Is Being Fat A Choice (If There Is No Underlying Medical Reason)

[Tolley]

About the foods that are supposed to be healthy like pomegranates ect. There are claims for practically any fruit or veggy to have benefits. I sometimes wonder how much benefits something really has. Are we talking 10% 50% ect. Same like the vitamins im taking. I take them just in case. But one has to wonder sometimes about all the claims about all the stuff we buy.

Pomegranates are especially important for men given that so many men develop prostate problems as they get older.

THere has been a lot of research on the health benefits of pomegranates for men with prostate conditions and the findings are very positive.

But you shouldnt expect some magic elixir but rather a more subtle improvement as you get similarly with many vitamins.

Im not really expecting magical elixirs, but sometimes its nice to see if something works or not. Vitamins, never seen real improvements, same with fish oil, protein.. same thing. But its all because the changes are so small. But if for instance extra protein gives you 15 grams of muscle instead of 13 gram... (totally stupid example) but then its almost impossible to measure.

At least with lifting weight or doing cardio you can see progression

You could stop taking all supplements for a few months and monitor the results and see if you feel any different. I probably spend around 60k baht a year on supplements and I certainly wouldnt spend the money if I didnt think I needed them.

[robblok]

About the foods that are supposed to be healthy like pomegranates ect. There are claims for practically any fruit or veggy to have benefits. I sometimes wonder how much benefits something really has. Are we talking 10% 50% ect. Same like the vitamins im taking. I take them just in case. But one has to wonder sometimes about all the claims about all the stuff we buy.

Pomegranates are especially important for men given that so many men develop prostate problems as they get older.

THere has been a lot of research on the health benefits of pomegranates for men with prostate conditions and the findings are very positive.

But you shouldnt expect some magic elixir but rather a more subtle improvement as you get similarly with many vitamins.

Im not really expecting magical elixirs, but sometimes its nice to see if something works or not. Vitamins, never seen real improvements, same with fish oil, protein.. same thing. But its all because the changes are so small. But if for instance extra protein gives you 15 grams of muscle instead of 13 gram... (totally stupid example) but then its almost impossible to measure.

At least with lifting weight or doing cardio you can see progression

You could stop taking all supplements for a few months and monitor the results and see if you feel any different. I probably spend around 60k baht a year on supplements and I certainly wouldnt spend the money if I didnt think I needed them.

Actually i stopped taking pre workouts drinks for a while. Then after that they work again.

The fishoil, no need to stop i don't expect miracles from that only improved blood values (cholesterol and such). Actually i don't take that many supplements.

-fish oil caps that i buy in the USA on ebay, great deals

-Vitamins from Gaspari labs anvarite (expensive but not excessive)

- Protein powder 750bt a kg, and actually just a scoop a day mixed with my yoghurt. I think i get enough protein.

Sometimes pre workout drinks. But i'm steering a bit away from that because you have to cycle it on and off to feel it. Else you get used to it.

Its not that i don't think it does not work, its more that i don't know how much it will work. I do use cafeine too, bought a kg of caffeine a while back and just put it in caps. I use that for training or work at times. (i don't drink coffee, don't like the taste)

[tropo]

I am 68 and fat because I am happy that way.

I never force my lifestyle or opinions onto other people because I am not made that way.

I know I can loose weight if I want to and I also know that at sometime in the future that I will die.

I would rather and I will die a happy person instead of being miserable knowing that I would just love to eat a ........... whatever but if I do I may put on 100 grams and feel that my life has been cut short by 20 minutes.

I have too many things I want to do than worry what someone who has never met me thinks about me.

I would rather die fat, happy and have a great life than watch everything I eat and see all my friends and family die around me.

That must be worth at least 3 baht rather than the normal 50 satang.

I knew I was right on the money when I called Build766 out on his "I'm happy to be fat" comments.

He had a dream to get down to 100kg. What a difference a year made.

Here's one of his posts from last year:

"Posted 2011-02-02 15:33:12

That is interesting as I am too fat also.

The interesting bit is that I have 10 or so pomelo trees that are bursting with the dam_n things.

I went up to 118.7 kg and last week cut out all bread (home made by me) and butter.

I now eat 1/2 a melon and a couple of bananas for breakfast, a big bowl salad of cabbage, lettuce, onions, garlic, carrot and other veges as and when I find them plus 2 boiled eggs and a Thai Italian oil dressing and some balsamic vinegar.

Fruit for a snack if I get hungry.

I drink Earl Grey tea with no milk or sugar, water, maybe one 3 in one coffee with a little milk a day and one Ovaltine 3 in 1 before I go to bed.

In the evening my wife cooks me a normal sort of meal and I drink usually 3 Sang Som and sodas during the evening.

I have lost about 3 kg in the last 9 days and my dream is to get down to around 100kg and stay close to it.

I used to be 125 kg and got down to 106 a couple of years ago before I retire"

Edited November 23, 2012 by tropo

[laislica]

I am 68 and fat because I am happy that way.

I never force my lifestyle or opinions onto other people because I am not made that way.

I know I can loose weight if I want to and I also know that at sometime in the future that I will die.

