Bolt Cutters Or Else A Grinder?

[libya 115]

Cast your minds back to 1997: I was on a holiday in Pattaya; staying on Soi 8; I never slept for three weeks: work that one out! Then a fire in a Jomtien hotel burnt 78 persons to a crisp; 'a dental-records job': in human-remains recognization parlance. The fire escapes were padlocked!!!!!

I live atop a four storey luxury apartment block off Soi Bongkot (good name that; a lot of 'Bong activity here!) in Pattaya: However the fire escapes are locked. Padlocked. Nice and secure, to deter thieves etc.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I spoke to the landlord; and he said (his face was a kaleidoscope of conflicting emotion)...............................................

"O.K. fair point, I have lost the keys," (I have been here nearly five years now) " Go and break the lock, buy a new one, with spares, and take one for yourself and your G.F."

So; What is the best way to break a rather tasty looking padlock? Grinder or Bolt Cutters? I am sure that there are other methods; can any soul suggest a plan of action?

Khawp Jai Lai Lai Deu.

[Ulysses G.]

I have seen pro locksmiths break medium sized padlocks a number of times and they usually drill into the side of the lock and it takes a good amount of time.

I don't think that you will be able to do it yourself.

[meom]

Depends a bit on the type of padlock. If it's your average run of the mill padlock normally brute force will break it by putting for example a piece of pipe in the eye and using the pipe as a wedge.

If it's something more sophisticated like Masters you might need a torch

[chownah]

Don't know if you can find one in Thailand but there exists a hefty hacksaw blade with diamond dust on the cutting edge.....you can saw through padlocks very easily with these....you can even cut through glass bottles!!!! Grinder should work though and no doubt easier to find. I think that I would install a new padlock with the hasp being long enough that I could put a steel bar in and pry it off....then I'd buy a steel bar suitable for the task and keep in in the back of my closet....that way if the key is lost or the lock rusts shut you can still remove it from the door in an instant if the need should arise....

Edited February 2, 2006 by chownah

[bkkmadness]

So your fire escape is padlocked up, and the solution your happy with is to buy a new padlock and keep a spare set up keys for it?

I know it isn't really your business, but what about all the other residents there? If they all burn to a crisp it'll be your padlock that keeps them in this time.

And what if you misplace the key, lose them at that vital moment when you desperatley need to get out of the room coz the place is burning down?

You need to demand that padlock is taken off the fire escape, I'm sure a few more residents in the building with give you some backing on that. They have tenants meetings at your place?

If he still refuses to do it, I would just go and cut that padlock off there, and if he put another one on there that would be taken off as well.

It's illegal and extremely dangerous what he has done, don't become part of that by replacing the padlock with a new one.

As an afterthought, what about the firedoor locks that they have whiuch can be opened easily from the inside but not from the outside.

[p_brownstone]

Forget about trying to cut the Padlock - the “U” clasp is usually made of hardened steel and will resist the best efforts of anyone with a Bolt-Cutter or hacksaw for quite a while.

By FAR the simplest and quickest way is to cut through the hasp / hinge on the door itself, (the plates with holes through which the Padlock is locked), just cut the whole thing off. Invariably they are made of mild steel which can be cut through in less than a minute with a decent hacksaw. You can then get a local metalwork shop to manufacture a replacement set and weld it onto the stubs left after your "surgery".

It never ceases to amaze me that I see complex, expensive and usually imported Padlocks etc. on buildings all over the place here in Thailand but no-one ever considers that they are locked into cheap locally made "Lek Dat" (metal security screens).

Patrick

[libya 115]

Thanks for all the swift response to this one:

BKKmadness: good points; However I make an important point here, ideally all fourth floor residents would be issued with a key. However I am a trustworthy, long term resident and British, not a dishonest, low-life, who from time to time are resident on my floor.

Keys could not be issued to all. I like the idea of a one way fire door; but it would be at my own expense.

The key idea seems good to me.

What do you think?

