Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum

[folium]

Talking of facts getting in the way of good stories, see below for interest rate chronology:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/boeapps/iadb/Repo.asp

Rates hit an all time high in Nov 1979 at 17.0%, with a second peak at 14.875% in Oct 1989.

Of equal significance is an overview of inflation rates in the UK:

http://safalra.com/other/historical-uk-inflation-price-conversion/

The correlation between the two data sets is quite simple. The destructive levels of inflation seen in the 1970's in the UK and throughout the western economies, was to be combated via monetarist policy, namely the weapon of interest rates.

The fiasco of ERM, Black Wednesday, the brief spike to 15% interest rates etc played out in Sept 1992 and is thus not relevant to Blather's original claims.

Returning to which the idea that Scotland is exceptional in terms of being hit by issues emanating from London and the SE. This is still not convincing and a look at the nominal house price graph in the below link is informative:

http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/property/uk-house-prices-will-plummet-look-at-this-scary-chart-14664

As can be seen while London and the average UK house prices materially crashed in 1989, Scotland barely saw a correction in house prices before 2008. The brutal impact of escalating interest rate repayments can partially be blamed on central government and banks but at the end of the day getting into an over-leveraged, over-geared financial position is an individual one often in the case of property on the premise that house prices are a one way street. On average in Scotland while nominal house prices continued to climb post 1989, real prices only returned to an upward trajectory once inflation was brought under control by the interest rate policy implemented by the dreaded government in London.

Over stretched mortgage slaves in the SE were thus harder hit in 1989. Perhaps Surrey should be seeking independence.

I return to my earlier premise that Scotland is little different in its economic situation, priorities (still unsure what Blather meant here though) and social structure from other geographically/economically peripheral regions of the UK such as the NE or S.Wales.

Also looking at Scotland as a whole is ludicrously simplistic as the priorities, economy and social set up of Parkhead in E.Glasgow are a world apart from those of Bieldside/Cults outside Aberdeen or North Charlotte St in Edinburgh.

Indeed the canard of Scotland as the downtrodden, abused and overlooked part of the UK just does not hold water. See below:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/scotland-is-among-richest-areas-in-the-uk.1325732641

But at the end of the day the UK is foremost a democracy so if Scotland choose independence, so be it.

[folium]

Here's a helpful link to an A level Economics revision guide which spells out the cause and effects of the early 1990's recession.

http://www.economicshelp.org/dictionary/t/thatcher-economic-policies.html

[theblether]

Very interesting Folium.......I will point out though that I did not bring up the ERM issue, it was rsg.

So you are correct that it was nothing to do with my original argument.

Thanks for confirming that I was right about the interest rate though.

Ps.....your link to the Herald article shows one of the worst types of economic voodooism. Idiotic economists making up idiotic theoretical comparisons

Edited October 29, 2012 by theblether

[folium]

Very interesting Folium.......I will point out though that I did not bring up the ERM issue, it was rsg.

So you are correct that it was nothing to do with my original argument.

Thanks for confirming that I was right about the interest rate though.

Ps.....your link to the Herald article shows one of the worst types of economic voodooism. Idiotic economists making up idiotic theoretical comparisons

And I am still keen to hear your argument as to why and how Scotland has a "different set of priorities from England, our social structure is different and our economy is different" compared to any other geographically peripheral region of the UK.......

Edited October 29, 2012 by folium

[theblether]

Cos it's not all about the money.......it's all about looking after the poor and vulnerable, and giving opportunities to people......

Hence free care for the elderly, no prescription charges, and free University education among many others.

The idea of English kids being charged fees to enter Universities is mental........a 100 years of progressive politics washed down the pan.

Access to Uni shouldn't be dependent on Mummy and Daddy being able to pay the fees, it should be on ability. The idea of the elderly infirm losing all their savings and home to pay for geriatric care is cruel.

The idea of the sick being charged money for medicine in our country is repulsive.

So without getting into a long debate about the different social priorities, just take those three examples of how we put people and fairness first and ask yourself, who's got it right?

