Negativity About English Teachers In Thailand On Here?

[Neeranam]

Yes, that is the problem, and IMNSHO only a teacher with full command of both a language the student understand, and the language the student want to learn,

have the potential of being a good teacher

Nonsense. When teaching a language you only use the language being taught. I'm amazed how many English teachers ask me if I know a Thai who speaks English to teach them Thai, when they know very well that they should never speak Thai when teaching English.

I know from experience - I taught English here for 14 years.

Also, I learned to speak Thai by immersing myself in an environment with only Thai. I got girlfriends who couldn't speak English. Eventually I got a wife who couldn't speak a word of English - the best way, by far, to learn.

So if you are looking for a Thai teacher remember English speaking is a disadvantage

Nonsense. An English teacher is not hired nor tasked to teach English. He or she is a babysitter just like the Thai teachers and for than you need to speak Thai. And anyway you try to teach 40 to 60 Thai kids without speaking Thai, Nonsense.

If you have a Thai assistant in the back of the class wacking them well then it is different.

I have taught 60 kids in a class when I was desperate years ago - no teaching assistant - it was very hard work, no air con, but it was possible if well prepared. Speaking Thai was good only for classroom management. It annoys me so much hearing Teachers who can't even speak Thai try to use it in a class. Hopefully never again. More recently I taught 100 kids at a time which was a waste of time apart from they were all 17-20 year old girls.

Teaching kids in a bad school is not the only option here. It's ok for a young guy right off the boat who knows no better and has lots of energy. Even then, the maximum time is usually around 2 years.

I agree many of the schools do just want 'dancing white monkeys' with a nice pair of shoes and grovelling demeanor.

[Neeranam]

It's definitely a mixed bag here. You have good teachers and bad ones. I think some of the bad rap comes from what many like to refer to as "Tefl'ers" These are people who do not have a university degree. The best ever by a long way was an ex-butcher. Only a tefl certificate. I personally think that if you want to be entrusted with the education of others, you must at least have an education yourself.

In my experience, the best teachers of ESL that I've come across have not had degrees. I can think of at least 5 terrible ones that were fired quickly who had PhDs or MAs.

I have a degree in Petroleum Engineering(and identify with your moving here from a high paid job) and having it was of no relevance in teaching a bunch of kids conversational English. Only one teaching job I had was it relevant - teaching upper levels of Exxon Mobil staff.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

40 kids....add 20 and welcome to my world

In each of my 18 classes

Must be tough getting to know all their names. . .

[thaicbr]

It's definitely a mixed bag here. You have good teachers and bad ones. I think some of the bad rap comes from what many like to refer to as "Tefl'ers" These are people who do not have a university degree. The best ever by a long way was an ex-butcher. Only a tefl certificate. I personally think that if you want to be entrusted with the education of others, you must at least have an education yourself.

In my experience, the best teachers of ESL that I've come across have not had degrees. I can think of at least 5 terrible ones that were fired quickly who had PhDs or MAs.

I have a degree in Petroleum Engineering(and identify with your moving here from a high paid job) and having it was of no relevance in teaching a bunch of kids conversational English. Only one teaching job I had was it relevant - teaching upper levels of Exxon Mobil staff.

I think this comment is very relevant "teaching a bunch of kids conversational English"

The vast majority of Foreign English teachers here work at schools in normal program, not EP or Intensive English programs OR International schools.

[thaicbr]

40 kids....add 20 and welcome to my world

In each of my 18 classes

Must be tough getting to know all their names. . .

it's easy.................................... student

[Neeranam]

The best ever teacher of ESL I've worked with was an ex-butcher. The worst had a PhD in Language Acquisition.

[Neeranam]

It's definitely a mixed bag here. You have good teachers and bad ones. I think some of the bad rap comes from what many like to refer to as "Tefl'ers" These are people who do not have a university degree. The best ever by a long way was an ex-butcher. Only a tefl certificate. I personally think that if you want to be entrusted with the education of others, you must at least have an education yourself.

