Dear fellow members,sometimes I am really surprised(astonished,shocked)about some of the quotes here... Pls do your home work-if you have any problems with biting soy dogs,call the tessabhan and they take care of it.how do you can expect from people who don't take responsibility of their spouses,kids,environment,traffic laws,jobs....to take responsibility of a dog????animal rights don't apply here as many other laws,but c'mon it's their country,so take it or leave it...ps.:my favorite quote was about the second world war-pls realize the (European)war is over and Thailand is not in a war right know....

If one unneutered dog can service many females surely neutering the dog rather than many bitches would be a more effective way to reduce the number of puppies. And as far as Thai dogs go I don't see them migrating much. I see the same dogs and bitches in the same place year after year. With no links to studies given I'll stick with my choice of "fix the boys".

No problem Keesters. I'm not here to sell you anything. Just sharing some facts and knowledge here, acquired during 8 years working with international and local animal welfare organizations. I'm sure you know better though...

Eaten or not - the way they are treated says a lot about the state of animal welfare in Thailand.

Too many dogs start theri life as a nice fluffy plaything.

When it gets older the poor animal is not fluffy any more, and will be chucked out of the house

Then a new fluffy plaything is bought, spray-painted or not, and history repeats itself.

Very sorry for all those poor animals, but in very many araes of the country the dog population is getting a problem.

There are so many dogs running wild now that animal welfare stations, or private organisations, could never cope with the numbers.

Many dogs lead an awful life, are sick, and not taken care of in any way.

Maybe, just maybe, the dog population is now so huge culling might be the only solution.

I hate to say this, but I could not think of any other solution.

And because of the silly people taking a fluffy plaything every time, the culling gets more important.

Unfortunately culling has time and again been proven ineffective in areas where this was done, even where local governments sent killing squads out every day for decades. The only approach that can bring sustainable improvements is mass sterilization on the scale done in large urban areas in India for example.

A few years ago the BMA in Bangkok committed serious resources to this approach and, together with some private organizations like SCAD, began to show some tangible results. Alas, the effort was largely abandoned by the next government and valuable ground has been lost.

The dog meat trade, aside from being a despicably cruel business, could never make a statistically meaningful impact. There are no easy answers in the face of the existing stray population in Thailand and their amazing birth-rate.

But if everyone who's complaining about the nuisance these animal create would support one of the animal welfare organizations who conduct sterilization programs in their area, real progress could be made, one neighborhood at a time.

And yes, I know what I'm talking about, having spent several years working for an animal welfare NGO.

Whereas sterilisation may work if well funded - and it is not cheap - the dog population requires food......cut their access to food and the population will dwindle, add to this sterilisation and the results will be quicker.

It seems to me that people frequently don't consider the various ways these animals get sustenance, and how many dogs can be supported in a given area with the food available. All animal populations find a natural level dictated by available food per each area and predation. Dogs have few real predators in an urban environment

There are many sources of food for these dogs - garbage etc but i find it so saddening when I see people feeding dogs. i know they think they are doing a "good deed" and on an individual level they might be, but the effects it has on their community in the long run are dreadful......such a blinkered thing to do.

Sick dogs could be put down (out of their misery) but culling has never been nor ever will be an effective long term option.

Edited November 9, 201213 yr by cowslip

Too many dogs start theri life as a nice fluffy plaything.

When it gets older the poor animal is not fluffy any more, and will be chucked out of the house

Then a new fluffy plaything is bought, spray-painted or not, and history repeats itself.

Very sorry for all those poor animals, but in very many araes of the country the dog population is getting a problem.

There are so many dogs running wild now that animal welfare stations, or private organisations, could never cope with the numbers.

Many dogs lead an awful life, are sick, and not taken care of in any way.

Maybe, just maybe, the dog population is now so huge culling might be the only solution.

I hate to say this, but I could not think of any other solution.

And because of the silly people taking a fluffy plaything every time, the culling gets more important.

Unfortunately culling has time and again been proven ineffective in areas where this was done, even where local governments sent killing squads out every day for decades. The only approach that can bring sustainable improvements is mass sterilization on the scale done in large urban areas in India for example.

