Pitak Siam group not justified to hold anti-govt rally at Nang Loeng horse race track this Sun.,44.39% of 1,318 people polled by Suan Dusit said /The Nation

Just a couple of a percent off a huge majority.

I can't believe the crass stupidity of some posters here in talking about supporting a coup. The very reason Thai politics is such a universal joke is precisely because the arms and functions of good governance have never ever been allowed to grow and develop. Every time things become difficult their answer is a coup; and this is the difference between 'Thai democracy' and 'western democracy'. In the west when a putrid government needs removing, there are mechanisms with which it can be effected. Even in Australia when the Whitlam government was removed from office, the mechanism was legal. People get what they deserve and what they want. Time and time again the Shinawatra political machine has been given an overwhelming mandate. Were the votes bought? most likely BUT.. and this is the important part... that is the way here until Thailand learns to mature politically. So, give us all a rest and start thinking for a change.

So I take it that this rally is not in support of reconcilliation.....?

If you hadn't noticed, reconciliation has never actually been on anyone's agenda. Thaksin' team introduced the whole reconcile idea shebang because saying what they actually meant - whitewash Thaksin - didn't sound so good.

I think you will find that Truth and Reconciliation Commission was set up by Abhisit before "Thaksin' team" were voted back in.

So I take it that this rally is not in support of reconcilliation.....?

If you hadn't noticed, reconciliation has never actually been on anyone's agenda. Thaksin' team introduced the whole reconcile idea shebang because saying what they actually meant - whitewash Thaksin - didn't sound so good.

I think you will find that Truth and Reconciliation Commission was set up by Abhisit before "Thaksin' team" were voted back in.

Yes that's true but Thaksin's team were the ones that put the whole so called "reconcilliation" business on the table. Abhisit set up the TRC just to be able to say he was addressing the (mock) request. Double bluff if you will.

Edited October 27, 201213 yr by rixalex

<snipped other posts for brevity>

Well defend countries or fight wars is moot.

Now most of the examples you give are situations where change is occuring, and the people within the country will fight for which ever result they prefer.

Bushs wars were divided into two, one justified and the other not. Al Qaeda was a threat to the USA. Iraq was a political con. When politicians lie there should be serious consequences. In another era, Tony Blair would be up for lying to parliament. Simple really

Hitler got to where he was by fooling the system into giving him absolute control and subjugating democracy. So, pursuing ,.protecting and strengthening democracy is in my opinion, always a better idea than believing that an army intervention strengthens the country.

In the long run it leaves a country weaker.

Could one not say this:

"Thaksin Shinawatra is getting to where he wants to be by fooling the system into giving him absolute control and subjugating democracy." Even though he spouts "True democracy" whenever he has the chance, his idea of democracy is somewhat different than a dictionary definition.

I think it is fairer to say that he is pursuing, protecting and strengthening his control of the Kingdom in order to eventually have a one party state with him as President and his family as ministerial bosses. Time, in this case, is on his side.

In the long run, this makes the country weaker.

People are waking up to the fact that government Sicilian style does not equal democracy even here in bewildered Thailand

I dont know why you would say, that the People are waking up to what you are describing as a Sicillian style Gov.

Seems to be quite the opposite according to this bit of news.

http://www.thaivisa....democrats-poll/

Do you havw any idea what the questions were and which group they were aimed at?

You can get any poll rtesult you want depending on the way the question is worded and the target group yo are aiming for.

I'm against this protest myself, but what I find amusing is all the red riot supporters are saying things like it's better to let the country sort it out through the ballot box, when 2 1/2 years ago a bunch of paid for thugs obviously decided it wasn't better to wait 18 months for a scheduled election, or even the 6 offered at the time, but to hold a mass murder and mayhem melee in the centre of Bangkok, and some of the provinces, cheered on by the same voices bleating about giving democracy a chance. Reconciliation be damned, let's burn the place down if you don't give us what we want.

I also wonder would things have remained this peaceful (so far) if the Democrats had managed to form a coalition last year? The threats were coming out from the red camp even before the election took place. I believe the back drop of random grenade attacks and organised protests would have restarted, and there might well have already been a coup to try and control the situation. Just my own considered opinion, and no doubt it will be attacked by those unwilling to see further than Thaksin's outstretched hand, but it certainly gives food for thought when considering just who is the anti reconciliation side. People conveniently forget the Samak government too was left to get on with trying to run the country, and the 2008 yellow protests only begun when Somchai spent more time trying to bring Thaksin back than do said running. I'm sure a smart man once said something about repeating an action and expecting different results. And that goes for both sides.