In my experience, the best teachers of ESL that I've come across have not had degrees. I can think of at least 5 terrible ones that were fired quickly who had PhDs or MAs.

I have a degree in Petroleum Engineering(and identify with your moving here from a high paid job) and having it was of no relevance in teaching a bunch of kids conversational English. Only one teaching job I had was it relevant - teaching upper levels of Exxon Mobil staff.

I think this comment is very relevant "teaching a bunch of kids conversational English"

The vast majority of Foreign English teachers here work at schools in normal program, not EP or Intensive English programs OR International schools.

.Agreed. But the kids in an English Program or International school can usually speak English. I think it's important that the teachers are qualified. I've worked in English programs and chose to put my kids to normal Thai programs. At least there the Maths teacher has a degree in Maths and the Chemistry teacher, Chemistry. There are so may bad English programs where the Physics teacher has a degree in Philosophy and the Chemistry teacher, Political science. I'm sure they are better than they were 10 years ago with more foreigners coming here and looking for work. I'd rather pay less for the Thai program. These EPs are fine for rich Thais who want their kids to speak English and start their cronyism.

[HeavyDrinker]

I think that you will find that most of the people knocking teachers here are probably living on less money and have less to show for their times here.

Is that just some wild guess?

In my experience of people who hold teachers in contempt, they tend to be from all sections of "expat" society here, from elderly retirees to multi-nats with all the trimmings.

For many, the contempt is rooted from too many impromptu bar room lectures on Thai Language/History/Culture given by some nylon shirted fool with an inflated opinion of themselves - probably due to their new found "status" - when its obvious they've only been here for 6 months and they probably won't see out another 6 when they realise they can get lots more money for humiliating themselves elsewhere in Asia...

[maxme]

I thought the grammar police weren't allowed in this forum.

In general, I agree, but English teachers who can't write good English are fair game, because they devalue the honoured profession of teaching.

Unless we are multi tasking and not really paying much attention. It is our free time and we don't have to make sure that everything we write in written correctly.

So, with this theory, a 4 star chef who like to eat at mcdonalds is dishonoring his profession? Me thinks possible you just like to point out others mistakes. Perhaps makes you feel superior,

Not really - I can't recall "grammar-policing" anybody as long as I can remember, on an internet forum it barely matters. So if you're an English teacher, I will on this occasion refrain from pointing out the mistakes in your post (not including the US spelling of "dishonoring").

The OP asked why English teachers tend to get a bad press on Thai Visa. I commented that one possible reason is that some of them diminish their credibility by sloppy English. I see no reason to withdraw that comment.

I take it you are/have been in the industry or know somebody who is?

[StreetCowboy]

We can all speculate endlessly about the sort of person that might denigrate teachers, but surely it would be more helpful if someone who held teachers in contempt could come forward and tell us a little bit about themselves

SC

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Contempt, disdain, feeling superior to someone no matter the trigger, even the lack of natural fibres in their shirting, is IMO an outward sign of insecurity and fear.

I find it much more productive for my own serenity to be accepting of all the wide variety of human frailty we all share together; accept and try to ignore those showing arrogance and intolerance, try not to show how much I pity their lack of peace.

Edited November 7, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[IMA_FARANG]

To make it clear then.

There are many "English" teachers who are serious teachers and are actually interested in teaching.

HOWEVER, there are also some "teachers" who only have taken up teaching as a means of remaining in Thailand, and persueing their true interests....the "nightlife", Thai bargirls, and booze.

Their qualifications, if real, are minimum at best.

They complain about their "long hours" and their "low pay".

What they really mean is that their "heavy workload" is cutting into their bar time.

Now, I KNOW not all English teachers are like that.

But there are enough bad examples....some with fake credentials....to make the term "English Tteachers" a description that causes a smirk on the faces of many long term farang residents here in Thailand.

And the good and real dedicated teachers are tarred by that very same brush.

