High Pressure Water Cleaners

[manarak]

I'm looking for an entry-level water cleaner and wonder what brands are available in Thailand and which model would TV members recommend from experience?

I have read up a bit on these machines, and the most important things for me are:

- cleaning power (obviously)

- lifespan

For the first criteria, it seems that 120 bar pressure would be good.

For the lifespan, the pump must be corrosion-resistent, for example made of aluminium or stainless steel/ceramic.

Some models that seem adequate according to my reading were:

- Kärcher K 400 Ecosilent ALU

- Stihl RE 108

Are these available in Thailand?

Are there others you would recommend?

What was your experience with high pressure water cleaners?

Thanks!

[sezze]

Various brands are available in Thailand , next to these ones . They offer more or less the same at the same priceclass . Pressure on these do not really matter , the pressure is only a nr like the megapixel of a camera . The most important factor of a pressure cleaner is the amount of water which he can pump . The higher this nr , the higher the cleaning power . Even the simplest of models , give plenty of pressure .

[manarak]

well, obviously both pressure and water flow are required.

Visited 8 shops today, including Big C, Tesco, Homepro, Homeworks and Homemart.

Homepro had the best range.

Zinsano... has anyone used one for over three years?

Italian sounding name, but when I searched the net for it, only pages related to Thailand came up.

Made in China.

They seem to have paid their way into every shop.

I could get a hold of their brochure and alloy pumps were only praised for the higher class models (15k and up).

So I assume the cheaper models have pumps that will corrode quickly.

Kärcher...

The models sold in Thailand seem to be based on models made for the US market.

The references are unknown in Germany, and the US page didn't give any useful information on pressure or on the material the pump is made of.

The K 4.00 Ecosilent ALU is not available in Thailand.

:-/

I'm not sure why they need to make different models for Europe and the US / Thailand.

Maybe they know they wouldn't get away with selling crap in Germany.

Stihl: didn't find any Stihl.

Black & Decker: Homepro currently has the PW 2100 SPB for sale at only 5990 baht.

If the label is to be believed, it can theoretically pump 420 l/min at 140 bar, and the guy at homepro pitched that B&W had a repair and service center right here in Pattaya.

B&W washers regularly rated badly in European product reviews before B&W more or less withdrew from that market in Europe.

Even more worrying is that search for this product only yielded results for India and other "prime markets". Could not find a single review from Europe or North America.

While the price of that B&W is certainly attractive, I am very hesitant to buy it.

A brand widely sold in Thailand stores is Bosch, and the models sold are mostly in line with what's known in Europe, except for the "aquatak click 125", 115, 120, and 130.

Again, I'm puzzled why these models can't be found on the Bosch homepage.

The click 125 and 115 are found on the turkish homepage though... what's up with that??

Bosch has much better reputation than Black & Decker and their pressure cleaners always rated "above average" in tests.

Homepro also sold Ryobi brand models.

So far, my favorite is Bosch.

Inputs?

[Pib]

Right after the late 2011 flood I bought a Zinsano Andaman 120bar pressure washer. Got it on sale at Big C in Nakhon Pathom for around 7K baht if I remember the price right...it was like 50% off regular price if I remember right. Here's a picture/link of the Andaman model.

Zinsano's are sold in many Thai stores like HomePro, Global, Makro, Big C, etc. I used the crap out of this pressure washer for a couple months after the flood to include stripping paint on concrete walls around my Bangkok home....and for a few days it was used almost continuously during the daylight hours in cleaning walls, tiles, rocks, road brick, etc. And using the adjustable lance set to the pencil stream setting you can literally carve your name on a concrete wall....like taking a metal object and scrapping into the concrete....I used this stream setting to completely remove paint off concrete wall but not holding it close enough to crave my name...takes the paint right off right down to the concrete very quickly. It's got a master power switch which turns the washer on and off...and after turning on this master switch the washer takes about two seconds to build up initial pressure and then turns off....then, when you squeeze the lance water valve it starts running...release the valve and it stops. It's lite, stands a little above knee hight, and seems/feels strudy.