I would rather and I will die a happy person instead of being miserable knowing that I would just love to eat a ........... whatever but if I do I may put on 100 grams and feel that my life has been cut short by 20 minutes.

I have too many things I want to do than worry what someone who has never met me thinks about me.

I would rather die fat, happy and have a great life than watch everything I eat and see all my friends and family die around me.

That must be worth at least 3 baht rather than the normal 50 satang.

I knew I was right on the money when I called Build766 out on his "I'm happy to be fat" comments.

He had a dream to get down to 100kg. What a difference a year made.

Here's one of his posts from last year:

"Posted 2011-02-02 15:33:12

That is interesting as I am too fat also.

The interesting bit is that I have 10 or so pomelo trees that are bursting with the dam_n things.

I went up to 118.7 kg and last week cut out all bread (home made by me) and butter.

I now eat 1/2 a melon and a couple of bananas for breakfast, a big bowl salad of cabbage, lettuce, onions, garlic, carrot and other veges as and when I find them plus 2 boiled eggs and a Thai Italian oil dressing and some balsamic vinegar.

Fruit for a snack if I get hungry.

I drink Earl Grey tea with no milk or sugar, water, maybe one 3 in one coffee with a little milk a day and one Ovaltine 3 in 1 before I go to bed.

In the evening my wife cooks me a normal sort of meal and I drink usually 3 Sang Som and sodas during the evening.

I have lost about 3 kg in the last 9 days and my dream is to get down to around 100kg and stay close to it.

I used to be 125 kg and got down to 106 a couple of years ago before I retire"

At the risk of upsetting someone on TVF - So What?

Or put another way, wait until you are 68 and see how easy it is to keep at your target weight.

I'm almost 71 and can confirm that it just gets harder with every year.

A British Post Office study a fair few years ago showed that the average Brit put on 0.8 Kg per year after their mid 20's.

8Kg per 10 years. So from mid 20's to mid 60's add 8 x 4 = 32 Kg

The average weight for Brit males used to be 75Kg so add 32 and you get 107 Kg so I guess that Bild is an average guy then?

But if you use current statistics:-

The average height is 5 feet 9 1/2 inches. The average weight is now around 180 lbs. (26 lbs above ideal!) or 82 Kg

Then 82 + 32 = 114 Kg so still average.

Please drop this and make some of your other great and inspiring (and helpful) posts.

[tropo]

At the risk of upsetting someone on TVF - So What?

Please drop this and make some of your other great and inspiring (and helpful) posts.

It had been dropped, but then picked up again when I happened to come across one of Built766's old posts.

The ages and bodyweights are inconsequential. It was the "I'm happy to be fat" comment which I was referring to.

Now we can drop it again. You won't have to worry about a reply from Built766 as he has me on ignore.

I'm only a spring chicken at age 53, but I don't think is that difficult to stay lean as you age - just eat less and keep up the exercise if possible.

Cheers

[mommysboy]

I couldn't subscribe to the idea of there being an underlying medical condition, but would point out that a choice is only a choice if you have the ability to act upon it. Junk food is an addiction and like any other the struggle is to recognise and work through it.

I could not foresee a situation whereby someone on a healthy diet and taking a modicum of exercise would not obtain a decent weight, not necessarily as slim as they might like, but simply fit, which might involve carrying a bit extra from middle age onwards.

Having been stick thin most of my life, I found myself putting on weight recently and had to really look for the first time in my life at dietary issues. It became quite obvious that this whole diet issue is really about eating good food, and although quantity is a consideration of course, the less processed the food the better and slimmer I became again. The key is eating good quality carbs: porridge, cereals, spuds and bread for me. Then no cakes and biccies in the house, or at least nothing fancy. In the evening I ate only fruit , beans, toast. As I have a liking for a savory things, I was able to satiate my hunger with lots of marmite on toast.

Common sense really, but the problem with an addiction is it is usually blamed on anything and everything else.

[tropo]

One reason why a person could start putting on weight as they age is due insulin resistance which often starts showing up later on in life. The diet you prescribe is high in carbs and could exacerbate the condition and result in abdominal (visceral) fat accumulation. Have you had your blood sugar checked?...both fasting and postprandial (after meals) and also HbA1c.

Strictly speaking you can still maintain a lean bodyweight even eating junk. It's not healthy, but being lean doesn't mean you're healthy.

[billd766]

I am 68 and fat because I am happy that way.

I never force my lifestyle or opinions onto other people because I am not made that way.

I know I can loose weight if I want to and I also know that at sometime in the future that I will die.

I would rather and I will die a happy person instead of being miserable knowing that I would just love to eat a ........... whatever but if I do I may put on 100 grams and feel that my life has been cut short by 20 minutes.

I have too many things I want to do than worry what someone who has never met me thinks about me.

I would rather die fat, happy and have a great life than watch everything I eat and see all my friends and family die around me.

That must be worth at least 3 baht rather than the normal 50 satang.

I knew I was right on the money when I called Build766 out on his "I'm happy to be fat" comments.

He had a dream to get down to 100kg. What a difference a year made.

Here's one of his posts from last year:

"Posted 2011-02-02 15:33:12

That is interesting as I am too fat also.

