Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum

[folium]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

You seem to be one of those Scots, who are living in the present times,and who at the moment are in the majority, but will you and they be shouted down by the narrow minded nationalist.?Expect the SNP and their supporters to imply at some stage that you are not a true Scot.Best of luck.

Unfortunately there have been a few turncoats recorded in Scotlands history

he is possibly a Campbell??

I'd be very careful accusing the Campbell's of being "turncoats"...they can do unpleasant things to their foes....!

Also you are wrong as the Campbell-MacGregor feud stretched back to the 16th century and was more about local power and land issues and little to do with Westminster. Either side was capable of taking any advantage to gain local supremacy.

To also shine a little light on Culloden, the Jacobite army was highland and lowland, French, Irish & even English ( the Manchester Regiment). The Government forces were similarly diverse with English, Irish and 25% Scots ( again both Highland & Lowland).

So ideas that the Jaobite uprisings were early independence struggles between England & Scotland are both simplistic and inaccurate, despite all the subsequent mythology.

[phuketjock]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

You seem to be one of those Scots, who are living in the present times,and who at the moment are in the majority, but will you and they be shouted down by the narrow minded nationalist.?Expect the SNP and their supporters to imply at some stage that you are not a true Scot.Best of luck.

Unfortunately there have been a few turncoats recorded in Scotlands history

he is possibly a Campbell??

I'd be very careful accusing the Campbell's of being "turncoats"...they can do unpleasant things to their foes....!

Also you are wrong as the Campbell-MacGregor feud stretched back to the 16th century and was more about local power and land issues and little to do with Westminster. Either side was capable of taking any advantage to gain local supremacy.

To also shine a little light on Culloden, the Jacobite army was highland and lowland, French, Irish & even English ( the Manchester Regiment). The Government forces were similarly diverse with English, Irish and 25% Scots ( again both Highland & Lowland).

So ideas that the Jaobite uprisings were early independence struggles between England & Scotland are both simplistic and inaccurate, despite all the subsequent mythology.

Folly What am I wrong about??

I said " he is possibly A Campbell "

And I get yet another boring history lesson Yawn, Yawn

[folium]

I'd be very careful accusing the Campbell's of being "turncoats"...they can do unpleasant things to their foes....!

Also you are wrong as the Campbell-MacGregor feud stretched back to the 16th century and was more about local power and land issues and little to do with Westminster. Either side was capable of taking any advantage to gain local supremacy.

To also shine a little light on Culloden, the Jacobite army was highland and lowland, French, Irish & even English ( the Manchester Regiment). The Government forces were similarly diverse with English, Irish and 25% Scots ( again both Highland & Lowland).

So ideas that the Jaobite uprisings were early independence struggles between England & Scotland are both simplistic and inaccurate, despite all the subsequent mythology.

Folly What am I wrong about??

I said " he is possibly A Campbell "

And I get yet another boring history lesson Yawn, Yawn

Slighting the Campbells (either directly or not) is never a good idea. Watch your back next time you are in Glencoe, or do you need another Scottish history lesson?!

[StreetCowboy]

It's not my political naively that is in question,it's the SNP and their supporters who do not understand the reality of 2012.

A toss up,maybe Scotland first,or it could be the rest / the whole of the UK.As you know the UKIP may only be a protest vote at the moment( maybe the same can be said of the SNP )

or possible they can carry their supporters into the general election,the same as the SNP.

Only time will tell.

To JPINX,

My apologies,I made a spelling mistake,I did not miss -spell Scots deliberately and I certainly did not want to be provocative,so you can now come down from your high horse.

Damned horse........

Just let it lie.

[StreetCowboy]

Aren't teachers government employees and they are not all British...

Unlike Thailand, teachers in the UK aren't employed by the central government.

So who are they employed by?????

The local government, or the school itself, in the case of independent schools. Robb may be able to confirm this.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

The rules for obtaining a UK passport are laid out by the UKBA and apply to residents/citizens/nationalities of EVERY country in the world. A newly independent Scotland will have it's own Scottish passport issuing office and will set their own rules, just like any other country in the world. Anyone who meets the criteria can apply for a Scottish passport.

Everyone one the electoral roll for the independence vote will obviously be eligible for a Scottish passport regardless of whether they voted yes or no. For the immediate processing of Scots who are abroad at the time of the vote, the beaurocrats need to sort out a period of transition from UK to Scottish passport, temporary passport issuing, sharing of Embassy services abroad, and many other purely administrative tasks. As I have said previously, they is what beaurocrats are for.

