Accepting The Farang Status, And The Implications

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Sure I can see lots of scenarios where that would be appropriate.

The cripple may need a restaurant with accessibility for his wheelchair, the Jew may require kosher food, and of course the farang's going to foot the bill.

Personally I think we've gone around and around on this long enough, good luck with your project but I'm happy to continue to refer to myself as the fat old bald poor farang kee nok, I'm not proud. . .

[ayayay]

Sure I can see lots of scenarios where that would be appropriate.

The cripple may need a restaurant with accessibility for his wheelchair, the Jew may require kosher food,.

Well, I thought it was so obvious that I did not need to mention that. But obviously it wasn´t, so here we go again.

What I mean is, that the crippled would not refer to himself as crippled if not needed. He would most likely rather be identified as a human first and foremost.

Personally I think we've gone around and around on this long enough, good luck with your project but I'm happy to continue to refer to myself as the fat old bald poor farang kee nok, I'm not proud. . .

Of course you should be proud of who you are, no matter if you have white or dark skin, however, that is not what this thread is all about.

You still have not really understood what its all about.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Personally I think we've gone around and around on this long enough, good luck with your project

[ayayay]

I few weeks back, I saw a guy who crashed his motorcycle into the car in front of him, this was on Sukhumvit, on the lower number sois, luckily, he did not drive fast, so he just fell down from his motorcycle, but the impact was enough to create a crashing sound, causing the nearby people turning their heads to see what had happened. I just hear a lot of people saying "farang, blah blah", "farang blah blah", "blah blah farang".

Even though I don´t think it is such big deal, it really reminds me how important it is to see us as "others". Even from my country, who consists of mainly white people, if we see a guy falling off his motorcycle, we would not say, "look, negro fell down on the motorcycle", "look, asian crashed into a wall", sure, if we would report it to someone else later, we might add his skin color, as to, add details to the story, but a lot of times that would not even be the case.

But the skin color would certainly not be the first thing most of us would think about, when seeing the actual accident.

Yes, I think it creates an unnecessary distance from us and the thais. And to support that distance, buy refer to ourselves as that, is for the most part, not to our advantage in the long run, if we are here to create deep bonds with our thai girlfriends, wifes, or famliies,

we are also more likely to get ripped off, getting scammed, or even killed for these same reasons, even if you do not see the connection.

[ayayay]

Personally I think we've gone around and around on this long enough, good luck with your project

Thank you, just want to enlighten people about it, cause most people do not see these connections at all.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

even if you do not see the connection.

I have understood your point from the beginning but I disagree. And even if I agreed with the theory, I think the way Thais see us honkies behaving has a much greater impact than any change in semantics could ever do.

And even if I thought getting the honkies to stop using the F-word would make a difference, I don't think it would be possible to bring about that change, even if you made it illegal.

I'm really really going to try to stop now.

Edited November 7, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[ayayay]

even if you do not see the connection.

I have understood your point from the beginning but I disagree. And even if I agreed with the theory, I think the way Thais see us honkies behaving has a much greater impact than any change in semantics could ever do.

And even if I thought getting the honkies to stop using the F-word would make a difference, I don't think it would be possible to bring about that change, even if you made it illegal.

I do not hope for a change in the near future, I do wish, however, to raise the awareness of the potential problems that might be a result of the way we support the ideas, helt by the thais, that we are indeed farang/stranger/white skin/ OTHER.

It is not seldom you see people on here that refer to themselves farang, and the next thing they will post about how they got ripped off, and complains about how they cannot understand the thai wife could have been so cruel to him, almost as if she did not treat him as a human being.

I have seen it over and over again, and you might think it is far fetched to say it has something to do with the fact that we like to refer to ourselves as the other/foreigner/stranger/farang even witihin our family, even after several years.

To me though, it is pretty obvious, that in most cases, it has to do with just that.

That they view us as an alien, not part of the family, so it is ok to rip us off.

Edited November 7, 2012 by ayayay

[chiangmaikelly]

even if you do not see the connection.

I have understood your point from the beginning but I disagree. And even if I agreed with the theory, I think the way Thais see us honkies behaving has a much greater impact than any change in semantics could ever do.

And even if I thought getting the honkies to stop using the F-word would make a difference, I don't think it would be possible to bring about that change, even if you made it illegal.

I do not hope for a change in the near future, I do wish, however, to raise the awareness of the potential problems that might be a result of the way we are viewed by thais.

It is not seldom you see people on here that refer to themselves farang, and the next thing they will post about how they got ripped off, and complains about how they cannot understand the thai wife could have been so cruel to him, almost as if she did not treat him as a human being.

