Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum

[jpinx]

The rules for obtaining a UK passport are laid out by the UKBA and apply to residents/citizens/nationalities of EVERY country in the world. A newly independent Scotland will have it's own Scottish passport issuing office and will set their own rules, just like any other country in the world. Anyone who meets the criteria can apply for a Scottish passport.

Everyone one the electoral roll for the independence vote will obviously be eligible for a Scottish passport regardless of whether they voted yes or no. For the immediate processing of Scots who are abroad at the time of the vote, the beaurocrats need to sort out a period of transition from UK to Scottish passport, temporary passport issuing, sharing of Embassy services abroad, and many other purely administrative tasks. As I have said previously, they is what beaurocrats are for.

I suggest one looks at the criteria for any European country and substitute the world "Scotland" as appropriate and you will have a better understanding of how passport issuance and therefore nationality, citizenship, etc. all work. Think of USA where a person from Thailand can gain full citizenship and passport after lengthy processing, or Germany where one has to have had German parentage going back for some generations.

I guess the question is do the Scots want to be truly independent or just hang on to the UK's apron strings?

The Scottish vote is for true independence. Scotland has been "devolved" from London's government for some time already. That period has been when Scotland was finding its feet and now they have decided they want to be totally independent.

[Richard W]

The rules for obtaining a UK passport are laid out by the UKBA and apply to residents/citizens/nationalities of EVERY country in the world. A newly independent Scotland will have it's own Scottish passport issuing office and will set their own rules, just like any other country in the world. Anyone who meets the criteria can apply for a Scottish passport.

Everyone on the electoral roll for the independence vote will obviously be eligible for a Scottish passport regardless of whether they voted yes or no.

What's not obvious is who will have Scottish citizenship and who will have rUK citizenship. I would be amazed and horrified if there were British citizens who did not wind up with one or the other. However, it is not obvious to me that a 2014 electoral register should be used to qualify Italians and Australians for Scottish citizenship. What is this statement based on?

[Richard W]

The Scottish vote is for true independence. Scotland has been "devolved" from London's government for some time already. That period has been when Scotland was finding its feet and now they have decided they want to be totally independent.

No they haven't! The referendum isn't expected until late 2014.

[Richard W]

Scots abroad will get their pensions from the new Scottish exchequer.

What is the basis for this statement? What will happen for dual Scottish/rUK nationals? Will they get the full pension from each government?

[jpinx]

The rules for obtaining a UK passport are laid out by the UKBA and apply to residents/citizens/nationalities of EVERY country in the world. A newly independent Scotland will have it's own Scottish passport issuing office and will set their own rules, just like any other country in the world. Anyone who meets the criteria can apply for a Scottish passport.

Everyone on the electoral roll for the independence vote will obviously be eligible for a Scottish passport regardless of whether they voted yes or no.

What's not obvious is who will have Scottish citizenship and who will have rUK citizenship. I would be amazed and horrified if there were British citizens who did not wind up with one or the other. However, it is not obvious to me that a 2014 electoral register should be used to qualify Italians and Australians for Scottish citizenship. What is this statement based on?

The rules for eligibility for a rUK passport are most likely to be the same as the current UKBA rules, with the exception that "birthright" will be reduced to England, Wales and N.Ireland. That includes all the Jamaicans, Barbadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Australians, Kiwis, Isrealis, etc who have there families there - and undoubtedly in the same spirit of fairness that UK uses, this will be extended to cover Scots who currently have their families in England.

The beaurocrats have 2 years to work out the details of the rules for the new scottish passport office, but it's not unreasonable to think that Scotland will include all the Jamaicans, Barbadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Australians, Kiwis, Isrealis, etcwho have their families there and are on the electoral roll. Undoubtedly in the same spirit of fairness, this will be extended to cover English who currently have their families in Scotland and are on the elctoral roll there.

[jpinx]

Scots abroad will get their pensions from the new Scottish exchequer.

What is the basis for this statement? What will happen for dual Scottish/rUK nationals? Will they get the full pension from each government?

I wish !!

[jpinx]

The Scottish vote is for true independence. Scotland has been "devolved" from London's government for some time already. That period has been when Scotland was finding its feet and now they have decided they want to be totally independent.