The interesting bit is that I have 10 or so pomelo trees that are bursting with the dam_n things.

I went up to 118.7 kg and last week cut out all bread (home made by me) and butter.

I now eat 1/2 a melon and a couple of bananas for breakfast, a big bowl salad of cabbage, lettuce, onions, garlic, carrot and other veges as and when I find them plus 2 boiled eggs and a Thai Italian oil dressing and some balsamic vinegar.

Fruit for a snack if I get hungry.

I drink Earl Grey tea with no milk or sugar, water, maybe one 3 in one coffee with a little milk a day and one Ovaltine 3 in 1 before I go to bed.

In the evening my wife cooks me a normal sort of meal and I drink usually 3 Sang Som and sodas during the evening.

I have lost about 3 kg in the last 9 days and my dream is to get down to around 100kg and stay close to it.

I used to be 125 kg and got down to 106 a couple of years ago before I retire"

At the risk of upsetting someone on TVF - So What?

Or put another way, wait until you are 68 and see how easy it is to keep at your target weight.

I'm almost 71 and can confirm that it just gets harder with every year.

A British Post Office study a fair few years ago showed that the average Brit put on 0.8 Kg per year after their mid 20's.

8Kg per 10 years. So from mid 20's to mid 60's add 8 x 4 = 32 Kg

The average weight for Brit males used to be 75Kg so add 32 and you get 107 Kg so I guess that Bild is an average guy then?

But if you use current statistics:-

The average height is 5 feet 9 1/2 inches. The average weight is now around 180 lbs. (26 lbs above ideal!) or 82 Kg

Then 82 + 32 = 114 Kg so still average.

Please drop this and make some of your other great and inspiring (and helpful) posts.

Thank you for your support and your so what comment.

As for tropo when you are a fully qualified doctor or health physician please post your credentials on Thai Visa for all to see.

Then, and ONLY then I may take some notice of you.

I actually missed your post because you are on my igore as a persistant little pest list.

Goodbye and please don't post anything more about me.

[tropo]

Thank you for your support and your so what comment.

As for tropo when you are a fully qualified doctor or health physician please post your credentials on Thai Visa for all to see.

Then, and ONLY then I may take some notice of you.

I actually missed your post because you are on my igore as a persistant little pest list.

Goodbye and please don't post anything more about me.

The idea of putting someone on ignore is to ignore them, You can't help yourself, can you? You had to read my replies.

I merely wanted to point out that you contradicted yourself and that you are indeed as I had stated - a failed dieter. Your "I'm happy to be fat" mantra rings of defeat.

Edited November 28, 2012 by tropo

[laislica]

I couldn't subscribe to the idea of there being an underlying medical condition, but would point out that a choice is only a choice if you have the ability to act upon it. Junk food is an addiction and like any other the struggle is to recognise and work through it.

I could not foresee a situation whereby someone on a healthy diet and taking a modicum of exercise would not obtain a decent weight, not necessarily as slim as they might like, but simply fit, which might involve carrying a bit extra from middle age onwards.

Having been stick thin most of my life, I found myself putting on weight recently and had to really look for the first time in my life at dietary issues. It became quite obvious that this whole diet issue is really about eating good food, and although quantity is a consideration of course, the less processed the food the better and slimmer I became again. The key is eating good quality carbs: porridge, cereals, spuds and bread for me. Then no cakes and biccies in the house, or at least nothing fancy. In the evening I ate only fruit , beans, toast. As I have a liking for a savory things, I was able to satiate my hunger with lots of marmite on toast.

Common sense really, but the problem with an addiction is it is usually blamed on anything and everything else.

A great post, thanks.

Eating the best quality, unprocessed food is certainly the key along with good gut flora.

However, Tropo has a point cos the carbs you mention seem to be mostly high Glycemin Index which can result in blood sugar spikes and later on to insulin resistance.

You didn't mention nuts, they are a good source of healthy fats and protein too.

However, we are all different and if your diet suits you then excellent.

On the web you can find free calculators that assess your nutrition type as protein, carb or a mixture of both.

Good luck and thanks for sharing

Edited November 28, 2012 by laislica

[laislica]

Thank you for your support and your so what comment.

As for tropo when you are a fully qualified doctor or health physician please post your credentials on Thai Visa for all to see.

Then, and ONLY then I may take some notice of you.

I actually missed your post because you are on my igore as a persistant little pest list.

Goodbye and please don't post anything more about me.

Billd, I learned a long time ago that if you ignore something, it goes away.

Please let this thing drop, I asked Tropo to drop it too.

I am actually interested in your story and I don't care to put you into a category.

How you are is no ones business than your own.

I also don't care what you may have posted before.

I also don't care if you've changed your mind.

I think it's nice to hear about someone who has settled for being fat and is learning to live with it.

When I was fat, I was unhappy because my BP was so high that I needed meds and the Dr never mentioned that the meds can cause a loss of libido (if you know what I mean).

I had no stamina, huffing and puffing if I had to climb stairs etc.

Now I'm back in the LOS, it's very tempting to overeat the scrumptious fruit and goodies on sale everywhere.

