Sukampol Welcomes Court Showdown With Abhisit: Forgery Charge

[webfact]

FORGERY CHARGE

Sukampol welcomes court showdown with opposition leader

Panya Thiosangwan,

Atapoom Ongkulna,

Olan Lertrattanadamrongkul

The Nation

Minister defends decision to retroactively dismiss Abhisit from military; says it was based on false documents

BANGKOK: -- Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat yesterday shrugged off Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva's threat to sue him in the Central Administrative Court over a ministry committee's decision to strip Abhisit of the rank and salary given to him when he worked as military lecturer.

Sukampol said he was ready to explain his decision to endorse the ministry's decision to the court.

"It's good that Abhisit will file a suit with the Administrative Court," Sukampol said.

Abhisit said yesterday that his legal team was drafting a lawsuit to be sent to the Administrative Court because he regarded the decision to strip him of his rank as politically motivated.

Abhisit said the ministry committee had planned from the beginning to penalise him with the goal of undermining the Opposition's planned censure debate against the government.

"I've sent Sukampol a letter opposing the decision; it should reach him today. But he has signed an order to penalise me, so I will have to seek help from the Administrative Court," Abhisit said.

The committee set up by Sukampol concluded that Abhisit used falsified documents to apply for the position as a military lecturer, so it recommended stripping him of his military rank and salary retroactively.

The Defence Ministry would take action to dismiss Abhisit from military service retroactively, effective June 2, 1988, Sukampol said.

The minister said he would gradually issue the necessary orders to strip Abhisit of his rank, adding that the investigative panel had yet to calculate how much Abhisit would have to return to the state.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said Abhisit should take responsibility for the issue and show the appropriate spirit by resigning as an MP right away, now that the committee had found that he had committed an offence.

Meanwhile, Opposition chief whip Jurin Laksanawisit said yesterday the Opposition had submitted a motion of impeachment against Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and no-confidence debate motions targeting three individual ministers to House Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont.

Supported by 155 Democrat MPs and two MPs from the Rak Thailand Party, the Opposition proposes impeachment of Yingluck on grounds of malfeasance. It proposes that Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva replace Yingluck. The Opposition also proposed a censure debate against three of her Cabinet members. They are Sukampol, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung and Deputy Interior Minister Chatt Kuldiloke, Jurin said.

Jurin said 10-20 speakers had prepared information to scrutinise the PM and the ministers but would not reveal the speakers' names for the moment.

He said the reason Commerce Minister Boonsong Teriyapirom was not among the censure targets was that there was insufficient information to scrutinise him separately.

Asked what would happen if Yingluck asked Boonsong to clarify the government's rice-pledging scheme on her behalf, Jurin said that in principle, Yingluck should clarify the issue by herself.

Jurin said the Opposition was confident of providing checks and balances on the government.

However, it was up to the people to decide whether they would continue to place trust in the government, he said.

Cases of corruption or malfeasance raised in the debate will not die in Parliament if the Opposition loses the no-confidence votes, as they would be submitted to the National Anti-Corruption Commission and the impeachment process would continue, Jurin said.

If the NACC decides to indict someone, the case would be brought to the Senate, where a three-fifths vote would be needed for impeachment. The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders would handle related criminal cases.

The Constitution requires that cases against the premier be submitted to the NACC if key points in the censure debate against the leader involve corruption or malfeasance.

-- The Nation 2012-11-10

[rubl]

The Defence Ministry would take action to dismiss Abhisit from military service retroactively, effective June 2, 1988, Sukampol said.

24 years ago? I haven't been able to find anything on the Statute of Limitation applicable in cases like this. Anyone out here with a decent pointer?

[Thai at Heart]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

[thaicbr]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

If a government dept gave you documents would you know they were real or not... you would presume real..yes

sent from my Q6

[rixalex]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

Indeed. Abhisit hasn't handled this at all well. I guess from that point of view, PTPs goal has been achieved, whatever the outcome. Problem going forward for PTP is they are setting a precedent. If the Dems have anything about them (debatable i know) they will right this second have a team working day and night through each and every PTP politician to weed out all those with paperwork issues dating back over the last 30 years. They should have no problem uncovering all sorts of dirt on the vast majority, whether it be to do with dodged conscription or anything else.. whether they can make it stick, whether they get kicked to the curb with multiple defamation suits, is of course another matter, but what really do they have to lose at this point?

[bigbamboo]

Faking documents to dodge this or deny that is a Thai thing.

I doubt if there's a Thai politician in captivity (or on the run) who hasn't cheated in this regard.

[Thai at Heart]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

If a government dept gave you documents would you know they were real or not... you would presume real..yes

sent from my Q6

It isn't a particularly common occurrence for foreigners to get into positions to get fake documents. But considering the guy went to Oxford for a PPE degree, I think he should have the nous to know whether he is entitled to a document or not. This type of thing is "fixed" all the time for a small gratuity or a favour owed later, it is the way it is.

