Job In Thailand , What To Expect ?

[paulthetool]

hi all , i have a job interview for a british company operating a large factory in thailand , the role im going for is a permanent position , engineering manager in charge of a production line , im a verteran of 12 years travelling to thailand and speak fluent thai and have worked there on and off doing very low key part time jobs for short periods , what can i reasonably ask for, or expect to be offered by my prospective employer , what is commonly offered to brit engineering managers in the thai manufacturing sector, any advise would be welcomed

[Chittychangchang]

I would seriously give consideration to being treated like a spanner Paul the tool.

[cooked]

Ask for the same wage as you would get in the UK. Most of us feel that ฿100 000.- a month is a lot, even in Bangkok.

[GuestHouse]

Before you go to the interview try to make a firm decision on what level of renumeration you want and at what level you will walk away from the offer.

As suggested above starting with a minimum of what you would receiving back home would be a sensible start.

But you should also have an idea of the total leave entitlement you expect, health insurance. transport and living expenses.

Right up front you need to be assured that you will have a contract of employment and that the company shall provide you with the correct visa and work permit.

Get these things sorted in your own mind before the interview and as I said get your 'walk level' set.

If you don't you'll be subject to a bargaining process with you accepting whatever they feel they can get away with.

[GuestHouse]

Oh and make sure you know how many hours you will be working. I have a number of expat friends who work for international company manufacturing sites here, they work horrendous hours.

You don't say you have done this work before, if not seriously consider declining now.

[mogandave]

Do not ask about hours, or vacation or perks and benefits. Ask about the job.

Do not offer- up a minimum, or that is what they will offer.

You need to have a number, but it is important to make sure that the understand it is negotiable, depending on what other benefits are included. Look at some websites for an idea of a number.

Don't get caught up asking or fretting about contracts and job security, it makes you sound like you are planning on getting fired before you are even hired.

Negotiate contract issues, benefits and overtime after they make an offer.

The discussion should be all about how excited you are about the company, and how and why you are perfect for the job, not about how much they can do for you.

[lemoncake]

Interview in Thailand is no different than back home, come prepared , on time and well presented.

I would not be stating amount you want for 2 reasons

1. You might be uderselling yourself, and they were happy to pay more

2. You might be over shooting and asking for more than they happy to pay

Make them make you an offer. Simply state that you understand your position and happy to consider any offer company makes as you know you need to prove yourself first. This indicates to any employee that you willing to work and they also understand you will not work for peanuts.

If i was in your shoes, i would be seeking somewhere around 100K per month, because this is what locals get

If company was to bring someone from UK, they would have to pay UK wage, plus relocation costs and much much more, so

Do not accept peanuts because Thai work culture is long hours and industry you in also has many many problems, with which you would need to deal day and night.

Make sure package includes: visa, wp, 1 flight home, rental allowance

If skilled teachers can get 100k per month, i do not see a problem an engineer getting same if not more, let us know how you go

[chrisinchaam]

Working in Thailand will be frustrating you need endless patients and never take anything for granted and just because a staff member says yes it doesn't mean yes check and double check. Even if you speak in Thai don't expect your staff to understand you and when you go out for a dinner with your colleagues you'll be the one paying. It can be a good experience but nothing like working in the U.K. or other Western country.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Wow, what an unusual amount of sensible advice!

Yes, focus in the initial stage on selling yourself, certainly don't bring up any of the "so what's in it for me" aspect until you've started to get positive feedback, later the better, job security type terms last of all if at all, basically in practice you're "at will" here no matter what they might write in a contract.

If it the herding-cats role that is managing Thai workers, you will need to really highlight your cross-cultural understanding, patience combined with a firm hand etc, that's always by far the biggest challenge.

If you are in fact willing to work for peanuts, make sure you hide that eagerness or that's what you'll get. If that is in fact what they are offering and you're inclined to take it then negotiate (hard) for performance-based incentives that have a good upside based on stretch goals that they may not believe you can achieve - but get everything in writing.

Sometimes you have to compromise to get your foot in the door, and then of course your mission becomes to make yourself so indispensable that they'll be happy to throw more money at you even in the first year.

And yes be prepared to work crazy hours - don't bring up any indication of this being a problem until the very last stage of successful negotiations, and only then offhand "by the way I've heard that", could I have some assurance that I won't be asked to work more than say 60 hours a week on average? I understand during crisis situations etc etc.

Best of luck!

[Bangkokhatter]

It's a fine line between under-selling yourself and pricing yourself out of a job. Much depends on how much you want to come and work here.

I work for a German manufacturing company here in Thailand, though all manufacturing is done back in Germany and China and i worked for the same company back in the UK.

With hindsight i accepted too low a salary, but as such when i came there wasn't really a position and it was more of a trial, so no expat package as such but better than local. I think you will likely fall into the same position, they will know they won't get a foreigner accepting a Thai wage but I doubt they will want to pay an ex-pat type package.

As already mentioned once you are here for a time and proved yourself you will be in a better position to negotiate a better deal. Although I accepted too little my salary has improved, now am currently thinking of a strategy to improve it much more...maybe i should start another thread.

[chrisinth]

As it is a British company, is the job based on an ex-pat package or is it local employment?

That is an extremely important question..................

Edit: If it is a local employment position, you may be able to include some of the ex-pat package perks into it. Just a thought.

Just seen Bangkokhatter's post, beat me to it!!