[bkkmadness]

Thanks for all the swift response to this one:

BKKmadness: good points; However I make an important point here, ideally all fourth floor residents would be issued with a key. However I am a trustworthy, long term resident and British, not a dishonest, low-life, who from time to time are resident on my floor.

Keys could not be issued to all. I like the idea of a one way fire door; but it would be at my own expense.

The key idea seems good to me.

What do you think?

I don't see what being trustworthy has to do with it, I was suggesting that if you had one key and was say just not at the appartment at the time then people would be danger.

Even if all residents were issued a key that would not be an acceptable solution in my books.

Why would a firedoor be at your own expense, surely the maintenace money that goes to your condo that pays for repairs and cleaners and all that could be used? The condo building will have a budget for these things but of course more money in the pocket for them if they can get you to fork out.

It would be at your expense because they don't want to pay and take that responsibilty which is theirs and that is to keep the residents there safe, from theft, fires, whatever.

Do not get talked into paying for something that is for all the residents safety because the condo will not, thats ridiculous.

Go and cut that padlock off and do not replace it. If asked about it by the manager or a new one is placed on then go and ask the manager to take it off or contact the relevant authorities and they will come and do it for you.

Despite what many people think, you do have rights in this country and there are laws that back those rights up. A fire escape is one of them, don't be denied it by an incompetent manager.

In fact I'd be taking this above the manager as he has offered no acceptable solution.

[GuestHouse]

I take this issue of fire safety very seriously and would suggest the fist thing you do when moving into a multiple occupation building is install smoke alarms in all your rooms.

I'd then get myself a means of breaking locks, be-it a crowbar or a heavy mallet.

We had a townhouse in Narklua, that upon inspection of the roof space, turned out to be in a single terrace fire trap, a fire in one building would have without doubt poured smoke along the whole terrace (Remember here that Thai furnature materials are the old style banned elsewhere because they are highly flammable and give off extremely toxic fumes)- Also, given the use of lofts as storage space, fire would have spread the same route.

Added to that the bars on all the windows, it was a death trap in the making.

"Thailand Safe" - There's an example of a hidden safety hazard that just doesn't show on the radar.

We installed smoke detectors in all rooms, including the loft, replaced the Electrical Fuses with modern Circuit Breakers and bought 'Break-out tools' which we kept in each room.

Remember, the time to think about a fire is not when you have a fire.... it's far too late by then

[Chopper]

Thanks for all the swift response to this one:

BKKmadness: good points; However I make an important point here, ideally all fourth floor residents would be issued with a key. However I am a trustworthy, long term resident and British, not a dishonest, low-life, who from time to time are resident on my floor.

Keys could not be issued to all. I like the idea of a one way fire door; but it would be at my own expense.

The key idea seems good to me.

What do you think?

Not distributing keys to all the other residents on the floor is adding fuel to the fire. (No pun intended). What if there is a fire on the first few floors and the only escape route for whatever reason becomes the fourth floor fire exit. Do you really want to carry that responsibility? I know I wouldn't.

Are you sure you cannot coerce your landlord into changing the door too a proper fire door as 'bkkmadness' suggested.

Failing that if you are able to remove the padlock, fit a bolt lock on the inside that does not require a key. Perhaps stick an extra lock on your own door for peace of mind.

[chownah]

I agree with Bkkmadness 200%. Imagine: A fire....people on your floor die....the detective says, " why didn't they leave via the fire exit?".....the manager says, "because Libya 115 put a padlock on the door." Doesn't sound so good.

[Curt]

Although hardened padlocks are tough on saws, files and grinders, large bolt cutter will snap the shackle like a twig!

Edited February 2, 2006 by Curt

[bkkmadness]

I agree with Bkkmadness 200%. Imagine: A fire....people on your floor die....the detective says, " why didn't they leave via the fire exit?".....the manager says, "because Libya 115 put a padlock on the door." Doesn't sound so good.

And thats a great point, whats the legal implications of this when you put a new padlock on the door? Will you find yourself up on a multiple manslaughter charge if people die in a fire there?

[Heng]

Get a new padlock and 50+ spare keys. Put them under all the pots, plants, and doormats you can find in your building.