[Rancid]

2. Cameron needs to maintain the Union, the implications to the standing of the UK in World terms is far beyond what many people here now realize. For example, there is a campaign running just now to have the UK removed as a permanent member of the UN Security council, it is unlikely that the seat would be retained after Independence for Scotland. The UN Security Council seat has a value far beyond what most people here realize. That is only one of many issues that will come under scrutiny by the international community, and losing Scotland could relegate the UK into the second tier of countries within a generation. May I point out to our Commonwealth cousins, the UN Security Council seat is de facto their seat too, the UK uses the veto to represent the best interests of the UK and the Commonwealth. If we didn't have it, then we would have to rely even more on the ever weakening US for protection. Australians in particular should be switched on to the currents developments in regards to defence in their country. Like it or lump it, the Oz government knows the country is highly vulnerable to invasion due to the vast size of the place, so they need to put up more deterrent signals to possible Chinese expansionism, hence the token presence of US marines in Darwin.

I am Australian, however both my parents families came from Scotland so I have genetic sympathy for the Scottish position, I do wonder though that independence wouldn't have been offerred unless they knew it wasn't going to happen.

The UK dumped Australian trade and hurt us economically (temporarily) when it joined the Common Market, it is perceived as being interested in Europe, not Australia. We also leaned in WW2 when the Japanese were knocking and couldn't get our troops back for homeland defence how things stood, also that The UK was no longer a world power that could project military might to Asia. We have moved towards the US ever since.

It will be interesting to watch what happens, if independence then I suspect there will continue a very close relationship in many aspects.

[transam]

Cos it's not all about the money.......it's all about looking after the poor and vulnerable, and giving opportunities to people......

Hence free care for the elderly, no prescription charges, and free University education among many others.

The idea of English kids being charged fees to enter Universities is mental........a 100 years of progressive politics washed down the pan.

Access to Uni shouldn't be dependent on Mummy and Daddy being able to pay the fees, it should be on ability. The idea of the elderly infirm losing all their savings and home to pay for geriatric care is cruel.

The idea of the sick being charged money for medicine in our country is repulsive.

So without getting into a long debate about the different social priorities, just take those three examples of how we put people and fairness first and ask yourself, who's got it right?

Of course you are right. But seems the UK as a whole cannot afford it, so l wonder how Scotland alone can afford it. ?

I cannot write here how l would fix stuff but am sure many can read my thoughts, BUT, how can Scotland do what the UK cannot ?. Remembering that the financial stuff now includes Scotland and all it's out of the way places.

[theblether]

2. Cameron needs to maintain the Union, the implications to the standing of the UK in World terms is far beyond what many people here now realize. For example, there is a campaign running just now to have the UK removed as a permanent member of the UN Security council, it is unlikely that the seat would be retained after Independence for Scotland. The UN Security Council seat has a value far beyond what most people here realize. That is only one of many issues that will come under scrutiny by the international community, and losing Scotland could relegate the UK into the second tier of countries within a generation. May I point out to our Commonwealth cousins, the UN Security Council seat is de facto their seat too, the UK uses the veto to represent the best interests of the UK and the Commonwealth. If we didn't have it, then we would have to rely even more on the ever weakening US for protection. Australians in particular should be switched on to the currents developments in regards to defence in their country. Like it or lump it, the Oz government knows the country is highly vulnerable to invasion due to the vast size of the place, so they need to put up more deterrent signals to possible Chinese expansionism, hence the token presence of US marines in Darwin.

I am Australian, however both my parents families came from Scotland so I have genetic sympathy for the Scottish position, I do wonder though that independence wouldn't have been offerred unless they knew it wasn't going to happen.

The UK dumped Australian trade and hurt us economically (temporarily) when it joined the Common Market, it is perceived as being interested in Europe, not Australia. We also leaned in WW2 when the Japanese were knocking and couldn't get our troops back for homeland defence how things stood, also that The UK was no longer a world power that could project military might to Asia. We have moved towards the US ever since.

It will be interesting to watch what happens, if independence then I suspect there will continue a very close relationship in many aspects.