A few years ago the BMA in Bangkok committed serious resources to this approach and, together with some private organizations like SCAD, began to show some tangible results. Alas, the effort was largely abandoned by the next government and valuable ground has been lost.

The dog meat trade, aside from being a despicably cruel business, could never make a statistically meaningful impact. There are no easy answers in the face of the existing stray population in Thailand and their amazing birth-rate.

But if everyone who's complaining about the nuisance these animal create would support one of the animal welfare organizations who conduct sterilization programs in their area, real progress could be made, one neighborhood at a time.

And yes, I know what I'm talking about, having spent several years working for an animal welfare NGO.

Whereas sterilisation may work if well funded - and it is not cheap - the dog population requires food......cut their access to food and the population will dwindle, add to this sterilisation and the results will be quicker.

It seems to me that people frequently don't consider the various ways these animals get sustenance, and how many dogs can be supported in a given area with the food available. All animal populations find a natural level dictated by available food per each area and predation. Dogs have few real predators in an urban environment

There are many sources of food for these dogs - garbage etc but i find it so saddening when I see people feeding dogs. i know they think they are doing a "good deed" and on an individual level they might be, but the effects it has on their community in the long run are dreadful......such a blinkered thing to do.

Sick dogs could be put down (out of their misery) but culling has never been nor ever will be an effective long term option.

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct - Feeding strays without sterilizing them only prolongs and multiplies the misery, as counterintuitive as that sounds.

Unlike the people who do nothing but bitch about the strays in their neighborhood, or the ones want to have them carted off and eaten, I get as many as possible sterilized. Luckily I have a few neighbors here who "get it" and help. Result = a nice, healthy and stable population of dogs who hold their territory against intruders. That's the best you can hope for. Because, if I were to remove these dogs (or kill them), the space would be filled by new ones in days.

So if you really hate the sight of dogs, Thailand is definitely the wrong country to settle down in!

Edited November 9, 201213 yr by fstarbkk

If one unneutered dog can service many females surely neutering the dog rather than many bitches would be a more effective way to reduce the number of puppies. And as far as Thai dogs go I don't see them migrating much. I see the same dogs and bitches in the same place year after year. With no links to studies given I'll stick with my choice of "fix the boys".

No problem Keesters. I'm not here to sell you anything. Just sharing some facts and knowledge here, acquired during 8 years working with international and local animal welfare organizations. I'm sure you know better though...

Never said I know better. I was just sharing my opinions and observations gained through 20+ years of living in Thailand and having to deal with Soi dogs. I haven't quoted studies then failed to back them up with links.

Dear fellow members,sometimes I am really surprised(astonished,shocked)about some of the quotes here... Pls do your home work-if you have any problems with biting soy dogs,call the tessabhan and they take care of it.how do you can expect from people who don't take responsibility of their spouses,kids,environment,traffic laws,jobs....to take responsibility of a dog????animal rights don't apply here as many other laws,but c'mon it's their country,so take it or leave it...ps.:my favorite quote was about the second world war-pls realize the (European)war is over and Thailand is not in a war right know....

You sir have obviously never had to deal with a corrupt tessabhan. They are not interested in fixing the stray dog problem, they are only interested in where their next new car comes from. Thais may also not responsible to their spouses, kids, environment, traffic laws, jobs etc. but none of that makes it OK and those things are not what this thread is about.

I was invited here? Haven't you seen all the international advertising about the "Land of Smiles" etc. inviting us to come visit. So now I'm here you say I have no rights and should leave. Well I think it is your apathetic attitude that should leave. Isn't it a right of everyman to try and make things the best that he can not only for himself but for others. I know many Thais who are as fed up with soi dogs as I and many farang like me are. But they too know that the tessabhan will do nothing. Heck even the animal rights organizations do almost nothing. But none of that too should stop us from having our say here. And your "it's their country,so take it or leave it" is such a well worn cliche used and defeated so many times on this forum I can't believe that you even tried to use it. When it comes to doing home work may I suggest you try Social Studies starting with the chapter on "Being a Human Being".

