you suggest would happen by working out in the heat. Furthermore there's a mental toughness that comes with working out under more difficult conditions and that is also a crucial part of performance.

I don't necessarily make judgments on people that make a choice to work out under easier conditions. I certainly often do it however there are valid reasons to choose not to and it doesn't make it any less effective far from it.

Edited January 4, 2013 by pooperscooper

[robblok]

First of all every gym has a different clientele...some cater more to powerlifters, bodybuilders, martial arts type and the general population you talk about tends to do a lot more cardio than weights particularly in those big chain gyms.

I agree that most gym should be air-conditioned since the general population will find it more palatable than the opposite.

What I find offensive is for certain people to make claims that one can't workout at the same intensity in the heat and insinuate that some of us don't know better.

You certainly highlight your ignorance between intensity and performance in your little example. You have performed equally valid workouts if you run at 185 for 10 minutes under different conditions. It may have been a hill that slowed you down, running on sand or heat but your intensity was the same. If you return to ideal conditions, your performance will not change or decrease which is what some of you suggest would happen by working out in the heat. Furthermore there's a mental toughness that comes with working out under more difficult conditions and that is also a crucial part of performance.

I don't necessarily make judgments on people that make a choice to work out under easier conditions. I certainly often do it however there are valid reasons to choose not to and it doesn't make it any less effective far from it.

You display your ignorance too, why would i give an example to demonstrate things about heat and then you start talking about downhill, though it is quite clear its all about heat so that would be the only other variable (also i don't see many people going downhill in a gym)

I would say your assessment about the clientele of gyms like Tony's is wrong (unless you think weights are barbells and dumbbells only i include the machines too non cardio ones).

I also make the claim you cant workout at the same intensity with (a lot higher) heat, if this was not true why won't they do football / tennis and other matches in hot places during the peak of the day but schedule them in mornings or evenings. I think its a given that you don't want to admit. Do you want me to quote some scientific studies too ?

http://www.jappl.org/content/86/3/1032.short

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1440244000800808

http://adisonline.com/sportsmedicine/Abstract/2006/36080/Cooling_Athletes_before_Competition_in_the_Heat_.4.aspx

[pooperscooper]

Once again you confuse intensity and performance... A match is all about performance so it would be stupid to schedule it when athletes will not perform as well.

Athletes that need to perform under certain conditions need to train under these conditions, that's a very simple rule. We're in SE Asia, these are the conditions so if you are an athete, you absolutely need to train in the heat on regular occasions. It's that simple...

As I said, it's fine to offer air con but there's also a need and a reason to offer an alternative.

Let's try to make it simple for you... You run on a treadmill and you set the incline at 5%, you only achieve 2km instead of the usual 2.4km you usually do in the same amount of time. Does it mean your workout was less intense or valid?

The reality is that the intensity of the workout is simply based on doing the best you can do under particular conditions. Whether you improve or not or have a good workout doesn't depend on the performance(how heavy you lifted or how fast you ran), it is dictated by the intensity of your workout. One of the best ways to measure that is to use your heart rate and it can also be done during weight training. It's particularly helpful in identifying proper recovery between sets.

[robblok]

Once again you confuse intensity and performance... A match is all about performance so it would be stupid to schedule it when athletes will not perform as well.

Athletes that need to perform under certain conditions need to train under these conditions, that's a very simple rule. We're in SE Asia, these are the conditions so if you are an athete, you absolutely need to train in the heat on regular occasions. It's that simple...

As I said, it's fine to offer air con but there's also a need and a reason to offer an alternative.

Let's try to make it simple for you... You run on a treadmill and you set the incline at 5%, you only achieve 2km instead of the usual 2.4km you usually do in the same amount of time. Does it mean your workout was less intense or valid?

The reality is that the intensity of the workout is simply based on doing the best you can do under particular conditions. Whether you improve or not or have a good workout doesn't depend on the performance(how heavy you lifted or how fast you ran), it is dictated by the intensity of your workout. One of the best ways to measure that is to use your heart rate and it can also be done during weight training. It's particularly helpful in identifying proper recovery between sets.