"The UK dumped Australian trade and hurt us economically (temporarily) when it joined the Common Market, it is perceived as being interested in Europe, not Australia. We also leaned in WW2 when the Japanese were knocking and couldn't get our troops back for homeland defence how things stood, also that The UK was no longer a world power that could project military might to Asia. We have moved towards the US ever since."

Correct in all regards, our abandonment of our Commonwealth countries when we entered the Common Market was a disgrace. I also believe we should have a British carrier fleet permanently stationed in Australia, however we have decided it's more important to spend £23 Billion a year on housing benefit.

In many regards our priorities are so far wrong it's a disgrace.

[theblether]

Cos it's not all about the money.......it's all about looking after the poor and vulnerable, and giving opportunities to people......

Hence free care for the elderly, no prescription charges, and free University education among many others.

The idea of English kids being charged fees to enter Universities is mental........a 100 years of progressive politics washed down the pan.

Access to Uni shouldn't be dependent on Mummy and Daddy being able to pay the fees, it should be on ability. The idea of the elderly infirm losing all their savings and home to pay for geriatric care is cruel.

The idea of the sick being charged money for medicine in our country is repulsive.

So without getting into a long debate about the different social priorities, just take those three examples of how we put people and fairness first and ask yourself, who's got it right?

Of course you are right. But seems the UK as a whole cannot afford it, so l wonder how Scotland alone can afford it. ?

I cannot write here how l would fix stuff but am sure many can read my thoughts, BUT, how can Scotland do what the UK cannot ?. Remembering that the financial stuff now includes Scotland and all it's out of the way places.

The UK as a whole can afford it, however it's being hamstrung by people ripping the p*ss out of the system in every single way, and people not keeping up their side of the bargain.

[endure]

I also believe we should have a British carrier fleet permanently stationed in Australia, however we have decided it's more important to spend £23 Billion a year on housing benefit.

Isn't Australia a sovereign nation responsible for its own defence? Sounds a wee bit imperialistic to me...

[theblether]

I also believe we should have a British carrier fleet permanently stationed in Australia, however we have decided it's more important to spend £23 Billion a year on housing benefit.

Isn't Australia a sovereign nation responsible for its own defence? Sounds a wee bit imperialistic to me...

They have just invited the Americans Marines on to their soil, so what's that? Imperialism? Invitation? Mutually beneficial defence strategy? Grown up politics in a dangerous world?

Maybe you should write to the Oz Embassy and scold them for allowing the American Imperialists to take over Darwin.

[endure]

I also believe we should have a British carrier fleet permanently stationed in Australia, however we have decided it's more important to spend £23 Billion a year on housing benefit.

Isn't Australia a sovereign nation responsible for its own defence? Sounds a wee bit imperialistic to me...

They have just invited the Americans Marines on to their soil, so what's that? Imperialism? Invitation? Mutually beneficial defence strategy? Grown up politics in a dangerous world?

Maybe you should write to the Oz Embassy and scold them for allowing the American Imperialists to take over Darwin.

The operative word is 'invited'. Besides we haven't got a navy big enough to defend ourselves let alone the Ockas.

[theblether]

I also believe we should have a British carrier fleet permanently stationed in Australia, however we have decided it's more important to spend £23 Billion a year on housing benefit.

Isn't Australia a sovereign nation responsible for its own defence? Sounds a wee bit imperialistic to me...

They have just invited the Americans Marines on to their soil, so what's that? Imperialism? Invitation? Mutually beneficial defence strategy? Grown up politics in a dangerous world?

Maybe you should write to the Oz Embassy and scold them for allowing the American Imperialists to take over Darwin.

The operative word is 'invited'. Besides we haven't got a navy big enough to defend ourselves let alone the Ockas.

Correct, and if we were to do the same in this day and age it would be by invitation too. The decimation of our Navy is a disgrace, far too short sighted and against the national interest.

[baboon]

I am following this thread with interest. Please! Scots, Welsh, English, Irish - leave the past where it belongs and let us all direct our fury in the direction of the comfortable gets sitting in Parliament, idly discussing our future and how to pay off the banksters who are pillaging all our money..They are laughing their <deleted> off watching us squabble like chickens over the handful of grain they throw us. We all must stand together or we are done for!

