Accepting The Farang Status, And The Implications

[kevvy]

just like in Australia we call them Asians until we get to know them ...no different

[NeverSure]

Good wine, good food and long holidays - who wouldn't want to be French?

The brave soldiers such as the Brits and the US troops who liberated their azzes after they threw up the white flag for Hitler about 4 years before the battle of Normandy. The widows of the 35,000 allied troops who are buried in cemetaries in France for that reason. The sons, daughters and grandchildren of those troops.

To this day those cemetaries are maintained by allied countries at allied expense and that includes lawn mowing, shrub trimming and showing loved ones where actual graves are.

My father is 95, is alive and well, and is a veteran of Normandy, and the fight through France into Belgium. He got a purple heart and a bronze star. Ask him. He says that when they crossed from France into Belgium the offered their left over French money to some young ladies who were waving to them along side the road. According to dad, it's a true story that those girls took that French money and wiped their butts with it and threw it onto the ground.

[NeverSure]

just like in Australia we call them Asians until we get to know them ...no different

That's true anywhere I've been. There can be a Chinatown in any major city if the Chinese gather there, decorate like China, speak Chinese and cook Chinese food. If they assimilate, learn the language, learn the customs and move among the natives, they will then be called by their real name and treated with equality. It isn't rocket science.

[StreetCowboy]

just like in Australia we call them Asians until we get to know them ...no different

That's true anywhere I've been. There can be a Chinatown in any major city if the Chinese gather there, decorate like China, speak Chinese and cook Chinese food. If they assimilate, learn the language, learn the customs and move among the natives, they will then be called by their real name and treated with equality. It isn't rocket science.

I think what people are complaining about is that even within their family, they are still referred to as "the farang". I don't refer to my cousin as "the Paki", nor his wife as "the whateverhernationalityis".

Though having said that, at school our winger was nicknamed Ching by nature of his slanty eyes and yellowish skin. Or perhaps it was because his parents ran the Chinese restaurant and his race was irrelevant; I don't know, its a long time ago.

SC

[pbeieio]

I am unsure who is the most ignorant?

The Thai's who refer to us as it, or westerners who copy them.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I agree in the case of those (I'd like to be) close to me, I'd prefer to have them use my name. However I think most of the time it's just a cultural-linguistic pattern difference, rarely indicating lack of respect.

But then who are we to demand respect? Perhaps those who know us have good reason to disrespect us? If you really want respect then you need to figure out what it is that the people you want it from actually see as respectable, and then comply with those expectations in order to earn it.

Seen in those terms, do you really want to work so hard just to earn the respect of those people? In effect isn't that giving them an inappropriate degree of power over your behavior?

More productive IMO to just get on with what you want to get done and stop worrying about what others think about you.

Maybe it would be more useful to examine your need for respect - why do you even want it? Perhaps over-sensitivity in that regard is an indication of a lack of self-respect.

Reverend Johnny, signing off 8-)

Edited November 1, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[chiangmaikelly]

I am unsure who is the most ignorant?

The Thai's who refer to us as it, or westerners who copy them.

I am unsure who is the most ignorant?

The Thai's who refer to us as it, or westerners who copy them.

You are close. It's the people who think it is an insult.

[NeverSure]

You guys know a LOT more than I do. My experience is limited to about 2 3 month stays, and internet communication. I missed it if farang was an insult. Many farangs from many countries and few speak the language. I did feel like a stranger and newcomer but I never felt hated. Ripped off a couple times, yes, LOL. I know about "the farang price."

Maybe I'm just not any good at picking up on the little things when I don't know the culture or the language. Maybe they were shining me on. I just never really felt as if someone disliked me just for being farang. I sure got called farang a lot, and maybe I owe some people a punch in the nose, LOL.

I really don't know.

[richard10365]

This is a strange topic. I'm male, so should I get upset if I am referred to as a man and not my name? What if they say white man? Should that upset me? What about American? Maybe I should get mad at that too and tell them please don't call me an American! My name is Richard10365.

