Deet Did Not Kill Canadian Sisters Audrey And Noemi Belanger: Krabi

[moskito]

just found this--interesting piece--

http://www.npr.org/2...ons?ft=1&f=1001

sorry neighbor, but what is intresting in it and which word of the OP have you not understand?

[davidstipek]

"Thai authorities took the matter quickly into hand and, working together with the Canadian Embassy, investigated the deaths thoroughly and completed a series of forensic exams to establish the cause of death before the sisters were returned to their homeland."

.Really? that's NOT the impression I got

Annabel I agree with you.

Why if they completely worked with Canadian Officials to Solve this case Is the Canadian Coroner Disagreeing completely with the Thai Police Findings????? This doesn't sound like They couperated with the correct Canadian People, the ones who have the responsibility to Answer to the Family of the deceased.

here is an interesting link:

http://www.npr.org/2...ons?ft=1&f=1001

Also an audio of this Poison Expert who is and continuing to monitor and review this case. Aparently she is one of the most renown Poison Experts in the World...

you can click and save as it is open to public downloads, I cannot paste the audio file here if you go to this link you can listen or download Maybe someone else can figue how to paste audio file you people can hear.... here

http://www.npr.org/2...ons?ft=1&f=1001

Edited October 22, 2012 by davidstipek

[Jayman]

Here is the audio clip from NPR.

20121020_atc_06.mp3

[annabel]

_{PART 2 and the Continued Report from the Investigators who went to the Palms Hotel in Phiphi and Krabi}

_{Were the rooms excessively sprayed..? When we went to Phiphi for our investigation we went to stay at the same hotel. The room where they had stayed was under renovation and new mattress' were in the hall waiting to be put in the room. We rented the room above ( 203 ) .. We wanted to know if the hotel uses Pesticides and if yes, which ones and it what quantity. Before leaving Quebec an expert explained to us how to dust and take various samples for traces of Pesticides, and the material required to do so. We took samples everywhere from the mattress to the headboard, the floor and even the Air Conditioning. These samples were to be analyzed in a laboratory on our return.}

_{At the hotel the young receptionist was instructed to not talk about the 2 sisters death to anybody, however she answered some of our questions but was very nervous. She said that the 1st morning a maid went to knock on the door and asked if they would be staying another night and says that one of the sisters replied YES....?? Never read this in any other report..?.... This would mean that they were still alive Wednesday morning..?? She wouldn't say more to us after this...}

_{Carl Belanger's comments to this was ...Why is it that when they knocked on the door Thursday and Friday morning they not also ask if they would be staying another night..? This makes no sense at all and I can assure you my daughters were already dead on Wednesday morning... He said he is drawing this conclusion from the report he got from the findings of the Quebec Police investigation wherein it claims they died somewhere between 4 am and 10 am Wednesday morning.}

_{The Doctor from the Phiphi hospital was one of the first ones to enter the room. She told them she could give them an interview but that there were no signs of violence.. only vomit. That night we went to the same Slinky Bar however the police were around and there was no dancing or partying and Slinky Bar was CLOSED... Nobody could tell us why nor since when..??}

_{We realized we would not find out much more here so we went off to Krabi.We went to the hospital where their bodies were brought. They told us about the advanced stage of decomposition the bodies were in when they arrived. On the video you can hear the Thai Hospital guy saying this is because they are young and the death was not a natural one..? Fingers, toes and lips were blue.}

_{Carl Belanger then says it''s criminal the way Thailand handled all of this... The first crime was to wait for 3 days before opening the room door, and the 2nd crime was to push the bodies in a corner letting them rot there till they could get them to Krabi. They kept the bodies for 5 days refusing to give them to the Canadian Authorities ( The newspapers here at the time said the parents had instructed an autopsy to be done here... Looks like that is another big lie..? )... The whole family feels like Thailand is HIDING something... If you have nothing to hide you move on something serious like this to find out what is at the bottom of it... you don't delay things like they did and beat around the bush as they did all the way. If you want to protect your tourism then you should get to the bottom or it ..NOT HIDE IT!}

_{We went to the police to ask about the investigation but the officer in charge told us through an interpreter that he could not discuss it with us that is was because is was TOP SECRET and we asked Why is it TOP SECRET...Who told you / asked you to not talk about this case and they reply CANADIAN EMBASSY... You can view this exchange on the video about 4 minutes into the video... They are speaking in English. You can't see the officer in charge .. only the interpreter but just the stupid smile on his face makes one realize that it's all a big joke to them.}