However, I'm so far resisting. I also bought some dumbbells 5 and 3 Kg so we both do a little exercise in the mornings before breakfast.

I spent 4 months alone in Spain, living opposite a superb pastry and coffee shop and I never went there, walked past it hundreds of times though

I must admit to having eaten a cake yesterday but I will resist again.

Loy Krathong looks as it might be a washout in my neck of the woods, been peeing down most of the day.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

I couldn't subscribe to the idea of there being an underlying medical condition, but would point out that a choice is only a choice if you have the ability to act upon it. Junk food is an addiction and like any other the struggle is to recognise and work through it.

I could not foresee a situation whereby someone on a healthy diet and taking a modicum of exercise would not obtain a decent weight, not necessarily as slim as they might like, but simply fit, which might involve carrying a bit extra from middle age onwards.

Having been stick thin most of my life, I found myself putting on weight recently and had to really look for the first time in my life at dietary issues. It became quite obvious that this whole diet issue is really about eating good food, and although quantity is a consideration of course, the less processed the food the better and slimmer I became again. The key is eating good quality carbs: porridge, cereals, spuds and bread for me. Then no cakes and biccies in the house, or at least nothing fancy. In the evening I ate only fruit , beans, toast. As I have a liking for a savory things, I was able to satiate my hunger with lots of marmite on toast.

Common sense really, but the problem with an addiction is it is usually blamed on anything and everything else.

I agree with your general approach and it has the merit of not being too "scientific" and therefore easy to follow.

Additionally, I would eat more potatoes dishes with their skins on, e.g. baked potatoes and mash potatoes to include the skins. I use wholemeal pasta,wholemeal bread and unpolished rice as well. These things add bulk to the diet and help to suppress appetite.

I completely agree with your proposition that processed, sugary foods should be avoided completely. These foods are not natural and result in sudden surges in blood sugar.

I also find it helpful to weigh myself daily, at the same time and before the first meal of the day. I find this useful to prompt me to take remedial action if my weight is starting to climb.

[robblok]

I couldn't subscribe to the idea of there being an underlying medical condition, but would point out that a choice is only a choice if you have the ability to act upon it. Junk food is an addiction and like any other the struggle is to recognise and work through it.

I could not foresee a situation whereby someone on a healthy diet and taking a modicum of exercise would not obtain a decent weight, not necessarily as slim as they might like, but simply fit, which might involve carrying a bit extra from middle age onwards.

Having been stick thin most of my life, I found myself putting on weight recently and had to really look for the first time in my life at dietary issues. It became quite obvious that this whole diet issue is really about eating good food, and although quantity is a consideration of course, the less processed the food the better and slimmer I became again. The key is eating good quality carbs: porridge, cereals, spuds and bread for me. Then no cakes and biccies in the house, or at least nothing fancy. In the evening I ate only fruit , beans, toast. As I have a liking for a savory things, I was able to satiate my hunger with lots of marmite on toast.

Common sense really, but the problem with an addiction is it is usually blamed on anything and everything else.

I agree with your general approach and it has the merit of not being too "scientific" and therefore easy to follow.

Additionally, I would eat more potatoes dishes with their skins on, e.g. baked potatoes and mash potatoes to include the skins. I use wholemeal pasta,wholemeal bread and unpolished rice as well. These things add bulk to the diet and help to suppress appetite.

I completely agree with your proposition that processed, sugary foods should be avoided completely. These foods are not natural and result in sudden surges in blood sugar.

I also find it helpful to weigh myself daily, at the same time and before the first meal of the day. I find this useful to prompt me to take remedial action if my weight is starting to climb.

I also try to weigh myself every day, but sometimes that feels a bit obsessive. I went scientiffic because i can. I am in the position and have the determination to count my calories. But that is not for everyone.

I believe everyone should find their own way to loose weight that they are comfortable with. In the end its all about sticking with it. You can loose weight fast and give up fast or loose it slow and go on with it.

[laislica]

Not that I'm obsessed but first thing after a visit to the toilet I shave first and exhale whilst weighing in,

Air is heavy you know

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

I couldn't subscribe to the idea of there being an underlying medical condition, but would point out that a choice is only a choice if you have the ability to act upon it. Junk food is an addiction and like any other the struggle is to recognise and work through it.

I could not foresee a situation whereby someone on a healthy diet and taking a modicum of exercise would not obtain a decent weight, not necessarily as slim as they might like, but simply fit, which might involve carrying a bit extra from middle age onwards.

Having been stick thin most of my life, I found myself putting on weight recently and had to really look for the first time in my life at dietary issues. It became quite obvious that this whole diet issue is really about eating good food, and although quantity is a consideration of course, the less processed the food the better and slimmer I became again. The key is eating good quality carbs: porridge, cereals, spuds and bread for me. Then no cakes and biccies in the house, or at least nothing fancy. In the evening I ate only fruit , beans, toast. As I have a liking for a savory things, I was able to satiate my hunger with lots of marmite on toast.

Common sense really, but the problem with an addiction is it is usually blamed on anything and everything else.

I agree with your general approach and it has the merit of not being too "scientific" and therefore easy to follow.