Nong Prue Amphur do have staff that will respond to complaints about dogs in the Moo Baan. The catch is they require agreement from a few Thais in the Moo Baan that they are a nuisance. The Thais agree in conversation they are annoying but will not confirm with the Moo Baan people when they visit. They take the Thai approach & poison the dogs when they run out of patience. This has happened to a few dogs owned by foreigners who let their dogs out of the house to wander the area pissing, defecating and triggering constant barking from the other dogs.

Edited November 10, 201213 yr by simple1

Nong Prue Amphur do have staff that will respond to complaints about dogs in the Moo Baan. The catch is they require agreement from a few Thais in the Moo Baan that they are a nuisance. The Thais agree in conversation they are annoying but will not confirm with the Moo Baan people when they visit. They take the Thai approach & poison the dogs when they run out of patience. This has happened to a few dogs owned by foreigners who let their dogs out of the house to wander the area pissing, defecating and triggering constant barking from the other dogs.

Those dog owning foreigners are about as stupid as the Thais who won't backup their complaints with the Moo Baan people. Dogs should be kept behind a closed gate. When they need exercise take them out for a leashed walk or to a deserted beach/field for a run. Pick up any poop disposing of it properly when you get back home. Any dog, Thai or Farang owned, seen wandering the streets, pissing and defecating everywhere, is free game for the dog catchers/nappers.

If you can't be bothered to act responsibly towards your dog then you shouldn't have one. You all know it makes sense and just because you can "get away with it" here is no excuse to act that way.

I cannot confirm, that there are significantly more dogs (on the roads) nor,

that it is more dangerous to walk, or drive in my villages I stay in,

Well I can confirm that where I live there are (significantly more dogs (on the roads)) and that it is more dangerous to walk, or drive. 24 years ago when I moved into my current house everyone said why are you moving SO FAR out of the city. Now this area is considered city center. With many apartment buildings, hotels, condos, shops etc. having been built in the last 24 years the population of the street I would guess has increased 10 fold. 10 times more people means more garbage for the dogs to feed upon and more Thais who offer food to the street dogs as merit making. Result far more dogs. Dogs that chase each other up and down the street and in the traffic resulting in more traffic accidents than before. It stands to reason as people have said here dogs control their own population depending on food supply. Food supply increased = dog population increased. What may have been a pleasant rural area with just a few stray dogs has now become a mad house urban city area with a huge number of dogs. No one can say that that is OK. I can live with the increase in people but not the dogs. And why should I? They city is built to house and give places to work for people NOT dogs. Dogs behind a closed gate, fine, but dogs running around freely in the street, pissing and defecating everywhere for Mr. Joe Public to step in or for small children to pick up is not fine.

Edited November 10, 201213 yr by Keesters

Cant beat a bit of Dog Kebab

Cant beat a bit of Dog Kebab

In Viet Nam, vendors sell something called a "Bonerkebab."

I don't even want to know what that is.

Too many dogs start theri life as a nice fluffy plaything.

When it gets older the poor animal is not fluffy any more, and will be chucked out of the house

Then a new fluffy plaything is bought, spray-painted or not, and history repeats itself.

Very sorry for all those poor animals, but in very many araes of the country the dog population is getting a problem.

There are so many dogs running wild now that animal welfare stations, or private organisations, could never cope with the numbers.

Many dogs lead an awful life, are sick, and not taken care of in any way.

Maybe, just maybe, the dog population is now so huge culling might be the only solution.

I hate to say this, but I could not think of any other solution.

And because of the silly people taking a fluffy plaything every time, the culling gets more important.

Yes, the fluffy gets kicked out when it gets puffy, then they become roaming wild dogs that hang around in large numbers in the streets urinating and defecating all around, the resulting foul smell will saturate the entire neighbourhood and creating harmful bacteria that attracts many insects in large numbers, and they spread the bacteria all around.

It is well known that canine excrement is very toxic and harmful to public health, and the noise of barking dogs is a recognized public nuisance, the bitches carry on consistently with breeding, thus is is an essential requirement that owners control their dogs.

In order to achieve this it must be legally implemented and controlled by local councils.