I suggest one looks at the criteria for any European country and substitute the world "Scotland" as appropriate and you will have a better understanding of how passport issuance and therefore nationality, citizenship, etc. all work. Think of USA where a person from Thailand can gain full citizenship and passport after lengthy processing, or Germany where one has to have had German parentage going back for some generations.

I guess the question is do the Scots want to be truly independent or just hang on to the UK's apron strings?

The Scottish vote is for true independence. Scotland has been "devolved" from London's government for some time already. That period has been when Scotland was finding its feet and now they have decided they want to be totally independent.

So no UK passports required then. They will still have EU rights which should be sufficient.

How do their EU rights accrue?

SC

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose one benefit for the UK will be the vast number of new jobs freed up in the civil service as Scots would no longer be eligible to work in UK governmental positions, the police, customs, armed forces etc.

One of the pains of a break-up will be reviewing security clearances.

I don't see why Scotland would not continue to be one of the key recruiting grounds for the British armed forces, along with Fiji and many other countries.

SC

[phuketjock]

Aren't teachers government employees and they are not all British...

Unlike Thailand, teachers in the UK aren't employed by the central government.

So who are they employed by?????

The local government, or the school itself, in the case of independent schools. Robb may be able to confirm this.

SC

Is that not the same as Thailand??

[folium]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

You are of course entitled to your opinion as anglophile as it is.

The relevance of the USA is lost on me??? it is not a place I would live or

bring my kids up in, unless I had a sizeable arsenal or three.

Many of the countries that have separated from Russia are doing far better

than they ever did under " mother " Russia.

You may have great friends in England but be careful I have found many so

called " friends " from there to be fairweather friends rather than real friends.

I fear you may have been blinded by your " great " friends from the south.

Whoa, touch of the old bitter and twisted here...

Heaven forbid a Scot who does not share your point of view.

The relevance of the USA highlights your obvious need for a few history lessons.

Ex Soviet republics ( with the obvious and understandable exception of the Baltic Republics) hardly stand out as beacons of enlightenment, progress and development.

But your comments about English friends are very revealing.....

[folium]

Aren't teachers government employees and they are not all British...

Unlike Thailand, teachers in the UK aren't employed by the central government.

So who are they employed by?????

The local government, or the school itself, in the case of independent schools. Robb may be able to confirm this.

SC

In Scotland and Wales all state schools are run by their respective local authorities. In England the same is true but some 2000 state schools are now academies which are directly funded by central government but recruit their own teaching staff like independent schools.

[7by7]

Edited to add...

Links to articles about whatever is happening between Scotland and EU. I haven't read them myself, but I'm sure you'll précis them for me

http://www.scotland....404/latest-news

http://www.heraldsco...-to-eu.19674977

http://www.bnegroup....independence-w/

http://www.guardian....s-eu-membership

http://www.heraldsco...o-hole.19688997

I hope you have now; if you have you will see that none of them say that negotiations are already taking place between the SNP and the EU over an independent Scotland's membership.

Indeed, the final one says

A SCOTTISH Government request for early talks with the European Commission over Scotland and the EU was rebuffed last night, as commission sources said the matter was "on hold" until the New Year.

Bulgaria may not yet be using the Euro; but it is a condition of membership for new members and they will have to once the transitional period is over.

It seems we are broadly in agreement over the nationality issue.

I wouldn't say that I am vehemently against Scottish independence; I just feel it will be a big mistake and that both Scotland and the remainder of the UK will be weaker for it. I also feel that it is the Scots who have the most to lose.

I am vehemently against people who post their opinion as fact and refuse to back that opinion up with external sources and instead ridicule those who question them. Not including your good self in that group, of course.

[Scott]

This topic is going off-topic. One post has been deleted. If you have nothing to discuss about the OP, then feel free not to post.

[7by7]

I did not ask for a reference to your previous posts: I asked for an apology for an offensive post, which you have clearly declined to give. So be it.

I am not going to apologise for expressing an opinion; an opinion backed up by the facts; as I have shown the Scottish Parliament has very little power which county councils did not already have.

It seems that the Scottish people have little faith in their Parliament or the SNP.

As previously stated, they are happy to register protest votes in the local elections to this Parliament; but when it comes to voting in a General Election to the Parliament with the real power, Westminster, the SNP share of the vote, poor to begin with, has been steadily declining!