[theblether]

I am following this thread with interest. Please! Scots, Welsh, English, Irish - leave the past where it belongs and let us all direct our fury in the direction of the comfortable gets sitting in Parliament, idly discussing our future and how to pay off the banksters who are pillaging all our money..They are laughing their <deleted> off watching us squabble like chickens over the handful of grain they throw us. We all must stand together or we are done for!

I would settle for the workers in the country being properly rewarded while the spongers were chain ganged back into work.

[folium]

The decimation of our Navy is a disgrace, far too short sighted and against the national interest.

We need a navy to defend the UK from.......??

Operating platforms in the shape of carriers when/if they are launched and a platform for delivering nukes (if Trident is replaced by another sub delivered system) will justify a future for the RN.

So it looks like if the RN is to have a strategic role to play in the future Salmond's nuclear free stance (and the government's statement today commiting to Faslane as the sole sub base and another 350 million sterling for son-of-Trident underlines the cost to Scotland and the RN of independence) will gut that faster than you can say gralloch.

RN or the Salmond fleet...your choice!

Edited October 29, 2012 by folium

[folium]

Cos it's not all about the money.......it's all about looking after the poor and vulnerable, and giving opportunities to people......

Hence free care for the elderly, no prescription charges, and free University education among many others.

The idea of English kids being charged fees to enter Universities is mental........a 100 years of progressive politics washed down the pan.

Access to Uni shouldn't be dependent on Mummy and Daddy being able to pay the fees, it should be on ability. The idea of the elderly infirm losing all their savings and home to pay for geriatric care is cruel.

The idea of the sick being charged money for medicine in our country is repulsive.

So without getting into a long debate about the different social priorities, just take those three examples of how we put people and fairness first and ask yourself, who's got it right?

Nice idea but all the good deeds you mention need a chunk of change to enable them to happen.

The big crossroads the UK is coming fast up to is an ending of universal benefits which was a silly idea in the first place. Free life time prescriptions for chronic conditions, child benefit, old age bus passes and fuel allowance etc, etc, for all make little sense when the recipients are well off.

All the fun perks currently enjoyed by Scotland's 6million inhabitants are currently part funded by UK/English taxpayers. Independence and declining oil revenues as the North Sea goes offline will make life a lot less rosy.

For a moment I thought you were being sincere about different priorities for Scotland but then all the mention of chain gangs and spongers, and welfare cheats and you went all "Daily Mail" on us...shame.

[theblether]

The decimation of our Navy is a disgrace, far too short sighted and against the national interest.

We need a navy to defend the UK from.......??

Operating platforms in the shape of carriers when/if they are launched and a platform for delivering nukes (if Trident is replaced by another sub delivered system) will justify a future for the RN.

So it looks like if the RN is to have a strategic role to play in the future Salmond's nuclear free stance (and the government's statement today commiting to Faslane as the sole sub base and another 350 million sterling for son-of-Trident underlines the cost to Scotland and the RN of independence) will gut that faster than you can say gralloch.

Oh defend from nobody.....that's it, just shut down the whole armed forces and go home.

Come on Folium.......no one is that naive, step up to the plate man. Nuclear weapons are weapons of last resort, if a conflict starts you need air cover ( aircraft carriers ), boots on the ground, ( soldiers and marines ), and transport,( merchant navy, protected by destroyers etc ).

Right now we couldn't defend ourselves from a mass attack by Disneyland pleasure cruisers. The first duty of any government is defence of the realm and we are now getting to the stage we were at back in the 1930's, completely unprepared for any moderate scale combat. We should be running with at least 3 carrier groups at any one time, an Atlantic group, a Pacific Group and an A.N. Other.

The vast majority of future conflicts are going to be Libya style conflicts and we've already scrapped some of the vessels that were involved in rescuing people from there.

The rest of your post is not worth commenting on. It's just political waffle.

[theblether]

Cos it's not all about the money.......it's all about looking after the poor and vulnerable, and giving opportunities to people......

Hence free care for the elderly, no prescription charges, and free University education among many others.

The idea of English kids being charged fees to enter Universities is mental........a 100 years of progressive politics washed down the pan.