I have seen it over and over again, and you might think it is far fetched to say it has something to do with the fact that we all like to refer to ourselves as the other/foreigner/stranger/farang witihin our family, even after several years.

To me though, it is pretty obvious, that in most cases, it has to do with just that.

That they view us as an alien, not part of the family, so it is ok to rip us off.

I would have no problems if you spoke for yourself. I can believe this happens to you. But it does not happen to me. No one calls me Farang except in situations where it is appropriate. So when you write about it speak for yourself. Like, "I wont accept my farang status"

[ayayay]

I would have no problems if you spoke for yourself. I can believe this happens to you. But it does not happen to me. No one calls me Farang except in situations where it is appropriate.

Well, as I said before, I think it makes sense to point it out to people who does not understand, and have never thought about it.

And judging from the many misunderstandings in this thread about what I really want to address, I think my observation is correct, there are in fact, many of us, who never thought about it in the first place.

Edited November 7, 2012 by ayayay

[ayayay]

Let me just point out some of your comments, followed with mine:

"Would you prefer to always be referred to as farang, or would you be preferred to be called by your name by your thai family, close friends and girlfriend?"

I have never been called or referred to as "farang" by any Thai who knows me, especially the GF.

If this is happening to you or anyone else out there, I'd say you have some issues. And it ain't about the Thais. I find this truly bizarre if this is happening to anyone out there because I've never seen it. Being called "farang" by a wife or GF? <deleted>?

When you are not there, they will refer to you as farang, usually not in your face.

"Who is the easiest to rip off, kill, scam, or getting close to and tie deep bonds with, a farang/anonymous stranger with no name, or Khun Peter?"

To paraphrase, "Who is the easiest to rip off, kill, scam, or getting close to and tie deep bonds with, a Thai/anonymous stranger with no name, or Khun Nok?" Same same, no? Do you make an attempt to learn every Thai name,

No, but I call my wife Lek, (if I had a wife and her name was Lek), I would NOT call her "Lek she is Dark skin", or "Dark Skin", Duh

"Sure, we all have labels for certain group of people, but somewhere that definition of that person will eventually fade away the more you get to know him/her. This is not the case for thais, and that IS a problem for us."

Not a true statement. If Thais know your name, they will call you by your name. Unless you're some sort of degenerate wacko that they simply want no part of.

Yes, to your face, but not when they refer to you when you are not there.

You are still very much farang rather than simply Peter, Andrew, or July

[chiangmaikelly]

Let me just point out some of your comments, followed with mine:

"Would you prefer to always be referred to as farang, or would you be preferred to be called by your name by your thai family, close friends and girlfriend?"

I have never been called or referred to as "farang" by any Thai who knows me, especially the GF.

If this is happening to you or anyone else out there, I'd say you have some issues. And it ain't about the Thais. I find this truly bizarre if this is happening to anyone out there because I've never seen it. Being called "farang" by a wife or GF? <deleted>?

When you are not there, they will refer to you as farang, usually not in your face.

"Who is the easiest to rip off, kill, scam, or getting close to and tie deep bonds with, a farang/anonymous stranger with no name, or Khun Peter?"

To paraphrase, "Who is the easiest to rip off, kill, scam, or getting close to and tie deep bonds with, a Thai/anonymous stranger with no name, or Khun Nok?" Same same, no? Do you make an attempt to learn every Thai name,

No, but I call my wife Lek, (if I had a wife and her name was Lek), I would NOT call her "Lek she is Dark skin", or "Dark Skin", Duh

"Sure, we all have labels for certain group of people, but somewhere that definition of that person will eventually fade away the more you get to know him/her. This is not the case for thais, and that IS a problem for us."

Not a true statement. If Thais know your name, they will call you by your name. Unless you're some sort of degenerate wacko that they simply want no part of.

Yes, to your face, but not when they refer to you when you are not there.

You are still very much farang rather than simply Peter, Andrew, or July

How do you know they call you Farang if you are not there?

[ayayay]

Yes, to your face, but not when they refer to you when you are not there.

You are still very much farang rather than simply Peter, Andrew, or July

How do you know they call you Farang if you are not there?

During my years, I have over heard a lot of discussions when other thai people talk about farangs, sometimes farang, and sometimes about farangs that are close to them, such as family members. And yes, I speak thai.

[chiangmaikelly]

Yes, to your face, but not when they refer to you when you are not there.

You are still very much farang rather than simply Peter, Andrew, or July

How do you know they call you Farang if you are not there?

During my years, I have over heard a lot of discussions when other thai people talk about farangs, sometimes farang, and sometimes about farangs that are close to them, such as family members. And yes, I speak thai.