I suppose I have other things in my life that are more important than this. Like....hmmm...bacon or sausage for breakfast....or....what color towel should I hang in my bathroom? Now these are real problems. Maybe I should start a thread on ThaiVisa and see if I can get help with that bacon and sausage dilemma.

Weekends almost here. Have a great weekend everyone!!!!

[inthepink]

Its humourous how some on here are upset with the name 'falang' and yet refer to the people they are with as thai's...thai wife, thai gf etc.etc

Thai is a nationality, yes? What nationality is f-rang?

Yes but why do such people feel the need to label their partner in this manner? Why not just say, "my wife" or my gf" etcetera? It shows that they are always thinking of the difference between their own race / nationality and that of the Thai person they are with.

However, if family members are referring to posters as "the farang", I would have to agree that this is totally unacceptable and I find it very surprising.

Edited November 1, 2012 by inthepink

[BigJohnnyBKK]

@NeverSure - don't worry trust your instincts if you aren't a paranoid oversensitive git you'll be able judge accurately yourself what people think of you by their manner, tone, body language etc. Just like "white man" or "American" of course any grouping term like this can be meant in a derogatory manner but that is made clear from the tone. The word itself as commonly used in the Thai language is not in anyway disparaging. People that live in places where the scam-the-farang attitude is common will encounter expressions of disdain from people when they're not shelling out the cash fast enough, because they've been trained by all the suckers out there to consider that the norm, expressions like "kee neaow" and "farang kee nok" are specifically used to try to shame you into being more "generous" to the poor suffering Thai who's working at extracting as much cash from you as quickly as possible.

And on the other end, more old-fashioned traditional conservative Thais, if you are a person who is totally focused on hedonism, especially sex, alcohol and other activities seen as more animal than human by their cultural programming, they will perhaps have a default view of farang due to their (pretty accurate) perception based on the behavior that they see.

WRT to using the classifier word rather than the formal name, you will by now have noticed that this is a linguistic aspect of Thai different from our own. If you gently and politely remind the people that you know that you'd rather be called by your name, they will usually try to remember to do so.

Thais are also much more straight-spoken about calling people fat or old or crippled, and personally I find it refreshing once I set my ego aside. During the ceremonial betrothal ceremony and negotiation for sin sot with a group of female elders (mostly ancient!) with one of my teeraks in years past, I was amazed to hear them interrogating her about the size of my dick and what kind of kinky stuff I'm up to in the sack. I successfully pretended not to understand, but it was me who was embarrassed not them.

Sure I personally think being openly racist in public conversation isn't cool, but I've learned to keep my mouth shut about it here, that's the way they are and it's impolite as a guest here IMO to try to be so arrogant as to try to correct all the minor injustices around us all the time. Of course if it's within my power and an appropriate context to actually prevent a real-life injustice (not just correcting speech patterns) then I will do so.

And finally many people may be mistaken that when conversation around you naturally turns to the cultural habits and preferences of this bizarre alien creature called farang that they suddenly find in their midst, you may think they're talking about you in person, when they are just discussing farang in general.

All in all, live and let live and you'll have a much more pleasant stay in the LoS.

[ayayay]

I don't accept the "farang status" especially with luk krueng children.

For a Thai to refer to all foreigners as farang once they know them is ignorant and racist.

As soon as your extended family talk to other people about you, they will often refer to you as farang. Kinda sad, but true.

Maybe the people who are calling the foreigners "farangs" ARE uneducated, ignorant, racist, peasants?

Education, education, education is the way forward.

No, this word is used in all levels of thai society. After all, why not, considering even foreigners like to refer to themselves as farang? And that is where I think we are doing wrong by encouraging the use of this word by calling ourselves farang,

Whenever i see an oportunity to correct an ignoranti i do so and so should you!

