Talk Of Charter Rewrite Keeps Political Heat Up

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL

Talk of charter rewrite keeps political heat up

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Remark by Phumtham and ex-PM's visit will stir up anti-Thaksin groups

In Thailand nowadays, the political temperature has to be kept near boiling point. After weeks of relative calm, many protagonists seem to now be itching for action. Thaksin Shinawatra is rumoured to be planning to swoop down near the northern Thai border, an anti-Thaksin gathering drew an unexpectedly large crowd a few days ago, and we can always count on some people in the ruling Pheu Thai Party to bring back the explosive issue of a constitutional revamp.

Pheu Thai secretary general Phumtham Wechayachai has been quoted as saying that the party remained committed to writing a brand-new charter. This has come as a little surprise, because recent messages from Pheu Thai's real patriarch Thaksin seemed to be that, to avoid a potentially disastrous social confrontation, the current Constitution would only be amended, not annulled. Whatever the real plan is, the ruling party's strategy when charter rewrite is concerned is to "box" rather than "fight".

The issue of charter change, however, can blow up in anybody's face regardless of whether he is "boxing" or "fighting". On one hand, Pheu Thai deserves sympathy for having to do something to help its real leader, Thaksin. On the other hand, the party will only have itself to blame if things go bad as a result of it doing so. Shaky as it is, Thailand's democracy has let Pheu Thai implement any contentious policy if it is within the proper scope of its popular mandate. To be perceived as trying to help Thaksin through a new charter will push the limits.

The latest reports on Pheu Thai getting ready to re-launch its bid to neutralise the existing "military-installed" Constitution will re-invigorate the party's political enemies. They have attacked the controversial rice price pledging policy but the government seems unfazed. They hoped that last year's catastrophic flooding would wipe away Yingluck Shinawatra's popularity but they were disappointed. A series of contentious high-level bureaucratic reshuffles bordering on nepotism have taken place with little or no resistance. Whatever this Pheu Thai government has wanted to do has been done, as long as it involves exercising democratic powers to run the country.

Just a mere mention of Thaksin's name brought some 20,000 protesters to the Royal Turf Club last weekend. That was before Phumtham was quoted on the front page of a newspaper as saying that the party was stepping up a strategy to win public support for constitutional changes. With an all-out charter campaign, that number can easily double or triple. In Thai political context, though, it doesn't take that many protesters to cause serious political tension. We have learned the hard way how zealous, well-organised anti-government demonstrators can plunge the nation into a crisis.

Can an elected government initiate a charter amendment? Of course, it can. Can it introduce structural or rule changes concerning the executive, legislative and judicial branches? Absolutely. After all, Thailand has tried and tested appointed and elected Senate, form new ministries and create the likes of Constitution Court or Election Commission. If the people vote you into office, they entrust you with deciding how things should be run.

It can get a lot more complicated when "things that should be run" involve matters that democratic powers of the government don't usually or can acceptably deal with. For example, if parliamentary strength asserts its power to decide which act is a crime and which act is not, what do we need the judiciary for? Can an elected government whitewash someone of a crime? In theory, yes. But that government must also be prepared for consequences and be sport enough not to blame a "conspiracy" if its plans are sabotaged.

Pheu Thai has its reasons, but its action also feeds its enemies with reasons - or pretexts if you will - to oppose it. The reported bid to re-launch the charter campaign is giving what happened at the Royal Turf Club last weekend some sense of justification. From people "fixated" unreasonably on Thaksin, the Pitak Siam demonstrators now can claim they are not just being paranoid. They can point at what Phumtham said and proclaim "See? This is why we have to do it."

-- The Nation 2012-11-04

[Roadman]

Good summary.

[fareastguy]

PTP are still chipping away at the edges until they find a weak spot or everyone gets so tired that they give up the fight against Thaksin.

I don't even want to see him back to serve his jail time, I'd rather keep him as far away as possible for as long as possible.

But the ruling party are putting faces in places to keep the fight going in his direction, which he hopes is homeward bound for a heroes return.

