Is Being Fat A Choice (If There Is No Underlying Medical Reason)

[laislica]

Just to say how the food industry are doing their best to kill us.

You know that Olive Oil comes from olives, and that Sesame Seed Oil comes from sesame seeds. It would make sense that Canola Oil comes from Canola Seeds, right? Well, there’s actually no such thing.

Canola is a made-up word which stands for “Canadian oil low acid”, and is a genetically modified product. It is a Canadian invention that is backed by the government. It’s a cheap product to manufacture, and almost all processed or packaged foods contain canola oil.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to insert a link, would the Moderator take the necessary action please.

http://www.draxe.com/canola-oil-gm/?utm_source=DrAxe.com+Newsletter&utm_campaign=2a878a32fd-Stop+Using+Canola+Oil+Immediately&utm_medium=email&mc_cid=2a878a32fd&mc_eid=ea7fa98cc4

Or try a Google search for Stop Using Canola Oil Immediately

The article is on a site by DrAxe. it gives a list of the nasty things that canola oil does when you eat it and it is now in almost all processed foods.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Just to say how the food industry are doing their best to kill us.

You know that Olive Oil comes from olives, and that Sesame Seed Oil comes from sesame seeds. It would make sense that Canola Oil comes from Canola Seeds, right? Well, there’s actually no such thing.

Canola is a made-up word which stands for “Canadian oil low acid”, and is a genetically modified product. It is a Canadian invention that is backed by the government. It’s a cheap product to manufacture, and almost all processed or packaged foods contain canola oil.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to insert a link, would the Moderator take the necessary action please.

http://www.draxe.com..._eid=ea7fa98cc4

Or try a Google search for Stop Using Canola Oil Immediately

The article is on a site by DrAxe. it gives a list of the nasty things that canola oil does when you eat it and it is now in almost all processed foods.

Is tiger balm made from real tigers and what about shepherds pie, is that made from real shepherds?

[tropo]

Running a marathon is often seen as the epitome of fitness and the ultimate show of endurance. But it puts an extraordinary stress on your heart.

I would never have considered using a marathon runner as an example of fitness and health for comparative purposes. They're amongst the unhealthiest, haggard looking athletes across all sports. I'm not surprised they are suffering from heart conditions. By its very nature it's a sport of excess. You don't even have to be a scientist to guess they could be suffering from health problems.

Intelligent athletes (and bodybuilders) monitor how they respond to exercise and adjust the intensity level accordingly to achieve maximum recovery and progress.

There are many other destructive sports. Using these to make a point about health and the benefits of exercise serves no purpose. The key to burning maximum calories is to choose an exercise which burns the maximum number of calories with the least amount of stress on the body. IMO the Cybex Arc Trainer takes first place as a calorie burner.

[tropo]

I agree with a lot of what you say.

All calories are not created equal though.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before but Fructose and Alcohol molecules have only one transport system - the liver.

Consume too much of either or both and you will overload the mitochondria in the liver and fat will be passed directly into the blood stream and will be stored. Also once insulin is released, there is no chance of burning fat, the body would break muscle down to get the energy it needed and your ratio of fat to lean would change a tiny bit.

I disagree that the body would break down muscle instead of taping into fat stores. Perhaps by breaking down muscle you're referring to robbing the muscle of some of its stored glycogen reserves. This is not the break down of muscle tissue. The stores will rapidly be replenished again.

A calorie is a calorie as far as fat gain/loss is concerned. If you don't burn it you will store it. There's no other way to get rid of it.

[laislica]

I agree with a lot of what you say.

All calories are not created equal though.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before but Fructose and Alcohol molecules have only one transport system - the liver.

Consume too much of either or both and you will overload the mitochondria in the liver and fat will be passed directly into the blood stream and will be stored. Also once insulin is released, there is no chance of burning fat, the body would break muscle down to get the energy it needed and your ratio of fat to lean would change a tiny bit.

I disagree that the body would break down muscle instead of taping into fat stores. Perhaps by breaking down muscle you're referring to robbing the muscle of some of its stored glycogen reserves. This is not the break down of muscle tissue. The stores will rapidly be replenished again.