That said, the crew we get to do renovations have a mean set of giant bolt cutters, but usually use it in combination with the wedge and hammer method mentioned above. Haven't run into a padlock yet that couldn't be broken.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Heng

[Johpa]

Most padlocks found in Thailand are usually fairly simply devices that most competant locksmiths can pick with ease at an affordable cost. And most are of a quality that a decent crowbar can snap them apart given some solid leverage. And as others have mentioned, an industrial strength bolt cutter should make quick work of it.

[bkkmadness]

Get a new padlock and 50+ spare keys. Put them under all the pots, plants, and doormats you can find in your building.

Coz everybody loves a game of 'hunt the thimble' in an inferno.

I can't believe even with the solution offered in hand that your manager has no one, not a handy man that can come and remove the padlock for you. Who does the repairs at your place, or are they just not done?

Its enough of a bloody cheek that he wants you to buy a new padlock to lock the residents only means of escape in a fire, let alone making you do the work as well.

Why are you standing for this ridiculous, piss taking, extremely dangerous and illegal action taken by the manager of a building you pay rent in?

[libya 115]

Get a new padlock and 50+ spare keys. Put them under all the pots, plants, and doormats you can find in your building.

Coz everybody loves a game of 'hunt the thimble' in an inferno.

I can't believe even with the solution offered in hand that your manager has no one, not a handy man that can come and remove the padlock for you. Who does the repairs at your place, or are they just not done?

Its enough of a bloody cheek that he wants you to buy a new padlock to lock the residents only means of escape in a fire, let alone making you do the work as well.

Why are you standing for this ridiculous, piss taking, extremely dangerous and illegal action taken by the manager of a building you pay rent in?

Calm down, BKK madness; this is Thailand: There are no laws or rules; Don't be surprised if I burn to death in a 'death-trap': I just want to improve the situation. I am not some sort of vexatious litigant: I just want peace of mind for my GF whilst I am away earning cash for the sweet life. Plus there are a few farangs here, on my floor level that I am good friends with: Hi Gary, Hi, Lionel!

I am happy with the suggestions: I will get a new lock and distribute the keys (via my GF because she speaks the lingo) to all residents on my floor. I really can't do better than that.

My original post was about breaking the lock. Not the fire safety record of the L.O.S..... I expect that to be poor, due to the opportunist crime and the 'kali wali' mentality.

Khawp jai lai lai deu.

[bkkmadness]

Calm down, BKK madness; this is Thailand: There are no laws or rules; Don't be surprised if I burn to death in a 'death-trap': I just want to improve the situation. I am not some sort of vexatious litigant: I just want peace of mind for my GF whilst I am away earning cash for the sweet life. Plus there are a few farangs here, on my floor level that I am good friends with: Hi Gary, Hi, Lionel!

Ok, I was getting a bit animated maybe but it has to be said, its that TOT attitude in Thailand that many farang have that annoys the he11 out of me.

There are plenty of laws and rules in this country regarding fire safety, often broken hence the 1997 incident you mentioned in your first post. But they are only broken because they can be, and because people like you let them be. I hope you get the peace of mind knowing that your gf lives in a firetrap because you haven't the confidence and know how to sort out the situation.

I also hope your happy being put to work by the lazy manager of the place you live in and pay rent on, whilst your at it, the pot plants in the lobby need a good watering and the floors could do with a mop over.

End of the day, leaving out all the Fire escape rules and stuff, the easiet way to break the padlock is this:

Get the manager of the condo block who is a staff member who's wages are partially paid by you and works for the residents of your condo building to get off his lazy arse, call the maintenance man and get him to break the padlock.

I just am in total disbelief that not only are you willing to do work on your condo that you are willing to pay for it as well just because your've been told to. They'll be asking you to sort out the broken windows next.

Once again another farang is walked over by a Thai taking the piss.