_{We went back to the hospital in Krabi and the Director said impossible to be Pesticides as if it were the case then other people would have gotten sick and / or died and he suggests that it could be Magic Mmushrooms.... to which the parents said no way they would try any kind of drugs... we knew our daughters well enough to know that for sure.}

_{END OF PART 2................}

[canuckamuck]

Thanks Annabel for all of this information, I am sure everyone really appreciates it, except those who are trying to cover this up.

[annabel]

Last one ... Part 3... Had to get through this and done today... It's just getting too weird ! Even on the Canadian side...

Part 3 of Radio - Canada's investigation

With all these hypothesis' in hand we left for Bangkok. This is where the autopsy was done and the pathologist told us that he just finished his report but will not give us an interview. However he said I can tell you our conclusion is that they were intoxicated with DEET. He said he examined the blood, vomit and whatever and found 15 point something in Audrey and 33.7 Micrograms per liter in Noemi ( I have no clue about how high or low this is but sounds low to me ) and he said these quantities are deadly. What to think of these results..?? How can somebody have DEET in their blood... Ok, I am skipping a bit here because it just goes on about how the drinks especially the 4 x 100 in these places served in buckets have DEET in them... The funny thing they say is that the buckets are a popular drink made of coke, cough syrup, deet and the Kratom leaf which is very popular with Muslims who are not allowed to drink alchool as it gives the same effect as drinking alcohol...? . I thought there was alcohol in them ..?? ... Even the girl, Viviane, who was partying with them and who is again interviewed here in part 3 later says... It was Rum and coke but not sure what else..??

Viviane who is interviewed here again confirms that they all shared the buckets ... her, Audrey, Noemi, the Brazilian guys.. all of them and they all drank out of the same bucket. They asked her if it was Rum & Coke and she said well the first one was I think and the other ones, I'm not sure but tasted like that, She claims she was absolutely fine.. not even sick or feeling sick. SO if it was the buckets with Deet that killed them ...Why only them ??? Even the parents made this comment when this was explained to them .. Why only our 2 girls .. This is yet more rubbish from Thailand he says...

Renee Roussel the Quebec coroner also says it's rubbish ... She is also refusing to give an interview but confirmed that there is no way it was DEET. The Canadian Director, Dr. Blais, of the anti-poison center in Quebec also agreed .. Rubbish! The amounts found couldn't even be toxic let alone deadly. The small concentration they had in their blood is most likely from them applying mosquito repellent. We contacted the doctor in Thailand who did the Autopsy and he finally agrees that the amount of deet found wasn't really that high but that's because it probably evaporated before the autopsy ( God even these guys can't tell the truth or don't know what they are doing.... Oye!?) Dr. Blais thereafter said there are no scientific reports of any kind showing that the amount of DEET in blood would evaporate after death.

When we met Renee Roussel she said that at this point she was following a few other leads also.....(And here is a bit of a shocker !!) But what she didn't tell us is that 5 days before we met her she had the authorities seize and confiscate the samples we brought back from Thailand and which we had sent to a laboratory for examination ...???? She justified this action by saying that this material is essential to her investigation even though she was guarantied to also get the results. This has now blocked our investigation. Our samples have till now still not been analyzed so WE cannot continue our lead for now...

Further to this, 3 months later the 2 Brazilians had still not been questioned by the Surete du Quebec ( Quebec Police) and the Coroner Renee Roussel has just recently asked the parents to give her the personal clothing and items the girls wore and used during their trip.......?? ( I honestly don't know what to say or think here..?? This is all turning out to be so weird...?? I don't want to make any comments but the wheels are turning.....)

The parents they say seem to be losing hope on ever finding out the truth and are getting more and more demoralized ... ( Hell so would I...)

We asked them are you going to do...? The father said ... I don't know but I don't want to see the pictures of other parents children on the front page of a newspaper having had the same fate,... my daughters deaths must at least serve something and that is to not have other parents go through what we have and are still going through.. we must get to the bottom end of it .. we need strength and a lot of it but we have to continue!