[maxme]

We can all speculate endlessly about the sort of person that might denigrate teachers, but surely it would be more helpful if someone who held teachers in contempt could come forward and tell us a little bit about themselves

SC

After the massive criticism and negativity the members here have displayed... Who would want to?

Seems some self-claimed judges already know the reasons for why Thai people can't speak proper English. It's easy... just blame the western teachers.

Oh well I'm glad we sorted that out

Given the fine mess the country is in, it's not always that straight foward when it comes to solving this and at the problem definitely does not lie with the western teachers.

One of the reasons the organizational structure is not intact in most companies here is because of bad management. If you have been to some of the schools around the country you'll notice what candidates are placed in positions as Head of the English Department for example. Some of them are qualified but many are not. Not enough experience, no managing skills or cannot even speak the language they are supposed to be teaching... and these people are the ones responsible for setting up programs.

Let me ask you this... Now everywhere in Thailand if the student have been taught English in a governmental school even though this could occur with students from private ones as well... They cannot pronounce H or X.... Now why is that?

[StreetCowboy]

Contempt, disdain, feeling superior to someone no matter the trigger, even the lack of natural fibres in their shirting, is IMO an outward sign of insecurity and fear.

I find it much more productive for my own serenity to be accepting of all the wide variety of human frailty we all share together; accept and try to ignore those showing arrogance and intolerance, try not to show how much I pity their lack of peace.

I really dislike socks made from manmade fibre. I pretty much only buy socks at Marks &.Spencer now. I'll probably stock up when I'm back I'm the Old Country later I'm the month

SC

[Trembly]

Because many people(NOT ALL) on this forum are very unhappy with their lives. They live here for any of several reasons. They didn't plan for the future and in a small village in Thailand is the only place they can afford to live. 2) They couldn't find a woman in their own country, so they come here and use their money to get and keep a woman and she and her family are a constant drain on his finances. 3) Some people are just hateful and bitter and criticize anything and everything they can. And there are some people on this forum that can only feel good about themselves if they are belittling someone else.

The schools don't pay enough to attract qualified teachers. Who is going to spend 4 years in university and be 20k+ in debt, and then take a job teaching English in thailand for 30.000 baht a month?

As with most things in life you get what you pay for.

I doubt that teaching English in Thailand for a living was on the minds of any of the English speakers when they were applying for their bachelor's degrees.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Trembly

[Trembly]

It's post-grad because you can't commence PGCE training without a bachelor's in the subject that you will teach, or one that is closely related.

So for a high school student wanting to become a primary teacher just getting a B.Ed would be the way to go. . .

More or less : http://www.education.gov.uk/get-into-teaching/teacher-training-options/university-based-training/undergraduate-itt.aspx .

But for someone with a bachelor's degree who finds that they are inclined to teach in Thailand for whatever whim, rhyme or reason, they could do a lot worse for themselves than to go back home and get themselves a post-grad teaching qualification. A year flies by in no time.

[chonabot]

40 kids....add 20 and welcome to my world

In each of my 18 classes

Must be tough getting to know all their names. . .

Impossible, yet I know about 5-10 from each class. These are usually the ones who have got my attention by being helpful and/or good.

[chonabot]

I think that you will find that most of the people knocking teachers here are probably living on less money and have less to show for their times here.

Is that just some wild guess?

In my experience of people who hold teachers in contempt, they tend to be from all sections of "expat" society here, from elderly retirees to multi-nats with all the trimmings.

For many, the contempt is rooted from too many impromptu bar room lectures on Thai Language/History/Culture given by some nylon shirted fool with an inflated opinion of themselves - probably due to their new found "status" - when its obvious they've only been here for 6 months and they probably won't see out another 6 when they realise they can get lots more money for humiliating themselves elsewhere in Asia...

We should just give up then and heed the contempt from these trimmed experts........that would help the Thai students to gear up for 2015.....

[chiangmaikelly]

Must be tough getting to know all their names. . .

it's easy.................................... student

It's easy in an international school. "Hey you Farang student."

