Sin Sod Question Please Advise

[Chittychangchang]

I have a Thai friend whose 23 year old son will be marrying the daughter of a couple who own a jewelery shop and manufactory in Bangkok. He's expecting to have to negotiate upwards of a million baht dowry.

That's fair enough!

It shows the future son in law has means and is not marrying their daughter for her parents wealth

[chris1dna]

What happened to that guy? Maybe he already knew the answer to his question?

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[how241]

How long have you lived with this woman on a day to day basis?

I'm not talking about chatting on the net, flying over to meet her family, and then being given a bill to marry her.

The money is not the issue here. It sounds like you don't actually know her. That is the issue.

+1....slow down....no need to maryy so quickly...if there are true feelings on HER part, she will gladly wait....YOUR the Big 'catch', not her....Your in Thailand now.

[TommoPhysicist]

OP hasn't been back ...... looks like another troll post.

[David48]

OP hasn't been back ...... looks like another troll post.

TP, I understand.

He sent me a long PM (really long) and a troll wouldn't go to that trouble.

Guy seems genuine, so give him the benefit of the doubt and your best advice please ...

[TommoPhysicist]

Guy seems genuine, so give him the benefit of the doubt and your best advice please ...

My best advice would be to pay sin sot AFTER the wedding.

25k a month for four months, starting 1 month after the wedding.

She gets some cash, and you get at least four months of fun.

Then if it doesn't work out, you both got what you wanted.

No mention of her assets?

I'm guessing she has nothing ..... so what happened to the last sin sot?

Edited October 22, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[CTO]

<<If she has been married before no sin sod should be paid.>>

Someone should tell the Thai's in my village, many THAI girls getting married to THAI males, and the couple are having to pay Sin Sod. One case where I asked it was to prove "They can save money as a couple and are serious" Half to the parents, half returned after the wedding, amount was less than 30K baht cash (Not gold 555).

One couple was FANTASTIC! It was two people both over 60! She had no parents left alive but the locals insisted they pay a Sin Sod as a declaration of their love! Very funny, apparently childhood sweethearts who had been through arranged marriages to someone else, both spouses dead so they cam back together after 45 years + !

Seriously we need to tell the Thais here how their traditions work!

Me - I paid 1500 baht - $50, over the years spent far more than that on the family helping raise kids, send them to Uni etc etc, and when times where tough, the family put the farm in the "Bank" and lent me the money!

Moral - I'd lend my Thai family money in a heartbeat - I wouldn't pay Sin Sod other than a small "Token" or under the strict understanding it was being given back to "US" as a couple. mum and Dad if they are respected by the son-il-law will be looked after over time,

[rgs2001uk]

OP hasn't been back ...... looks like another troll post.

TP, I understand.

He sent me a long PM (really long) and a troll wouldn't go to that trouble.

Guy seems genuine, so give him the benefit of the doubt and your best advice please ...

OP hasn't been back ...... looks like another troll post.

TP, I understand.

He sent me a long PM (really long) and a troll wouldn't go to that trouble.

Guy seems genuine, so give him the benefit of the doubt and your best advice please ...

Poor guy is probably shattered and heart broken after reading the replies.

He may well be feeling bemused, confused and betrayed, nothing more than an innocent abroad.

At least he now has the option of continuing with this one, or moving onto the next one a lot wiser than he was with this one.

Plenty of fish in the sea over here.

[Baerboxer]

NO CASH, please beware or you will crash.

Yes - be careful. I married in Thailand. My wife has a very nice large diamond engagement ring, a set of diamond and set of gold jewellery which I bought for her. This was displayed at the wedding. We married in Bangkok and had a relgious ceremony followed by a later evening reception, both at a good four star hotel so quite expensive. We gave a large amount of money to my in-laws, which they gave back to my wife the next day. This was counted infront of everyone and made a big show of - but it was all for show and went straight into a friend's safe for the evening.

I chose to give my in-laws a small gift each, which they were very appreciative. I did not give the various cousins, sister's husband's family or any of the other hangers on anything, although they all came and enjoyed the reception. My father in law promised he would give us some land after a year's marriage. Sure enough, after a year he gave 2 sizeable well positioned chunks and the deeds were changed to my wife's name. I had spent time getting to know my wife, and her imediate family. Please do the same to avoid future pain. I have seen several people cleaned out by scheming Thai families.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Baerboxer

[marstons]

I agreed to match what the previous Thai husband and father of her child paid 0 baht gold or money. I am English its not my custom, why is it the thai culture side always seem to be raised. A visa for the USA is more than sufficent, if thats not enough walk away, theres a long line waiting for a deal like that. Mid 30's 1 child options are very limited. Many of the staff in 7/11 and fast food outlets and supermarkets also have degree's. College degree not upto a Uni degree not that should have anything to do with it IMHO. i would already be letting my fingers do the Walking on the web.