Unfortunately two more mysterious deaths happened 2 weeks after the Belanger sisters but in Vietnam .... a Canadian and an American and this time the claim is that it is was a mysterious virus in one case and ???? in the other case ... UNKNOWN...! ??

And then they just give the statistics of mysterious deaths in Thailand since 2009 .... 12 people... mysterious deaths... mostly young women and causes of course = UNKNOWN ... and all the local authorities lips buckled ... What is being hidden...??? Is it being hidden to protect tourism...??

We at Radio - Canada are contesting in the court the seizure by Renee Roussel ( Oye... here we go !! Even in Canada ... Politics ) of the samples our teams brought back from Thailand. We will definitely get back to the public as soon as we manage to get our own analysis done. As for the death of the 2 sisters I guess we will find out more when the coroner gives her report in a few months ...

Well this is it for now ....! OUF!!!

[annabel]

CORRECTION IN THE 3RD PART ... where it says = "We contacted the doctor in Thailand who did the Autopsy" It should have said = we contacted the doctor in Thailand who did the autopsy AGAIN...

[Jayman]

Thanks for taking the time to translate that for us all Annabel. It's truly a crazy story and I would love to have some closure for the family. Losing a child is tragic but without closure on the cause I fear they will be slow to recover from their painful loss.

[Nisa]

http://www.nationmul...i-30191614.html

Case closed on deaths of Canadian sisters in Krabi

Audrey, 20, and Noemi, 25, from Quebec, were found dead in their hotel room on Phi Phi Island on June 15. Both had suffered a violent physical reaction to suspected poisoning.

Autopsies conducted by forensic police identified that both women had ingested an undisclosed amount of the insecticide DEET, possible from a "party cocktail" known locally as "Four times 100". The regular form the "cocktail", however, does not contain DEET or any insecticide.

"We have been asked by the Canadian Embassy and the [belanger] family to not reveal anything about the case. We are standing by that. The cause of death in the police report to the embassy is "Unknown"," Lt Col Jongrak Pimthong of Krabi City Police told the Phuket Gazette today.

"We are now preparing the documents to be sent to the Canadian Embassy. I have informed them that the case is closed. All the official documents will be sent today as soon as we finished copying them," he added.

All police investigations related to the case will cease, including any attempt to question the man last seen with the two sisters before their were found dead.

The CCTV system at the resort where the women were staying captured images of an unidentified man assisting the sisters back to their room in the early hours of June 13.

"We did not question the man since he does not live in Thailand, and the two sisters' relatives requested that we did not question him after seeing the CCTV records," Col Jongrak said

However, Krabi Police will continue to check the drinks being served at night entertainment venues.

"If we find anything suspicious, we will report it to Krabi Public Health Office to investigate," Col Jongrak said.

"As I said, no further information related to the case will be released, at the request of the embassy and the family. If the embassy would like to reveal anything further, they will hold a press conference on it," he added.

[Jayman]

^^^^ all lies... very sad to see they keep reposting this trash.

[Nisa]

Even when eminent toxicologists pointed out that the amount a person would have to digest for them to die from Deet poisoning was massive, they were sidelined.

The effects resulting from intentional ingestion are variable, due to the different scenarios in which they occurred. Of the six reported cases of deliberate DEET ingestion, three led to death. In these cases,

the amount ingested was 15-50 mL of 47.5% to 95% DEET in bottles. In two cases, bottles of DEET were drunk along with unspecified amounts of alcohol.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/consultations/deet/health-effects.html

A typical shot glass can contains 1.5 oz. or 44 ml of liquid (DEET in this case). In other words 1-shout glass of 100% DEET can be fatal (especially if mixed with alcohol). How does this equal "massive amounts" ?

A 4 OZ (118ml) bottle of 100% DEET

Edited October 26, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Despite the OP being from the 11th and the request from the family and embassy for a gag order, it appears as of the 19th, the police are still saying it was DEET that was responsible for the girls death.

KRABI, 19 October 2012: Krabi police confirmed DEET, a neurotoxic mosquito repellent, caused the deaths of Canadian sisters, Audrey and Noemi Belanger.

Krabi Police Lieutenant, Vitsawa Saneha, who was the case investigation head told TTR Weekly that according to an official autopsy, late last month, the chemical DEET was responsible for the deaths of the sisters.