No they haven't! The referendum isn't expected until late 2014.

They voted in a Scottish government who have extensively promoted a referendum, so they can be seen to have chosen to be allowed to make the choice.

There -- is that a better form of words for you ?

[nontabury]

Scottish voters will be looking for positive change for them, most will care little for issues surrounding currency or passports.

Even the issue of EU membership will matter little to most people.

Hatred of the English is not the issue....but a better future and more control over our own affairs.

Amazing,you say the Scottish voters will care little about their currency,and in doing so,also about their financial future."OH"my Buddha.

Again,an SNP supporter not prepared to face reality.

The EU does not have to negotiate with an application from Scotland,certainly not on the demands of the Scott's.The EU if they want, can simple inform the Scott's on what terms THEY,the EU,are prepared to accept for their entry,This would leave Scotland having to agree to those EU terms,however unfavorable they may be to the Scottish people.So much for control over your own affairs.

The same applies to the remaining parts of the UK,why should the UK agree to anything that a Scottish government demands, unless they thought it would be an acceptable price to be simple rid.

You're political naivety is clear from this post.

First Scotland leaves the EU....who will be next...?

It's not my political naively that is in question,it's the SNP and their supporters who do not understand the reality of 2012.

A toss up,maybe Scotland first,or it could be the rest / the whole of the UK.As you know the UKIP may only be a protest vote at the moment( maybe the same can be said of the SNP )

or possible they can carry their supporters into the general election,the same as the SNP.

Only time will tell.

To JPINX,

My apologies,I made a spelling mistake,I did not miss -spell Scots deliberately and I certainly did not want to be provocative,so you can now come down from your high horse.

[jpinx]

It's not my political naively that is in question,it's the SNP and their supporters who do not understand the reality of 2012.

A toss up,maybe Scotland first,or it could be the rest / the whole of the UK.As you know the UKIP may only be a protest vote at the moment( maybe the same can be said of the SNP )

or possible they can carry their supporters into the general election,the same as the SNP.

Only time will tell.

To JPINX,

My apologies,I made a spelling mistake,I did not miss -spell Scots deliberately and I certainly did not want to be provocative,so you can now come down from your high horse.

Damned horse........

[jpinx]

It's not my political naively that is in question,it's the SNP and their supporters who do not understand the reality of 2012.

A toss up,maybe Scotland first,or it could be the rest / the whole of the UK.As you know the UKIP may only be a protest vote at the moment( maybe the same can be said of the SNP )

or possible they can carry their supporters into the general election,the same as the SNP.

Only time will tell.

If your UKIP can gain traction and support from the wider population in the same way as the SNP did in Scotland - I'm right with you. The right to self-determination is what democracy is all about !

[bigbamboo]

The rules for obtaining a UK passport are laid out by the UKBA and apply to residents/citizens/nationalities of EVERY country in the world. A newly independent Scotland will have it's own Scottish passport issuing office and will set their own rules, just like any other country in the world. Anyone who meets the criteria can apply for a Scottish passport.

Everyone one the electoral roll for the independence vote will obviously be eligible for a Scottish passport regardless of whether they voted yes or no. For the immediate processing of Scots who are abroad at the time of the vote, the beaurocrats need to sort out a period of transition from UK to Scottish passport, temporary passport issuing, sharing of Embassy services abroad, and many other purely administrative tasks. As I have said previously, they is what beaurocrats are for.

I suggest one looks at the criteria for any European country and substitute the world "Scotland" as appropriate and you will have a better understanding of how passport issuance and therefore nationality, citizenship, etc. all work. Think of USA where a person from Thailand can gain full citizenship and passport after lengthy processing, or Germany where one has to have had German parentage going back for some generations.

I guess the question is do the Scots want to be truly independent or just hang on to the UK's apron strings?

The Scottish vote is for true independence. Scotland has been "devolved" from London's government for some time already. That period has been when Scotland was finding its feet and now they have decided they want to be totally independent.

So no UK passports required then. They will still have EU rights which should be sufficient.

[Richard W]

The rules for eligibility for a rUK passport are most likely to be the same as the current UKBA rules, with the exception that "birthright" will be reduced to England, Wales and N.Ireland. That includes all the Jamaicans, Barbadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Australians, Kiwis, Isrealis, etc who have there families there - and undoubtedly in the same spirit of fairness that UK uses, this will be extended to cover Scots who currently have their families in England.