[ianwuk]

My first reaction is, you don’t know Thailand or your potential bride well enough to get married yet. Sounds like the beginning of another long tragic tale of misunderstandings and broken dreams.

Sadly, I thought the same thing also. Try to wait at least 1 - 2 years before getting married. If there is a rush then it may be that your girl's parents/in-laws are trying to milk you for as much as they can and as quickly as they can meaning that your marriage, and I hate to say this, will be lucky to last a year.

[chris1dna]

OP hasn't been back ...... looks like another troll post.

TP, I understand.

He sent me a long PM (really long) and a troll wouldn't go to that trouble.

Guy seems genuine, so give him the benefit of the doubt and your best advice please ...

Yeah. He sent me a fairly pithy and dismissive pm as well. Guess he didn't like my suggestion that if you have to ask then u might be in too deep for ones own good so ta speak. Then offered some article like it was the sin sod bible. I also suggested the possibility that if he can't afford a sin sod perhaps this wasn't the place to be then. To each his own I guess. I happen to believe its the Thai way or the highway. I knew my wife a year before we married. This was over twelve years ago. Paid a 100k sin sod and she was previously married to a thai guy. no kids. It was understood the 100k was for show but I gave it to the parents anyway as a sign of respect and good faith. Suggested he not quibble over this. If one is having feelings of doubt and concerns of getting taken this soon in a relationship, then I proffered that this is not a good omen. He didn't want to hear that. I suggested that he pi$$ o££ and take his own advice then. Havnt heard from him since.

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[Pormax]

OP hasn't been back ...... looks like another troll post.

TP, I understand.

He sent me a long PM (really long) and a troll wouldn't go to that trouble.

Guy seems genuine, so give him the benefit of the doubt and your best advice please ...

Yeah. He sent me a fairly pithy and dismissive pm as well. Guess he didn't like my suggestion that if you have to ask then u might be in too deep for ones own good so ta speak. Then offered some article like it was the sin sod bible. I also suggested the possibility that if he can't afford a sin sod perhaps this wasn't the place to be then. To each his own I guess. I happen to believe its the Thai way or the highway. I knew my wife a year before we married. This was over twelve years ago. Paid a 100k sin sod and she was previously married to a thai guy. no kids. It was understood the 100k was for show but I gave it to the parents anyway as a sign of respect and good faith. Suggested he not quibble over this. If one is having feelings of doubt and concerns of getting taken this soon in a relationship, then I proffered that this is not a good omen. He didn't want to hear that. I suggested that he pi$$ o££ and take his own advice then. Havnt heard from him since.

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i have to agree with the above, TP and Chris1dna.

If one starts a post asking for advice then you have to take the good and bad comments.

Not everyone has the same opinion and many on this forum will have negative thoughts to pass on, while some will try and give useful information/thoughts. That is there perogative as long as the reply is not rude or abusive.

If you only want to hear what you think is the right thing to do why do a post anyway because it seems you have made up your mind the action you want to take..

Edited October 23, 2012 by Pormax

[surin]

My first reaction is, you don’t know Thailand or your potential bride well enough to get married yet. Sounds like the beginning of another long tragic tale of misunderstandings and broken dreams.

So so true! It is rubbish to even think that you pay anything at all for a wife. You'll be paying her and her family forever anyway. Make sure you have a pre-nuptial agreement and if you buy land, make sure you have a Usufruct in place. I did and now count my blessings every day, but I'm one of the lucky ones!

[David48]

My first reaction is, you don’t know Thailand or your potential bride well enough to get married yet. Sounds like the beginning of another long tragic tale of misunderstandings and broken dreams.

So so true! It is rubbish to even think that you pay anything at all for a wife. You'll be paying her and her family forever anyway. Make sure you have a pre-nuptial agreement and if you buy land, make sure you have a Usufruct in place. I did and now count my blessings every day, but I'm one of the lucky ones! (my bolding)

"It is rubbish to even think that you pay anything at all for a wife."

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and hopefully learn from their experiences here in Thailand.

However, if you think that sin sot 'buys' a wife ... then you have a serious misunderstanding of the custom and Thai Culture.