I totally agree

[ayayay]

This is a strange topic. I'm male, so should I get upset if I am referred to as a man and not my name?

You should reflect on possible problems when people you are close to, friends and family still refer to you as "white person", instead of your name, as soon as they talk to someone you do not know, or sometimes when you are not present.

[ayayay]

I am unsure who is the most ignorant?

The Thai's who refer to us as it, or westerners who copy them.

White skinned Westerners who refer to themselves as farang, by far.

[StreetCowboy]

...

Whenever i see an oportunity to correct an ignoranti i do so and so should you!

ignoramus. opportunity.

As requested. I'd have put a comma after the 'and', but I'm not sure if that would be grammatically correct.

SC

[chiangmaikelly]

This is a strange topic. I'm male, so should I get upset if I am referred to as a man and not my name?

You should reflect on possible problems when people you are close to, friends and family still refer to you as "white person", instead of your name, as soon as they talk to someone you do not know, or sometimes when you are not present.

No one close to me personal or business refers to me any other way but by name or my official title. I can't imagine anyone doing this to anyone except a total yaya.

[maxme]

Please continue, this is getting interesting...

[SteeleJoe]

I think you will find speaking Thai will do more for humanizing you than insisting they dont call you Farang. To paraphrase, who is easier to dehumanize, the guy who makes loud incoherent noises or someone you can actually speak with and understand?

Yeah but the downside is understanding what people are saying who don't know you understand ...

Not sure I can be bothered to go through the whole "Farang" issue again. Done it so many times over the last 3 decades. Suffice it to say for reasons all the way from etymological, historical, (it's not from "French" or "France", rather those words have a common and older antecedent) and anecdotal etc I am adamant that it's entirely down to context.

But this thing about understanding Thai and the supposed downside to it; I personally have only heard people who don't speak Thai make that assumption and I've not heard that as a typical complaint from those who do. I've been fluent for circa 30 years and much of that as a resident here and I can swear that it's been exceedingly rare (less than a dozen times over all the years?) that I've heard unprovoked negative comments about me or any foreigner(s). Is understanding them the problem -- personally I'd much rather know if people are talking sh*t about me (or someone who shared my ethnicity because of that ethnicity). And it's not as if I've never heard people say stuff I don't like in English -- we all seem to survive that all right.

The positives outweigh any negatives by about 98%. It goes far, far beyond just making things more convenient. It very often has, I am absolutely convinced, a huge impact on how you are perceived and treated. And the insight it allows one on Thais and their culture and society is equally profound in its extent and effect.

Truly one of the smartest things I ever did (pretty much on a whim) was to start learning Thai after about a week here and to keep practicing when I left by seeking out the Thai community abroad (who warmly received me because of my language skills and cultural awareness -- two things that are intertwined). If someone doesn't want to learn it for whatever reason, fine. But to say it is somehow a negative is complete b*ll*cks and an excuse that illustrates certain things about the person who'd use it.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Edited November 1, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

Anyone whose family or friends typically refer to them as Farang (rather than Pi ____, Khun ____, my brother in law etc)...well, they've made some questionable choices (that's the most diplomatic way I can put it).

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[DLock]

i have a thai friend who just called her child google.

now in the future when he googles his own name, will he mistakenly believe he is the holder of all knowledge, and get a god complex.

Just wait till he tries to by the domain of his own name.

[metisdead]

A rather nasty misogyinistic post has been removed as well as the replies.

[Neeranam]

I am unsure who is the most ignorant?

The Thai's who refer to us as it, or westerners who copy them.

White skinned Westerners who refer to themselves as farang, by far.

Hear Here Hee

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Hear Here Hee

OK, I'll start using "honky", that make you feel better?

[SteeleJoe]

Hear Here Hee

OK, I'll start using "honky", that make you feel better?

As long as you don't use "Foreign person of European ancestry" -- which going by their objection to "Farang", is what some people really don't want.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Edited November 1, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[ayayay]

It's the people who think it is an insult.

