Thailand's War With The Uk

[MAJIC]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

Or put another way: it can be S**t as long as it's consistant S**t !

[chiangmaikelly]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

Or put another way: it can be S**t as long as it's consistant S**t !

Stop the flaming for a minute. I am trying to understand you.

Lets say there is only one car company in Thailand and they make two cars a year. One is for domestic consumption and the other is for export. (which is proportionately correct 50/50 domestic and export).

The export car has to compete among other cars at the going competitive rate say 10,000. The other car is sold locally for twice the going rate of 20,000.

Is this what you are trying to say?

[theblether]

If the Thai labour costs were the same as British labour costs there would be zero vehicle production in Thailand.

A long thread to point out the obvious eh cmk?

If Thai labour costs were the same as the UK, then there would still be plenty of manufacturing here, as the tariffs far outweigh the ten or twenty or thirty percent that would add on to the cost of the vehicle. On the other hand, if Thai labour costs were that high, there would be the incentive for an even greater level of automation, and more skilled people involved.

Furthermore, if Thai wages were the same as UK, vehicle sales would be higher...

Sometimes, answers are not obvious.

SC

..........and the cars would be getting built in Burma.

And then taxed at 100+% when they were imported to Thailand?

The level of free trade within ASEAN is not that great, or you would see a lot more protons in Thailand (and fewer Japanese assembly plants in Malaysia, since labour is cheaper in Thailand)

They are (attempting?) to move towards a EU style model of tariff free borders within ASEAN. We'll see if it happens in our lifetimes, if at all .

[transam]

OP, lets close it. There is no war as you stated. Manufacturers places of assembly are purely financial. End of story.

LOS does not design, tool up or manufacture a Thai motor for the world market.

If wages rose in LOS, then LOS will not produce other guys rides.

[theblether]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

Or put another way: it can be S**t as long as it's consistant S**t !

Stop the flaming for a minute. I am trying to understand you.

Lets say there is only one car company in Thailand and they make two cars a year. One is for domestic consumption and the other is for export. (which is proportionately correct 50/50 domestic and export).

The export car has to compete among other cars at the going competitive rate say 10,000. The other car is sold locally for twice the going rate of 20,000.

Is this what you are trying to say?

I find it hard to believe you can't work out what is being said to you re the effect of tariffs.

However I know your struggling to debate with two people at the same time so I'll butt out.

[MAJIC]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

Or put another way: it can be S**t as long as it's consistant S**t !

Stop the flaming for a minute. I am trying to understand you.

Lets say there is only one car company in Thailand and they make two cars a year. One is for domestic consumption and the other is for export. (which is proportionately correct 50/50 domestic and export).

The export car has to compete among other cars at the going competitive rate say 10,000. The other car is sold locally for twice the going rate of 20,000.

Is this what you are trying to say?

A comment is not necessarily a flame.

[StreetCowboy]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

Or put another way: it can be S**t as long as it's consistant S**t !

Stop the flaming for a minute. I am trying to understand you.

Lets say there is only one car company in Thailand and they make two cars a year. One is for domestic consumption and the other is for export. (which is proportionately correct 50/50 domestic and export).

The export car has to compete among other cars at the going competitive rate say 10,000. The other car is sold locally for twice the going rate of 20,000.

Is this what you are trying to say?

Correct.

[StreetCowboy]

...

If Thai labour costs were the same as the UK, then there would still be plenty of manufacturing here, as the tariffs far outweigh the ten or twenty or thirty percent that would add on to the cost of the vehicle. On the other hand, if Thai labour costs were that high, there would be the incentive for an even greater level of automation, and more skilled people involved.

Furthermore, if Thai wages were the same as UK, vehicle sales would be higher...

Sometimes, answers are not obvious.

SC

..........and the cars would be getting built in Burma.

And then taxed at 100+% when they were imported to Thailand?

The level of free trade within ASEAN is not that great, or you would see a lot more protons in Thailand (and fewer Japanese assembly plants in Malaysia, since labour is cheaper in Thailand)

They are (attempting?) to move towards a EU style model of tariff free borders within ASEAN. We'll see if it happens in our lifetimes, if at all .