Knock on wood....it been used a lot and been problem free...and I'm so glad I bought it as it makes outdoor cleaning jobs fast and easy....and almost fun in using the washer. Use it for about an hour this weekend to clean some aglae off some walls and walkways.

I would not, repeat, would not buy a washer that is much below 120bar as several people on my soi also bought pressure washers but bought these models that were around 70-90bar and they just don't have enough pressure to do any serious cleaning....OK for washing a car I guess, but not very good for quickly cleaning concrete floors, tiles, walls, rocks, etc--just not enough pressure.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Pib

[manarak]

Knock on wood....it been used a lot and been problem free...and I'm so glad I bought it as it makes outdoor cleaning jobs fast and easy....and almost fun in using the washer. Use it for about an hour this weekend to clean some aglae off some walls and walkways.

I'm more concerned about units that are left unused for 6 months before being used again. Frequent use is the best way to keep the pump clean and free of corrosion.

[Pib]

Knock on wood....it been used a lot and been problem free...and I'm so glad I bought it as it makes outdoor cleaning jobs fast and easy....and almost fun in using the washer. Use it for about an hour this weekend to clean some aglae off some walls and walkways.

I'm more concerned about units that are left unused for 6 months before being used again. Frequent use is the best way to keep the pump clean and free of corrosion.

I won't argue with that. I've owned my current washer about 11 months now...it's been used a good deal especially as I mentioned right after the flood...but there was probably a 3 month period since owning it that it was not used. When I store it I always drain as much water out of it as possible by tilting it back and forth numerous ways until no more water drips out.

Before when living in the States I owned a Karcher gas-power model that put out around 130bar. It worked pretty good but I had frequent problems with the lance control and had to repair the pump once due to corrosion at about the 2 year point ....I owned it for about 3 years and used it about every 2-3 months. I probably wouldn't buy another Karcher.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Pib

[luudee]

Various brands are available in Thailand , next to these ones . They offer more or less the same at the same priceclass . Pressure on these do not really matter , the pressure is only a nr like the megapixel of a camera . The most important factor of a pressure cleaner is the amount of water which he can pump . The higher this nr , the higher the cleaning power . Even the simplest of models , give plenty of pressure .

Not quite accurate. Pressure DOES matter - that's what determines the velocity of the water jet and the

actual cleaning power. The water volume is important as well, as it will influence the jet size. The larger

the volume the larger the jet at a give pressure. Typically you would want a large jet as it allows you to

clean a larger area at a time.

I've had my Kärcher for over 6 years. The nozzle is now a bit worn out and I should probably look for a

replacement for that. Otherwise I'm quite happy with it.

rudi

[sezze]

Various brands are available in Thailand , next to these ones . They offer more or less the same at the same priceclass . Pressure on these do not really matter , the pressure is only a nr like the megapixel of a camera . The most important factor of a pressure cleaner is the amount of water which he can pump . The higher this nr , the higher the cleaning power . Even the simplest of models , give plenty of pressure .

Not quite accurate. Pressure DOES matter - that's what determines the velocity of the water jet and the

actual cleaning power. The water volume is important as well, as it will influence the jet size. The larger

the volume the larger the jet at a give pressure. Typically you would want a large jet as it allows you to

clean a larger area at a time.

I've had my Kärcher for over 6 years. The nozzle is now a bit worn out and I should probably look for a

replacement for that. Otherwise I'm quite happy with it.

rudi

Sure the pressure does matter . But even the simplest models i know of give +100 bar , which is more then plenty ( if you do not believe it , put the small beam (highest pressure ) point at your feet or hand ... you will know it is sufficient ) . The flow is the 2nd rating and i will take a 100 bar / 500lpm above a 150bar /300lpm at any single time .