Edited December 23, 2012 by 7by7

[bigbamboo]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

You seem to be one of those Scots, who are living in the present times,and who at the moment are in the majority, but will you and they be shouted down by the narrow minded nationalist.?Expect the SNP and their supporters to imply at some stage that you are not a true Scot.Best of luck.

Or perhaps he's wants to remain part of one of the only three major world economies to retain a Triple A credit rating?

[RubbaJohnny]

Recent news that leaving the Uk would also mean being ejected from the EU may prove the fulcrum.

Rather than detracting from potential votes theSNP may find this is the clincher.

If English politicos had any sense they would pre-empt and have a referendum allow England to secede from UK and leave the Celts to their Euro dream if they so wish.

Recent CFR and CIA push indicates the puppeteer wants UK in the tent pissing out rather than outside pissing to paraphrase erstwhile President Johnson,the majr beneficiary of JFK demise and a foul mothed Texan.

[jpinx]

I'm a Scot who would hate for us to break away from the rest of the country as all I can see it acheiving is weakening us, the Uk, further as a nation.

The UNITED States of America is what makes it what it is today. Thousands and thousands died in a civil war to make that was and become the most powerful nation in the world.

Look at Russia and you see what happens when a country becomes divided.

The diehards say our history gives us every right to hate the English and many claim they do. Usually they are drunk as skunks and at some football match because in reality most of us have great friends south of the borders and history is nothing more than something written in some book we couldn't give a rats a$$ about,

I'm sure Rob Roy McSpurnstrap would love to be prime minister of Scotland and go down in history as would his band of tartan clad followers but I wouuld ask is it for Scotland or their own selfish means.

The cost of this referendum which will do know more than confirm that we Brits north of the border want to remain part of a great nation but it keeps those who push for it in a job. Sure it gives the Scottish people a chance to voice their opinion but so does a inexpensive poll.

Any poll ever taken has come out well in favour of the UK remaining the UK. and the money wasted on this could be better spent finding a cure for Alzheimers which those who allowed this to get so far are clearly suffering from.

You are of course entitled to your opinion as anglophile as it is.

The relevance of the USA is lost on me??? it is not a place I would live or

bring my kids up in, unless I had a sizeable arsenal or three.

Many of the countries that have separated from Russia are doing far better

than they ever did under " mother " Russia.

You may have great friends in England but be careful I have found many so

called " friends " from there to be fairweather friends rather than real friends.

I fear you may have been blinded by your " great " friends from the south.

Whoa, touch of the old bitter and twisted here...

Heaven forbid a Scot who does not share your point of view.

The relevance of the USA highlights your obvious need for a few history lessons.

Ex Soviet republics ( with the obvious and understandable exception of the Baltic Republics) hardly stand out as beacons of enlightenment, progress and development.

But your comments about English friends are very revealing.....

USA and the old USSR have nothing in common with the UK situation. Red herrings again and I agree with scott - stay on topic -- " Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum"

The London government has agreed terms for the referendum, so agreements *are* possible across the border - appearances from this thread sometimes to the contrary

London government had the chance then to run a referendum for the whole of UK regarding the break-up of the UK, but they seemed to think that was not a good idea - for whatever reason - or maybe they just didn't think of it ?

[jpinx]

Recent news that leaving the Uk would also mean being ejected from the EU may prove the fulcrum.

Rather than detracting from potential votes theSNP may find this is the clincher.

If English politicos had any sense they would pre-empt and have a referendum allow England to secede from UK and leave the Celts to their Euro dream if they so wish.

Recent CFR and CIA push indicates the puppeteer wants UK in the tent pissing out rather than outside pissing to paraphrase erstwhile President Johnson,the majr beneficiary of JFK demise and a foul mothed Texan.

I'd agree - now is a good time for the independence movements in England and Wales to get traction, using Scotland as their example and possible fulcrum.

The british empire is gone and looks like the *United* Kingdon is not as united as it once was - or was it ever?

[folium]

I suppose one benefit for the UK will be the vast number of new jobs freed up in the civil service as Scots would no longer be eligible to work in UK governmental positions, the police, customs, armed forces etc.

One of the pains of a break-up will be reviewing security clearances.

I don't see why Scotland would not continue to be one of the key recruiting grounds for the British armed forces, along with Fiji and many other countries.

SC

Strange as it may seem recruiting in Scotland has been a very real issue over the past decade. The Royal Regiment of Scotland has had to turn to large numbers of Commonwealth recruits as a result. The Scots Guards will remain part of the British Army irrespective of what may or more likely no happen in 2014, much as the Irish Guards did post partition.