Duh i made it simple for you but you ignore scientific research, performance is not different from intensity. If you want to work out a muscle to the max you don't want heat to be the limiting factor, you want the muscle be the factor that limits it else you train to work under heat and not work the muscle out to its fullest.

You are talking about training for adaption to heat not training your muscles, different story.

And come on how stupid do you think i am, if you run on an incline it will be harder then running flat and it will be hard to compare the two results. I am sure there are formula's for that, in this case your changing something else as heat.

Fact remains you work your muscles less during heat because your body cant cool enough, you might perceive the intensity as the same but it is not. You are just adapting to heat (trying too)

Lets make it real simple, cold day you can do 2 km in your 10 minutes, warm day you do 1,5 km in your 10 minutes. Result you burn less calories, and work your muscles out less but work on adaption to heat. If that is your goal sure so be it but its not the goal of the majority. They want to loose weight or gain muscle and so calories are important.

[Tolley]

It is pretty simple really if you train in hot and humid conditions you risk heat exhaustion and or heat stroke.

The only people who really want to train in such conditions would be athletes preparing for some sort of competition under the same condtions.

The rest of us ie 99 percent of people training prefer to train under conditions where we are not putting our bodies under so much heat stress so we can perform at our maximum and not risk heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

I hope that is clear enough.

[robblok]

It is pretty simple really if you train in hot and humid conditions you risk heat exhaustion and or heat stroke.

The only people who really want to train in such conditions would be athletes preparing for some sort of competition under the same condtions.

The rest of us ie 99 percent of people training prefer to train under conditions where we are not putting our bodies under so much heat stress so we can perform at our maximum and not risk heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

I hope that is clear enough.

For me that has always been clear, thank god i control the temperature in my gym

[pooperscooper]

I

Duh i made it simple for you but you ignore scientific research, performance is not different from intensity.

There is really no point trying to have a discussion with someone that says something like this. It's like saying the outcome means the same thing as the process.

Enjoy your cool air, some of us are actually athletes concerned about actually performing in competitions and not just in front of a mirror

[OMGImInPattaya]

It is pretty simple really if you train in hot and humid conditions you risk heat exhaustion and or heat stroke.

The only people who really want to train in such conditions would be athletes preparing for some sort of competition under the same condtions.

The rest of us ie 99 percent of people training prefer to train under conditions where we are not putting our bodies under so much heat stress so we can perform at our maximum and not risk heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

I hope that is clear enough.

Who said training in a "hot and humid" gym environment is ideal? Some us just don't want to freeze our asses off when we're training and a little sweat feels good during a workout.

[robblok]

I

Duh i made it simple for you but you ignore scientific research, performance is not different from intensity.

There is really no point trying to have a discussion with someone that says something like this. It's like saying the outcome means the same thing as the process.

Enjoy your cool air, some of us are actually athletes concerned about actually performing in competitions and not just in front of a mirror

You make me laugh, you seem to have a problem with people who are in shape with some muscle. I have not even taken a jab at you but you seem to have to it sounds like your insecure.

If i tie your shoelaces together im sure you have a real intensive workout too as its hard and difficult to run. But your not doing your muscles any favor, same as with heat adaptation. Like other posters pointed out 99% of the people don't go for heat adaptation or compete.

My points are simple, to workout good you make sure that heat is not a limiting factor, this way you burn the most calories and work your muscle out the best.

You are going on and on about heat adaptation while most people are concerned about either burning calories and having a good run and muscle.. not heat adaptation.

[robblok]

It is pretty simple really if you train in hot and humid conditions you risk heat exhaustion and or heat stroke.

The only people who really want to train in such conditions would be athletes preparing for some sort of competition under the same condtions.