Meanwhile, opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva announced that the opposition was seeking to launch a censure debate on November 26 and 27. He advised the prime minister to be present in Parliament to answer questions herself during the debate if she did not want her government to be damaged

She can't be bothered, as she's too important to answer questions she doesn't nearly understand.--

Meanwhile, opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva announced that the opposition was seeking to launch a censure debate on November 26 and 27. He advised the prime minister to be present in Parliament to answer questions herself during the debate if she did not want her government to be damaged

She can't be bothered, as she's too important to answer questions she doesn't nearly understand.--

Abhisit is pathetic......the government damaged??? How?

Abhisit can't win. And Thailand is split in people who hate Thaksin, in people who love him and in people who vote for money.

No matter what Abhisit is doing.....

Hiding behind the word 'democracy' to justify grand theft on unimaginable scales, it is clear the roots of corruption are so deep seated, these screamingly obvious fiscal failures are propagated without any fear of reprisal or prosecution by Yingluck and the Shinanwatra clan who simply have the country in a strangle hold whilst milking the coffers dry. This rally may go a long way towards their overthrow, if not by election, then by a coup.

I hope you are right!!!

As one of the key people behind the 2006 coup it is hardly surprising that Prasong is supporting this rally. It will be interesting to see how many actually turn up for it.

Why is that not surprising? The actual coup leader himself has already sold out to Thaksin.

I love it when all the expats rant in favor of a military coup in Thailand - something unthinkable and never happens in their home countries. Such hypocrits!

yes but I would also prefer a military coup in some western country. Actually I think it would be the duty of the military if the government wants to start a war.

Which western country comes to mind? Militaries fight wars, and should stick to that.

in a country where the laws of the land, constitution, charter, courts, police etc fail to stamp out corruption then the military is there to pull it all back into line, I'm amazed this debacle has been allowed to continue for so long, as I said on another thread - in my minds eye I see hundreds of reds and PT Mp's in a bank vault surrounded with shelves of cash and they're stuffing it into their pockets until they can hold no more while duping the poor people of this country into thinking they are a government with only the peoples interest at heart - TS has the biggest pockets

It's hardly surprising that PTP/red-shirt supporters seem to think that 'democracy' will magically sort itself out eventually. Well we saw how it evolved in Singapore & Thaksin is a long-time admirer of Lee Kwan Yu.

The problem here is that real democracy has never taken hold & the present government (& the red-shirt leaders & too many of their supporters on this forum) views 'winning' a vote is the be all & end all of democracy. In another thread we have the government using the BIB as another arm (again defended by the acolytes).

Democratically speaking, the country is going backwards. It's going back to the early Thaksin years of anyone who opposes the government is physically or legally attacked with the police force supporting (& sometimes joining) the attackers.

The country is slowly moving towards either a failed state or a dictatorship. There is no real preventative or curative medicine other than (unfortunately) a coup. It doesn't really solve the problem but it does put a stop to anarchy or dictatorship being reached.

Some off topic posts have been removed.

It's hardly surprising that PTP/red-shirt supporters seem to think that 'democracy' will magically sort itself out eventually. Well we saw how it evolved in Singapore & Thaksin is a long-time admirer of Lee Kwan Yu.

The problem here is that real democracy has never taken hold & the present government (& the red-shirt leaders & too many of their supporters on this forum) views 'winning' a vote is the be all & end all of democracy. In another thread we have the government using the BIB as another arm (again defended by the acolytes).

Democratically speaking, the country is going backwards. It's going back to the early Thaksin years of anyone who opposes the government is physically or legally attacked with the police force supporting (& sometimes joining) the attackers.

The country is slowly moving towards either a failed state or a dictatorship. There is no real preventative or curative medicine other than (unfortunately) a coup. It doesn't really solve the problem but it does put a stop to anarchy or dictatorship being reached.

Hear what you are saying.

Trouble is though KhunKen, the problems that you outline, in my belief, go back way further than Thaksin. That makes it more compounded in that over the longer time there has been minimal progression.

My mental picture is of a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean with a hole in it, and for many years, despite all of the bailing out of water, there still is not much freeboard.

Hiding behind the word 'democracy' to justify grand theft on unimaginable scales, it is clear the roots of corruption are so deep seated, these screamingly obvious fiscal failures are propagated without any fear of reprisal or prosecution by Yingluck and the Shinanwatra clan who simply have the country in a strangle hold whilst milking the coffers dry. This rally may go a long way towards their overthrow, if not by election, then by a coup.

I hope you are right!!!

Maybe 1200 people there tomorrow............and an old man with a pipe.

I think it is very deluded to think that another military coup will help Thailand, however you are entitled to your opinion.

I also think that another coup is a "racing certainty" but the timing depends on how good the Drs are.