A calorie is a calorie as far as fat gain/loss is concerned. If you don't burn it you will store it. There's no other way to get rid of it.

Insulin is the problem here.

As I understand it, when there is enough insulin in the bloodstream, the body goes into fat storage mode and is unable to break fat down at this time.

When all the glycogen in the muscles is used up it has nowhere to go for energy except muscle and it breaks muscle down to get that energy.

There is a difference between glucose and fructose. Fructose is processed by the liver period.

Glucose is metabolised by every part of the body directly, even the brain can do this so the load is spread over all the organs and muscle. Excess glucose is compacted into glycogen and stored in the muscle for rapid access.

I think that the key to burning the maximum calories may be by involving all muscle types at the same time.

Short bursts of high intensity training will do this.

Of course, I could be wrong.

You might like to look at these links that good old Google gave me.

http://fitnessblackbook.com/dieting_for_fat_loss/high-insulin-levels-stop-fat-loss-and-cause-weight-gain/

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin

[Tolley]

Running a marathon is often seen as the epitome of fitness and the ultimate show of endurance. But it puts an extraordinary stress on your heart.

I would never have considered using a marathon runner as an example of fitness and health for comparative purposes. They're amongst the unhealthiest, haggard looking athletes across all sports. I'm not surprised they are suffering from heart conditions. By its very nature it's a sport of excess. You don't even have to be a scientist to guess they could be suffering from health problems.

Intelligent athletes (and bodybuilders) monitor how they respond to exercise and adjust the intensity level accordingly to achieve maximum recovery and progress.

There are many other destructive sports. Using these to make a point about health and the benefits of exercise serves no purpose. The key to burning maximum calories is to choose an exercise which burns the maximum number of calories with the least amount of stress on the body. IMO the Cybex Arc Trainer takes first place as a calorie burner.

Marathon runners are a very poor example when it comes to health and fitness.

There are a number of studies that have shown that shorter high levels of aerobic activity coupled with resistance training is the way to go.

Especially as you get older you need to maintain muscle mass and further too much running obviously stresses your joints and you whole musco skeletal system.

Further on heart health if you are doing heavy exercise it is a good idea to supplement with magnesium after heavy exercise to help with stress on the heart muscle.

[robblok]

I agree with a lot of what you say.

All calories are not created equal though.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before but Fructose and Alcohol molecules have only one transport system - the liver.

Consume too much of either or both and you will overload the mitochondria in the liver and fat will be passed directly into the blood stream and will be stored. Also once insulin is released, there is no chance of burning fat, the body would break muscle down to get the energy it needed and your ratio of fat to lean would change a tiny bit.

I disagree that the body would break down muscle instead of taping into fat stores. Perhaps by breaking down muscle you're referring to robbing the muscle of some of its stored glycogen reserves. This is not the break down of muscle tissue. The stores will rapidly be replenished again.

A calorie is a calorie as far as fat gain/loss is concerned. If you don't burn it you will store it. There's no other way to get rid of it.

Insulin is the problem here.

As I understand it, when there is enough insulin in the bloodstream, the body goes into fat storage mode and is unable to break fat down at this time.

When all the glycogen in the muscles is used up it has nowhere to go for energy except muscle and it breaks muscle down to get that energy.

There is a difference between glucose and fructose. Fructose is processed by the liver period.

Glucose is metabolised by every part of the body directly, even the brain can do this so the load is spread over all the organs and muscle. Excess glucose is compacted into glycogen and stored in the muscle for rapid access.

I think that the key to burning the maximum calories may be by involving all muscle types at the same time.

Short bursts of high intensity training will do this.

Of course, I could be wrong.

You might like to look at these links that good old Google gave me.

http://fitnessblackb...se-weight-gain/

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin

Insulin is indeed a problem, you got that right.

The body will in general break down fat before it breaks down muscle. Is it made for that evolutionary there is no point in breaking down muscle before fat. Fat is an energy reserve muscle is needed to get food. Though some muscle is lost in diets that are extreme IF there is no exercise. That is why exercise is so important. It tells the body the muscle is still needed.