I didn't say you could not speak Thai. You said they called you Farang when you were not there. If you were not there how did you know?

[MacChine]

I read the rules about engaging in personal conflict so I won't answer a post made earlier but when personal attacks begin, I know my argument is sound- but you have no answer.

Ay Ay Ay I understand exactly your point. And seems, as evidenced by the length of the thread many many are interested in this discussion , no matter how many others bemoan or attempt to belittle you for posting it, and get away with personal aggression.

I think a lot of the resistance is due to labeling it as a derogatory term. It is but a racist label, to judge that is subjective. To Thais, it isn't wrong.

Well yes, all nations suffer from racism, but this is caste... deeper.

Yes, one needs a term to define a party; Sally, she's the black gal in Sam's team. "

Would I ever say within her hearing, " Hey, the black gal is here "

Would I turn to my sister and ask to introduce the black ?

I wuld not address a customer in a jewelry shop to my manager ,

"Hey, the black wants to make a deal."

See, it isn' that it's meant to be derogatory in most intances, it's slang. Rude not used in newpapers , as it rude. But it is derogatory as it IS a racial term. And the pronoun argument find very ineresting same as dog and object wheras Chines and other are human pronoun )

No, I'll never use the term to describe myself, and my Thai workers do not to use the term to refer to customers in their presense at least I hope. I've heard many Thais agree it is very rude.

Yes, the country is filled with ignorant, uneducated people- quite deliberately, too.

Will it ever change ? Well, as quasi- immigrants we can effect change and we are.

Thanks for posting this thread and putting up with the anti-discourse types.

Sort of like the word "Negro" or "cripple", the fact that it's become perceived as disparaging is a result of the meaning's object being looked down upon, so the PC crowd tries to remedy that with "black" and "disabled", which then has to become "African-American" and "special needs". Or someone from Germany has to walk on eggshells talking about his racist ancestors with his schoolmates in New York, at least the Jews haven't campaigned to have their designator changed.

Stand up and be proud this is what we are (all together now) "Farang!"

So if you were crippled, or was a Jew, you would like your wife to point that out to her freind as soon as you and your wife where going out?

"we are are going out, me and my husband, he is crippled"

"we are going out, me and my husband, he is a Jew"

"we are going out, me and my husband, he is white skinned/farang"

Or would you expect her to be a little more familiar with you after 10 years of marriage, to the point were she sees you as a person rather than a white skinned person who happnes to be married to me"

If you are married to a cripple, you dont mentionen that to everyone, after a while it is not important, because you will see beyond that she is crippled.

A dark skinned person would not walk around and call himself darkskin, for example, can a dark skinned person have any food to eat around sukhumvit.

I, a dark skin, would like to rent an apartment near suhkumvit area, are there any good places for a dark skin to hang out?

Edited November 9, 2012 by MacChine

[chiangmaikelly]

I read the rules about engaging in personal conflict so I won't answer a post made earlier but when personal attacks begin, I know my argument is sound- but you have no answer.

Ay Ay Ay I understand exactly your point. And seems, as evidenced by the length of the thread many many are interested in this discussion , no matter how many others bemoan or attempt to belittle you for posting it, and get away with personal aggression.

I think a lot of the resistance is due to labeling it as a derogatory term. It is but a racist label, to judge that is subjective. To Thais, it isn't wrong.

Well yes, all nations suffer from racism, but this is caste... deeper.

Yes, one needs a term to define a party; Sally, she's the black gal in Sam's team. "

Would I ever say within her hearing, " Hey, the black gal is here "

Would I turn to my sister and ask to introduce the black ?

I wuld not address a customer in a jewelry shop to my manager ,

"Hey, the black wants to make a deal."

See, it isn' that it's meant to be derogatory in most intances, it's slang. Rude not used in newpapers , as it rude. But it is derogatory as it IS a racial term. And the pronoun argument find very ineresting same as dog and object wheras Chines and other are human pronoun )

No, I'll never use the term to describe myself, and my Thai workers do not to use the term to refer to customers in their presense at least I hope. I've heard many Thais agree it is very rude.

Yes, the country is filled with ignorant, uneducated people- quite deliberately, too.

Will it ever change ? Well, as quasi- immigrants we can effect change and we are.

Thanks for posting this thread and putting up with the anti-discourse types.

Sort of like the word "Negro" or "cripple", the fact that it's become perceived as disparaging is a result of the meaning's object being looked down upon, so the PC crowd tries to remedy that with "black" and "disabled", which then has to become "African-American" and "special needs". Or someone from Germany has to walk on eggshells talking about his racist ancestors with his schoolmates in New York, at least the Jews haven't campaigned to have their designator changed.