Long may his self imposed exile continue and his ability to govern from the fringes.

God forbid what would happen if he set foot back into his beloved Thailand.

[asiawatcher]

"Pheu Thai deserves sympathy for having to do something to help its real leader, Thaksin".

Utter crap. PTP has no recognisable leadership under law by any stretch of the imagination. Unbelievably, the fact Thailand allows itself to be run by an exiled convicted criminal shows how incompetent and ridiculous it is and how it is really perceived in the eyes of the world. If Thailand had any intestinal fortitude it would remove this cancer once and for all and then perhaps gain some 'face' in international circles. Right now it is a pathetic example of greed, corruption and mismanagement, built on arrogance masterminded by one man who cares nothing about this country or its people, simply a self serving narcissistic sociopath hell bent on revenge.

[Rich teacher]

"Just a mere mention of Thaksin's name brought some 20,000 protesters to the Royal Turf Club last weekend." In order to support Boonlert who has just come out to state that his goal is a indefinite military government, not another election. He should be put in jail or a mental institution along with his yellow supporters

[jerrysteve]

That Charter has been Rewritten so many times it must have Calluses on it.

[Thaddeus]

Boonlert who has just come out to state that his goal is a indefinite military government, not another election.

Really, when did he say that? source please.

[jonclark]

He should be put in jail or a mental institution along with his yellow supporters

Ah so you consider incarceration or jailing political opponents as a valid way to run a democracy?

But thanks for the heads up as to your understanding of how you'd like to see democracy progressing, maturing and developing in Thailand.

Personally, let them get one with it, they're no more dangerous than the UDD and the government is perfectly content to have UDD leaders in PTP.

And before you yell - he called for a coup - he didn't he said "he'd like to see a coup" [The Nation 24th Oct 2012] , likewise i'd like to win the lottery and see YL in a bikini - we can but dream eh?

Edited November 4, 2012 by jonclark

[LuckyLew]

Let him come back

IMO someone will put a cap in his ...

Then he can get the BBQ at a Wat in Chang Mai

and Thailand can then finally move forward without

the lingering cancer

[Guest]

Sorry for the stupid question, but please help. I'm not native English speaker and I don't fully understand what is 'charter'.

Is it equivalent to constitution?

[Rich teacher]

Boonlert who has just come out to state that his goal is a indefinite military government, not another election.

Really, when did he say that? source please.

This morning's news on TV (nation channel actually). Sure it'll be in the papers soon

[Rich teacher]

He should be put in jail or a mental institution along with his yellow supporters

Ah so you consider incarceration or jailing political opponents as a valid way to run a democracy?

But thanks for the heads up as to your understanding of how you'd like to see democracy progressing, maturing and developing in Thailand.

Personally, let them get one with it, they're no more dangerous than the UDD and the government is perfectly content to have UDD leaders in PTP.

And before you yell - he called for a coup - he didn't he said "he'd like to see a coup" [The Nation 24th Oct 2012] , likewise i'd like to win the lottery and see YL in a bikini - we can but dream eh?

Well good to see you are sticking up for a guy who is calling for the end of democracy in Thailand. Commendable.

[whybother]

Sorry for the stupid question, but please help. I'm not native English speaker and I don't fully understand what is 'charter'.

Is it equivalent to constitution?

Yes.

[Guest]

Sorry for the stupid question, but please help. I'm not native English speaker and I don't fully understand what is 'charter'.

Is it equivalent to constitution?

Yes.

Thanks!

[ratcatcher]

Sorry for the stupid question, but please help. I'm not native English speaker and I don't fully understand what is 'charter'.

Is it equivalent to constitution?

Not a stupid question, I'm a native speaker and preferred to look it up for clarification.

This may help from Dictionary.com:

char·ter

   /ˈtʃɑrtər/ Show IPA

noun

1.

a document, issued by a sovereign or state, outlining the conditions under which a corporation, colony, city, or other corporate body is organized, and defining its rights and privileges.

2.