[poanoi]

Yes, that is the problem, and IMNSHO only a teacher with full command of both a language the student understand, and the language the student want to learn,

have the potential of being a good teacher

Nonsense. When teaching a language you only use the language being taught. I'm amazed how many English teachers ask me if I know a Thai who speaks English to teach them Thai, when they know very well that they should never speak Thai when teaching English.

I know from experience - I taught English here for 14 years.

Also, I learned to speak Thai by immersing myself in an environment with only Thai. I got girlfriends who couldn't speak English. Eventually I got a wife who couldn't speak a word of English - the best way, by far, to learn.

So if you are looking for a Thai teacher remember English speaking is a disadvantage

Typical rationalization of incompetence... the only reason you only use english is because you are restricted to only english.

If you had sufficient knowledge of thai, you would use it to explain, when english no longer suffice

[chiangmaikelly]

The best ever teacher of ESL I've worked with was an ex-butcher. The worst had a PhD in Language Acquisition.

I would assume you are trying to make a point here rather than suggest a new criteria for educators.

Because if you are saying that post graduate education for teaching English should be butchering I wonder at your sanity.

Or if you expect us to believe that your experience is representative of the teaching field in general you are a bit nutty.

I guess you are one of those people who slag of Ph D's and promote butchering. At least it is on topic.

[NeverSure]

I'm blown away by the use of the English language here, but only by some who protest the loudest about others not being educated. That's not all of course, but there are some. I really choked on one rather long post back a page where the poster was pontificating about educational requirements.

For his information, there is no verb for "importantly" to modify so he should have used "more important." Additionally, that is a long, run-on and incomplete sentence brother. The last long phrase lacks a verb; even an implied one.

I have no degree in anything, but I'd be happy to proof-read your writing for you because you need the help. I could also teach English very well if I were so inclined.

Edited November 8, 2012 by NeverSure

[uptheos]

a restaurant owner told me he dont like backpackers and teachers. btw he seems to be offended at me for ordering a promotion meal with just mineral water instead of the typical sugary beverages or alcohol and he is assuming me to be either a backpacker or a teacher. eventually i got really pissed off and did a stupid move by giving him a 1000 baht note for a 200 baht meal and asked him to keep the change

I agree with you regarding owners not liking it if you don't order beer or soft drink they can't comprehend someone drinking water or nothing out of preference. However, your response simply brings you to their level, i.e. very stupid! (which you acknowledge)

[chiangmaikelly]

Yes, that is the problem, and IMNSHO only a teacher with full command of both a language the student understand, and the language the student want to learn,

have the potential of being a good teacher

Nonsense. When teaching a language you only use the language being taught. I'm amazed how many English teachers ask me if I know a Thai who speaks English to teach them Thai, when they know very well that they should never speak Thai when teaching English.

I know from experience - I taught English here for 14 years.

Also, I learned to speak Thai by immersing myself in an environment with only Thai. I got girlfriends who couldn't speak English. Eventually I got a wife who couldn't speak a word of English - the best way, by far, to learn.

So if you are looking for a Thai teacher remember English speaking is a disadvantage

Typical rationalization of incompetence... the only reason you only use english is because you are restricted to only english.

If you had sufficient knowledge of thai, you would use it to explain, when english no longer suffice

I have tried it both ways. You are absolutely correct. Also classroom management is impossible not speaking Thai as no one would get to the toilet. A real teacher knows that classroom management is at least 50% of teaching.

[Neeranam]

Yes, that is the problem, and IMNSHO only a teacher with full command of both a language the student understand, and the language the student want to learn,

have the potential of being a good teacher

Nonsense. When teaching a language you only use the language being taught. I'm amazed how many English teachers ask me if I know a Thai who speaks English to teach them Thai, when they know very well that they should never speak Thai when teaching English.

I know from experience - I taught English here for 14 years.

Also, I learned to speak Thai by immersing myself in an environment with only Thai. I got girlfriends who couldn't speak English. Eventually I got a wife who couldn't speak a word of English - the best way, by far, to learn.