About your insulin if you want to lower it buy a glucose meter (like for diabetic) people. I did, and i tested myself after ingesting certain foods. It helps you to make better meal choices. The GI index helps but different bodies respond differently.

[robblok]

@laislica,

Your insulin point is a good one, one that Tropo made with me a long time ago. I was living healthy and exercising a lot but still had some problems with fat. In the end it was my large bowls of oatmeal (over 120 grams at one sitting) that spiked my insulin. Even though oatmeal is considered ok.

I found out by bloodtests while i was not diabetic my scores were at the high part of the normal range. By changing how much oatmeal i ate at one sitting and buying a glucose meter i got valuable insight in my blood sugar levels. Now they are great, and i just test them once in a while if i added something new to my diet.

But also insulin is not only an enemy, its also helps building muscles. So we do need some of it just not in excess amounts. In a documentary about the akins diet they first thought the lack of carbs would make sure there was no insulin and excess calories would be excreted (ketose) but this was not the case.. or at least not in real large amounts.

[tropo]

But also insulin is not only an enemy, its also helps building muscles.

I just wanted to make a point about building and reducing muscle size. Most of muscle size increase is not building more tissue, but pumping the muscle full of water and glycogen. 70% of the muscle is water. The more conditioned a muscle is the more energy reserves it can hold and the more plump it appears. That disappears quite rapidly when you stop training, but it comes back again very quickly if you start training again. The point is the muscle doesn't get broken down during your non-training periods. There is a term often used by bodybuilders - "muscle memory", meaning muscles come back quickly if you had them before. They never really went anywhere, they were just taking a break and released their energy reserves as they were not required during a non-training period.

When Laislica is talking about muscles being broken down, nothing is really being torn apart - the body is merely taping into unused energy reserves inside the muscles, so the muscle will lose some weight. As you say, you need to keep the muscles stimulated while dieting to keep them from shrinking... however, it's obvious, even if not dieting that muscles lose size when not used - it's not a process unique to dieting situations.

[robblok]

But also insulin is not only an enemy, its also helps building muscles.

I just wanted to make a point about building and reducing muscle size. Most of muscle size increase is not building more tissue, but pumping the muscle full of water and glycogen. 70% of the muscle is water. The more conditioned a muscle is the more energy reserves it can hold and the more plump it appears. That disappears quite rapidly when you stop training, but it comes back again very quickly if you start training again. The point is the muscle doesn't get broken down during your non-training periods. There is a term often used by bodybuilders - "muscle memory", meaning muscles come back quickly if you had them before. They never really went anywhere, they were just taking a break and released their energy reserves as they were not required during a non-training period.

When Laislica is talking about muscles being broken down, nothing is really being torn apart - the body is merely taping into unused energy reserves inside the muscles, so the muscle will lose some weight. As you say, you need to keep the muscles stimulated while dieting to keep them from shrinking... however, it's obvious, even if not dieting that muscles lose size when not used - it's not a process unique to dieting situations.

Dieting can increase the real muscle loss and yes then it does get broken down. But only if you don't use it. What you are talking about i have experienced. I dieted hard once and all the glycocen was gone. I looked flat and not muscular. But after eating carbs it all came back in a few days.

[Tolley]

@laislica,

Your insulin point is a good one, one that Tropo made with me a long time ago. I was living healthy and exercising a lot but still had some problems with fat. In the end it was my large bowls of oatmeal (over 120 grams at one sitting) that spiked my insulin. Even though oatmeal is considered ok.

I found out by bloodtests while i was not diabetic my scores were at the high part of the normal range. By changing how much oatmeal i ate at one sitting and buying a glucose meter i got valuable insight in my blood sugar levels. Now they are great, and i just test them once in a while if i added something new to my diet.

But also insulin is not only an enemy, its also helps building muscles. So we do need some of it just not in excess amounts. In a documentary about the akins diet they first thought the lack of carbs would make sure there was no insulin and excess calories would be excreted (ketose) but this was not the case.. or at least not in real large amounts.