“The autopsy indicated there were traces of DEET in their bodies and it was the cause of death.”

However, he did not reveal details other than to confirm the cause of death that has been the subject of speculation with contradictory statements made in Thailand and Canada.

http://www.ttrweekly.com/site/2012/10/deet-identified-as-killer/

Edited October 26, 2012 by Nisa

[Jayman]

Nisa, the family did not ask for a gag order. Please stop proliferating this untruth.

[Nisa]

Nisa, the family did not ask for a gag order. Please stop proliferating this untruth.

That is very interesting since the embassy and the police have both been stating this for months. Interesting that the autopsy reports are not made public when it has been shared with the embassy and Canadian investigators and the family. The parents are without doubt are entitled to the reports from Thailand turned over to the embassy but yet they have not shared them with the media. So, it would seem reality goes hand in hand with the on going reports they and the embassy have requested Thai authorities not to release any information.

If they family didn't want the information kept from the public then it wouldn't be both in Thailand and Canada where even in Canada they site privacy laws about releasing information. But a family is the one who can give or deny permission for such information to be released.

It would seem to me that at this point the family has no credibility if they are claiming they want this information public and have not made a request through their embassy for the information to be kept private.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[laislica]

That's no story. They also didn't drown. Who cares what DIDN'T lead to their deaths? The question is...what did. Why print a story that tells nothing at all? That's news? They also weren't attacked by white sharks! What a story!

I agree, no story there.

I also agree that TV members needn't snoop around looking for more. Their parents have requested no more be made public, and there is a good reason for that. They don't want their daughters' images spoiled, so let's respect that.

Why do people jump in and make the same ridiculous statements that were made many days ago and which were PROVEN FALSE .... Go back and read the facts please and then state again ... I am reposting # 118 from the previous thread so you all get this one fact straight ! THE PARENTS MADE NO SUCH REQUEST AND NOR DID THE CANADIAN EMBASSY !

It's all lies from the TRP..... Nor The family nor the Canadian Embassy have requested the investigation to be stopped... on the contrary the father is furious about this and said he will go to all ends to find out the truth.

My friends in Quebec sent me these 3 links of different media reports and they all say the same thing.

http://quebec.huffin..._n_1935286.html

http://www.radio-can...fermeture.shtml This one has a video of their father being interviwed and here again he is denouncing that he never asked for the results or details of the investigation be withheld nor the investigation stopped...!

http://www.lapresse....-ses-filles.php

Here are a few extracts from the last link above.... everything is in French so I will translate just a few important parts.

«C'est ce à quoi je m'attendais. J'ai toujours dit que la conclusion de leur enquête serait une cause inconnue. Ils ont tout fait pour éliminer les preuves avant que l'autopsie soit pratiquée, alors c'était à prévoir», affirme M. Bélanger, en faisant référence au délai qui s'est écoulé entre la découverte des corps de ses filles dans leur chambre d'hôtel et l'autopsie pratiquée en Thaïlande, période suffisante selon lui pour éliminer toute trace de produit toxique dans leur corps."

This is what I expected. I always said that their investigation would be concluded as " Cause Unknown" They did everything to eliminate important proof prior to the autopsy so this result had to be expected., referring to the delay that occured from when the bodies were found in the hotel room to when the autopsy was finally done in Thailand... a period long enough to eliminate all traces of toxic products in their bodies"

«Beaucoup de questions demeurent en suspens et c'est pourquoi l'enquête menée ici par la Sûreté du Québec doit se poursuivre. Deux filles dans la vingtaine qui entrent dans leur chambre d'hôtel en parfaite santé et n'en ressortent pas, pour moi, ce n'est pas une raison inconnue. À peine une semaine après leur décès, nous étions incapables de les identifier. Elles ne s'étaient tout de même pas fait frapper par un train», a dit M. Bélanger au Soleil, ajoutant ne pouvoir commenter davantage pour ne pas nuire à l'enquête, «qui va bien».

Their father also said "Many questions remained unanswered and that is why the investigation here by the Quebec Police must continue. Two girls in their 20's enter their room totally healthy and never come out again to me is not "AN UNKNOWN CAUSE:. Barely 1 week after their death we could not even identify them ! THEY WERE NOT HIT BY A TRAIN ! I will not say more at this point as I do not want to jeapordize the investigation which is progressing very well."