Would I want my son to waste 2 years in national service? Not particularly. If offered a way to get him a cushier time or out of it, would I facilitate it, probably. Would I then try to squirm my way out of what I had done if my son wanted to become PM? Nope. Caught, red handed. So the moral of that one, would be to save any chance for my son to get into crap later in life, would be if it comes up, send him off to do his NATIONAL duty.

Doesn't change the fact that people generally KNOW that they have bent the system.

[h90]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

Indeed. Abhisit hasn't handled this at all well. I guess from that point of view, PTPs goal has been achieved, whatever the outcome. Problem going forward for PTP is they are setting a precedent. If the Dems have anything about them (debatable i know) they will right this second have a team working day and night through each and every PTP politician to weed out all those with paperwork issues dating back over the last 30 years. They should have no problem uncovering all sorts of dirt on the vast majority, whether it be to do with dodged conscription or anything else.. whether they can make it stick, whether they get kicked to the curb with multiple defamation suits, is of course another matter, but what really do they have to lose at this point?

I don't know why Democrats let people like Abhisit or Kasit to the top. No wonder they aren't popular. Of course the Democrats are 99% cleaner than PTP, but if they want to promote themself as clean, they can't have such things happening.

He should step back like the BKK governor did.

[Buchholz]

The Defence Ministry would take action to dismiss Abhisit from military service retroactively, effective June 2, 1988, Sukampol said.

24 years ago? I haven't been able to find anything on the Statute of Limitation applicable in cases like this. Anyone out here with a decent pointer?

Due to it being two and half decades ago, the pointer rusted away.

.

[rixalex]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

Indeed. Abhisit hasn't handled this at all well. I guess from that point of view, PTPs goal has been achieved, whatever the outcome. Problem going forward for PTP is they are setting a precedent. If the Dems have anything about them (debatable i know) they will right this second have a team working day and night through each and every PTP politician to weed out all those with paperwork issues dating back over the last 30 years. They should have no problem uncovering all sorts of dirt on the vast majority, whether it be to do with dodged conscription or anything else.. whether they can make it stick, whether they get kicked to the curb with multiple defamation suits, is of course another matter, but what really do they have to lose at this point?

I don't know why Democrats let people like Abhisit or Kasit to the top. No wonder they aren't popular. Of course the Democrats are 99% cleaner than PTP, but if they want to promote themself as clean, they can't have such things happening.

He should step back like the BKK governor did.

Kasit i agree, for the divisiveness of his appointment, although at least one can say he was qualified for the job, which is a lot more than can be said of others, like the current FM.

Abhisit, despite all of this nonsense, is still ten times cleaner, ten times more eloquent, ten times smarter, than the vast majority of Thai politicians. Crucially though, he clearly hasn't been able to bring popularity to his party, so for that, he needs to go, although i'm just not sure who is the right man/woman to take over from him.

[Thai at Heart]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

Indeed. Abhisit hasn't handled this at all well. I guess from that point of view, PTPs goal has been achieved, whatever the outcome. Problem going forward for PTP is they are setting a precedent. If the Dems have anything about them (debatable i know) they will right this second have a team working day and night through each and every PTP politician to weed out all those with paperwork issues dating back over the last 30 years. They should have no problem uncovering all sorts of dirt on the vast majority, whether it be to do with dodged conscription or anything else.. whether they can make it stick, whether they get kicked to the curb with multiple defamation suits, is of course another matter, but what really do they have to lose at this point?

There must be mountain of stuff on just about all of them. They all own thousands of rai of land, and does anyone honestly believe that it was all legal. It really comes down to whether you can get anyone to corroborate the stories. I enjoy it when seriously dodgy people start throwing mud at people. Invariably some of it comes back on them. Good, it may clean up the house a bit. That said, you can basically say, that anyone with any money in this country finds a way for their kids to avoid national service in one way or another, and it does stink.

I have had 2 friends, one nabbed at his hotel room in Seoul, and another caught at immigration in Turkey passing through, who had avoided their respective country's national service. All they could do was call their employers and family to tell them "bye, bye" for a year or two. Its either compulsory or not, and avoiding it is fundamentally thumbing your nose at the flag.

So, good, that precedent appears to have been settled.

[Thai at Heart]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

Indeed. Abhisit hasn't handled this at all well. I guess from that point of view, PTPs goal has been achieved, whatever the outcome. Problem going forward for PTP is they are setting a precedent. If the Dems have anything about them (debatable i know) they will right this second have a team working day and night through each and every PTP politician to weed out all those with paperwork issues dating back over the last 30 years. They should have no problem uncovering all sorts of dirt on the vast majority, whether it be to do with dodged conscription or anything else.. whether they can make it stick, whether they get kicked to the curb with multiple defamation suits, is of course another matter, but what really do they have to lose at this point?