How are the scores affected if you eat protein with the oatmeal? I actually have low blood sugar right at the bottom of the healthy range so to speak. So I actually have to be careful to make sure I eat regularly(every four hours min) otherwise i get hypoglycemic.

[tropo]

Dieting can increase the real muscle loss and yes then it does get broken down. But only if you don't use it. What you are talking about i have experienced. I dieted hard once and all the glycocen was gone. I looked flat and not muscular. But after eating carbs it all came back in a few days.

Visually you may call it "real muscle loss". It is not real muscle loss and it doesn't get broken down. It's like deflating a balloon - the balloon doesn't disappear. Neither does the muscle.

[robblok]

@laislica,

Your insulin point is a good one, one that Tropo made with me a long time ago. I was living healthy and exercising a lot but still had some problems with fat. In the end it was my large bowls of oatmeal (over 120 grams at one sitting) that spiked my insulin. Even though oatmeal is considered ok.

I found out by bloodtests while i was not diabetic my scores were at the high part of the normal range. By changing how much oatmeal i ate at one sitting and buying a glucose meter i got valuable insight in my blood sugar levels. Now they are great, and i just test them once in a while if i added something new to my diet.

But also insulin is not only an enemy, its also helps building muscles. So we do need some of it just not in excess amounts. In a documentary about the akins diet they first thought the lack of carbs would make sure there was no insulin and excess calories would be excreted (ketose) but this was not the case.. or at least not in real large amounts.

How are the scores affected if you eat protein with the oatmeal? I actually have low blood sugar right at the bottom of the healthy range so to speak. So I actually have to be careful to make sure I eat regularly(every four hours min) otherwise i get hypoglycemic.

To be honest i did not check that because that meal was already filling all the caloric needs for it. If i added extra protein it would go over what i like to eat. But now i do eat oatmeal (around 60 grams) and 2 boiled eggs and the scores are much better.

I really never knew any better that wholewheat pasta and oatmeal were good so consuming a large meal of it never seemed wrong. Then i went to Pattya met with tropo and we had a blood test done. Just to see how my testosterone and thyroid and liver and sugar levels were (and many other things) Then it showed that i was still in the normal range but high up. While that is not dangerous now in the future it might have been. So i changed diet and bought a glucose meter. I used it to monitor new meals (i eat similar things a lot so its not that much or a problem) and see how i responded. Then after 1 or 2 months went to the lab again and i had major improvements. So diet does help.

My main changes were smaller carb meals and proteins with it.

[robblok]

Dieting can increase the real muscle loss and yes then it does get broken down. But only if you don't use it. What you are talking about i have experienced. I dieted hard once and all the glycocen was gone. I looked flat and not muscular. But after eating carbs it all came back in a few days.

Visually you may call it "real muscle loss". It is not real muscle loss and it doesn't get broken down. It's like deflating a balloon - the balloon doesn't disappear. Neither does the muscle.

I am still not sure about that, else why would they say that muscle mass and fat where both less in the test subjects. You might be right im not trying to fight here because im not sure 100% either.

But also why do bodybuilders then fear of being catabolic if it only means that glycocen is removed no real muscle is loss. Maybe we are talking about shrinkage because of glycocen and shrinkage because of no use (harder to get back)

[tropo]

@laislica,

Your insulin point is a good one, one that Tropo made with me a long time ago. I was living healthy and exercising a lot but still had some problems with fat. In the end it was my large bowls of oatmeal (over 120 grams at one sitting) that spiked my insulin. Even though oatmeal is considered ok.

I found out by bloodtests while i was not diabetic my scores were at the high part of the normal range. By changing how much oatmeal i ate at one sitting and buying a glucose meter i got valuable insight in my blood sugar levels. Now they are great, and i just test them once in a while if i added something new to my diet.

But also insulin is not only an enemy, its also helps building muscles. So we do need some of it just not in excess amounts. In a documentary about the akins diet they first thought the lack of carbs would make sure there was no insulin and excess calories would be excreted (ketose) but this was not the case.. or at least not in real large amounts.