The rest of us ie 99 percent of people training prefer to train under conditions where we are not putting our bodies under so much heat stress so we can perform at our maximum and not risk heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

I hope that is clear enough.

Who said training in a "hot and humid" gym environment is ideal? Some us just don't want to freeze our asses off when we're training and a little sweat feels good during a workout.

A little sweat, i always sweat during a workout.. but there is a difference between a little sweat and being limited by heat.

[Tolley]

It is pretty simple really if you train in hot and humid conditions you risk heat exhaustion and or heat stroke.

The only people who really want to train in such conditions would be athletes preparing for some sort of competition under the same condtions.

The rest of us ie 99 percent of people training prefer to train under conditions where we are not putting our bodies under so much heat stress so we can perform at our maximum and not risk heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

I hope that is clear enough.

Who said training in a "hot and humid" gym environment is ideal? Some us just don't want to freeze our asses off when we're training and a little sweat feels good during a workout.

I sweat quite enough with the ac on thanks very much.

Maybe you need to train a littel harder if you are not sweating with the ac on?

[robblok]

Just to add, i don't like freezing my nuts of either, but in general that wont happen not even with the aircon on. I set my aircon at 24 and i still sweat a lot, i do make sure i wont sit directly under the path of the cold air during my breaks.

But i am pretty sure its hard working out if its 30 degrees in your gym.

[poanoi]

Anyway i saw a tony's promotion that you can get a lifetime membership for 16.000 baht,

but only on the 16th of january.

And to you illiterate bitches, place the dumbbells back on the rack where it belong,

60 lbs dumbbells on the 60 lbs station, etc, not anywhere else

[OMGImInPattaya]

Anyway i saw a tony's promotion that you can get a lifetime membership for 16.000 baht,

but only on the 16th of january.

And to you illiterate bitches, place the dumbbells back on the rack where it belong,

60 lbs dumbbells on the 60 lbs station, etc, not anywhere else

Best to have your rant translated and posted in thai and Russian, they seem to be the biggest offensers at my gym. Most westerners are pretty good when it comes to gym etiquette.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Just to add, i don't like freezing my nuts of either, but in general that wont happen not even with the aircon on. I set my aircon at 24 and i still sweat a lot, i do make sure i wont sit directly under the path of the cold air during my breaks.

But i am pretty sure its hard working out if its 30 degrees in your gym.

Oic, your one of those guys who turns down the aircon down to 22 when you enter a home or a hotel room; others of us actually like the tropics and 26-28 is fine for us. Living in the tropics must really suck for you

[Chivas]

Actually paying for a "lifetime" membership of anything in Pattaya seems somewhat shortsighted..........!

Here today gone tomorrow......

[robblok]

Just to add, i don't like freezing my nuts of either, but in general that wont happen not even with the aircon on. I set my aircon at 24 and i still sweat a lot, i do make sure i wont sit directly under the path of the cold air during my breaks.

But i am pretty sure its hard working out if its 30 degrees in your gym.

Oic, your one of those guys who turns down the aircon down to 22 when you enter a home or a hotel room; others of us actually like the tropics and 26-28 is fine for us. Living in the tropics must really suck for you

Nope actually, i love the tropics and sit under a fan not aircon during the day. I only use the aircon at night or when i workout, as i got a home gym i control the how high i set the aircon. I love the heat, just not for working out or normal work on the house (mending a fence or so)

[OMGImInPattaya]

Actually paying for a "lifetime" membership of anything in Pattaya seems somewhat shortsighted..........!

Here today gone tomorrow......

Or better yet...gone in an hour

[tropo]

If all you care is to look at yourself in the mirror and try to impress the noobs then I guess air con is the way to go.

Here you go again. Stop being a jackass. I'm reasonably happy when I look in the mirror. What do you see?

[tropo]

Who said training in a "hot and humid" gym environment is ideal? Some us just don't want to freeze our asses off when we're training and a little sweat feels good during a workout.