< controlled by local councils>

555555555555555555

Our local council won't even replace the broken drain covers in the road, allowing people to drive into them.

i don't know what the majority of people are on on this post but I cannot believe the inhumane comments that are posted. These - and all other - dogs have a right to life. Yes, there are many dogs in thailand without homes but those that are scared of them (as so many of you seem to be) it is quite simple to deal with them. If a dog or dogs approach you, just your arms wide and make yourselves as big as possible (accept that egos here might be bigger than stature). If that doesn't work, kneel down as if to throw a stone and the dog(s) will retreat (just to be clear as obviously it's an uneducated audience on this thread - no need to throw the stone) . Sad that that is the way to deal with dogs here but that is how it is. Be assured I am not some animal rights do gooder - I have been a corporate CEO of some of the largest corporations where I have on my conscience that not everything I sanctioned was good for the environment but given the dogs that are here, surely they have a right to live - not be smuggled across borders in terrible conditions to be consumed? enough die in Thailand through natural - or unnatural causes - which is the process of evolution, but this is just plain accessory to murder to animals that have no defence

You OBVIOUSLY do not live in a Thai town!

If that is how you feel, what are you going to do about it?

If one unneutered dog can service many females surely neutering the dog rather than many bitches would be a more effective way to reduce the number of puppies. And as far as Thai dogs go I don't see them migrating much. I see the same dogs and bitches in the same place year after year. With no links to studies given I'll stick with my choice of "fix the boys".

No problem Keesters. I'm not here to sell you anything. Just sharing some facts and knowledge here, acquired during 8 years working with international and local animal welfare organizations. I'm sure you know better though...

Never said I know better. I was just sharing my opinions and observations gained through 20+ years of living in Thailand and having to deal with Soi dogs. I haven't quoted studies then failed to back them up with links.

I don't recall signing anything with TV or you, that obliges me to take time out supply you with links to back up my statements. As such I don't recognize any "failure" to do anything. If you are genuinely interested in the issue, you're welcome to do your own research and educate yourself on the subject.

However, if you're just interested in a p***ing contest, just keep arguing with people who allready gave years to learn about and act on the issue in question.

What a difference a year of TLC makes.....

What a difference a year of TLC makes.....

Yes, now it can lick it's own genitals before licking your face!

Edited November 10, 201213 yr by cowslip

as the standard of living in Thailand improves - and believe it or not education - expectations of the middle classes rise - this in the end will result in growing disgust with the "stray" dog problem.....and eventually it will become unacceptable, which is the case in other countries - in fat I can't think of any fully developed country that has a similar dog problem

Let me first say that I love dogs.

However, packs of stray dogs are a problem: the culling of the dogs does of course solve the problem of vicious packs.

Culling the dogs in a manner where they are put to use as food rather than burnt also seems sensible.

Why though do these dogs have to be transported in such conditions, crammed into cages where they can often not stand or barely move. The photo here seems to show one of the more roomy and humane dog collector trucks that have been featured in similar news stories over time. I can only imagine the cruel way in which they dogs are slaughtered at the other end of their journey.

Well I can confirm that where I live there are (significantly more dogs (on the roads)) and that it is more dangerous to walk, or drive. 24 years ago when I moved into my current house everyone said why are you moving SO FAR out of the city. Now this area is considered city center.

Ok, different pair of shoes, i stay in the countryside in villages with only 1000- 2000 people. I never see or smell dog pee or feces.

There is much place where the dogs can do that without I can easy recognize that.

Dogs are always on the roads, most houses have no fence and they sometimes shout, also in the night, but I not care,

I like dogs and most dogs, wherever, at a Falangs place I visit first time, beach dogs, road dogs, or at a Parking lot when the time allows it approach me,

lay down near or beside me, they seem to feel the connection.

If the possibility arises a few left overs or bones, change into the dogs stomach.

My mother raised me to love animals, especially dogs. How can you jump the shadow your deceased Mam blessed you with?

Edited November 10, 201213 yr by ALFREDO

Good points. However, in reality spaying females is more effective for a number of reasons. Male dogs tend to be migratory and even one unneutered male can "service" many females in a large area, and in a short period of time. Those females can each produce several litters a year, who then in turn will have litters of their own.

Females are more territorial and once a majority (say 70%) of the females in a given neighborhood are sterilized, the population in that area will stagnate or decline, as studies have shown.