[7by7]

There have been some posts on British nationality, from both sides of this debate, which show that the author has little or no knowledge or understanding of British nationality law and who is or is not born British or entitled to be naturlaised as such.

I do not wish to post all the details here, so direct people to British Citizenship Basics.

I have already posted my view on the three possible scenarios post independence, but will repeat my view that the most likely outcome will be that those living in Scotland at the date of independence will be dual Scots/British whilst those born after independence will be Scots only; unless they also qualify for British nationality by some other means.

Scots living abroad? No idea!

[jpinx]

I hope you have now; if you have you will see that none of them say that negotiations are already taking place between the SNP and the EU over an independent Scotland's membership.

Indeed, the final one says

A SCOTTISH Government request for early talks with the European Commission over Scotland and the EU was rebuffed last night, as commission sources said the matter was "on hold" until the New Year.

Bulgaria may not yet be using the Euro; but it is a condition of membership for new members and they will have to once the transitional period is over.

It seems we are broadly in agreement over the nationality issue.

I wouldn't say that I am vehemently against Scottish independence; I just feel it will be a big mistake and that both Scotland and the remainder of the UK will be weaker for it. I also feel that it is the Scots who have the most to lose.

I am vehemently against people who post their opinion as fact and refuse to back that opinion up with external sources and instead ridicule those who question them. Not including your good self in that group, of course.

Yes - I did say somewhere that it is only talks about talking - nothing can be started without a democratic mandate. Both Scotland and EU are stating their positions in public -- unfortunately it is the usual combative style of western politics, taking up opposing views when they know full well that they will be forced to come together when the population say so. What happened to government/politics by consensus?

The Bulgarian (and others) use of the transitional period shows one option for Scotland.

Nationality issues are complicated but clear. I know you have a good understanding of how that works - you can do the job for the new Scottish Passport Agency maybe ? (consultancy only of course - non-scots are not allowed to work for the Scottish government! ) j/k

As for the "big mistake" - obviously everyone has their own opinion, but I'd only point to the success stories to show how countries can re-invent themselves.

You're possibly right to get grumpy when people make statement without verifyable source, but for me - I treat anything unverifyable as opinion only. This is only a chatterbox forum so I don't get too excited when people don't agree with me.

[bigbamboo]

There have been some posts on British nationality, from both sides of this debate, which show that the author has little or no knowledge or understanding of British nationality law and who is or is not born British or entitled to be naturlaised as such.

I do not wish to post all the details here, so direct people to British Citizenship Basics.

I have already posted my view on the three possible scenarios post independence, but will repeat my view that the most likely outcome will be that those living in Scotland at the date of independence will be dual Scots/British whilst those born after independence will be Scots only; unless they also qualify for British nationality by some other means.

Scots living abroad? No idea!

Those are the rules now but they can be changed as a condition of independence otherwise every Scot on the planet will be a UK citizen too. Do you think every ex Soviet republic national has the right to a Russian passport?

As I have mentioned before this will be a complicated divorce.

[7by7]

Why should an independent Scotland have any say in British nationality law?

If Scotland leaves the Union it loses all say over Union matters.

[7by7]

The Bulgarian (and others) use of the transitional period shows one option for Scotland.

An option that will not be Scotland's to choose; it will be up to the EU; and will only be temporary.

If an independent Scotland wants to be a member of the EU it will, sooner rather than later, have to accept the Euro.

You're possibly right to get grumpy when people make statement without verifiable source, but for me - I treat anything unverifyable as opinion only. This is only a chatterbox forum so I don't get too excited when people don't agree with me

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if they disagree with mine!

But I, and others, have been called a bigot and a Little Englander and similar simply because I have questioned the unverified opinion of certain posters.

Though I shouldn't really rise to the baiting, as their behaviour proves that their arguments are built on sand.

Edited December 23, 2012 by 7by7

[jpinx]

There have been some posts on British nationality, from both sides of this debate, which show that the author has little or no knowledge or understanding of British nationality law and who is or is not born British or entitled to be naturlaised as such.

I do not wish to post all the details here, so direct people to British Citizenship Basics.

I have already posted my view on the three possible scenarios post independence, but will repeat my view that the most likely outcome will be that those living in Scotland at the date of independence will be dual Scots/British whilst those born after independence will be Scots only; unless they also qualify for British nationality by some other means.