Access to Uni shouldn't be dependent on Mummy and Daddy being able to pay the fees, it should be on ability. The idea of the elderly infirm losing all their savings and home to pay for geriatric care is cruel.

The idea of the sick being charged money for medicine in our country is repulsive.

So without getting into a long debate about the different social priorities, just take those three examples of how we put people and fairness first and ask yourself, who's got it right?

Nice idea but all the good deeds you mention need a chunk of change to enable them to happen.

The big crossroads the UK is coming fast up to is an ending of universal benefits which was a silly idea in the first place. Free life time prescriptions for chronic conditions, child benefit, old age bus passes and fuel allowance etc, etc, for all make little sense when the recipients are well off.

All the fun perks currently enjoyed by Scotland's 6million inhabitants are currently part funded by UK/English taxpayers. Independence and declining oil revenues as the North Sea goes offline will make life a lot less rosy.

For a moment I thought you were being sincere about different priorities for Scotland but then all the mention of chain gangs and spongers, and welfare cheats and you went all "Daily Mail" on us...shame.

I'll acknowledge that I've read this post but I'm not going to waste my time answering it.

[folium]

Cos it's not all about the money.......it's all about looking after the poor and vulnerable, and giving opportunities to people......

Hence free care for the elderly, no prescription charges, and free University education among many others.

The idea of English kids being charged fees to enter Universities is mental........a 100 years of progressive politics washed down the pan.

Access to Uni shouldn't be dependent on Mummy and Daddy being able to pay the fees, it should be on ability. The idea of the elderly infirm losing all their savings and home to pay for geriatric care is cruel.

The idea of the sick being charged money for medicine in our country is repulsive.

So without getting into a long debate about the different social priorities, just take those three examples of how we put people and fairness first and ask yourself, who's got it right?

Nice idea but all the good deeds you mention need a chunk of change to enable them to happen.

The big crossroads the UK is coming fast up to is an ending of universal benefits which was a silly idea in the first place. Free life time prescriptions for chronic conditions, child benefit, old age bus passes and fuel allowance etc, etc, for all make little sense when the recipients are well off.

All the fun perks currently enjoyed by Scotland's 6million inhabitants are currently part funded by UK/English taxpayers. Independence and declining oil revenues as the North Sea goes offline will make life a lot less rosy.

For a moment I thought you were being sincere about different priorities for Scotland but then all the mention of chain gangs and spongers, and welfare cheats and you went all "Daily Mail" on us...shame.

I'll acknowledge that I've read this post but I'm not going to waste my time answering it.

Gosh...that's big of you.

[folium]

The decimation of our Navy is a disgrace, far too short sighted and against the national interest.

We need a navy to defend the UK from.......??

Operating platforms in the shape of carriers when/if they are launched and a platform for delivering nukes (if Trident is replaced by another sub delivered system) will justify a future for the RN.

So it looks like if the RN is to have a strategic role to play in the future Salmond's nuclear free stance (and the government's statement today commiting to Faslane as the sole sub base and another 350 million sterling for son-of-Trident underlines the cost to Scotland and the RN of independence) will gut that faster than you can say gralloch.

Oh defend from nobody.....that's it, just shut down the whole armed forces and go home.

Come on Folium.......no one is that naive, step up to the plate man. Nuclear weapons are weapons of last resort, if a conflict starts you need air cover ( aircraft carriers ), boots on the ground, ( soldiers and marines ), and transport,( merchant navy, protected by destroyers etc ).

Right now we couldn't defend ourselves from a mass attack by Disneyland pleasure cruisers. The first duty of any government is defence of the realm and we are now getting to the stage we were at back in the 1930's, completely unprepared for any moderate scale combat. We should be running with at least 3 carrier groups at any one time, an Atlantic group, a Pacific Group and an A.N. Other.

The vast majority of future conflicts are going to be Libya style conflicts and we've already scrapped some of the vessels that were involved in rescuing people from there.

The rest of your post is not worth commenting on. It's just political waffle.

For those with a slightly more realistic view of the world 3 carrier groups are a thing of the distant past, like it or not. Personally I would be very happy to junk Trident and son of, and reinvest the proceeds in conventional forces especially those appropriate to the likely threat profile of the future rather than the past.