Furthermore, there's only so much money you can save with cheap labour. Once you've moved to Thailand to trim your labour cost from 15% to 10% say, then the lack of a supplier base, poor roads, transport, power, water infrastructure, unreliable government, lack of a local market, mean that its not worth trying to save another couple of percent by going to Vietnam, or a few more percent by going to Burma. It's only worth moving somewhere else for cheap labour if your robots can still be as productive.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

Or put another way: it can be S**t as long as it's consistant S**t !

Given the crowds in Macdonalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken, it would be a brave and foolish man who would go in there and say "you're all shit-eaters". You or I might be too much of a snob to go there, but there's plenty of people have the humility to appreciate a restaurant where they can quickly order something that they know they will enjoy, that will be served quickly, and meet all their expectations. And with a plastic toy, to boot.

Personally, I eat in Subway.

Quality management is about delivering to the customer what he wants, meeting or exceeding expectations. Repeat business is achieved when the customer's expectations are consistently met or exceeded. Mcdonalds, and Subway, seem to do that consistently. Proton, and the car leasing company that I deal with, are consistently doing that, and I recommend them whenever a friend or colleague is looking for a car.

My proton's not a particularly good car, but it is the equal of cars that I could lease for a quarter again as much and it has never let me down (tempting fate, I know...)

SC

[rattler]

In your OP you said production now you say sales, which is it? Sorry should have guessed whichever figures can be used to bash the UK.

I should have paid attention to my own earlier post and not fed the Troll

Either one. You don't make cars that you don't sell. At least not in Thailand. We can bash Detroit for a while if you like? My point is that Thailand is overtaking car production and sales in the UK. I don't think it will do that to the US because the US is too large a domestic market.

two words "easy credit"

[MAJIC]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

Or put another way: it can be S**t as long as it's consistant S**t !

Given the crowds in Macdonalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken, it would be a brave and foolish man who would go in there and say "you're all shit-eaters". You or I might be too much of a snob to go there, but there's plenty of people have the humility to appreciate a restaurant where they can quickly order something that they know they will enjoy, that will be served quickly, and meet all their expectations. And with a plastic toy, to boot.

Personally, I eat in Subway.

Quality management is about delivering to the customer what he wants, meeting or exceeding expectations. Repeat business is achieved when the customer's expectations are consistently met or exceeded. Mcdonalds, and Subway, seem to do that consistently. Proton, and the car leasing company that I deal with, are consistently doing that, and I recommend them whenever a friend or colleague is looking for a car.

My proton's not a particularly good car, but it is the equal of cars that I could lease for a quarter again as much and it has never let me down (tempting fate, I know...)

SC

And of course I eat Junk Food on occasions,no matter where you go in the World Mc D is consistant,and you get what you expect,the same as last time,but can never be called a memorable meal.

[Mark1971]

I am finding it difficult to debate two of you at the same time about the same subject. Could you come up with a spokesperson.

CMK this is a forum not a debate.

At its best this forum is about sharing information in a positive way.

Your thread title & the contents of your posts come across with a negative tone in my opinion.

As you don't know the backgound of the people posting here, please try to listen more & argue less.

Some of the people posting here may be experts in this area.

[chiangmaikelly]

I am finding it difficult to debate two of you at the same time about the same subject. Could you come up with a spokesperson.

CMK this is a forum not a debate.

At its best this forum is about sharing information in a positive way.

Your thread title & the contents of your posts come across with a negative tone in my opinion.

As you don't know the backgound of the people posting here, please try to listen more & argue less.

Some of the people posting here may be experts in this area.

The General forum is a debate. After you have been around for a while that fact will dawn on you. And If you think I'm nuts; last week two posters debated what time noon was for three days. Until you get acquainted try reading some of the older posters who live in Thailand and they will clue you in. Nice to see you taking such an authoritative stance so early in your posting career though. It is great that you should take it upon yourself to tell a poster who has been posting on Thai Visa since 2008 how to do it. Just think all those years without your advice.

Edited October 18, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[chiangmaikelly]

My original point was that Thailand would surpass the UK in vehicle production. Most of this debate has centered around other issues. But I really don't think anyone has presented any evidence to the contrary that the original premise that Thailand would produce more vehicles than the UK either this year or in very short order has been disproved.