I do have a Zinsano , and since it is only needed to clean the sandwash finish around the house and some occasional spraying of the car ( not too close and wide beam ) ; i took the simplest model . It workes for me , and so far no fault . I have it since this year so no feedback on any issues . I did have a Karcher model a few years back in Europe and all i can say is that the technique improved quite a lot in the last 10 years ( or is the Zinsano better ? ) . The engine shuts down immediatly as soon as you release the pistol and opposite .

[TS79]

Right after the late 2011 flood I bought a Zinsano Andaman 120bar pressure washer. Got it on sale at Big C in Nakhon Pathom for around 7K baht if I remember the price right...it was like 50% off regular price if I remember right. Here's a picture/link of the Andaman model.

Zinsano's are sold in many Thai stores like HomePro, Global, Makro, Big C, etc. I used the crap out of this pressure washer for a couple months after the flood to include stripping paint on concrete walls around my Bangkok home....and for a few days it was used almost continuously during the daylight hours in cleaning walls, tiles, rocks, road brick, etc. And using the adjustable lance set to the pencil stream setting you can literally carve your name on a concrete wall....like taking a metal object and scrapping into the concrete....I used this stream setting to completely remove paint off concrete wall but not holding it close enough to crave my name...takes the paint right off right down to the concrete very quickly. It's got a master power switch which turns the washer on and off...and after turning on this master switch the washer takes about two seconds to build up initial pressure and then turns off....then, when you squeeze the lance water valve it starts running...release the valve and it stops. It's lite, stands a little above knee hight, and seems/feels strudy.

Knock on wood....it been used a lot and been problem free...and I'm so glad I bought it as it makes outdoor cleaning jobs fast and easy....and almost fun in using the washer. Use it for about an hour this weekend to clean some aglae off some walls and walkways.

I would not, repeat, would not buy a washer that is much below 120bar as several people on my soi also bought pressure washers but bought these models that were around 70-90bar and they just don't have enough pressure to do any serious cleaning....OK for washing a car I guess, but not very good for quickly cleaning concrete floors, tiles, walls, rocks, etc--just not enough pressure.

I have a Zinsano also and agree with PIB's evaluation, pretty good solid device. Mine has not been used that frequently of late, with periods of non-use between 6 - 12 months and (touch wood) has fired up every time I've turned it on. It must be 3-years old and one of the reasons I opted for Zinsano over Karcher is that there are more local service centres should something need repairing / replacing.

When I do use it, it gets a good hammering cleaning the sandwash floor around the pool after rainy season has accumulated dirt and algae in it, also outside the front of the house when the pavements get all black, it carves right into it no problem.

[Pib]

Good point about the local service centers. I remember now, before I bought the Zinsano one thing I researched was the availability of repair locations and there was plenty in Thailand with what I think was the main one being here in Bangkok where I live.

[Pib]

Right after the late 2011 flood I bought a Zinsano Andaman 120bar pressure washer. Got it on sale at Big C in Nakhon Pathom for around 7K baht if I remember the price right...it was like 50% off regular price if I remember right. Here's a picture/link of the Andaman model.

Zinsano's are sold in many Thai stores like HomePro, Global, Makro, Big C, etc. I used the crap out of this pressure washer for a couple months after the flood to include stripping paint on concrete walls around my Bangkok home....and for a few days it was used almost continuously during the daylight hours in cleaning walls, tiles, rocks, road brick, etc. And using the adjustable lance set to the pencil stream setting you can literally carve your name on a concrete wall....like taking a metal object and scrapping into the concrete....I used this stream setting to completely remove paint off concrete wall but not holding it close enough to crave my name...takes the paint right off right down to the concrete very quickly. It's got a master power switch which turns the washer on and off...and after turning on this master switch the washer takes about two seconds to build up initial pressure and then turns off....then, when you squeeze the lance water valve it starts running...release the valve and it stops. It's lite, stands a little above knee hight, and seems/feels strudy.

Knock on wood....it been used a lot and been problem free...and I'm so glad I bought it as it makes outdoor cleaning jobs fast and easy....and almost fun in using the washer. Use it for about an hour this weekend to clean some aglae off some walls and walkways.