Il nie toutefois avoir demandé aux autorités thaïlandaises de ne révéler aucun détail sur l'affaire, comme l'écrit l'article du quotidien thaïlandais citant le lieutenant-colonel Jongrak Pimthong de la police de Krabi. «Ce n'est pas vrai. Ce n'est pas nous qui avons demandé ça. Au contraire, nous voulons savoir ce qui s'est passé.»

He absolutely denies having asked the Thai authorities to stop the investigation and to not reveal any details. He says "It's not true...! It is certainly not us who have asked this. On the very contrary WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED"

«Nous ne le rencontrerons pas, puisqu'il ne vit pas en Thaïlande, et la famille nous a demandé de ne pas l'interroger», poursuit le lieutenant-colonel Jongrak. «C'est faux, rétorque M. Bélanger. De toute manière, les policiers ici connaissent son identité. Il est polonais et sera probablement rencontré par Interpol.In reference to the man who accompanied them back to the room he said " The police in Thailand said they will not question him as he does not live in Thailand and that we asked them not to question him, THIS IS NOT TRUE...said Mr. Belanger ..Anyway the police here know his identity and he will mostly be interrogated by Interpol"

«Notre vie est brisée à jamais, et chaque retour de cette affaire dans l'actualité nous démolit un peu plus. Qu'elles soient mortes est déjà épouvantable et que nous ne sachions pas la cause de leur décès est encore plus dur, mais je vous assure que nous voulons savoir et nous irons jusqu'au bout.»

Renée Roussel, la coroner québécoise au dossier, ne déposera son rapport final sur l'autopsie pratiquée au Québec que dans plusieurs semaines.

Our life is broken for ever and everyday it kills us a little more. That they are dead is unbearable as it is but to not even know the CAUSE is even harder but I can assure you that we want to and must KNOW and we will go to all ends to find out".... It will still take many weeks to get the final results from the Quebec Autopsy.

I am reposting #79 in an effort to get the truth told.

At the moment there is a content not found error on the interview of the parents.

However, I watched the video when it was available and the parents want to hear the truth, there is no way they want the truth to be suppressed!

[Nisa]

I am reposting #79 in an effort to get the truth told.

At the moment there is a content not found error on the interview of the parents.

However, I watched the video when it was available and the parents want to hear the truth, there is no way they want the truth to be suppressed!

They may want the truth but what is very clear by their actions is they don't want information released -- at the very minimum they want to control what info is publicly released which is clearly an indication they want "their" truth to be told. The only people preventing the autopsy reports from being publicly released is the family and this fact pretty much cannot be argued.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[laislica]

I am reposting #79 in an effort to get the truth told.

At the moment there is a content not found error on the interview of the parents.

However, I watched the video when it was available and the parents want to hear the truth, there is no way they want the truth to be suppressed!

They may want the truth but what is very clear by their actions is they don't want information released -- at the very minimum they want to control what info is publicly released which is clearly an indication they want "their" truth to be told. The only people preventing the autopsy reports from being publicly released is the family and this fact pretty much cannot be argued.

Did you watch the video?

[Jayman]

Nisa, please show an official statement from the Canadian embassy supporting your claim that information is being suppressed at their or the families request.

[Nisa]

I am reposting #79 in an effort to get the truth told.

At the moment there is a content not found error on the interview of the parents.

However, I watched the video when it was available and the parents want to hear the truth, there is no way they want the truth to be suppressed!

They may want the truth but what is very clear by their actions is they don't want information released -- at the very minimum they want to control what info is publicly released which is clearly an indication they want "their" truth to be told. The only people preventing the autopsy reports from being publicly released is the family and this fact pretty much cannot be argued.

Did you watch the video?

Have the parents released the autopsy info? Have they given their release to anybody to do so?

[Nisa]

Nisa, please show an official statement from the Canadian embassy supporting your claim that information is being suppressed at their or the families request.

I neither work for the police nor the embassy and common sense should tell you I would not be privy to such statements. So, your request is simply a way to distract from the blatantly obvious. There is simply no disputing that if the family wants the information released they can release it. I am not going to get into slamming the poor parents who have to go through the pain of losing two daughters but try to use some common sense here and understand it is very hard for parents to come to terms with such an event and it is very normal as part of the process if they need to blame somebody and they need to protect the images of their daughter and based on numbers things stated, they need this to be more than just a simple case of two girls dying through the use of drugs which turned out to be bad drugs.