How are the scores affected if you eat protein with the oatmeal? I actually have low blood sugar right at the bottom of the healthy range so to speak. So I actually have to be careful to make sure I eat regularly(every four hours min) otherwise i get hypoglycemic.

I eat my oats (and other carbs) with a big dose of protein straight after a 2 hour workout at the gym. 130 - 140 grams of carbs. 70 grams of protein. 1 hour BG - usually in the 90's but always under 110 mg/dl. This is the only time I will eat a big carb meal as it serves to quickly replenish muscle glycogen, thereby facilitating fast muscle recovery. I won't eat a meal like this after a cardio only session.

[Tolley]

@laislica,

Your insulin point is a good one, one that Tropo made with me a long time ago. I was living healthy and exercising a lot but still had some problems with fat. In the end it was my large bowls of oatmeal (over 120 grams at one sitting) that spiked my insulin. Even though oatmeal is considered ok.

I found out by bloodtests while i was not diabetic my scores were at the high part of the normal range. By changing how much oatmeal i ate at one sitting and buying a glucose meter i got valuable insight in my blood sugar levels. Now they are great, and i just test them once in a while if i added something new to my diet.

But also insulin is not only an enemy, its also helps building muscles. So we do need some of it just not in excess amounts. In a documentary about the akins diet they first thought the lack of carbs would make sure there was no insulin and excess calories would be excreted (ketose) but this was not the case.. or at least not in real large amounts.

How are the scores affected if you eat protein with the oatmeal? I actually have low blood sugar right at the bottom of the healthy range so to speak. So I actually have to be careful to make sure I eat regularly(every four hours min) otherwise i get hypoglycemic.

To be honest i did not check that because that meal was already filling all the caloric needs for it. If i added extra protein it would go over what i like to eat. But now i do eat oatmeal (around 60 grams) and 2 boiled eggs and the scores are much better.

I really never knew any better that wholewheat pasta and oatmeal were good so consuming a large meal of it never seemed wrong. Then i went to Pattya met with tropo and we had a blood test done. Just to see how my testosterone and thyroid and liver and sugar levels were (and many other things) Then it showed that i was still in the normal range but high up. While that is not dangerous now in the future it might have been. So i changed diet and bought a glucose meter. I used it to monitor new meals (i eat similar things a lot so its not that much or a problem) and see how i responded. Then after 1 or 2 months went to the lab again and i had major improvements. So diet does help.

My main changes were smaller carb meals and proteins with it.

Ok that is interesting. That is why when i eat oats or rice etc it is always accompanied by protein. I was thinking of doing the testosterone test while I have not much to do at the moment. Where did you get it done in Pattaya? I am sure there is a thread on it somewhere here as I remember reading about it.

[tropo]

Dieting can increase the real muscle loss and yes then it does get broken down. But only if you don't use it. What you are talking about i have experienced. I dieted hard once and all the glycocen was gone. I looked flat and not muscular. But after eating carbs it all came back in a few days.

Visually you may call it "real muscle loss". It is not real muscle loss and it doesn't get broken down. It's like deflating a balloon - the balloon doesn't disappear. Neither does the muscle.

I am still not sure about that, else why would they say that muscle mass and fat where both less in the test subjects. You might be right im not trying to fight here because im not sure 100% either.

But also why do bodybuilders then fear of being catabolic if it only means that glycocen is removed no real muscle is loss. Maybe we are talking about shrinkage because of glycocen and shrinkage because of no use (harder to get back)

Sure, if you did a scan, the muscle mass would be down if the glycogen stores are depleted. Energy stores are part of muscle mass. I'm just not calling it "real muscle loss", but temporary muscle loss which is easily restored.

Instinctively we know this, therefore we consider resistance training to be crucial on a calorie restricted diet.

[robblok]

@laislica,

Your insulin point is a good one, one that Tropo made with me a long time ago. I was living healthy and exercising a lot but still had some problems with fat. In the end it was my large bowls of oatmeal (over 120 grams at one sitting) that spiked my insulin. Even though oatmeal is considered ok.