I don't know why Democrats let people like Abhisit or Kasit to the top. No wonder they aren't popular. Of course the Democrats are 99% cleaner than PTP, but if they want to promote themself as clean, they can't have such things happening.

He should step back like the BKK governor did.

Kasit i agree, for the divisiveness of his appointment, although at least one can say he was qualified for the job, which is a lot more than can be said of others, like the current FM.

Abhisit, despite all of this nonsense, is still ten times cleaner, ten times more eloquent, ten times smarter, than the vast majority of Thai politicians. Crucially though, he clearly hasn't been able to bring popularity to his party, so for that, he needs to go, although i'm just not sure who is the right man/woman to take over from him.

Get a new party would be my advice to him.

[rixalex]

Get a new party would be my advice to him.

My advice would be rather to take on a different role within the Dems, and take a break from leading the line, plenty of time for him to make a return to the top at some future point.

[scorecard]

They really are dragging Abhisit down to their level aren't they. He knows whether the docs are real or not, but I notice, he doesn't bother to say so in the article, other than to say it is politically motivated.

Indeed. Abhisit hasn't handled this at all well. I guess from that point of view, PTPs goal has been achieved, whatever the outcome. Problem going forward for PTP is they are setting a precedent. If the Dems have anything about them (debatable i know) they will right this second have a team working day and night through each and every PTP politician to weed out all those with paperwork issues dating back over the last 30 years. They should have no problem uncovering all sorts of dirt on the vast majority, whether it be to do with dodged conscription or anything else.. whether they can make it stick, whether they get kicked to the curb with multiple defamation suits, is of course another matter, but what really do they have to lose at this point?

Indeed, it would be easy enough to get some very big dirt on many of the PT folks including those very close to the top.

[Siripon]

If a Thai graduates with a bachelor or master's degree abroad,on returning to Thailand he can apply to serve for only 6 months military service rather than the 2 years conscripts serve, as an alternative to drawing lots for a possible 2 years.

Apisit did that and was appointed a lecturer at the military college in Nakhon Nayok where he taught for 6 months.

So what has he done wrong?

[khunken]

If a Thai graduates with a bachelor or master's degree abroad,on returning to Thailand he can apply to serve for only 6 months military service rather than the 2 years conscripts serve, as an alternative to drawing lots for a possible 2 years.

Apisit did that and was appointed a lecturer at the military college in Nakhon Nayok where he taught for 6 months.

So what has he done wrong?

Probably nothing. Remember this minister set up a committee to find Abhisit guilty. He tried to jump the gun a month or so ago & shot himself in the foot. Now he has the 'verdict' he is carrying out his orders (from you know who). It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Dems need to prepare a Chalerm-like barking dog as a replacement, just in case.

[ratcatcher]

If a Thai graduates with a bachelor or master's degree abroad,on returning to Thailand he can apply to serve for only 6 months military service rather than the 2 years conscripts serve, as an alternative to drawing lots for a possible 2 years.

Apisit did that and was appointed a lecturer at the military college in Nakhon Nayok where he taught for 6 months.

So what has he done wrong?

Probably nothing. Remember this minister set up a committee to find Abhisit guilty. He tried to jump the gun a month or so ago & shot himself in the foot. Now he has the 'verdict' he is carrying out his orders (from you know who). It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Dems need to prepare a Chalerm-like barking dog as a replacement, just in case.

"You ain't nuthin' but a hound dog, barkin' all the time!"

[khunken]

If a Thai graduates with a bachelor or master's degree abroad,on returning to Thailand he can apply to serve for only 6 months military service rather than the 2 years conscripts serve, as an alternative to drawing lots for a possible 2 years.

Apisit did that and was appointed a lecturer at the military college in Nakhon Nayok where he taught for 6 months.

So what has he done wrong?

Probably nothing. Remember this minister set up a committee to find Abhisit guilty. He tried to jump the gun a month or so ago & shot himself in the foot. Now he has the 'verdict' he is carrying out his orders (from you know who). It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The Dems need to prepare a Chalerm-like barking dog as a replacement, just in case.

"You ain't nuthin' but a hound dog, barkin' all the time!"

Yes, Chuwit would be a good standby. They would have a real no-holds barred slanging match about their respective skeletons in the closet.

[animatic]

Abhisit teaching at the Military Academy would have been

a much better use of him in service to his country than as a foot soldier.

The country got fair value for his service, better than most.

This is a political witch hunt pure and simple, and there is unlikely to be

ANY Thai politician that could indefinitely withstand a 30 year

micro background search by a large budgeted committee

intent on finding ANYTHING THEY CAN.

And the Defense minister is clearly biased as he is an appointee of the ones

who want Abhisit keel hauled by any means necessary.

Yes, let's see this go to Administrative Court.