But lets not pretend the reality isn't that they are in full control about releasing the medical reports from both Thailand and Canada ... they have them and if they wanted them to be released they simply need to turn them over to the press.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

I am reposting #79 in an effort to get the truth told.

At the moment there is a content not found error on the interview of the parents.

However, I watched the video when it was available and the parents want to hear the truth, there is no way they want the truth to be suppressed!

They may want the truth but what is very clear by their actions is they don't want information released -- at the very minimum they want to control what info is publicly released which is clearly an indication they want "their" truth to be told. The only people preventing the autopsy reports from being publicly released is the family and this fact pretty much cannot be argued.

Did you watch the video?

Have the parents released to the press the medical findings they have been given?

[laislica]

I am reposting #79 in an effort to get the truth told.

At the moment there is a content not found error on the interview of the parents.

However, I watched the video when it was available and the parents want to hear the truth, there is no way they want the truth to be suppressed!

They may want the truth but what is very clear by their actions is they don't want information released -- at the very minimum they want to control what info is publicly released which is clearly an indication they want "their" truth to be told. The only people preventing the autopsy reports from being publicly released is the family and this fact pretty much cannot be argued.

Did you watch the video?

Have the parents released to the press the medical findings they have been given?

Please answer my question - did you watch the video?

Also what info were the parents given?

[Jayman]

MJ

Nisa, please show an official statement from the Canadian embassy supporting your claim that information is being suppressed at their or the families request.

I neither work for the police nor the embassy and common sense should tell you I would not be privy to such statements. So, your request is simply a way to distract from the blatantly obvious. There is simply no disputing that if the family wants the information released they can release it. I am not going to get into slamming the poor parents who have to go through the pain of losing two daughters but try to use some common sense here and understand it is very hard for parents to come to terms with such an event and it is very normal as part of the process if they need to blame somebody and they need to protect the images of their daughter and based on numbers things stated, they need this to be more than just a simple case of two girls dying through the use of drugs which turned out to be bad drugs.

But lets not pretend the reality isn't that they are in full control about releasing the medical reports from both Thailand and Canada ... they have them and if they wanted them to be released they simply need to turn them over to the press.

Well common sense says people don't drink deet. Yet you keep repeating it like they did.

Nor does that 4 x 100 drink get made with deet or any other pesticides.

Also that the Thai police never questioned the 2 men that were with the girls had nothing to do with any request from the parents and certainly nothing to do with common sense.

I think Nisa is just making assumptions using what he calls common sense but the fact is that the basis for his assumptions is incorrect and hence so are his assumptions.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Jayman

[cowslip]

Apparently DEET was not the cause?

THis article is interesting...

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/11/your-daughter-died/

[Nisa]

MJ

Nisa, please show an official statement from the Canadian embassy supporting your claim that information is being suppressed at their or the families request.

I neither work for the police nor the embassy and common sense should tell you I would not be privy to such statements. So, your request is simply a way to distract from the blatantly obvious. There is simply no disputing that if the family wants the information released they can release it. I am not going to get into slamming the poor parents who have to go through the pain of losing two daughters but try to use some common sense here and understand it is very hard for parents to come to terms with such an event and it is very normal as part of the process if they need to blame somebody and they need to protect the images of their daughter and based on numbers things stated, they need this to be more than just a simple case of two girls dying through the use of drugs which turned out to be bad drugs.

But lets not pretend the reality isn't that they are in full control about releasing the medical reports from both Thailand and Canada ... they have them and if they wanted them to be released they simply need to turn them over to the press.

Well common sense says people don't drink deet. Yet you keep repeating it like they did.

Nor does that 4 x 100 drink get made with deet or any other pesticides.

Also that the Thai police never questioned the 2 men that were with the girls had nothing to do with any request from the parents and certainly nothing to do with common sense.

I think Nisa is just making assumptions using what he calls common sense but the fact is that the basis for his assumptions is incorrect and hence so are his assumptions.

Common sense says people don't drink any poison but we know they do both on purpose and accidentally and the results are thousands of deaths a year. In fact, 30,000+ people die in just the US each year from ACCIDENTAL Poisoning which is defined as not having the intent to take poison (not that they were murdered) ... this accounts for near 80% of all poisoning deaths there. So, I am baffled by your constant rational that they could not have been poisoned because they wouldn't have taken poison.