But I have learned a lot.

1. 
   No one cares about how many cars Thailand produces. 2. Thailand is not producing vehicles fairly (Marquess of Queensberry rules of business), don't you know. 3. If anyone did care Thailand would not be producing very good cars and trucks. 4. Thai people can design beautiful cars like the Jaguar new F type pictured #331 but no one wants to talk about it here. 5. The prevailing wisdom is that everything good that happens in Thailand especially from a technical standpoint is imported from another country (preferably a Western country).
   

The last point, that taxation helps Thailand produce and sell vehicles I am still working on. I have not figured out how the Thai government getting tax revenue helps Ford make cars. But I am working on it.

[phutoie2]

Jolly good for you, when you have worked it all out please let us know the result of this "war with the UK".

Take your time, the English fought a war with the French that lasted over a hundred years, we can hang on for a bit.

[chiangmaikelly]

Jolly good for you, when you have worked it all out please let us know the result of this "war with the UK".

Take your time, the English fought a war with the French that lasted over a hundred years, we can hang on for a bit.

Yes, I appreciate that. And there is the Scottish thing now. Gee how long has that been going on for?

[JurgenG]

Jolly good for you, when you have worked it all out please let us know the result of this "war with the UK".

Take your time, the English fought a war with the French that lasted over a hundred years, we can hang on for a bit.

Agree with you, no hurry. This thread is the first thing I check when I log in ThaiVisa, I'll miss it when it ends

CMK, have you think of the subject of your next thread ? SC has started something about the fast food industry. When it comes to food, Thailand definitively plays in the major league. It would be interesting to know what team UK has to reply to that

[chiangmaikelly]

Jolly good for you, when you have worked it all out please let us know the result of this "war with the UK".

Take your time, the English fought a war with the French that lasted over a hundred years, we can hang on for a bit.

Agree with you, no hurry. This thread is the first thing I check when I log in ThaiVisa, I'll miss it when it ends

CMK, have you think of the subject of your next thread ? SC has started something about the fast food industry. When it comes to food, Thailand definitively plays in the major league. It would be interesting to know what team UK has to reply to that

You do know that they eat fried Mars bars in the UK.

[JurgenG]

Jolly good for you, when you have worked it all out please let us know the result of this "war with the UK".

Take your time, the English fought a war with the French that lasted over a hundred years, we can hang on for a bit.

Agree with you, no hurry. This thread is the first thing I check when I log in ThaiVisa, I'll miss it when it ends

CMK, have you think of the subject of your next thread ? SC has started something about the fast food industry. When it comes to food, Thailand definitively plays in the major league. It would be interesting to know what team UK has to reply to that

You do know that they eat fried Mars bars in the UK.

I watched a couple of time Masterchef UK and I knew it was bad, but I didn't realized it was THAT bad.

Compared to the delicacies you can find in Thailand

But as they say : food, women and weather, the origins of a great nation of seafarers

_

[GuestHouse]

The death of the UK car industry is reported here.

[http://m.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/16/uk-car-industry-rise-production?cat=business&type=article]

[samran]

My original point was that Thailand would surpass the UK in vehicle production. Most of this debate has centered around other issues. But I really don't think anyone has presented any evidence to the contrary that the original premise that Thailand would produce more vehicles than the UK either this year or in very short order has been disproved.

But I have learned a lot.

1. 
   No one cares about how many cars Thailand produces. 2. Thailand is not producing vehicles fairly (Marquess of Queensberry rules of business), don't you know. 3. If anyone did care Thailand would not be producing very good cars and trucks. 4. Thai people can design beautiful cars like the Jaguar new F type pictured #331 but no one wants to talk about it here. 5. The prevailing wisdom is that everything good that happens in Thailand especially from a technical standpoint is imported from another country (preferably a Western country).
   

The last point, that taxation helps Thailand produce and sell vehicles I am still working on. I have not figured out how the Thai government getting tax revenue helps Ford make cars. But I am working on it.

gawd.....

You really can't figure out how a tariff wall works or how BOI incentives would make Ford want to produce here?

[GuestHouse]

Now the UK car industry is dead the vultures strip the assets and condem British car making to its grave.... But fools throw good money after bad!