You are missing the point, and everyone else who thinks this is about being offended, it is not the most important thing, even thought it is true to a certain degree.

Mainly I want to point out, what this means for us, and what will be the results of calling us farang all the time. Read my initial post again.

Edited November 2, 2012 by ayayay

[SteeleJoe]

It's the people who think it is an insult.

You are missing the point, and everyone else who thinks this is about being offended, it is not the most important thing, even thought it is true to a certain degree.

Mainly I want to point out, what this means for us, and what will be the results of calling us farang all the time. Read my initial post again.

Just read it again. It's all very logical and well stated.

But it's all based on a faulty premise.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chiangmaikelly]

It's the people who think it is an insult.

You are missing the point, and everyone else who thinks this is about being offended, it is not the most important thing, even thought it is true to a certain degree.

Mainly I want to point out, what this means for us, and what will be the results of calling us farang all the time. Read my initial post again.

You wrote in the OP, “I am not expecting Thai people to learn this anytime soon, and I often don´t bother to tell them, but at least, I do not call myself farang. It is just plain ignorant.”

The above statement is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. My gosh man look at who agrees with you. If that's not enough there are almost countless posts over the years; not only in this thread to inform you of the errors of your thoughts.

Steele Joe has it right when he writes, "It's all very logical and well stated. But it's all based on a faulty premise."

[ayayay]

You wrote in the OP, “I am not expecting Thai people to learn this anytime soon, and I often don´t bother to tell them, but at least, I do not call myself farang. It is just plain ignorant.”

The above statement is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. My gosh man look at who agrees with you. If that's not enough there are almost countless posts over the years; not only in this thread to inform you of the errors of your thoughts.

Steele Joe has it right when he writes, "It's all very logical and well stated. But it's all based on a faulty premise."

Yes, it is very ignorant to refer to yourself as farang. What are the errors of my thoughts?

That constantly being referred to the "other" or "not the same" will not distant you from thai society? Will not make it easier to get scammed, ripped off, or even killed? Will not make it more difficult to create deep bonds with your extended thai family?

[krisb]

Just plain ignorant you say.......well leave then if it bothers you that much.

Get over it.

[Berkshire]

It's the people who think it is an insult.

You are missing the point, and everyone else who thinks this is about being offended, it is not the most important thing, even thought it is true to a certain degree.

Mainly I want to point out, what this means for us, and what will be the results of calling us farang all the time. Read my initial post again.

Well I took your advice and read the OP again. Man, there are tons of holes in that piece you wrote. Much of it truly defies logic. Let me just point out some of your comments, followed with mine:

[Would you prefer to always be referred to as farang, or would you be preferred to be called by your name by your thai family, close friends and girlfriend?]

I have never been called or referred to as "farang" by any Thai who knows me, especially the GF. If this is happening to you or anyone else out there, I'd say you have some issues. And it ain't about the Thais. I find this truly bizarre if this is happening to anyone out there because I've never seen it. Being called "farang" by a wife or GF? <deleted>?

[Who is the easiest to rip off, kill, scam, or getting close to and tie deep bonds with, a farang/anonymous stranger with no name, or Khun Peter?]

To paraphrase, "Who is the easiest to rip off, kill, scam, or getting close to and tie deep bonds with, a Thai/anonymous stranger with no name, or Khun Nok?" Same same, no? Do you make an attempt to learn every Thai name, or do you refer to those you don't know as Thai? Of course you do (as demonstrated in your piece). Your statement is ridiculous because it has nothing to do with whether farangs are called farang or something else. It's the nature of relationships with strangers vs. people you know. Duh.

[sure, we all have labels for certain group of people, but somewhere that definition of that person will eventually fade away the more you get to know him/her. This is not the case for thais, and that IS a problem for us.]

Not a true statement. If Thais know your name, they will call you by your name. Unless you're some sort of degenerate wacko that they simply want no part of.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Berkshire