Additionally, I would eat more potatoes dishes with their skins on, e.g. baked potatoes and mash potatoes to include the skins. I use wholemeal pasta,wholemeal bread and unpolished rice as well. These things add bulk to the diet and help to suppress appetite.

I completely agree with your proposition that processed, sugary foods should be avoided completely. These foods are not natural and result in sudden surges in blood sugar.

I also find it helpful to weigh myself daily, at the same time and before the first meal of the day. I find this useful to prompt me to take remedial action if my weight is starting to climb.

I also try to weigh myself every day, but sometimes that feels a bit obsessive. I went scientiffic because i can. I am in the position and have the determination to count my calories. But that is not for everyone.

I believe everyone should find their own way to loose weight that they are comfortable with. In the end its all about sticking with it. You can loose weight fast and give up fast or loose it slow and go on with it.

Being systematic and methodical is not the same as being obsessive. If every day is too much then weigh yourself every two days or every three days. Weighing yourself using the same set of scales at the same time of day, before your first intake of food and unclothed is simply being systematic and methodical. Comparison of the results is therefore more meaningful.

[GarryP]

Not that I'm obsessed but first thing after a visit to the toilet I shave first and exhale whilst weighing in,

Air is heavy you know

Yes, brush the teeth to get rid of anything caught between the teeth, have a shave, evacuate all waste and then weigh oneself. Never after a shower, always before, wet hair is heavy too.

[laislica]

Not that I'm obsessed but first thing after a visit to the toilet I shave first and exhale whilst weighing in,

Air is heavy you know

Yes, brush the teeth to get rid of anything caught between the teeth, have a shave, evacuate all waste and then weigh oneself. Never after a shower, always before, wet hair is heavy too.

Excellent, more great ideas!

I just thought it was about time to lighten things up a wee bit.

Seriously, I have sight problems and have been trying to find talking scales like the ones I have in Spain.

No luck in and around Bangkok so far. I'll try Chiang Mai next month.

The other day I bought the Tanita digital ones that also scan and give an indication of percent fat, percent water, muscle and bone for up to 7 people.

I know they are not accurate, depends on how damp your feet are, amongst other things. but from Feb to July, i had no scales and yes the weight did go up.

Now that I can monitor it, I aim to continue to slowly drive it down until I can pinch less than an inch in all the traditional trouble spots.

I am actually quite close to getting there. I have digital callipers to measure with.

I've never had a 6 pack and I think 70 is a bit late to go for that, I don't want to show all the young lads up

Edited November 28, 2012 by laislica

[tropo]

I couldn't subscribe to the idea of there being an underlying medical condition, but would point out that a choice is only a choice if you have the ability to act upon it. Junk food is an addiction and like any other the struggle is to recognise and work through it.

I could not foresee a situation whereby someone on a healthy diet and taking a modicum of exercise would not obtain a decent weight, not necessarily as slim as they might like, but simply fit, which might involve carrying a bit extra from middle age onwards.

Having been stick thin most of my life, I found myself putting on weight recently and had to really look for the first time in my life at dietary issues. It became quite obvious that this whole diet issue is really about eating good food, and although quantity is a consideration of course, the less processed the food the better and slimmer I became again. The key is eating good quality carbs: porridge, cereals, spuds and bread for me. Then no cakes and biccies in the house, or at least nothing fancy. In the evening I ate only fruit , beans, toast. As I have a liking for a savory things, I was able to satiate my hunger with lots of marmite on toast.

Common sense really, but the problem with an addiction is it is usually blamed on anything and everything else.

A great post, thanks.

Eating the best quality, unprocessed food is certainly the key along with good gut flora.

However, Tropo has a point cos the carbs you mention seem to be mostly high Glycemin Index which can result in blood sugar spikes and later on to insulin resistance.

You didn't mention nuts, they are a good source of healthy fats and protein too.

However, we are all different and if your diet suits you then excellent.

On the web you can find free calculators that assess your nutrition type as protein, carb or a mixture of both.

Good luck and thanks for sharing

Actually, as far as blood sugar spikes are concerned, the only way to know for sure is to buy a glucometer and test after various meals. For example I can handle a reasonable serve of oats whereas other people will spike badly with the same meal. Timing and quantity are other vary important considerations. Actually quantity is far more important that glycemic indexes. For example, a small serve of a food with a high glycemic index could be a lot better than a big meal of a food with a lower glycemic index.

The only way to know is test. IMO everyone over 40 should own their own glucometer. I wish I had but I didn't get mine until my readings were through the roof in my mid 40's. I could have had a problem 10 - 15 years earlier but I'll never know.

Edited November 28, 2012 by tropo

[mommysboy]

One reason why a person could start putting on weight as they age is due insulin resistance which often starts showing up later on in life. The diet you prescribe is high in carbs and could exacerbate the condition and result in abdominal (visceral) fat accumulation. Have you had your blood sugar checked?...both fasting and postprandial (after meals) and also HbA1c.

Strictly speaking you can still maintain a lean bodyweight even eating junk. It's not healthy, but being lean doesn't mean you're healthy.