A pre-nup and the Usufruct is thoughtful advice however.

.

[MAJIC]

If you feel the need to give a Sin Sod when many on this thread have given good reasons why you need not, i.e married before,etc,

Then at least in the midst of the demands,remember the old saying : "He who pays the Piper calls the tune"

[marstons]

http://usa.siam-legal.com/family-law/thai-dowry.php May help explain it all for the OP

[David48]

http://usa.siam-lega.../thai-dowry.php May help explain it all for the OP

I haven't read that particular article before ... some solid advice there ...

.

[agrg]

I've been here for 3 years now, with my gf for 2. I understand that it is an important part of the culture for her parents. My gf understands this is not part of my culture at all and that I won't take a single penny from my parents to pay sin sod. Our compromise is to pay half each, her parents have agreed to give back most of it after the ceremony along with a chunk of land for us to live on and start up a small business.

Do I agree with the practice, no. I'm looking to stay there and look after her family with her so the justification that it must be given as compensation for taking a pair of hands away from the house hold is moot. But It keeps everyone happy, there's no point in objecting to Thai culture in Thailand, if you want farang culture go to farangland.

Bar girls on the other hand...sure you can have a relationship with someone that rents their body for money, but don't expect the meter to stop running.

[TommoPhysicist]

I've been here for 3 years now, with my gf for 2. I understand that it is an important part of the culture for her parents. My gf understands this is not part of my culture at all and that I won't take a single penny from my parents to pay sin sod. Our compromise is to pay half each, her parents have agreed to give back most of it after the ceremony along with a chunk of land for us to live on and start up a small business.

Do I agree with the practice, no. I'm looking to stay there and look after her family with her so the justification that it must be given as compensation for taking a pair of hands away from the house hold is moot. But It keeps everyone happy, there's no point in objecting to Thai culture in Thailand, if you want farang culture go to farangland.

Bar girls on the other hand...sure you can have a relationship with someone that rents their body for money, but don't expect the meter to stop running.

So let me get this right, their current offer is to let you spend your money on a business for their daughter on their land, nothing in there for you, that I can see. I suggest they give, YOU personally, a 30 year lease on the land so YOU can start a business in YOUR name before the wedding. Promises are easily forgotten when if relationships go bad, a lease registered at the land office is harder to forget.

And as an alternative point of view to your "if you want farang culture go to farangland", how about "if your girlfriend wants Thai culture she should have got herself a Thai boyfriend husband".

The funny thing about Thai/western culture (as explained by acquisitive Thais) is that it always ends up with foreign men giving stuff to Thai women. In reality the Thai tradition is for a Thai wife to own absolutely nothing, and everything they own to be transferred into the name of the Thai husband.

You might also want to look into Amphur wedding Vs village wedding, as the village wedding does nothing for you at all (apart from giving a huge party for people who you don't know and wouldn't much like if you did know them).

Edited November 19, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[agrg]

So let me get this right, their current offer is to let you spend your money on a business for their daughter on their land, nothtng in there for you, that I can see. I suggest they give, YOU personally, a 30 year lease on the land so YOU can start a business in YOUR name before the wedding. Promises are easily forgotten when if relationships go bad, a lease registered at the land office is harder to forget.

And as an alternative point of view to your "if you want farang culture go to farangland", how about "if your girlfriend wants Thai culture she should have got herself a Thai boyfriend husband".

The funny thing about Thai/western culture (as explained by acquisitive Thais) is that it always ends up with foreign men giving stuff to Thai women. In reality the Thai tradition is for a Thai wife to own absolutely nothing, and everything they own to be transferred into the name of the Thai husband.

You might also want to look into Amphur wedding Vs village wedding, as the village wedding does nothing for you at all (apart from giving a huge party for people who you don't know and wouldn't much like if you did know them).

If we were getting married in the UK we would not have a Thai wedding. But I intend to get married and stay in Thailand so I think a Thai wedding following Thai customs is appropriate.

No OUR money would be used to start a business would be to support US and OUR family. Not given to her.

A wedding anywhere doesn't really get you anything except married. The idea behind it is to keep everyone happy, not material gain for myself.

Why do you assume I wouldn't like like the people, generally I find locals round here to be far more pleasant company than the couple of creepy foreigners i know of.

No offence but if I was as synical as you I wouldn't be considering marrige full stop.

Edited November 19, 2012 by agrg

[transam]

If we were getting married in the UK we would not have a Thai wedding. But I intend to get married and stay in Thailand so I think a Thai wedding following Thai customs is appropriate.