I found out by bloodtests while i was not diabetic my scores were at the high part of the normal range. By changing how much oatmeal i ate at one sitting and buying a glucose meter i got valuable insight in my blood sugar levels. Now they are great, and i just test them once in a while if i added something new to my diet.

But also insulin is not only an enemy, its also helps building muscles. So we do need some of it just not in excess amounts. In a documentary about the akins diet they first thought the lack of carbs would make sure there was no insulin and excess calories would be excreted (ketose) but this was not the case.. or at least not in real large amounts.

How are the scores affected if you eat protein with the oatmeal? I actually have low blood sugar right at the bottom of the healthy range so to speak. So I actually have to be careful to make sure I eat regularly(every four hours min) otherwise i get hypoglycemic.

To be honest i did not check that because that meal was already filling all the caloric needs for it. If i added extra protein it would go over what i like to eat. But now i do eat oatmeal (around 60 grams) and 2 boiled eggs and the scores are much better.

I really never knew any better that wholewheat pasta and oatmeal were good so consuming a large meal of it never seemed wrong. Then i went to Pattya met with tropo and we had a blood test done. Just to see how my testosterone and thyroid and liver and sugar levels were (and many other things) Then it showed that i was still in the normal range but high up. While that is not dangerous now in the future it might have been. So i changed diet and bought a glucose meter. I used it to monitor new meals (i eat similar things a lot so its not that much or a problem) and see how i responded. Then after 1 or 2 months went to the lab again and i had major improvements. So diet does help.

My main changes were smaller carb meals and proteins with it.

Ok that is interesting. That is why when i eat oats or rice etc it is always accompanied by protein. I was thinking of doing the testosterone test while I have not much to do at the moment. Where did you get it done in Pattaya? I am sure there is a thread on it somewhere here as I remember reading about it.

Tropo can explain, he is monitoring this thread so he will chime in. Just checked my test results (you get them send in pdf by email) but the adress is in thai.

I would advise do some other basic tests too, they are not expensive. But just ask Tropo, i trust his judgement in this. He is way more advanced about testing then me. But im learning.

[Tolley]

If you get T tested does it make any difference what time of day you do the test?

I say this because your T is high in the morning and at around 2pm it is supposed to be at its lowest.

[robblok]

If you get T tested does it make any difference what time of day you do the test?

I say this because your T is high in the morning and at around 2pm it is supposed to be at its lowest.

I have always tested in the morning but mainly because i wanted my fasted bloodsugar tested too. I would say it would not make a big difference.

Pattaya lab

https://sites.google.com/a/pattaya-lab.com/www/

has google maps too

[Kalbo]

Sorry Disagree, my point is many posters have an axe to grind, point to prove or experience to brag about. Just like ex smokers, I know as I'm one myself

Surely the "I'm to fat forum" is here to motivate people to be healthier, to do things for them self.Give good advice share ideas and experiences.

Not simply state unless your medically unfit its down to you, you are eating to much. As many here would have you believe, not very helpful and down right demotivating for some.

It takes courage to get of your arse and do something to change habits of a lifetime. For some they turn to forums like this to give them confidence, then see responses from others to your question that are just plain wrong.

As for not drinking well done, I have done it myself for 2 years and it felt great keep it up.

But its the truth, why sugarcoat it. The only ones who can do something about it are the fat people themselves. I will always give all the support there is by telling them what is healthy and what can be changed.

But i wont sugarcoat it, they eat too much and (maybe) exercise too little if they are overweight.

Once they realize this they can start correcting it, using medical reasons as an excuse not to do a thing is not good at all. (unless they are really valid).

If they keep up drinking and eating the wrong things then who is to blame.. themselves.

But if they want to learn and want help they get it here always. People here give them advice. Problem is there is so much conflicting information and nobody including the experts know the right things. But we do know that alcohol is bad and many of the fast foods and sugar.

But if they are not willing to see they have to change because its their lifestyle then there is no point.