Are you serious? Where are you going to freeze your ass off in a gym in Pattaya? Tony's is in the high 20's during the day even this time of year with the aircon on. There's no gym running cold temperatures in Pattaya.

It's easy to warm up in a cool gym. Either put some clothes on or work harder. Cooling down in a hot gym is not possible. Your performance will suffer.

Edited January 4, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

It is pretty simple really if you train in hot and humid conditions you risk heat exhaustion and or heat stroke.

The only people who really want to train in such conditions would be athletes preparing for some sort of competition under the same condtions.

The rest of us ie 99 percent of people training prefer to train under conditions where we are not putting our bodies under so much heat stress so we can perform at our maximum and not risk heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

I hope that is clear enough.

It couldn't be any clearer. Pooperscooper has never tried a 2 hour weight session in 30C heat. Pooperscooper lives in a cold climate and trains in heat for fun. He doesn't have to deal with heat all year round like many of us do. I haven't had a cool break for many years.

Another factor he fails to consider is that a heavier muscular guy pushing heavier weights will be producing a lot more heat energy. It's basic physiques. It also takes longer for heat to dissipate from a larger guy with more muscle as he will have a much thicker core. Is it any coincidence that natives of tropical climates are small and lean?

Pooperscooper probably weighs about 50kg and will never understand the difference.

[tropo]

It is pretty simple really if you train in hot and humid conditions you risk heat exhaustion and or heat stroke.

The only people who really want to train in such conditions would be athletes preparing for some sort of competition under the same condtions.

The rest of us ie 99 percent of people training prefer to train under conditions where we are not putting our bodies under so much heat stress so we can perform at our maximum and not risk heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

I hope that is clear enough.

Who said training in a "hot and humid" gym environment is ideal? Some us just don't want to freeze our asses off when we're training and a little sweat feels good during a workout.

I sweat quite enough with the ac on thanks very much.

Maybe you need to train a littel harder if you are not sweating with the ac on?

I could wring out my shirt after a workout at California Wow where the temperature was in the low 20's.... but I could work out much harder and faster...and I'd feel much fresher when I got home. The difference to performance is astounding.

Edited January 4, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

Just to add, i don't like freezing my nuts of either, but in general that wont happen not even with the aircon on. I set my aircon at 24 and i still sweat a lot, i do make sure i wont sit directly under the path of the cold air during my breaks.

But i am pretty sure its hard working out if its 30 degrees in your gym.

Oic, your one of those guys who turns down the aircon down to 22 when you enter a home or a hotel room; others of us actually like the tropics and 26-28 is fine for us. Living in the tropics must really suck for you

I see people like you everyday at Tony's. They sit playing with their cellphones in between sets taking very long breaks and complain about the aircon.

[jmo]

pooperscoopers view about his own personal needs might make sense for his specific case. However I don't understand how he can think his personal view can be in any way generalized to apply at large.

There are almost no people in here that are training for any competition that involves lifting weights in high temperatures. Some people are training for competitiong events that involve running in high temperatures, but I am not sure there are that many of them in the gyms in Soi Buakhao. Some of these people might out there running outdoors instead.

If I would guess 95% of the people that use the gyms are in there to gain muscle mass, to lose fat or to improve their general endurance. Most of these people are not professional athletes and yes, big percentage of them is in it because on how it makes them look in the mirror. If anybody wants to use any insulting words to describe them, I find that appalling.

Most of the people in the gyms are in a danger of losing interest in going there and doing something else instead. High temperature has pretty much only one effect on them. It makes them to stay at home. I am quite sure Tony understands this when he is planning the business case for the lifetime memberships.

The number of people that do not suffer negative effects because of the high temperature is really, really small. It might be pooperscooper and perhaps 2 other persons out there.

Edited January 4, 2013 by jmo

[Forkinhades]

Just read this thread from start to finish, and it has certainly brightened up my evening.

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[tropo]

Just read this thread from start to finish, and it has certainly brightened up my evening.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I'm glad we could be of service.