Whatever and whenever it will not resolve the deepening divisions in the country.

Yingluck brings at least the veneer of stability, AV only heightens the divisions.

when it becomes evident just how much money these people have pocketed from the tax payer only then will the people realise what a horendous error they made voting this crowd into office and also the real state of the economy and the debt they have run up, by then it will be too late, inflation will be out of control and unempoyment will be huge, the country will be in ruins

I love it when all the expats rant in favor of a military coup in Thailand - something unthinkable and never happens in their home countries. Such hypocrits!

yes but I would also prefer a military coup in some western country. Actually I think it would be the duty of the military if the government wants to start a war.

Which western country comes to mind? Militaries fight wars, and should stick to that.

in a country where the laws of the land, constitution, charter, courts, police etc fail to stamp out corruption then the military is there to pull it all back into line, I'm amazed this debacle has been allowed to continue for so long, as I said on another thread - in my minds eye I see hundreds of reds and PT Mp's in a bank vault surrounded with shelves of cash and they're stuffing it into their pockets until they can hold no more while duping the poor people of this country into thinking they are a government with only the peoples interest at heart - TS has the biggest pockets

This is utter nonsense. You can't prove any of this. Do you have one shred of a fact or actual evidence? Utter nonsense.

Anyone know what the test is to become chief of intelligence?

If the applicant cant put the square peg into the square hole the first time they pass.

when it becomes evident just how much money these people have pocketed from the tax payer only then will the people realise what a horendous error they made voting this crowd into office and also the real state of the economy and the debt they have run up, by then it will be too late, inflation will be out of control and unempoyment will be huge, the country will be in ruins

You're right.

Poy will be inflated and unemployed and the economy ruined.

"unempoyment" everywhere.

Meanwhile the major Thai corporations grow and grow and the economy grows, as the minimum wage increases spending power, Foreign investment grows, BOI approvals increase,foreign investment increases ( despite the flood etc ), Social security gets better and Yinglucks approval ratings fail to go down and here on TV it's a scenario of total economic doom.

when it becomes evident just how much money these people have pocketed from the tax payer only then will the people realise what a horendous error they made voting this crowd into office and also the real state of the economy and the debt they have run up, by then it will be too late, inflation will be out of control and unempoyment will be huge, the country will be in ruins

You're right.

Poy will be inflated and unemployed and the economy ruined.

"unempoyment" everywhere.

Meanwhile the major Thai corporations grow and grow and the economy grows, as the minimum wage increases spending power, Foreign investment grows, BOI approvals increase,foreign investment increases ( despite the flood etc ), Social security gets better and Yinglucks approval ratings fail to go down and here on TV it's a scenario of total economic doom.

I've missed the government statements on their first year performance, but I guess your post brings me up-to-date

Mind you, a (larger?) part of GDP growth seems to have been effected by the enormous megaprojects for which the government had to borrow a wee bit. Also various measurements seem to have compensated the minimum wage increase (for seven provinces to 300, 39% for others) by effecting sufficient price increases. Healthcare just got a flat rate of 30 Baht and without proper financing staff moves to private hospitals. Suggestions are made to increase taxes to pay for a few goodies.

Well, at least with THB 280++ billion spent on rice price pledging all farmers must be rich now

So, back to the OP, a protest in a confined area. A bit of an improvement over the red-shirt 'rally' today which caused some traffic mayhem Still with 1000's of police to keep an eye on a few hundred protesters (my guesstimate) the police may cause some parking problems on their own

in a country where the laws of the land, constitution, charter, courts, police etc fail to stamp out corruption then the military is there to pull it all back into line, I'm amazed this debacle has been allowed to continue for so long, as I said on another thread - in my minds eye I see hundreds of reds and PT Mp's in a bank vault surrounded with shelves of cash and they're stuffing it into their pockets until they can hold no more while duping the poor people of this country into thinking they are a government with only the peoples interest at heart - TS has the biggest pockets

This is utter nonsense. You can't prove any of this. Do you have one shred of a fact or actual evidence? Utter nonsense.

Smedly said "in my minds eye I see...". It's an opinion, not a statement of facts. No evidence required for an opinion.

Actually, I don't adhere to the whole post but my perception about how this gvt is managing the country behind the curtains is entirely similar.

I love it when all the expats rant in favor of a military coup in Thailand - something unthinkable and never happens in their home countries. Such hypocrits!

I suggest you be a bit more cautious with the use of "all".

I love it when all the expats rant in favor of a military coup in Thailand - something unthinkable and never happens in their home countries. Such hypocrits!

I suggest you be a bit more cautious with the use of "all".

Indeed a global slur against all expats here is not with in the rules of TVF.