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19493796]

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19753833]

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19659909]

Fools refusing to listen to sad old man in Chiang Mai risk loosing huge amounts of money backing the dead horse of UK car manufacturing !

[samran]

Watch out Guesthouse. Can't trust those lefto, pinko, hippy tree hugging media outlets such as The Guardian and the BBC.

They fail to report the obvious blitzkreig being unleashed on it by the Thai auto sector.

[chiangmaikelly]

Now the UK car industry is dead the vultures strip the assets and condem British car making to its grave.... But fools throw good money after bad!

["]http://www.bbc.co.uk...iness-19493796]

["]http://www.bbc.co.uk...iness-19753833]

["]http://www.bbc.co.uk...iness-19659909]

Fools refusing to listen to sad old man in Chiang Mai risk loosing huge amounts of money backing the dead horse of UK car manufacturing !

The links don't work for me but are you talking about the Jag F type that one designed by the Thai guy?

[chiangmaikelly]

My original point was that Thailand would surpass the UK in vehicle production. Most of this debate has centered around other issues. But I really don't think anyone has presented any evidence to the contrary that the original premise that Thailand would produce more vehicles than the UK either this year or in very short order has been disproved.

But I have learned a lot.

1. 
   No one cares about how many cars Thailand produces. 2. Thailand is not producing vehicles fairly (Marquess of Queensberry rules of business), don't you know. 3. If anyone did care Thailand would not be producing very good cars and trucks. 4. Thai people can design beautiful cars like the Jaguar new F type pictured #331 but no one wants to talk about it here. 5. The prevailing wisdom is that everything good that happens in Thailand especially from a technical standpoint is imported from another country (preferably a Western country).
   

The last point, that taxation helps Thailand produce and sell vehicles I am still working on. I have not figured out how the Thai government getting tax revenue helps Ford make cars. But I am working on it.

gawd.....

You really can't figure out how a tariff wall works or how BOI incentives would make Ford want to produce here?

The UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada would all love to have the business Thai Thailand has. The country of Thailand put no money up front to get it. They didn't pay Ford to get the business. Do you mean to tell me that Thailand is smarter than the UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada? You mean that Thailand through a few import taxes can generate the sales of 2 million vehicles? Wow. That is cool.

First GH starts bragging about Thai design expertise and now you are telling me the government of Thailand is smarter than the UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada! Wow, just wow.

[samran]

My original point was that Thailand would surpass the UK in vehicle production. Most of this debate has centered around other issues. But I really don't think anyone has presented any evidence to the contrary that the original premise that Thailand would produce more vehicles than the UK either this year or in very short order has been disproved.

But I have learned a lot.

1. 
   No one cares about how many cars Thailand produces. 2. Thailand is not producing vehicles fairly (Marquess of Queensberry rules of business), don't you know. 3. If anyone did care Thailand would not be producing very good cars and trucks. 4. Thai people can design beautiful cars like the Jaguar new F type pictured #331 but no one wants to talk about it here. 5. The prevailing wisdom is that everything good that happens in Thailand especially from a technical standpoint is imported from another country (preferably a Western country).
   

The last point, that taxation helps Thailand produce and sell vehicles I am still working on. I have not figured out how the Thai government getting tax revenue helps Ford make cars. But I am working on it.

gawd.....

You really can't figure out how a tariff wall works or how BOI incentives would make Ford want to produce here?

The UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada would all love to have the business Thai Thailand has. The country of Thailand put no money up front to get it. They didn't pay Ford to get the business. Do you mean to tell me that Thailand is smarter than the UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada? You mean that Thailand through a few import taxes can generate the sales of 2 million vehicles? Wow. That is cool.

First GH starts bragging about Thai design expertise and now you are telling me the government of Thailand is smarter than the UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada! Wow, just wow.

In energy and autos, Thailand has been pretty clever.

But BOI incentives inevitably are the attraction in establishing first mover advantage to make it the natural base for production in SE Asia.

What is so hard to understand about that?

[chiangmaikelly]

My original point was that Thailand would surpass the UK in vehicle production. Most of this debate has centered around other issues. But I really don't think anyone has presented any evidence to the contrary that the original premise that Thailand would produce more vehicles than the UK either this year or in very short order has been disproved.