( often initial capital letter ) a document defining the formal organization of a corporate body; constitution: the Charter of the United Nations.

3.

authorization from a central or parent organization to establish a new branch, chapter, etc.

4.

a grant by a sovereign power creating a corporation, as the royal charters granted to British colonies in America.

5.

Also called charter party. a contract by which part or all of a ship is leased for a voyage or a stated time.char·ter   /ˈtʃɑrtər/ Show Spelled[chahr-ter] Show IPA

noun

1. a document, issued by a sovereign or state, outlining the conditions under which a corporation, colony, city, or other corporate body is organized, and defining its rights and privileges.

2. ( often initial capital letter ) a document defining the formal organization of a corporate body; constitution: the Charter of the United Nations.

3. authorization from a central or parent organization to establish a new branch, chapter, etc.

4. a grant by a sovereign power creating a corporation, as the royal charters granted to British colonies in America.

5. Also called charter party. a contract by which part or all of a ship is leased for a voyage or a stated time.

[jonclark]

He should be put in jail or a mental institution along with his yellow supporters

Ah so you consider incarceration or jailing political opponents as a valid way to run a democracy?

But thanks for the heads up as to your understanding of how you'd like to see democracy progressing, maturing and developing in Thailand.

Personally, let them get one with it, they're no more dangerous than the UDD and the government is perfectly content to have UDD leaders in PTP.

And before you yell - he called for a coup - he didn't he said "he'd like to see a coup" [The Nation 24th Oct 2012] , likewise i'd like to win the lottery and see YL in a bikini - we can but dream eh?

Well good to see you are sticking up for a guy who is calling for the end of democracy in Thailand. Commendable.

Did I?? where?? Put your specs on and read again. In a democracy you have to accept all sides irrespective of your personal view. Democracy is inclusive of all views no matter how radical or extreme. Democracy is not the preserve of the few.

You certainly don't jail or call for those who have slightly different views to you, to be jailed because they see things differently. [it was that i was commenting on from your original post]

That's (the jailing's) what the dems did last time... so you're in good company as they share your view on jailing dissenting voices as well. just ask the UDD leaders about it.

Edited November 4, 2012 by jonclark

[Rich teacher]

Did I?? where?? Put your specs on and read again. In a democracy you have to accept all sides irrespective of your personal view. Democracy is inclusive of all views no matter how radical or extreme. Democracy is not the preserve of the few.

You certainly don't jail or call for those who have slightly different views to you, to be jailed because they see things differently. [it was that i was commenting on from your original post]

That's (the jailing's) what the dems did last time... so you're in good company as they share your view on jailing dissenting voices as well. just ask the UDD leaders about it.

You seem to know a lot about democracy .... wonder why then you stick up for coups and advocate overthrowing politically elected governments. As for jailing those with opposing views, just ask your pal AV.

[Fozfromoz]

He should be put in jail or a mental institution along with his yellow supporters

Ah so you consider incarceration or jailing political opponents as a valid way to run a democracy?

But thanks for the heads up as to your understanding of how you'd like to see democracy progressing, maturing and developing in Thailand.

Personally, let them get one with it, they're no more dangerous than the UDD and the government is perfectly content to have UDD leaders in PTP.

And before you yell - he called for a coup - he didn't he said "he'd like to see a coup" [The Nation 24th Oct 2012] , likewise i'd like to win the lottery and see YL in a bikini - we can but dream eh?

In the other paper last week, he (Boonlert) was reported as saying that if he had the power, he would stage a coup, as it's the only way to remove the government

Certainly agree with you on the lottery numbers and Y in a Bikini though. I would take the money. I think the euphoria would last longer.

[Thaddeus]

He should be put in jail or a mental institution along with his yellow supporters

Ah so you consider incarceration or jailing political opponents as a valid way to run a democracy?

But thanks for the heads up as to your understanding of how you'd like to see democracy progressing, maturing and developing in Thailand.

Personally, let them get one with it, they're no more dangerous than the UDD and the government is perfectly content to have UDD leaders in PTP.