Funny you should mention that, when I had my routine checks over a year ago now. I had to go back for a second test to rule out diabetes. For this test I had to fast overnight. Nothing came of it thankfully. I have long suspected that I don't handle sugar too well and may have insulin resistance.

Yes your very astute last point is often missed, you don't have to give up all those things you like and crave. At least once a week I have a Big Mac, usually after a work out, or perhaps if I haven't eaten anything at all that day. I figure at this point it is about calorie control, and am sure to check that I haven't eaten much before nor will do afterwards and i make sure the subsequent snacks are very healthy. A big control for me is walking, as this is a simple and pleasurable way to burn off at least a 100 calories quite quickly without the inconvenience of the gym.

With complex carbs, I thought the beauty of them is that they reduce sugar spikes because they are low burn, so don't they help diabetics? If I wanted to cut back on carbs what could I eat in their place?

[Kalbo]

I am 68 and fat because I am happy that way.

I never force my lifestyle or opinions onto other people because I am not made that way.

I know I can loose weight if I want to and I also know that at sometime in the future that I will die.

I would rather and I will die a happy person instead of being miserable knowing that I would just love to eat a ........... whatever but if I do I may put on 100 grams and feel that my life has been cut short by 20 minutes.

I have too many things I want to do than worry what someone who has never met me thinks about me.

I would rather die fat, happy and have a great life than watch everything I eat and see all my friends and family die around me.

That must be worth at least 3 baht rather than the normal 50 satang.

I knew I was right on the money when I called Build766 out on his "I'm happy to be fat" comments.

He had a dream to get down to 100kg. What a difference a year made.

Here's one of his posts from last year:

"Posted 2011-02-02 15:33:12

That is interesting as I am too fat also.

The interesting bit is that I have 10 or so pomelo trees that are bursting with the dam_n things.

I went up to 118.7 kg and last week cut out all bread (home made by me) and butter.

I now eat 1/2 a melon and a couple of bananas for breakfast, a big bowl salad of cabbage, lettuce, onions, garlic, carrot and other veges as and when I find them plus 2 boiled eggs and a Thai Italian oil dressing and some balsamic vinegar.

Fruit for a snack if I get hungry.

I drink Earl Grey tea with no milk or sugar, water, maybe one 3 in one coffee with a little milk a day and one Ovaltine 3 in 1 before I go to bed.

In the evening my wife cooks me a normal sort of meal and I drink usually 3 Sang Som and sodas during the evening.

I have lost about 3 kg in the last 9 days and my dream is to get down to around 100kg and stay close to it.

I used to be 125 kg and got down to 106 a couple of years ago before I retire"

At the risk of upsetting someone on TVF - So What?

Or put another way, wait until you are 68 and see how easy it is to keep at your target weight.

I'm almost 71 and can confirm that it just gets harder with every year.

A British Post Office study a fair few years ago showed that the average Brit put on 0.8 Kg per year after their mid 20's.

8Kg per 10 years. So from mid 20's to mid 60's add 8 x 4 = 32 Kg

The average weight for Brit males used to be 75Kg so add 32 and you get 107 Kg so I guess that Bild is an average guy then?

But if you use current statistics:-

The average height is 5 feet 9 1/2 inches. The average weight is now around 180 lbs. (26 lbs above ideal!) or 82 Kg

Then 82 + 32 = 114 Kg so still average.

Please drop this and make some of your other great and inspiring (and helpful) posts.

Thank you for your support and your so what comment.

As for tropo when you are a fully qualified doctor or health physician please post your credentials on Thai Visa for all to see.

Then, and ONLY then I may take some notice of you.

I actually missed your post because you are on my igore as a persistant little pest list.

Goodbye and please don't post anything more about me.

Well you certainly come across as a petulant little child. While Tropo is well able to defend himself, I would very much like to say that he is a veritable host of extremely useful information concerning weight-training ,diet and training. Admittedly, his style is sometimes abrupt, but he conveys what he wants to say in a no-nonsense, no-bullshit way that has given more than a few people (including myself) some very good ideas and pointers for weight loss, weight training and general health. Stop being so sensitive, Fatty, and actually try and learn from the man.

[Tolley]

One reason why a person could start putting on weight as they age is due insulin resistance which often starts showing up later on in life. The diet you prescribe is high in carbs and could exacerbate the condition and result in abdominal (visceral) fat accumulation. Have you had your blood sugar checked?...both fasting and postprandial (after meals) and also HbA1c.

Strictly speaking you can still maintain a lean bodyweight even eating junk. It's not healthy, but being lean doesn't mean you're healthy.

I think that the drop off in testosterone is the real biggy. Diabetes of the mature onset type is more often a by product of the bad habits of years past. eg overweight, lack of exercise, poor diet

Middle age spread, balding etc are all related to testosterone dropping off. Diet and exercise become critical for many guys who have never had to worry too much previously.

[tropo]

One reason why a person could start putting on weight as they age is due insulin resistance which often starts showing up later on in life. The diet you prescribe is high in carbs and could exacerbate the condition and result in abdominal (visceral) fat accumulation. Have you had your blood sugar checked?...both fasting and postprandial (after meals) and also HbA1c.