I think along these lines, except I expect qualifying locations (as at present, less Scotland) to also apply to grandparents for British citizens. Also, I would not expect anyone who is not a British citizen to become an rUK citizen. Possibly long residence in the qualifying locations may also allow registration as an rUK citizen, in lieu of naturalisation which could have happened if the split had occurred earlier. This is based on recent divvying ups of citizens at independence.

The beaurocrats have 2 years to work out the details of the rules for the new scottish passport office, but it's not unreasonable to think that Scotland will include all the Jamaicans, Barbadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Australians, Kiwis, Isrealis, etcwho have their families there and are on the electoral roll. Undoubtedly in the same spirit of fairness, this will be extended to cover English who currently have their families in Scotland and are on the elctoral roll there.

I would expect those meeting the current rules with Scotland as the sole qualifying location will be included. I would expect grandparents born in Scotland also to qualify British citizens for Scottish citizenship. I am surprised at your mention of electoral rolls. Note that Israelis will not appear on electoral rolls any more than Thais; Italians do appear on electoral rolls for elections to the Scottish parliament, but not to the Westminster parliament.

If electoral rolls are mentioned, I would expect all Britons on them to be eligible. Of course, that could lead to any Englishmen working for Raytheon in Glenrothes being sacked for being dual nationals! This would result from the US regulations on arms trafficking (ITAR).

[jpinx]

The rules for eligibility for a rUK passport are most likely to be the same as the current UKBA rules, with the exception that "birthright" will be reduced to England, Wales and N.Ireland. That includes all the Jamaicans, Barbadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Australians, Kiwis, Isrealis, etc who have there families there - and undoubtedly in the same spirit of fairness that UK uses, this will be extended to cover Scots who currently have their families in England.

I think along these lines, except I expect qualifying locations (as at present, less Scotland) to also apply to grandparents for British citizens. Also, I would not expect anyone who is not a British citizen to become an rUK citizen. Possibly long residence in the qualifying locations may also allow registration as an rUK citizen, in lieu of naturalisation which could have happened if the split had occurred earlier. This is based on recent divvying ups of citizens at independence.

The beaurocrats have 2 years to work out the details of the rules for the new scottish passport office, but it's not unreasonable to think that Scotland will include all the Jamaicans, Barbadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Australians, Kiwis, Isrealis, etcwho have their families there and are on the electoral roll. Undoubtedly in the same spirit of fairness, this will be extended to cover English who currently have their families in Scotland and are on the elctoral roll there.

I would expect those meeting the current rules with Scotland as the sole qualifying location will be included. I would expect grandparents born in Scotland also to qualify British citizens for Scottish citizenship. I am surprised at your mention of electoral rolls. Note that Israelis will not appear on electoral rolls any more than Thais; Italians do appear on electoral rolls for elections to the Scottish parliament, but not to the Westminster parliament.

If electoral rolls are mentioned, I would expect all Britons on them to be eligible. Of course, that could lead to any Englishmen working for Raytheon in Glenrothes being sacked for being dual nationals! This would result from the US regulations on arms trafficking (ITAR).

I think you will find Thais, Italians and others on the electoral roll for Westminster.

Britons? What are they?

[bigbamboo]

It is fascinating how all this devolution legislation will pan out. I suppose one benefit for the UK will be the vast number of new jobs freed up in the civil service as Scots would no longer be eligible to work in UK governmental positions, the police, customs, armed forces etc.

Of course this wouldn't apply to football where half the PL managers would continue to be Scots!

[Richard W]

I think you will find Thais, Italians and others on the electoral roll for Westminster.

Not in virtue of those nationalities - see http://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/elections/register/ .

[jpinx]

I think you will find Thais, Italians and others on the electoral roll for Westminster.

Not in virtue of those nationalities - see http://www.parliamen...tions/register/ .

Are you not familiar with dual-nationality ?

[jpinx]

It is fascinating how all this devolution legislation will pan out. I suppose one benefit for the UK will be the vast number of new jobs freed up in the civil service as Scots would no longer be eligible to work in UK governmental positions, the police, customs, armed forces etc.