Stand up and be proud this is what we are (all together now) "Farang!"

So if you were crippled, or was a Jew, you would like your wife to point that out to her freind as soon as you and your wife where going out?

"we are are going out, me and my husband, he is crippled"

"we are going out, me and my husband, he is a Jew"

"we are going out, me and my husband, he is white skinned/farang"

Or would you expect her to be a little more familiar with you after 10 years of marriage, to the point were she sees you as a person rather than a white skinned person who happnes to be married to me"

If you are married to a cripple, you dont mentionen that to everyone, after a while it is not important, because you will see beyond that she is crippled.

A dark skinned person would not walk around and call himself darkskin, for example, can a dark skinned person have any food to eat around sukhumvit.

I, a dark skin, would like to rent an apartment near suhkumvit area, are there any good places for a dark skin to hang out?

In reading Thai Visa for 10 years I've read at least 50 Farang good or bad topics. Always the same almost without exception, short timers get offended - long timers don't care.

[ayayay]

In reading Thai Visa for 10 years I've read at least 50 Farang good or bad topics. Always the same almost without exception, short timers get offended - long timers don't care.

I have read a few, and it has never been addressed in the way I address it in this thread. So no, not at all the same.

The not so intelligent will ignore it, and then one day they come and cry here on thaivisa cause they got badly ripped off by their thai wife, meanwhile they insisted on referring to themselves as the other/foreigner/not same as the rest of the family, go figure.

The intelligent ones will at least give it a thought.

[ayayay]

I read the rules about engaging in personal conflict so I won't answer a post made earlier but when personal attacks begin, I know my argument is sound- but you have no answer.

Ay Ay Ay I understand exactly your point. And seems, as evidenced by the length of the thread many many are interested in this discussion , no matter how many others bemoan or attempt to belittle you for posting it, and get away with personal aggression.

I think a lot of the resistance is due to labeling it as a derogatory term. It is but a racist label, to judge that is subjective. To Thais, it isn't wrong.

Well yes, all nations suffer from racism, but this is caste... deeper.

Yes, one needs a term to define a party; Sally, she's the black gal in Sam's team. "

Would I ever say within her hearing, " Hey, the black gal is here "

Would I turn to my sister and ask to introduce the black ?

I wuld not address a customer in a jewelry shop to my manager ,

"Hey, the black wants to make a deal."

See, it isn' that it's meant to be derogatory in most intances, it's slang. Rude not used in newpapers , as it rude. But it is derogatory as it IS a racial term. And the pronoun argument find very ineresting same as dog and object wheras Chines and other are human pronoun )

No, I'll never use the term to describe myself, and my Thai workers do not to use the term to refer to customers in their presense at least I hope. I've heard many Thais agree it is very rude.

Yes, the country is filled with ignorant, uneducated people- quite deliberately, too.

Will it ever change ? Well, as quasi- immigrants we can effect change and we are.

Thanks for posting this thread and putting up with the anti-discourse types.

Thanks man!

[crazygreg44]

I am a Farang, and my Thai family calls me GREG all the time, which is an abbreviation of my real name. I must belong to a privileged class of Farangs in Thailand, I believe, after reading the post.

Uncounted times, i introduced myself as Khun Greg to newly met Thais, and they adressed me by this name from there on. It seems that when you make all efforts to act and behave like a Farang, Thais might be tempted to classify as a good example of this species.

[chiangmaikelly]

In reading Thai Visa for 10 years I've read at least 50 Farang good or bad topics. Always the same almost without exception, short timers get offended - long timers don't care.

I have read a few, and it has never been addressed in the way I address it in this thread. So no, not at all the same.

The not so intelligent will ignore it, and then one day they come and cry here on thaivisa cause they got badly ripped off by their thai wife, meanwhile they insisted on referring to themselves as the other/foreigner/not same as the rest of the family, go figure.

The intelligent ones will at least give it a thought.

At least you are consistent. You said in the OP that anyone who disagreed with you was "just plain ignorant."

[cooked]

A never ending story. 'Somewhere in Isaan' today I heard today three times the word Farang as I passed. According to my wife one group or women were wondering how they can get 'one of those', and the others remarks were in Home Mart and Big C made by people working there, sort of 'Farang fussy' kind of remark. Nobody that knows me in the village calls me Farang, so that means most of the village calls me by name.

What does disturb me a little is the 'you!' when being addressed, but then again this is just a reaction learnt in Europe, I can live with it. The Thai is doing his best to communicate.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

What does disturb me a little is the 'you!' when being addressed, but then again this is just a reaction learnt in Europe, I can live with it. The Thai is doing his best to communicate.