Guns or butter remains the key debate and in straitened circumstances the military will always get it in the neck as politicians look to cash in on the peace dividend post Afghan.

If Scotland goes independent it will have to make similar stark choices and it will be grannies, free tuition etc or boots on the ground. Perhaps Salmond will take the anti-nuclear stance to the logical conclusion and scrap all Scottish military following in Costa Rica's footsteps, to keep the bulk of voters happy with freebies. What's really sad is that undermanned Scottish regiments (all 5 Scottish inf battalions survive and the woefully underrecruited Scots DG) are being spared cuts at the present in order to avoid political repercussions while non Scottish regiments (2RRF, 2 Welsh, QRL/9/12L) go to the wall or amalgamation.

[theblether]

My pleasure Folium.........I enjoyed your earlier post with all the links re the economy but you've gone badly downhill since. You must be exhausted, go have a lie down and a wee think about what you've said in your last two posts.

Google Neville Chamberlain while you're at it.

edit. Make that your last three posts.

Edited October 29, 2012 by theblether

[folium]

My pleasure Folium.........I enjoyed your earlier post with all the links re the economy but you've gone badly downhill since. You must be exhausted, go have a lie down and a wee think about what you've said in your last two posts.

Google Neville Chamberlain while you're at it.

edit. Make that your last three posts.

Gloriously patronising but I won't rise to the bait.

Still waiting for an answer as to what makes Scotland any different to any other post industrial, peripheral region of the UK.

Also it's a little rich to be banging the drum for national defence when you seek to dismember the union.....cake and eat it?

[theblether]

My pleasure Folium.........I enjoyed your earlier post with all the links re the economy but you've gone badly downhill since. You must be exhausted, go have a lie down and a wee think about what you've said in your last two posts.

Google Neville Chamberlain while you're at it.

edit. Make that your last three posts.

Gloriously patronising but I won't rise to the bait.

Still waiting for an answer as to what makes Scotland any different to any other post industrial, peripheral region of the UK.

Also it's a little rich to be banging the drum for national defence when you seek to dismember the union.....cake and eat it?

I would prefer to call it searingly accurate......anyone that contests we don't need a strong Navy has a touch of the Chamberlains about them.

I've answered your second point, it just so happens you don't like the answer, your looking forward to a society where hard work results in you being denied universal benefits, and where the spongers can get everything handed to them on a plate. That's a corruption of the social contract and a betrayal of the founding fathers of the welfare state.

Scotland has it right already in this regards to the issues I mentioned earlier, and there is much more we can do, such as tapered relief for people caught in the pensions trap, where a works pension leaves them above benefits entitlement and the nett effect is to make them poorer in disposable income terms than the people that didn't bother paying into a works pension. These are clear and current diabolical corruptions of the social contract which have been allowed to fester unresolved for decades in England, Scotland is now tackling them, I would say, that's a substantial difference in outlook eh?

By the way, I've got my British Army number......have you? I'm not that stupid that I can't see faults in the argument for separation, I've already stated that there is a deal that can be done that will satisfy a lot of we Independence supporters and mutually benefit the whole of the United Kingdom. National Defence is one of these areas.

I am an Independence supporter, I am not an SNP member and I never will be, however I have donated to them in the past and I will donate during this upcoming campaign. I don't agree with every policy, I believe that defence of our Island is paramount, I believe that the RAF and Royal Navy should carry on in it's current form under the direct control of the UK government, with proportional funding coming from Scotland, I believe that Trident should stay in Scotland, I am firmly against the current policy of Scotland leaving ( or not joining if you prefer ) NATO, and I believe that Scotland should re-invest in nuclear power.

As for our foot soldiers, they should be under Scottish command and any request to send them in to combat should be approved by the Scottish Parliament. I can guarantee you that under those circumstances they would have not been in Iraq, and quite frankly, neither would the English regiments. Tony Blair knew he was lying, we all knew he was lying, but he forced through the lie due to his massive majority in the Westminster Parliament. He was needing a check and balance to his egotistical ballooning, the Scots would have refused the troops and the whole sorry episode would have been called off.