Strictly speaking you can still maintain a lean bodyweight even eating junk. It's not healthy, but being lean doesn't mean you're healthy.

I think that the drop off in testosterone is the real biggy. Diabetes of the mature onset type is more often a by product of the bad habits of years past. eg overweight, lack of exercise, poor diet

Middle age spread, balding etc are all related to testosterone dropping off. Diet and exercise become critical for many guys who have never had to worry too much previously.

That is true. TRT (testosterone supplementation) often improves insulin sensitivity.

[Tolley]

One reason why a person could start putting on weight as they age is due insulin resistance which often starts showing up later on in life. The diet you prescribe is high in carbs and could exacerbate the condition and result in abdominal (visceral) fat accumulation. Have you had your blood sugar checked?...both fasting and postprandial (after meals) and also HbA1c.

Strictly speaking you can still maintain a lean bodyweight even eating junk. It's not healthy, but being lean doesn't mean you're healthy.

I think that the drop off in testosterone is the real biggy. Diabetes of the mature onset type is more often a by product of the bad habits of years past. eg overweight, lack of exercise, poor diet

Middle age spread, balding etc are all related to testosterone dropping off. Diet and exercise become critical for many guys who have never had to worry too much previously.

That is true. TRT (testosterone supplementation) often improves insulin sensitivity.

I had always had a good diet and exercised heavily and was very lean until I hit the mid to late forties.

In fact it was after playing squash one day one for the guys noticed the formation of small side handles on the trunk and that was the start for me of a middle age male menopause. So now it is a matter of having to be even more vigilant with diet and exercise. Tribulus helped me get over the moodiness. Mediherb make a product called tribulus forte which I found very good. I am also pushing more weights and doing less cardio than i used to and I think this has helped as well.

[tropo]

With complex carbs, I thought the beauty of them is that they reduce sugar spikes because they are low burn, so don't they help diabetics? If I wanted to cut back on carbs what could I eat in their place?

Believe it or not, a cup of rice (brown or white) can spike blood sugar nearly as quickly as sugar. The maximum blood sugar spike usually occurs at 45 minutes after eating (the start of eating). The same is true of white or brown bread, pasta etc. It's complicated because not everyone reacts to the same food in exactly the same way. The colour of the bread or rice makes little difference, however the quantity can. For example you maybe able to handle 1/2 cup of rice well whereas 1 cup pushes the blood sugar too high.

You may well ask, what do I mean by "too high"? There is strong evidence that cellular damage occurs when blood sugar is over 140 mg/dl, so I would make an effort to ensure that blood sugar never goes over that number. Even better would be to try to keep the blood sugar level below 120 (or even lower) at all times.

A person with advanced insulin resistance or diabetes cannot handle any carbs well no matter what their glycemic indexes.

Your doctor gave you a Fasting Blood sugar test (FBS). A normal reading is below 100mg/dl. Some people can have normal FBS yet spike badly after meals whereas others can have high FBS readings and not spike after meals.

Postprandial (after meal) 1 and 2 hour readings are important and an HbA1c test can tell a lot about your blood sugar control. You shouldn't rely solely on a FBS test. A more fastidious doctor would add an OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test) to see how you handle sugar, plus an HbA1c test.

The easiest (and best) way is to have your own glucometer to test yourself after meals. An HbA1c test is easily obtained here in Thailand for about 300 baht at most test labs.

Just eat your normal meal and test at 1 and 2 hours after your first bite. I try to keep my blood sugar levels under 110 mg/dl at all times. Below 100 would be even better.

Edited November 29, 2012 by tropo

[mommysboy]

I couldn't subscribe to the idea of there being an underlying medical condition, but would point out that a choice is only a choice if you have the ability to act upon it. Junk food is an addiction and like any other the struggle is to recognise and work through it.

I could not foresee a situation whereby someone on a healthy diet and taking a modicum of exercise would not obtain a decent weight, not necessarily as slim as they might like, but simply fit, which might involve carrying a bit extra from middle age onwards.

Having been stick thin most of my life, I found myself putting on weight recently and had to really look for the first time in my life at dietary issues. It became quite obvious that this whole diet issue is really about eating good food, and although quantity is a consideration of course, the less processed the food the better and slimmer I became again. The key is eating good quality carbs: porridge, cereals, spuds and bread for me. Then no cakes and biccies in the house, or at least nothing fancy. In the evening I ate only fruit , beans, toast. As I have a liking for a savory things, I was able to satiate my hunger with lots of marmite on toast.

Common sense really, but the problem with an addiction is it is usually blamed on anything and everything else.

I agree with your general approach and it has the merit of not being too "scientific" and therefore easy to follow.

Additionally, I would eat more potatoes dishes with their skins on, e.g. baked potatoes and mash potatoes to include the skins. I use wholemeal pasta,wholemeal bread and unpolished rice as well. These things add bulk to the diet and help to suppress appetite.

I completely agree with your proposition that processed, sugary foods should be avoided completely. These foods are not natural and result in sudden surges in blood sugar.

I also find it helpful to weigh myself daily, at the same time and before the first meal of the day. I find this useful to prompt me to take remedial action if my weight is starting to climb.