If one unneutered dog can service many females surely neutering the dog rather than many bitches would be a more effective way to reduce the number of puppies. And as far as Thai dogs go I don't see them migrating much. I see the same dogs and bitches in the same place year after year. With no links to studies given I'll stick with my choice of "fix the boys".

Sure, neutering the dogs would solve the problem. As long as EVERY dog is neutered.

A single un-neutered male would service every bitch that comes into season in the area.

Dogs are territorial, but with a sniff of a bitch in season, they will move around.

Good points. However, in reality spaying females is more effective for a number of reasons. Male dogs tend to be migratory and even one unneutered male can "service" many females in a large area, and in a short period of time. Those females can each produce several litters a year, who then in turn will have litters of their own.

Females are more territorial and once a majority (say 70%) of the females in a given neighborhood are sterilized, the population in that area will stagnate or decline, as studies have shown.

If one unneutered dog can service many females surely neutering the dog rather than many bitches would be a more effective way to reduce the number of puppies. And as far as Thai dogs go I don't see them migrating much. I see the same dogs and bitches in the same place year after year. With no links to studies given I'll stick with my choice of "fix the boys".

Sure, neutering the dogs would solve the problem. As long as EVERY dog is neutered.

A single un-neutered male would service every bitch that comes into season in the area.

Dogs are territorial, but with a sniff of a bitch in season, they will move around.

Bitches can be neutered too you know.

i believe there is some form of contraception too........

Edited November 11, 201213 yr by cowslip

Well I can confirm that where I live there are (significantly more dogs (on the roads)) and that it is more dangerous to walk, or drive. 24 years ago when I moved into my current house everyone said why are you moving SO FAR out of the city. Now this area is considered city center.

Ok, different pair of shoes, i stay in the countryside in villages with only 1000- 2000 people. I never see or smell dog pee or feces.

There is much place where the dogs can do that without I can easy recognize that.

Dogs are always on the roads, most houses have no fence and they sometimes shout, also in the night, but I not care,

I like dogs and most dogs, wherever, at a Falangs place I visit first time, beach dogs, road dogs, or at a Parking lot when the time allows it approach me,

lay down near or beside me, they seem to feel the connection.

If the possibility arises a few left overs or bones, change into the dogs stomach.

My mother raised me to love animals, especially dogs. How can you jump the shadow your deceased Mam blessed you with?

perhps a bit of common sense and respect for your environment in place of the sentimentality?

Edited November 11, 201213 yr by cowslip

Let me first say that I love dogs.

However, packs of stray dogs are a problem: the culling of the dogs does of course solve the problem of vicious packs.

Culling the dogs in a manner where they are put to use as food rather than burnt also seems sensible.

Why though do these dogs have to be transported in such conditions, crammed into cages where they can often not stand or barely move. The photo here seems to show one of the more roomy and humane dog collector trucks that have been featured in similar news stories over time. I can only imagine the cruel way in which they dogs are slaughtered at the other end of their journey.

"the culling of the dogs does of course solve the problem of vicious packs." - no "of course" about it - it doesn't - it provides at best, temporary respite.

Edited November 11, 201213 yr by cowslip

Let me first say that I love dogs.

However, packs of stray dogs are a problem: the culling of the dogs does of course solve the problem of vicious packs.

Culling the dogs in a manner where they are put to use as food rather than burnt also seems sensible.

Why though do these dogs have to be transported in such conditions, crammed into cages where they can often not stand or barely move. The photo here seems to show one of the more roomy and humane dog collector trucks that have been featured in similar news stories over time. I can only imagine the cruel way in which they dogs are slaughtered at the other end of their journey.

"the culling of the dogs does of course solve the problem of vicious packs." - no "of course" about it - it doesn't - it provides at best, temporary respite.

I should have been more specific I can see. Let me rephrase:

If you cull a particular pack of dogs, that pack of dogs is no longer in existence, hence you have solved the problem of that particular pack of dog.

If another pack of dogs forms, that then is another problem

Why stop them taking them?,,,,thy eat dog and those stray Thai dogs suck.

Well I can confirm that where I live there are (significantly more dogs (on the roads)) and that it is more dangerous to walk, or drive. 24 years ago when I moved into my current house everyone said why are you moving SO FAR out of the city. Now this area is considered city center.