Of course this wouldn't apply to football where half the PL managers would continue to be Scots!

Indeed -- but it cuts both ways.

I'm not sure about the nationality requirements to work in a "governement post" in UK at present. Aren't teachers government employees and they are not all British...

[Richard W]

It is fascinating how all this devolution legislation will pan out. I suppose one benefit for the UK will be the vast number of new jobs freed up in the civil service as Scots would no longer be eligible to work in UK governmental positions, the police, customs, armed forces etc.

A good many of these posts are open to EU nationals or commonwealth citizens. I've seen jibes that the Black Watch are mostly Fijian!

[jpinx]

It is fascinating how all this devolution legislation will pan out. I suppose one benefit for the UK will be the vast number of new jobs freed up in the civil service as Scots would no longer be eligible to work in UK governmental positions, the police, customs, armed forces etc.

A good many of these posts are open to EU nationals or commonwealth citizens. I've seen jibes that the Black Watch are mostly Fijian!

And don't forget the Ghurkas

[bigbamboo]

It is fascinating how all this devolution legislation will pan out. I suppose one benefit for the UK will be the vast number of new jobs freed up in the civil service as Scots would no longer be eligible to work in UK governmental positions, the police, customs, armed forces etc.

A good many of these posts are open to EU nationals or commonwealth citizens. I've seen jibes that the Black Watch are mostly Fijian!

And don't forget the Ghurkas

Those guys are hard! I guess we could have the Gorbals regiment or the Govanators.

[Richard W]

I think you will find Thais, Italians and others on the electoral roll for Westminster.

Not in virtue of those nationalities - see http://www.parliamen...tions/register/ .

Are you not familiar with dual-nationality ?

Whence the 'not in virtue of'.

[Richard W]

Aren't teachers government employees and they are not all British...

Unlike Thailand, teachers in the UK aren't employed by the central government.

[jpinx]

I think you will find Thais, Italians and others on the electoral roll for Westminster.

Not in virtue of those nationalities - see http://www.parliamen...tions/register/ .

Are you not familiar with dual-nationality ?

Whence the 'not in virtue of'.

Beaurocratic-speak for what in plain English ?

[Richard W]

I suppose one benefit for the UK will be the vast number of new jobs freed up in the civil service as Scots would no longer be eligible to work in UK governmental positions, the police, customs, armed forces etc.

One of the pains of a break-up will be reviewing security clearances.

[Tanlic]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Tanlic

[phuketjock]

I think you will find Thais, Italians and others on the electoral roll for Westminster.

Not in virtue of those nationalities - see http://www.parliamen...tions/register/ .

From your own source:--

Who can register?

You can register to vote if you are:

• 16 years old or over (but cannot vote until you are 18 years old)
  
• a British citizen
  
• an Irish, Commonwealth or European Union citizen who is resident in the UK
  

I know many Thais and I am sure there are many Italians who are British citizens!!!!

Edited December 23, 2012 by phuketjock

[phuketjock]

Aren't teachers government employees and they are not all British...

Unlike Thailand, teachers in the UK aren't employed by the central government.

So who are they employed by?????

[phuketjock]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

You are of course entitled to your opinion as anglophile as it is.

The relevance of the USA is lost on me??? it is not a place I would live or

bring my kids up in, unless I had a sizeable arsenal or three.

Many of the countries that have separated from Russia are doing far better

than they ever did under " mother " Russia.

You may have great friends in England but be careful I have found many so

called " friends " from there to be fairweather friends rather than real friends.

I fear you may have been blinded by your " great " friends from the south.

[nontabury]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

You seem to be one of those Scots, who are living in the present times,and who at the moment are in the majority, but will you and they be shouted down by the narrow minded nationalist.?Expect the SNP and their supporters to imply at some stage that you are not a true Scot.Best of luck.

[phuketjock]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

You seem to be one of those Scots, who are living in the present times,and who at the moment are in the majority, but will you and they be shouted down by the narrow minded nationalist.?Expect the SNP and their supporters to imply at some stage that you are not a true Scot.Best of luck.

Unfortunately there have been a few turncoats recorded in Scotlands history

he is possibly a Campbell??