But I have learned a lot.

1. 
   No one cares about how many cars Thailand produces. 2. Thailand is not producing vehicles fairly (Marquess of Queensberry rules of business), don't you know. 3. If anyone did care Thailand would not be producing very good cars and trucks. 4. Thai people can design beautiful cars like the Jaguar new F type pictured #331 but no one wants to talk about it here. 5. The prevailing wisdom is that everything good that happens in Thailand especially from a technical standpoint is imported from another country (preferably a Western country).
   

The last point, that taxation helps Thailand produce and sell vehicles I am still working on. I have not figured out how the Thai government getting tax revenue helps Ford make cars. But I am working on it.

gawd.....

You really can't figure out how a tariff wall works or how BOI incentives would make Ford want to produce here?

The UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada would all love to have the business Thai Thailand has. The country of Thailand put no money up front to get it. They didn't pay Ford to get the business. Do you mean to tell me that Thailand is smarter than the UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada? You mean that Thailand through a few import taxes can generate the sales of 2 million vehicles? Wow. That is cool.

First GH starts bragging about Thai design expertise and now you are telling me the government of Thailand is smarter than the UK, US, China, Russia, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Canada! Wow, just wow.

In energy and autos, Thailand has been pretty clever.

But BOI incentives inevitably are the attraction in establishing first mover advantage to make it the natural base for production in SE Asia.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Nothing. I understand it. You understand it. Odd that Thailand can do it so much better at such a large competitive advantage over so many other countries. If that really is the advantage. Not education, work ethic or innovation but a simple import tax and incentives by the Thai government.

[farang000999]

Kinda funny that CMK has gone to great lengths to talk about how the American car industry is dying when it is only the American Detroit brands that have struggled. Foreign brands assembled in the USA have done fine. So apparently, Hondas assembled in the USA are not apart of the American car industry yet Hondas assembled in Thailand are in fact part of the Thai car industry and Honda has succeeded because of Thai engineering. That makes a ton of sense.

[chiangmaikelly]

Kinda funny that CMK has gone to great lengths to talk about how the American car industry is dying when it is only the American Detroit brands that have struggled. Foreign brands assembled in the USA have done fine. So apparently, Hondas assembled in the USA are not apart of the American car industry yet Hondas assembled in Thailand are in fact part of the Thai car industry and Honda has succeeded because of Thai engineering. That makes a ton of sense.

Perhaps you should look at the title of the thread. I only mentioned the US because some of the problems are the same. Detroit at one time was paying $75 per hour for a union assembly worker. The Japanese companies negotiated different contracts. The same thing happened when the foreign manufactures took over the UK auto brands. Ford however is still owned by Ford. If you would like to start a new topic comparing the US auto industry with the Thai industry I suggest you start one. However the UK is much closer in production numbers so it is logical to compare those two. Also the UK and Thailand are closer in population so imported vs domestic consumption will be closer. I hope you understand my choice.

Plus I really don't see any current autos in the US to compete with the type F Jag designed by that Thai fellow.

[transam]

Kinda funny that CMK has gone to great lengths to talk about how the American car industry is dying when it is only the American Detroit brands that have struggled. Foreign brands assembled in the USA have done fine. So apparently, Hondas assembled in the USA are not apart of the American car industry yet Hondas assembled in Thailand are in fact part of the Thai car industry and Honda has succeeded because of Thai engineering. That makes a ton of sense.

Perhaps you should look at the title of the thread. I only mentioned the US because some of the problems are the same. Detroit at one time was paying $75 per hour for a union assembly worker. The Japanese companies negotiated different contracts. The same thing happened when the foreign manufactures took over the UK auto brands. Ford however is still owned by Ford. If you would like to start a new topic comparing the US auto industry with the Thai industry I suggest you start one. However the UK is much closer in production numbers so it is logical to compare those two. Also the UK and Thailand are closer in population so imported vs domestic consumption will be closer. I hope you understand my choice.

Plus I really don't see any current autos in the US to compete with the type F Jag designed by that Thai fellow.

Is he 100% Thai or 60/40 or 80/20 or 99/1. Just curious.