I have a friend who is constantly complaining about his slow metabolism, and how he exercises so much, but just can't seem to lose weight etc etc, and admittedly he is visibly overweight. So, one day, i went to see him, at his house and during the course of our conversation, of a duration of maybe 2 hours, he'd eaten packets of oreos, 2 bags of potato chips, 2 cans of coke and loads of little chocolates. Anyways, after I saw that I have no time for him when he wants to complain about his weight.

[laislica]

Wow, this thread is turning into a very useful resource.

Thanks Guys, I am learning a lot.

It's interesting seeing that you found yourself at the high end of the range.

I am at the high end of my age range and there is nothing I can do about that

Well, other than staying as focused as I can on being fit and healthy.

I have friends, in their 30's (half my age), who cannot keep up with me, so what ever I'm not doing, seems to be working

I can say for sure, it doesn't get easier as you get older!

[robblok]

Wow, this thread is turning into a very useful resource.

Thanks Guys, I am learning a lot.

It's interesting seeing that you found yourself at the high end of the range.

I am at the high end of my age range and there is nothing I can do about that

Well, other than staying as focused as I can on being fit and healthy.

I have friends, in their 30's (half my age), who cannot keep up with me, so what ever I'm not doing, seems to be working

I can say for sure, it doesn't get easier as you get older!

That high end of the range of normal still means your ok and healthy according to the medical profession. But its not optimal for weight loss (at least in the case of the insulin / bloodsugar) high en of testostorone would be good

[laislica]

Here's something that some of you younger Guys might like.

[robblok]

Just an update about me, it might help others too. I count my calories and watch my food intake. However i was hungry all the time, real annoying feeling and makes it hard to concentrate. Now i was eating 2000-2300 calories on a day. So no freak diets.

Anyway i was constantly thinking of food, i still had some reduce 15mg tablets here. Before i thought they did not work. But after taking them for a few days the hunger feeling is gone. I actually have to remind myself to eat. (much better).

Just one note, it could be that im sick because been feeling not that great the last couple of days headaches and such. But i will keep you guys informed. If this really helps it would be great for me. I keep my to diet, but this way it would be a bit more comfortable.

[billd766]

Just an update about me, it might help others too. I count my calories and watch my food intake. However i was hungry all the time, real annoying feeling and makes it hard to concentrate. Now i was eating 2000-2300 calories on a day. So no freak diets.

Anyway i was constantly thinking of food, i still had some reduce 15mg tablets here. Before i thought they did not work. But after taking them for a few days the hunger feeling is gone. I actually have to remind myself to eat. (much better).

Just one note, it could be that im sick because been feeling not that great the last couple of days headaches and such. But i will keep you guys informed. If this really helps it would be great for me. I keep my to diet, but this way it would be a bit more comfortable.

I am still fat and happy just in case you thought I had forgotten you.

[robblok]

Just an update about me, it might help others too. I count my calories and watch my food intake. However i was hungry all the time, real annoying feeling and makes it hard to concentrate. Now i was eating 2000-2300 calories on a day. So no freak diets.

Anyway i was constantly thinking of food, i still had some reduce 15mg tablets here. Before i thought they did not work. But after taking them for a few days the hunger feeling is gone. I actually have to remind myself to eat. (much better).

Just one note, it could be that im sick because been feeling not that great the last couple of days headaches and such. But i will keep you guys informed. If this really helps it would be great for me. I keep my to diet, but this way it would be a bit more comfortable.

I am still fat and happy just in case you thought I had forgotten you.

Are you not confusing me with Tropo ? Unless its not a negative comment.

[cowslip]

whatever the reason for eating, you can't get fat without actually putting food into your body; it doesn't come from nowhere. ....and in truth there is relatively VERY little variation in people's metabolic rates.

THey DO say that fat people are relatively less active than average though.

[cowslip]

it has been suggested that over 80% of Americans are dehydrated to a greater or lesser degree, largely due to diet and eating habits, they then mistake this feeling for one of hunger and eat more as a result.

[robblok]

I beg to differ about the metabolic rate, there is about a 20% difference between the upper and lower range. Seen enough studies pointing at that. I got some documentaries to support it if you are interested. But still, if you know you got a slower rate just eat less.