As for DEET not being an ingredient of variations of 4x100 is not accurate according to numerous news reports both local and international. Regardless, it is a concoction of numerous ingredients and not made in a factory or is there any oversight on the ingredients. In fact, it is generally made by morons with whatever they have access to and believe will cause a high.

Based on numerous news reports and official statements, it is clear the family didn't trust Thai authorities and didn't want them releasing any further information publicly and wanted the investigation to be done in Canada. Officials have stated that after the parents were shown a picture of one of the men, the family asked police not to pursue this avenue but the report didn't indicate why but that certainly doesn't mean there wasn't a reason. The bottom line is if you dig a little deeper, you'll find these girls were known for being a bit wild in their home town and although there is certainly nothing wrong with this, it is understandable the family would like to have somebody to blame and protect the image of their deceased daughters.

By the way, all sorts of chemicals are used to make and process drugs including things like kerosine, acid and drain cleaner but when somebody is ingesting speed or coke, their intent isn't to ingest other deadly poisons but if not processed properly they run this risk when taking illegal drugs made by amateurs.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Phuket: US scientist suggests new theory for Canadian sisters’ deaths

http://www.thephuketnews.com/us-scientist-suggests-new-theory-for-canadian-sisters%E2%80%99-deaths-34612.php

[cobra]

_{... Dr James Moss has proposed a different hypothesis to The Phuket News: that Deet has “beta adrenergic agonist activity”. In layman’s terms, this means that Deet by itself, and See Koon Loy by itself, would not kill.}

_{But the two in combination might ...}

_{So then, Deet would still appear to be involved, ?}

Edited November 29, 2012 by cobra

[Nisa]

_{... Dr James Moss has proposed a different hypothesis to The Phuket News: that Deet has “beta adrenergic agonist activity”. In layman’s terms, this means that Deet by itself, and See Koon Loy by itself, would not kill.}

_{But the two in combination might ...}

_{So then, Deet would still appear to be involved, ?}

I also found the following a bit interesting ...

An official of Thailand’s Central Forensic Institute, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that she did not know where the reports saying Thai scientists had pinpointed Deet as the cause of death had come from.

“Deet was only one element in the deaths,” she said, but she declined to give further information, adding that the gag order was still in place.

Doesn't appear there was a ever a claim by officials to indicate DEET was the sole cause of death as opposed to a contributing factor or that it didn't interact with something else. If I recall the original reports about DEET were from a reporter who looked at the autopsy findings and may not have fully understood what he was reading.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Il nie toutefois avoir demandé aux autorités thaïlandaises de ne révéler aucun détail sur l'affaire, comme l'écrit l'article du quotidien thaïlandais citant le lieutenant-colonel Jongrak Pimthong de la police de Krabi. «Ce n'est pas vrai. Ce n'est pas nous qui avons demandé ça. Au contraire, nous voulons savoir ce qui s'est passé.»

He absolutely denies having asked the Thai authorities to stop the investigation and to not reveal any details. He says "It's not true...! It is certainly not us who have asked this. On the very contrary WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED"

This is a bit misleading as they have requested information not be released publicly and even the Canadian officials have stated in writing (See: Phuket Wan article By Alan Morison Friday, September 28, 2012) they will not make their findings public because of privacy laws which the family can waive. Clearly (and understandably) the family do not want information released publicly as they have not given permission. Their embassy, as reported numerous times, in Thailand have also requested officials in Thailand not make information public and provide only the embassy with their findings. Clearly the family wouldn't request anything directly from Thai authorities as protocol would be to go through the embassy. It is understandable the family only wants what they believe to be true to be released as well as protecting the image of their daughters as well as certainly being in a fragile emotional state having lost both their daughters ... for these reasons, you need to be a bit skeptical of their claims and not because they are lying but because they are extremely biased and seeing things in a way that brings them the most comfort even if that means finding somebody to blame.

[Nisa]

And why if Canadian officials are sure DEET was not involved did Canada put out a travel advisory to its citizens traveling to Thailand that that there have been recent reported cases of poisoning allegedly linked to the consumption of a Thai beverage containing DEET.