No the business would be to support US and OUR family. Not given to her.

A wedding anywhere doesn't really get you anything except married. The idea behind it is to keep everyone happy, not material gain for myself.

Why do you assume I wouldn't like like the people, generally I find locals round here to be far more pleasant company than the couple of creepy foreigners i know of.

No offence but if I was as synical as you I wouldn't be considering marrige full stop.

Think you have quite a bit to learn.

[TommoPhysicist]

No OUR money would be used to start a business would be to support US and OUR family. Not given to her.

Unfortunately her family, who will be many and all around you, won't see things the same way.

Her family business, on her family land ............ they don't even need the police to remove you from the premises.

Of course things don't always end that way, but they do end that way often enough that you should at least consider the future not being the idyllic rural dream that you currently contemplate.

Edited November 19, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[transam]

No OUR money would be used to start a business would be to support US and OUR family. Not given to her.

Unfortunately her family, who will be many and all around you, won't see things the same way.

Her family business, on her family land ............ they don't even need the police to remove you from the premises.

Of course things don't always end that way, but they do end that way often enough that you should at least consider the future not being the idyllic rural dream that you currently contemplate.

Well, l must say Tommo, posts like yours really tell it how it is as WE have seen.

So, 10 out of 10 from me.

My input is, keep your eyes wide open, NOT wide shut.

[agrg]

Sound advice. I intend to. I am well aware of the fate of a lot of farang who came here.

"Consider that things might not work out", sure. I'm putting in nothing that i can't afford to lose. But if you EXPECT things not to work out you really have to ask what is the point of trying?

I'm not one of these old dudes who can't get a wife back home because of his various personality defects who comes here thinking a girl half his age and weight genuinely loves him.

We are both in our 20s and take home roughly the same salary, we both speak each others language and both want to build a future together. A pretty normal couple besides the different nationality.

[TommoPhysicist]

I'm not one of these old dudes who can't get a wife back home because of his various personality defects who comes here thinking a girl half his age and weight genuinely loves him.

Yet I am one of these old dudes who can't get a wife back home (if I may add, young enough for me to fancy, rather than having personality defects on either side). Yep she loves me for my money (about 10Kbht a month), but I love her for her house, her farm and her childbearing ability (not to mention the marriage VISA extension).

BUT

No reason for me to be silly with my limited money.

Enjoy yourself, have a great time, but be careful, it's a dog eat dog world out here (or was that Vietnam?).

[agrg]

Fair enough, all the best to the two of you.

I think the vietnamese eat the dogs themselves, but I know what you mean, naivety can be a very costly trait here.

[Mason45]

My wife to be at the time wasn't to happy about me refusing to pay the Sin Sod, I told her I'll contribute my share of what her 10 siblings give mom and dad every month which was jack shit. 10 years on as we know Thais are full of piss and wind its never been mentioned again. My wife was married for 16 years before her husband got killed on his bike. Of course when we visit them up north we stock up at the market, buy a box of Chang, a large Kao Lao and a packet of smokes, if they want more they buy their own. The trouble with Thais up north is they invite everyone in the village knowing that when they're broke thet can always scratch a drink from someone.

[Blackandwhite]

Hey, if your telling the truth and you think she is worth it and you have disposal income then forget the money and take your risk. Yes you should pay sin sod, no you should not, who really cares. Just go ahead. It does seam that in Asia it is expected that if you can afford to pay you should. I am not here to judge or advise but if it was me I would go for a compromise based on the fact it does sound like lots of money and that in your culture this does not happen and make your offer to fall in line with culture and expectations of the family and wishes of your partner.

[bostonboy]

I knew my wife for 5 years before we got married

she was married before and had a 7 year old son

to be honest, she knew me well enough to not even consider mentioning sin sot

but after 9 years together she realizes that we are doing it the right way

-no show house in village. we will buy a proper house in an area we really want to live in

-her son and mom have 1st class health insurance that all the show off girls in the village never bother to worry about

-her son goes to an upper middle class school that teaches proper enlish

-anything that her son needs ( sport fees, etc..) is a non question, she knows it will be provided. He's a great kid that appreciates everything we give him

as someone else said

you are in control of what you want to provide

you don't have to be a miser but just lay it all out what you are willing to do and what you are not willing to do

my wife knows i adore her and love and she knows i'd walk away tomorrow if i felt she wasn't in the marriage for the right reasons or didn't appreciate what i do for her and our overall relationship( i appreciate what she adds to the relationship)

Edited April 8, 2013 by bostonboy