I think my diet probably has too many carbs. What are the common foods that you eat?

[laislica]

Tropo, could you expand on the glucometer please.

I had a look on the internet and found that some are even given free with 2 boxes of test strips.

Test strips can be individually wrapped to extend their shelf life.

Which unit do you recommend for least pain and least expense for strips.

Do we need to use the thing continually or is it sufficient to use it FBS + PP tests on different foods, enough to understand how I handle carbs.

I eat few carbs, normally 2 pieces of toast with eggs & a tiny amount of cheese + raw Toms and garlic for brekkie.

I used to eat tons of cheese but now about 100 grams per week.

Lunch at home, stir fried veggies and chicken breast, no skin + raw garlic + chilli (I like it hot).

Dinner at 7 pm, same as lunch.

Maybe a tin or two of Chang beer in the evening. (Baad, I know but what the hey, gotta have some fun?)

When we eat out I do eat some rice, otherwise not. If the veggies contain carrot or beans than I think I get enough carbs from them. I eat about 1 square of 81% chocolate daily. Have cinnamon in instant black coffee with breakfast. I eat a little fruit daily, no fruit juices.

[tropo]

Tropo, could you expand on the glucometer please.

I had a look on the internet and found that some are even given free with 2 boxes of test strips.

Test strips can be individually wrapped to extend their shelf life.

Which unit do you recommend for least pain and least expense for strips.

Do we need to use the thing continually or is it sufficient to use it FBS + PP tests on different foods, enough to understand how I handle carbs.

I eat few carbs, normally 2 pieces of toast with eggs & a tiny amount of cheese + raw Toms and garlic for brekkie.

I used to eat tons of cheese but now about 100 grams per week.

Lunch at home, stir fried veggies and chicken breast, no skin + raw garlic + chilli (I like it hot).

Dinner at 7 pm, same as lunch.

Maybe a tin or two of Chang beer in the evening. (Baad, I know but what the hey, gotta have some fun?)

When we eat out I do eat some rice, otherwise not. If the veggies contain carrot or beans than I think I get enough carbs from them. I eat about 1 square of 81% chocolate daily. Have cinnamon in instant black coffee with breakfast. I eat a little fruit daily, no fruit juices.

That's a pretty low carb diet. It's unlikely you're going to have lousy blood sugar readings unless you are seriously diabetic.

The meter I use is called "Easy Gluco". I bought it at Fascino. The reason why I bought this one is because the strips are the cheapest. Strips get expensive if you test often, so it is a big consideration when you have a glucometer. 2 boxes of 25 cost just under 800 baht with the 5% discount card at Fascino.

No, you don't have to test all the time. Once I know how I respond to various meals I won't test again until I eat something different. I would test FBS maybe once or twice a month just to keep a check on it.

[tropo]

I think my diet probably has too many carbs. What are the common foods that you eat?

You asked the question on your previous post. You can only replace carbs with fat and protein. Good fat in the form of raw nuts is a good way to increase your calorie consumption if you're reducing your carbs.

Edited November 29, 2012 by tropo

[billd766]

Thank you for your support and your so what comment.

As for tropo when you are a fully qualified doctor or health physician please post your credentials on Thai Visa for all to see.

Then, and ONLY then I may take some notice of you.

I actually missed your post because you are on my igore as a persistant little pest list.

Goodbye and please don't post anything more about me.

Billd, I learned a long time ago that if you ignore something, it goes away.

Please let this thing drop, I asked Tropo to drop it too.

I am actually interested in your story and I don't care to put you into a category.

How you are is no ones business than your own.

I also don't care what you may have posted before.

I also don't care if you've changed your mind.

I think it's nice to hear about someone who has settled for being fat and is learning to live with it.

When I was fat, I was unhappy because my BP was so high that I needed meds and the Dr never mentioned that the meds can cause a loss of libido (if you know what I mean).

I had no stamina, huffing and puffing if I had to climb stairs etc.

Now I'm back in the LOS, it's very tempting to overeat the scrumptious fruit and goodies on sale everywhere.

However, I'm so far resisting. I also bought some dumbbells 5 and 3 Kg so we both do a little exercise in the mornings before breakfast.

I spent 4 months alone in Spain, living opposite a superb pastry and coffee shop and I never went there, walked past it hundreds of times though

I must admit to having eaten a cake yesterday but I will resist again.

Loy Krathong looks as it might be a washout in my neck of the woods, been peeing down most of the day.

I actually came back after about 3 weeks and only responded as I saw my name there in your post.

I probably won't bother to respond to anyone though I may look from time to time.

Some twonk called Kalbo is having a go at me now because I asked tropo about his qualifications.

Yesterday here was OK but around 7.30 last night just as my son was launching his kratrhong float the skies opened.

Have a nide weekend.

[tropo]

Some twonk called Kalbo is having a go at me now because I asked tropo about his qualifications.

Seriously, you'd have to ask yourself who is the "twonk" on here.

We're all offering opinions based on personal experience and study. If you want to communicate with qualified doctors perhaps another forum would be more suited to your needs.... but seriously, I don't think they'd be giving you the time of day. You need to pay for that.