Edited February 2, 2006 by bkkmadness

[Tingnongnoi]

I also hope your happy being put to work by the lazy manager of the place you live in and pay rent on, whilst your at it, the pot plants in the lobby need a good watering and the floors could do with a mop over.

whilst providing the manager with a convenient get out clause if heaven forbid there was a fire and people couldn't escape

"It wasn't me honest it was that Farang on the 4th floor that locked the door"

[bkkmadness]

In fact the easiet way would be to have your GF call the fire authorities, explain the situation and give them the address of the condo. They'll visit and remove the offending padlock, or force the manager to remove it, problem solved, and your GF will be a lot safer and it will have cost you nothing.

Thats why these rules, laws and authorities are there.

[daleyboy]

Thanks for all the swift response to this one:

BKKmadness: good points; However I make an important point here, ideally all fourth floor residents would be issued with a key. However I am a trustworthy, long term resident and British, not a dishonest, low-life, who from time to time are resident on my floor.

Keys could not be issued to all. I like the idea of a one way fire door; but it would be at my own expense.

The key idea seems good to me.

What do you think?

Why dont you just cut the padlock off with a grinder and then buy two big bolt type locks like this....

And then you will have security from the inside and no danger of them being a trap hazzard in case of a fire. Also if your really worried buy a fire extingisher and have that by your door just in case.

[Chopper]

Why dont you just cut the padlock off with a grinder and then buy two big bolt type locks like this....

And then you will have security from the inside and no danger of them being a trap hazzard in case of a fire. Also if your really worried buy a fire extingisher and have that by your door just in case.

That is precisely what I had in mind.

[bkkmadness]

Excellent solution, now just get the manager to buy it and fix it in.

[daleyboy]

Excellent solution, now just get the manager to buy it and fix it in.

Even if the manager wont pay, i am sure it isnt a very costly option to buy these and fit them yourself, only take 30 minutes to do

[Mighty Mouse]

In fact the easiet way would be to have your GF call the fire authorities, explain the situation and give them the address of the condo. They'll visit and remove the offending padlock, or force the manager to remove it, problem solved, and your GF will be a lot safer and it will have cost you nothing.

Thats why these rules, laws and authorities are there.

Exactly right.

I remember that fire at Jomptien and immediately following it, I remember the pressure that was placed on all Pattaya hotel managers to bring their establishments into line with the fire regulations.

The hotel that I was staying in at the time upgraded the locks on their fire escape doors. They put in self closing doors that could be easily opened from the inside. The doors still retained security from outside intruders.

As Bkkmadness has wisely stated, the authorities should be informed immediately. If they fail to act promptly, go to a higher authority until somebody does act and/or write to Pattaya Mail and have them print a story on the situation.

It's too late to act once the joint catches fire.

[bkkmadness]

It's too late to act once the joint catches fire.

Important anti drug message in there as well.

OK, OK, just lightening my posts in this thread.

[chownah]

I guess if none of the many good options offered here seems do-able to you then at least you might consider having a steel bar or pipe in the back of your closet to pry the lock off in an emergency.

[Noel]

Whilst there are some good practical solutions put forward above, my take is that if the OP makes any alteration to the locking mechanism then he will be party to breaching regulations and could be deemed liable in the event of a tragedy.

Moreover, a sliding bolt could get stuck or difficult to open; there is also the panic of people rushing to get out to consider.

There should be no lock there, period.

Consulting the proper authorities to ensure the building owner's compliance with the regulations has to be the only way.

[stumonster]

Although hardened padlocks are tough on saws, files and grinders, large bolt cutter will snap the shackle like a twig!

they are not known as the 4 foot masterkey for nothing.

when manufacturing a sitebox you normally have a short section of 4 inch tube welded in place so a boltcutter cannot be manouvered in position.

[Chopper]

Whilst there are some good practical solutions put forward above, my take is that if the OP makes any alteration to the locking mechanism then he will be party to breaching regulations and could be deemed liable in the event of a tragedy.

Moreover, a sliding bolt could get stuck or difficult to open; there is also the panic of people rushing to get out to consider.

There should be no lock there, period.

A very astute observation.

Consulting the proper authorities to ensure the building owner's compliance with the regulations has to be the only way.

On reflection the most appropriate response. Not to take anything away from the other ideas proffered though.