So if you are looking for a Thai teacher remember English speaking is a disadvantage

Typical rationalization of incompetence... the only reason you only use english is because you are restricted to only english.

If you had sufficient knowledge of thai, you would use it to explain, when english no longer suffice

Are you a teacher? Did you actually read my post?

Speaking Thai has been an advantage for sure, like understanding what a student wants if they can't explain in English but NEVER speak Thai in the lesson.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Neeranam

[chiangmaikelly]

I'm blown away by the use of the English language here, but only by some who protest the loudest about others not being educated. That's not all of course, but there are some. I really choked on one rather long post back a page where the poster was pontificating about educational requirements.

For his information, there is no verb for "importantly" to modify so he should have used "more important." Additionally, that is a long, run-on and incomplete sentence brother. The last long phrase lacks a verb; even an implied one.

I have no degree in anything, but I'd be happy to proof-read your writing for you because you need the help. I could also teach English very well if I were so inclined.

I don't think anyone can really know how difficult teaching English is in Thailand unless you have tried it. It is not Kansas.

They are not the nice little Asian kids that went to school with my children in the West. They are screaming, hateful, violent maniacs with head lice and that is only the kindergarten students.

[hookedondhamma]

Let me ask you this... Now everywhere in Thailand if the student have been taught English in a governmental school even though this could occur with students from private ones as well... They cannot pronounce H or X.... Now why is that?

Yes they can!! Yes they can!!! The thai versions, though -

H - 'Hayth'

X - 'Ek'

S - 'Et'

They can do the 'R', 'V' and 'Z', too!

R - 'Aah'

V - 'Wee'

Z - 'See'

As far as the pronouncing, I think it's a bit difficult to get them started after they've had a few years. There's a small boy around 4 whose parents I meet with frequently. Their parents speak English with the Thai accent, though even with his being born Thai, can enunciate properly, and effortlessly. Mind like a sponge - not a screaming, hateful, violent maniac with headlice (lol ChiangMaiKelly, I see you lol)

[poanoi]

lol

Edited November 8, 2012 by poanoi

[NeverSure]

I'm blown away by the use of the English language here, but only by some who protest the loudest about others not being educated. That's not all of course, but there are some. I really choked on one rather long post back a page where the poster was pontificating about educational requirements.

For his information, there is no verb for "importantly" to modify so he should have used "more important." Additionally, that is a long, run-on and incomplete sentence brother. The last long phrase lacks a verb; even an implied one.

I have no degree in anything, but I'd be happy to proof-read your writing for you because you need the help. I could also teach English very well if I were so inclined.

I don't think anyone can really know how difficult teaching English is in Thailand unless you have tried it. It is not Kansas.

They are not the nice little Asian kids that went to school with my children in the West. They are screaming, hateful, violent maniacs with head lice and that is only the kindergarten students.

I understand your point, but I was referring to a God-like belief in higher education in English itself as the answer to being able to teach. I am especially noting some who yell the loudest about their education and the inability of those without the same to teach. Yet they can't use the language correctly themselves!

Thai classroom management is another story and is perhaps only something learned "in the dirt" in a Thai classroom. I doubt that there are any classes for that in Boston.

Edited November 8, 2012 by NeverSure

[Trembly]

Contempt, disdain, feeling superior to someone no matter the trigger, even the lack of natural fibres in their shirting, is IMO an outward sign of insecurity and fear.

I find it much more productive for my own serenity to be accepting of all the wide variety of human frailty we all share together; accept and try to ignore those showing arrogance and intolerance, try not to show how much I pity their lack of peace.

I really dislike socks made from manmade fibre. I pretty much only buy socks at Marks &.Spencer now. I'll probably stock up when I'm back I'm the Old Country later I'm the month

SC

There's a shop that only sells cotton stuff called Green Cotton on the second floor of Ploenchit Center. I got some nice cotton socks there to wear to work. 100 baht a pair and smell much fresher than synthetic fibre after a day at school.