Absolutely, since the Thais have so many different "you" words with huge differences in connotations of respect (think French tu/vous German du/ihr/Sie but cubed), you can safely assume a stranger using that to try to get your attention is doing their best to be respectful.

"Excuse me sir" is unfortunately not taught along with their ABCs. . .

[MacChine]

So at what point am I a long termer, past 5 , 10 ?

Actually when I first arrived I didn't mind it, until it became clear -took about two months to realize the term is objectifying racial slang used by an ignorant peasant mindset

As for the OP ; Those who objectify themselves are probably not real deep thinkers, maybe lucky for them. Ignorance is bliss.

In reading Thai Visa for 10 years I've read at least 50 Farang good or bad topics. Always the same almost without exception, short timers get offended - long timers don't care.

Edited November 10, 2012 by MacChine

[bermondburi]

It's just that the majority of foreigners from the countries mentioned above happen to be white

i have seen white paper, white paint, white rabbits, white mice, white birds and a zillion white objects. but i have never seen a white person.

not been to Scotland then ?

they do have white Scots over there?

and all shades between white and blue.

[MacChine]

What does disturb me a little is the 'you!' when being addressed, but then again this is just a reaction learnt in Europe, I can live with it. The Thai is doing his best to communicate.

The respectful term when addressing strangers is Kuhn, not farang, And I am never addressed as farang in one on one it is a term used to ID objectifiy and " other " me and is used to refer to me even in my presense, that's the really, really rude part.

Nope, can't say I find Thais especially polite. In fact, I think the culture's propensity for two faced smiles has a lot of people fooled.

Edited November 10, 2012 by MacChine

[StreetCowboy]

...

not been to Scotland then ?

they do have white Scots over there?

and all shades between white and blue.

And green, but we shouldn't let our petty prejudices cloud a discussion on racism.

SC

[TommoPhysicist]

I am a Farang, and my Thai family calls me GREG all the time, which is an abbreviation of my real name. I must belong to a privileged class of Farangs in Thailand, I believe, after reading the post.

Uncounted times, i introduced myself as Khun Greg to newly met Thais, and they adressed me by this name from there on. It seems that when you make all efforts to act and behave like a Farang, Thais might be tempted to classify as a good example of this species.

I don't know any Thais that can say Greg .........it would come out as Gek, Glek,Grek, Galek or Garek most of the time.

Edited November 10, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[bermondburi]

Assumptions are dangerous when learning a language. Even after learning for 10 years I made some silly assumptions. Maybe now I'm assuming wrongly.

Especially when we're constantly being told how wonderful our Thai is, and then realize they're just being polite.

Get out where people aren't used to the way we mangle it and talk to strangers, we have to try four times to try to be understood with the most basic stuff.

Like we can understand Thainglish much more easily than newcomers, our ear's just tuned to their patterns.

speak for yourself BJ

[bermondburi]

Yes, to your face, but not when they refer to you when you are not there.

You are still very much farang rather than simply Peter, Andrew, or July

How do you know they call you Farang if you are not there?

During my years, I have over heard a lot of discussions when other thai people talk about farangs, sometimes farang, and sometimes about farangs that are close to them, such as family members. And yes, I speak thai.

But there is a difference between saying ' ferrang go to the market ' and ' Jon has gone to the market to buy some nice steak , he is a ferang and that is what ferang like to eat '

I often wonder how much people really understand of conversations around them . Especially when a lot of foreign guys seem to be up in Isaan or with Isaan ladies who may or may not be speaking Thai , or some other country bumpkin dialect known only to their village and the surrounding 10km . An exaggeration but I hope you see my point . Not saying this applies to you though.

My wife's sister's MIL who is a Chinese-Thai born in Thailand doesn't really understand Isaan that well even though she would have heard it for years as a result of my wife's sister . And she is Thai so I'm often amazed at some of the people on here who claim that they know all that is going on around them.

Also , they put subtitles on the news on TV when people are speaking Isaan .

[bermondburi]

...

not been to Scotland then ?

they do have white Scots over there?

and all shades between white and blue.

And green, but we shouldn't let our petty prejudices cloud a discussion on racism.

SC

tp many battered Mars bars if they're green.

[cooked]

I dispair. How are you going to get farang food, see farang films, drink

farang beer? Ask for kuhn beer?

I am slowly learning the names of the people in the village and until I do they are 'Swiss lady', German lady neighbour', boss lady, drunk, Katoey, fatty, prostitute. And sometimes Farang when I really don't know how else to describe them.