Should I Apply For My Irish Passport Now ?

[el2004]

Hi, I'm British but eligible for an Irish passport through my grandmother, I'm potentially maybe looking to get married end of this year / early next year to my Thai gf of 3 years. With all this drama of a uk spouse visa would I be better getting my Irish passport and when the time comes apply for my at the time wife using that?

Any advice on this matter ? As I'm aware Irish passports can take a while to apply. And also if I do this can I show my gf visited me in the uk as me as a sponsor but I used my UK passport for evidence?

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[Eff1n2ret]

There were changes in the EEA Regulations in July this year, one of which was that dual UK/EEA nationals can no longer use their EEA nationality to sponsor an application for an "EEA Family Member." As a UK national, the only way you could get your future wife in under the EEA Regs would be to work and live with her for a while in another EU country.

Not a bad idea, though, to claim your other nationality in any case. You never know when it might come in handy, and when I looked into it a few years ago, Irish passports were significantly cheaper than UK.

[el2004]

Does this apply to everyone or just people born in NI ? If I gave up my British citizenship and only had my Irish surely they have to accept that as it is my only nationality ?, dam_n this is confusing

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[Eff1n2ret]

Does this apply to everyone or just people born in NI ? If I gave up my British citizenship and only had my Irish surely they have to accept that as it is my only nationality ?, dam_n this is confusing

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It' not just an "irish/UK" issue, it would apply to any dual UK/EEA national (of whom there are many). This is the wording of the actual sub-paragraph implementing this change in the Regulations:-

(d)in the definition of "EEA national" after "national of an EEA State" insert "who is not also a United Kingdom national"

Presumably if anyone decides to renounce UK nationality they would then be "a national of an EEA State who is not also a United Kingdom national." If it was me, I would think long and hard before giving up my UK citizenship. Consider this little-known and as yet (as far as I am aware) unused provision of the same 2006 EEA Regulations (Para 19):-

(3) ....a person who has been admitted to, or acquired a right to reside in, the United Kingdom under these Regulations may be removed from the United Kingdom

if—

(a) he does not have or ceases to have a right to reside under these Regulations;

The "right to reside" derives from being a "qualified person", which is defined elsewhere in the Regs. as a "worker, jobseeker, self-sufficient person, self-employed, or a student." In the last year before I retired I looked into this in some detail after being asked by the police for assistance in dealing with some Eastern European vagrants who were causing continual trouble in the city where I worked. It was clear that whilst any EU national has a right to travel to another EU state and stay for up to 3 months, the right to stay beyond that only derives from being a "qualified person". So, if someone has no job and no intention or realistic prospect of gettting one (and after 6 months unemployed you could be regarded as having no realistic prospect), the law says you can be chucked out. At the time, I was told that my proposal to remove those vagrants was legally correct but I never got clearance from On High to go ahead before I retired.

But times, they are a-changing, with a much stronger anti-EU sentiment in the UK, and indeed a question-mark over the whole structure of the EU in these uncertain times. So don't just assume that if you convert yourself into an EU national you have all the rights of a UK citizen - you don't, and in particular you no longer have Right of Abode. It might seem a smart move at the time, but could have unintended consequences a few years down the line. Of course, the UK's relationship with Ireland and the rights of Irish nationals predate the EU, so it is reasonable to hope that those rights are preserved, whatever happens to the EU.

[theslime]

When I can,t remember, but the Irish Emb/ Consulate had gone from Satorn BKK and the nearest office was in Malaysia.

[el2004]

So to summarize, can I apply for spouse visa if married with an Irish passport?

The UK route seems daunting, expensive and a bit mickey taking jumping through so many hoops each year or whatever the timescales are.

I meet financial requirements etc now, but who knows what's round the corner let alone 5 years?

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[7by7]

If you are just Irish and live in the UK then she can apply using your Irish nationality under the EEA regulations.

If you have joint British and Irish nationality and you live in the UK, or outside the EEA, e.g. Thailand, then she has to apply for a UK spouse visa.

If you have British nationality (regardless of any dual nationality) and are living and working in another EEA state and she is living there with you and you are now both moving to the UK then she can apply under the EEA directions.

Edited November 7, 2012 by 7by7

[el2004]

Hi 7x7 thanks for the reply,

So if I get my Irish sorted and give my UK up, I can go eu route, ?

Is there any disadvantages to this? I'm not wholly fussed about being UK passport holder would be just as happy having an Irish one, just don't want to get deported or anything lol. Or cause any problems with a visa application

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[7by7]

I am not sure hat it is as simple as that; particularly if you have always lived in the UK.

You should think long and hard about this.

You say that you can meet the financial requirements for a UK spouse visa at present but are worried about the future. If you renounce your British citizenship and live in the UK as an Irish citizen under the EEA rules; what if, for example, you lose your job? If you don't find another one withing three months you will no longer be a qualified person and so may have to leave the UK; unless you have the means to support yourself and your family without working.

Were I you I would seek professional advice on the advantages and disadvantages of embarking down this road before deciding anything.

Assuming you are able to do so! See How do I give up British citizenship or another form of British nationality? and links from there; in particular Guide RN.

[Richard W]

If El2004 used the ploy of renouncing British nationality if his circumstances took a downturn, what would his wife have to do to regularise her position as the wife of an EEA national? While El2004 might not find good employment, he and his wife might find adequate employment. There are also supposed to be provisions for when a couple's income drops below the threshold, though I haven't researched them. I don't know if they would give any relief from the UK Metoikon. The prime feature publicised was that they delayed the path to citizenship. (It seems ironic that policies originally aimed at integration are entangled with policies that encourage people to renounce British citizenship!)