I would not, repeat, would not buy a washer that is much below 120bar as several people on my soi also bought pressure washers but bought these models that were around 70-90bar and they just don't have enough pressure to do any serious cleaning....OK for washing a car I guess, but not very good for quickly cleaning concrete floors, tiles, walls, rocks, etc--just not enough pressure.

Just FYI on the current cost of this pressure washer, I was at a Makro in Bankgok today and the Zinsana Andaman model is on sale for B4,190 with a normal price of B6,350. It's on sale through the end of October...probably on sale at all Makro's in Thailand. That B7,000 I mentioned in my above post must have been the approx retail price when I got mine but I got mine on sale also...and the more I think about it the more I'm now thinking I got it for around B4,200...can't find the receipt but I did find my 1 year warranty card and it says I bought the washer on 17 Nov 11 with the warranty expiring on 17 Nov 12.. Anyway, it has worked go for the 11 plus months I owned it.

[howto]

I agree with Pib.

I've a Zinsano AR610 BlueClean.

I too have used mine hard for hours on end,

doing eactly what Pib used his unit for.

The Zinsano BlueClean is a rebranded

Aannovi Reverberi VIP AR-610.

Cam drive w/ 3 ceramic sleeves, stainless pistons.

Spec at 130 bar, Gauge reads almost 140 bar.

8.3 lt/m

Heavy duty motor, 2.2 kw, 12 amps at 230v.

The difference is in the

- motor

- the pump head

Cheap units have cheap motors

and use wobble plate pumps.

The AR610 BlueClean

does not shut off the motor with trigger release,

it goes into bypass mode.

AR says no more than 15 minutes in bypass.

I break after 30 min for 15 min, just to be careful.

Note: Holding the trigger will tire your hand,

I tied mine down with copper wire.

Ordered from Chumsin 2008-06-23

Paid 11,400 THB

I mounted it on a 2-wheel baggage trolly.

For the incoming water supply...

- a dedicated 1800 lit tank

- a 1 hp centrifugal pump

- 60 meters of 5/8 hose

In addition, from SuperProducts I use

- a 3/4" water filter/strainer at the AR

- quick-click hose connectors at the AR.

{incoming supply and to the AR)

2008~2010 I had a water supply from ground.

Lot of trash.

in mid 2010 got PWA city water,

it still has trash upon occasion.

For power I use

40 meter of 2x2.5 sq.mm solid core,

to keep the volt drop low.

Do use a good plug and receptical.

After 50 hours of use, after breakin,

change the oil...

- use non-detergent 30w (now hard to find)

- or 90w SAE gear oil

(essentially 40w in viscosity}

- or 10-40w for 4-stroke motorcycles

Aannovi Reverberi (Italy)

http://www.annovireverberi.it/en/cleaners/blueclean-ar

Aannovi Reverberi (North America)

http://www.arnorthamerica.com/industrialpw.html

A local importer/distributor in BKK...

http://www.singsanguan.co.th/

*Bought a 25 meter hose from them in January.

Unit is available at HomePro and many other places.

OK for a compaison...

I started another thread...

'bout Somchai the expensive painter...

Ms. HowTo walked him thru the property...

he saw my AR-VIP-610,

claimed he had one just like it...

asked him 2x to comfirm. He said yes.

He arrived with a cheap china POS.

Hoses are different, don't fit.

After 15 minutes of use, it overheated.

He blamed my power and water supply.

Wrong, the dam_n thing thermally shut down.

20 minutes later it functions.

Oops.

Note: There are several accessories,

including a stainless quik-connect swivel,

great to use the existing hose + a longer hose.

No accessories are avaiable here.

Guess can be ordered from (NA or Italy)

I would love to have the above,

plus a rotor head.

Note: Caution with the longer hose,

two types are available here...