Scots living abroad? No idea!

Agreed - the nationality/passport issue has been talked to death but people don't like to read through this thread to see what's been said.

Scots abroad will have to get themselves sorted out on a case-by case basis. The Scottish passport office will need to be well over-staffed in the early days, or maybe they can contract the job out -- in the same way as some countries contract out their currency printing.

Too many variables to generalise on scots abroad, but within EU they can be issued temporary passports to give more time for resolving their situation. A Scot in Thailand will need to be ready to actually *do* something and not winge in here. 7by7 can expect a lot of questions in that forum about visas for "other countries" or similar

[bigbamboo]

Recent news that leaving the Uk would also mean being ejected from the EU may prove the fulcrum.

Rather than detracting from potential votes theSNP may find this is the clincher.

If English politicos had any sense they would pre-empt and have a referendum allow England to secede from UK and leave the Celts to their Euro dream if they so wish.

Recent CFR and CIA push indicates the puppeteer wants UK in the tent pissing out rather than outside pissing to paraphrase erstwhile President Johnson,the majr beneficiary of JFK demise and a foul mothed Texan.

I'd agree - now is a good time for the independence movements in England and Wales to get traction, using Scotland as their example and possible fulcrum.

The british empire is gone and looks like the *United* Kingdon is not as united as it once was - or was it ever?

I believe if Scotland decides to go solo then it's only fair that the people of other three home nations are given the same option.

Once the union is broken then we may as well all become separate nations within the EU.

Edited December 23, 2012 by bigbamboo

[jpinx]

There have been some posts on British nationality, from both sides of this debate, which show that the author has little or no knowledge or understanding of British nationality law and who is or is not born British or entitled to be naturlaised as such.

I do not wish to post all the details here, so direct people to British Citizenship Basics.

I have already posted my view on the three possible scenarios post independence, but will repeat my view that the most likely outcome will be that those living in Scotland at the date of independence will be dual Scots/British whilst those born after independence will be Scots only; unless they also qualify for British nationality by some other means.

Scots living abroad? No idea!

Those are the rules now but they can be changed as a condition of independence otherwise every Scot on the planet will be a UK citizen too. Do you think every ex Soviet republic national has the right to a Russian passport?

As I have mentioned before this will be a complicated divorce.

Indeed it will be - but not impossible. Question is -- who gets the house ?

[jpinx]

The Bulgarian (and others) use of the transitional period shows one option for Scotland.

An option that will not be Scotland's to choose; it will be up to the EU; and will only be temporary.

If an independent Scotland wants to be a member of the EU it will, sooner rather than later, have to accept the Euro.

True, but it's been many years that Bulgaria has not taken on the euro. Plenty of time for many other things to change about Scotland's position as an independent nation.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if they disagree with mine!

But I, and others, have been called a bigot and a Little Englander and similar simply because I have questioned the unverified opinion of certain posters.

Though I shouldn't really rise to the baiting, as their behaviour proves that their arguments are built on sand.

I get called much worse because I am almost a professional Devil's Advocate and my nationality has been the butt of jokes both funny and hurtful for as long as I can remember

For me - the over-reaching thing that has happened is actually the topic of this thread -- Westminster and Holyrood *AGREED* to this referendum. No amount of whining now by the English/Welsh/N.Irish contingent can take away from the fact that their own MP's in Westminster have subscribed to the agreement that Scotland should have a referendum for it's independence. As I said somewhere else - if the wesminster politicans had any misgivings about the break-up of the U.K., *that* was the time to voice them.

Edited December 23, 2012 by jpinx

[7by7]

A canny move by Cameron, I submit.

He knows that a Yes vote is extremely unlikely, even theblether accepts that, and that after the result this issue will be dead for at least a generation; probably more.

[phuketjock]

A canny move by Cameron, I submit.

He knows that a Yes vote is extremely unlikely, even theblether accepts that, and that after the result this issue will be dead for at least a generation; probably more.

I wouldn't count on that 7 Salmond was clever to set the date 2 years away,

that 2 years will be very telling, and could very well turn the tables!!!

[jpinx]

A canny move by Cameron, I submit.

He knows that a Yes vote is extremely unlikely, even theblether accepts that, and that after the result this issue will be dead for at least a generation; probably more.

AH -- HA!!! You've seen through their cunning plot. But Cameron didn't work alone -- now you can fathom the reasoning behind people in power in Scotland wanting a vote, but wanting it rejected