Ok, different pair of shoes, i stay in the countryside in villages with only 1000- 2000 people. I never see or smell dog pee or feces.

There is much place where the dogs can do that without I can easy recognize that.

Dogs are always on the roads, most houses have no fence and they sometimes shout, also in the night, but I not care,

I like dogs and most dogs, wherever, at a Falangs place I visit first time, beach dogs, road dogs, or at a Parking lot when the time allows it approach me,

lay down near or beside me, they seem to feel the connection.

If the possibility arises a few left overs or bones, change into the dogs stomach.

My mother raised me to love animals, especially dogs. How can you jump the shadow your deceased Mam blessed you with?

perhps a bit of common sense and respect for your environment in place of the sentimentality?

as well as respect for the dogs and your neighbors.

Good points. However, in reality spaying females is more effective for a number of reasons. Male dogs tend to be migratory and even one unneutered male can "service" many females in a large area, and in a short period of time. Those females can each produce several litters a year, who then in turn will have litters of their own.

Females are more territorial and once a majority (say 70%) of the females in a given neighborhood are sterilized, the population in that area will stagnate or decline, as studies have shown.

If one unneutered dog can service many females surely neutering the dog rather than many bitches would be a more effective way to reduce the number of puppies. And as far as Thai dogs go I don't see them migrating much. I see the same dogs and bitches in the same place year after year. With no links to studies given I'll stick with my choice of "fix the boys".

Sure, neutering the dogs would solve the problem. As long as EVERY dog is neutered.

A single un-neutered male would service every bitch that comes into season in the area.

Dogs are territorial, but with a sniff of a bitch in season, they will move around.

Well of course it would require all male dogs to be neutered.

If one unneutered dog can service many females surely neutering the dog rather than many bitches would be a more effective way to reduce the number of puppies. And as far as Thai dogs go I don't see them migrating much. I see the same dogs and bitches in the same place year after year. With no links to studies given I'll stick with my choice of "fix the boys".

No problem Keesters. I'm not here to sell you anything. Just sharing some facts and knowledge here, acquired during 8 years working with international and local animal welfare organizations. I'm sure you know better though...

Never said I know better. I was just sharing my opinions and observations gained through 20+ years of living in Thailand and having to deal with Soi dogs. I haven't quoted studies then failed to back them up with links.

I don't recall signing anything with TV or you, that obliges me to take time out supply you with links to back up my statements. As such I don't recognize any "failure" to do anything. If you are genuinely interested in the issue, you're welcome to do your own research and educate yourself on the subject.

However, if you're just interested in a p***ing contest, just keep arguing with people who allready gave years to learn about and act on the issue in question.

While you may be correct about the requirements of TV, but I think you'll find it a generally accepted principle here (I'll not give you links as you feel they are not necessary ) that if you're going to quote studies then links to those studies be given. Failure to do so certainly makes me not believe what has been written and consider it bullshit...

Good points. However, in reality spaying females is more effective for a number of reasons. Male dogs tend to be migratory and even one unneutered male can "service" many females in a large area, and in a short period of time. Those females can each produce several litters a year, who then in turn will have litters of their own.

Females are more territorial and once a majority (say 70%) of the females in a given neighborhood are sterilized, the population in that area will stagnate or decline, as studies have shown.

If one unneutered dog can service many females surely neutering the dog rather than many bitches would be a more effective way to reduce the number of puppies. And as far as Thai dogs go I don't see them migrating much. I see the same dogs and bitches in the same place year after year. With no links to studies given I'll stick with my choice of "fix the boys".

Sure, neutering the dogs would solve the problem. As long as EVERY dog is neutered.

A single un-neutered male would service every bitch that comes into season in the area.

Dogs are territorial, but with a sniff of a bitch in season, they will move around.

Bitches can be neutered too you know.

i believe there is some form of contraception too........

Bitches are spayed...but I understand what you mean. As for contraception, like neutering or spaying, who does it and who pays? Local authorities don't seem interested, never seen any animal rights people down my way, local residents refuse to accept ownership or responsibility even though they feed the dogs each day.

Why? It is better that someone eats them than they continue to infest the streets of Thailand. I have to take pepper spray with me when I go out on the bicycle late at night because of the soi dogs... I wish that someone would eat more of them.