- 1, same OD as org hose (was NOT at HomePro)

- 1, huge fat softer hose (was at HomePro)

(it's heavy when full of H20)

OK

Well, in this class of machines,

you get what you pay for.

I have no regrets of this unit, even given it's cost.

However,

I cannot speak for 2012 units...

nor the unit that Pib owns,

which is not the same as mine.

[luudee]

Sure the pressure does matter . But even the simplest models i know of give +100 bar , which is more then plenty ( if you do not believe it , put the small beam (highest pressure ) point at your feet or hand ... you will know it is sufficient ) . The flow is the 2nd rating and i will take a 100 bar / 500lpm above a 150bar /300lpm at any single time .

I do have a Zinsano , and since it is only needed to clean the sandwash finish around the house and some occasional spraying of the car ( not too close and wide beam ) ; i took the simplest model . It workes for me , and so far no fault . I have it since this year so no feedback on any issues . I did have a Karcher model a few years back in Europe and all i can say is that the technique improved quite a lot in the last 10 years ( or is the Zinsano better ? ) . The engine shuts down immediatly as soon as you release the pistol and opposite .

To point a high pressure cleaner at your hands or feet is a very silly (if not plain out stupid) thing to do ! Please don't try that folks !

The required pressure and water volume will depend on the task at hand. And I can see why you prefer the higher water volume over the pressure. Based on the application you describe. High pressure and high water volume typically go hand in hand ...

Anyhow, I would really love to see the unit that does 500 liters per minute (lpm) ! Most household units will do 5-10 lpm ....

rudi

[sezze]

Sure the pressure does matter . But even the simplest models i know of give +100 bar , which is more then plenty ( if you do not believe it , put the small beam (highest pressure ) point at your feet or hand ... you will know it is sufficient ) . The flow is the 2nd rating and i will take a 100 bar / 500lpm above a 150bar /300lpm at any single time .

I do have a Zinsano , and since it is only needed to clean the sandwash finish around the house and some occasional spraying of the car ( not too close and wide beam ) ; i took the simplest model . It workes for me , and so far no fault . I have it since this year so no feedback on any issues . I did have a Karcher model a few years back in Europe and all i can say is that the technique improved quite a lot in the last 10 years ( or is the Zinsano better ? ) . The engine shuts down immediatly as soon as you release the pistol and opposite .

To point a high pressure cleaner at your hands or feet is a very silly (if not plain out stupid) thing to do ! Please don't try that folks !

The required pressure and water volume will depend on the task at hand. And I can see why you prefer the higher water volume over the pressure. Based on the application you describe. High pressure and high water volume typically go hand in hand ...

Anyhow, I would really love to see the unit that does 500 liters per minute (lpm) ! Most household units will do 5-10 lpm ....

rudi

The nr's are just figures of speach . It is the message what matters . 100 bars are plenty , and will ruin everything if you point a small beam at it ( it will destroy your carpaint ) , and that nr all high pressure washers give . Then a 2nd nr comes in play , which is liters per minute . The higher that nr , the better , at the same or even lower pressure . That is why people think that those cheaper models do not have enough pressure while they give 100 or 120 bar . They do not give the flow of the higher models .

Many people do not know what pressure/flow is ... since they abstract things for them . 100 bar is more then plenty to kill you multiple times ... it is 1000 meters of water level ( 1 bar equals 10 m water high ) .

[Langsuan Man]

Just FYI on the current cost of this pressure washer, I was at a Makro in Bankgok today and the Zinsana Andaman model is on sale for B4,190 with a normal price of B6,350. It's on sale through the end of October...probably on sale at all Makro's in Thailand. That B7,000 I mentioned in my above post must have been the approx retail price when I got mine but I got mine on sale also...and the more I think about it the more I'm now thinking I got it for around B4,200...can't find the receipt but I did find my 1 year warranty card and it says I bought the washer on 17 Nov 11 with the warranty expiring on 17 Nov 12.. Anyway, it has worked go for the 11 plus months I owned it.

Not available at the Makro in Pattaya, looked last night