In this regard the Scottish politicians and public called it right again, it's the only conflict I can think of in my adult life that the Scots would have refused to join. Scots have got no problems fighting rightful wars.

[David48]

I need to withdraw my mea culpa......I was right again, the interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90, in response to the Lawson Boom and overheating in the South East housing market.

This introduced the phrase"negative equity" to the British public.

So now it's your turn to apologize. Who's first?

Speaking of the Housing Market ... what is your (the readers) thoughts will happen to the Scottish Real Estate Market.

thinking ... residential housing, farm prices, commercial or industrial prices?

Would there be a gradual slow exodus of some of the population not happy with the prospect of an Independent Scotland who seek brighter economic and employment opportunities elsewhere?

[theblether]

I need to withdraw my mea culpa......I was right again, the interest rate was 15% from October 89 - October 90, in response to the Lawson Boom and overheating in the South East housing market.

This introduced the phrase"negative equity" to the British public.

So now it's your turn to apologize. Who's first?

Speaking of the Housing Market ... what is your (the readers) thoughts will happen to the Scottish Real Estate Market.

thinking ... residential housing, farm prices, commercial or industrial prices?

Would there be a gradual slow exodus of some of the population not happy with the prospect of an Independent Scotland who seek brighter economic and employment opportunities elsewhere?

Nope......behave yourself sir.

[David48]

Cos it's not all about the money.......it's all about looking after the poor and vulnerable, and giving opportunities to people......

Hence free care for the elderly, no prescription charges, and free University education among many others.

The idea of English kids being charged fees to enter Universities is mental........a 100 years of progressive politics washed down the pan.

Access to Uni shouldn't be dependent on Mummy and Daddy being able to pay the fees, it should be on ability. The idea of the elderly infirm losing all their savings and home to pay for geriatric care is cruel.

The idea of the sick being charged money for medicine in our country is repulsive.

So without getting into a long debate about the different social priorities, just take those three examples of how we put people and fairness first and ask yourself, who's got it right?

Actually, the majority of the things that you mention above, we no longer (thankfully) have in Australia.

One of the joys of being Australian is that we have embraced the compassion of the UK system (without mirroring it) yet have the spirit and entrepreneurial energy that the United States enjoy.

Universities are not free here ... neither should they be.

If you wish to study at University, it is a merit based system.

You can apply for a low interest government loan to attend and you repay this loan once you are earning a viable working wage.

Nor is the Healthcare system entirely free as that really fosters abuse of the system and no acknowledgement of the cost to the countries health budget.

There is a co-payment for medical services ... a very low co-payment to keep it affordable.

How is this relevant to the OP?

Well, if Scotland does eventually gain Independence, it will have to consider the model for it's social structure.

[smokie36]

I just want my milk delivered every day. I'm a single issue voter.

[nontabury]

You lot can forget about interest rates 30 years ago. We are now. What happens if Scotland is alone IS the major factor.

You might see horrendous increases in taxes etc, because you are alone.

Just my thoughts.

Not because we're alone, but because we're daft socialists with a poor grip of economics in thrall to a demagogic megalomaniac

Very true

[nontabury]

Cos it's not all about the money.......it's all about looking after the poor and vulnerable, and giving opportunities to people......

Hence free care for the elderly, no prescription charges, and free University education among many others.

The idea of English kids being charged fees to enter Universities is mental........a 100 years of progressive politics washed down the pan.

Access to Uni shouldn't be dependent on Mummy and Daddy being able to pay the fees, it should be on ability. The idea of the elderly infirm losing all their savings and home to pay for geriatric care is cruel.

L

The idea of the sick being charged money for medicine in our country is repulsive.

So without getting into a long debate about the different social priorities, just take those three examples of how we put people and fairness first and ask yourself, who's got it right?

All this and you still want us to have a mighty navel fleet patrolling the Pacific,come on get real. We cannot continue to box on above our weight, be realistic and acknowledge we are a small country,if we want to have a strong military option to protect our interest it's got to be with NATO or at least with the Americans.Oh,and by the way i've also got a service No.