And before you yell - he called for a coup - he didn't he said "he'd like to see a coup" [The Nation 24th Oct 2012] , likewise i'd like to win the lottery and see YL in a bikini - we can but dream eh?

Well good to see you are sticking up for a guy who is calling for the end of democracy in Thailand. Commendable.

Let me know when democracy in Thailand starts then.

[bigbamboo]

That Charter has been Rewritten so many times it must have Calluses on it.

Imagine a Thai court...... " I plead the 275th Amendment"

[Siripon]

Did I?? where?? Put your specs on and read again. In a democracy you have to accept all sides irrespective of your personal view. Democracy is inclusive of all views no matter how radical or extreme. Democracy is not the preserve of the few.

You certainly don't jail or call for those who have slightly different views to you, to be jailed because they see things differently. [it was that i was commenting on from your original post]

That's (the jailing's) what the dems did last time... so you're in good company as they share your view on jailing dissenting voices as well. just ask the UDD leaders about it.

You seem to know a lot about democracy .... wonder why then you stick up for coups and advocate overthrowing politically elected governments. As for jailing those with opposing views, just ask your pal AV.

Most of those who supported the 2006 coup opposed the Sujinda military government of 1992, ie they are educated people.

They realised in 2006 and now, how dangerous Thaksin is in his lust for power and contempt for democratic controls.

The 2006 coup was necessary and maybe again if Pheua Thai try to whitewash Thaksin's crimes which were all committed well before the coup.

[asiawatcher]

Did I?? where?? Put your specs on and read again. In a democracy you have to accept all sides irrespective of your personal view. Democracy is inclusive of all views no matter how radical or extreme. Democracy is not the preserve of the few.

You certainly don't jail or call for those who have slightly different views to you, to be jailed because they see things differently. [it was that i was commenting on from your original post]

That's (the jailing's) what the dems did last time... so you're in good company as they share your view on jailing dissenting voices as well. just ask the UDD leaders about it.

You seem to know a lot about democracy .... wonder why then you stick up for coups and advocate overthrowing politically elected governments. As for jailing those with opposing views, just ask your pal AV.

Right now Thailand is due for anarchy, forget the use of the word democracy as it like its propagators use it as a tool of control. Overthrowing bandits by the use of a coup is hardly political, more like essential, and unable to be done by so called democratic process when the power is controlled by criminals. It is the only way to remove corrupt political parties who have taken control of govt coffers, are in cahoots with corrupt police, are spending without any fiscal responsibility whilst continually brainwashing less intelligent populace, claiming they have their interests at heart. Right down to vote buying - there is nothing correct about the PTP, elected or otherwise. The Pareto principle is well entrenched in the direction of the PTP and its puppet master. There are in any society, more poor than rich and to get a vote to power simply sucker the poor. Add a criminal mind and the result is obvious.

Edited November 4, 2012 by asiawatcher

[jonclark]

Did I?? where?? Put your specs on and read again. In a democracy you have to accept all sides irrespective of your personal view. Democracy is inclusive of all views no matter how radical or extreme. Democracy is not the preserve of the few.

You certainly don't jail or call for those who have slightly different views to you, to be jailed because they see things differently. [it was that i was commenting on from your original post]

That's (the jailing's) what the dems did last time... so you're in good company as they share your view on jailing dissenting voices as well. just ask the UDD leaders about it.

You seem to know a lot about democracy .... wonder why then you stick up for coups and advocate overthrowing politically elected governments. As for jailing those with opposing views, just ask your pal AV.

Where the hell in my posts have I stuck up for coups and overthrowing elected governments? I have stated that in a democracy you must include those with opposing views, no matter how right, left or centrist those views maybe.

So re-read post 5, realise you've made huge boo-boo and have beautifully contradicted yourself by implying AV jails political opponents people in post #56, (which is wrong) ,but in post #5 you call for that exact same action against a political opponent who you clearly dislike. Once you've realised your mistake have a nice cup of tea and go and have a lie down in a dark room with some relaxing music.