Edited November 15, 2012 by chrisinth

[Soutpeel]

If company was to bring someone from UK, they would have to pay UK wage, plus relocation costs and much much more, so

Make sure package includes: visa, wp, 1 flight home, rental allowance

This is what I cant figure out with this OP...for someone who has12 year experience and is interviewing for what appears to be a senior position, he has no idea about the amount of money he should be getting as salary !

What is the international going rate for this job as an average ?....this is your minimum, Plus all your other bits added, uplift, medical, pension etc etc....I can never understand why people coming to specifically work in Thailand are prepared to take lower money than they would expect to get elsewhere...

[Soutpeel]

but nothing like working in the U.K. or other Western country.

Worked here 11 years and not that different from anywhere else I have worked over the years...

[Soutpeel]

Most of us feel that ฿100 000.- a month is a lot, even in Bangkok.

.......THB100k/m is not even close to a lot, even in BKK....this guy is taking a job as what appears to be an expat engineering manager....one would expect a base/starting rate of THB 300k/m net + all the other perks minimum.

[chrisinth]

If company was to bring someone from UK, they would have to pay UK wage, plus relocation costs and much much more, so

Make sure package includes: visa, wp, 1 flight home, rental allowance

This is what I cant figure out with this OP...for someone who has12 year experience and is interviewing for what appears to be a senior position, he has no idea about the amount of money he should be getting as salary !

Think he means he has been travelling to Thailand for 12 years, as in the extract from the OP:

"im a verteran of 12 years travelling to thailand and speak fluent thai and have worked there on and off doing very low key part time jobs for short periods"

Agree fully that he should do a bit more research than asking a forum especially as it appears to be a fairly senior position.

[SiameseCurios]

If company was to bring someone from UK, they would have to pay UK wage, plus relocation costs and much much more, so

Make sure package includes: visa, wp, 1 flight home, rental allowance

This is what I cant figure out with this OP...for someone who has12 year experience and is interviewing for what appears to be a senior position, he has no idea about the amount of money he should be getting as salary !

This thread seems wrong.

Why has the OP not discussed these issues with the incumbent?

And if the position is new (ie, the job has only just been created), surely it would be more beneficial to discuss the posting with other company staff already working here in Thailand.

If I were working at IBM's New York office and got offered the chance to transfer to their Sydney office, I would discuss things with my colleagues in NYC and Sydney. These people (rather than anonymous strangers on an internet forum) would be far more "in the know" regarding company culture, expat packages and working conditions.

Edited November 15, 2012 by SiameseCurios

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It's all well and good to talk about being relocated when you're already employed internationally but that scenario's not relevant here. And obviously if the OP could contact insiders with better information he would, but most likely that would be difficult to manage and may in fact bounce back on him as being underhanded.

Most employers with offices here know just how many thousands of well-qualified professionals would give their eye teeth to work here and supply and demand rule the market these days not abstract principles.

If those hiring have any inkling at all the applicant actually wants to live in Thailand rather than considering it a hardship they will of course take advantage of that fact.

And it's not as if such a position actually requires a fully-imported expat, there may be reasons why they aren't recruiting a Thai for the position but those reasons may not justify paying more than double or triple what that would cost.

Paul, if you're highly motivated to come and work in Thailand then IMO don't listen to those who come from such unusually fortunately circumstances where they can afford to tell potential employers "take it or leave it".

You're aware of what kind of cost of living you'd be comfortable with here, set your firm bottom-line minimum you'll accept in your own mind and if forced to put an initial salary request out there, put it at say 3/4 or 2/3 of what these guys are talking about, most likely double your secret minimum

But if at all possible put the ball in their court to make the initial offer, and be ready to scoff at it as a first response if it looks like they're taking advantage of your desire to live here.

You should of course know their expectations wrt working hours and vacation time other perks before getting down to brass tacks on the salary issue, they may have more flexibility on one over the other.

[simple1]

If company was to bring someone from UK, they would have to pay UK wage, plus relocation costs and much much more, so

Make sure package includes: visa, wp, 1 flight home, rental allowance

This is what I cant figure out with this OP...for someone who has12 year experience and is interviewing for what appears to be a senior position, he has no idea about the amount of money he should be getting as salary !

This thread seems wrong.

Why has the OP not discussed these issues with the incumbent?

And if the position is new (ie, the job has only just been created), surely it would be more beneficial to discuss the posting with other company staff already working here in Thailand.

If I were working at IBM's New York office and got offered the chance to transfer to their Sydney office, I would discuss things with my colleagues in NYC and Sydney. These people (rather than anonymous strangers on an internet forum) would be far more "in the know" regarding company culture, expat packages and working conditions.

OP doesn't currently work for the company & it's quite risky approaching existing staff if he doesn't know if the role is to replace an existing member of the management team or if the role has been internally advertised etc. The OP would potentially be entering a minefield

[lovelaos]

Soutpeel is correct, starting, basic salary for an expat engineering management position is 300k a month but that is absolute basic. Insurance, private medical, schooling fees, repatriation costs, transportation plus performance bonuses are all thrown in on top.

[CWMcMurray]

As per the Adecco salary guide for Thailand...

page 16

Factory / Production Manager ... 60-150k per mo

Page 17

Operation Manager... 80-150k per mo

Plant manager ... 90-300k per mo

These are local salaries for Local hires (Thai's)

There are a lot more descriptions of various positions, so may be worth taking a look to see what would best fit the position

Also as this would be for an MNC, you should be able to safely negotiate on the higher side o the salary estimate without a problem

http://www.spu.ac.th/account/files/2012/02/Adecco-Thailand-Salary-Guide-2012.pdf

[mrtoad]

As a few people have said check out the details of whats actually on offer. It really isn't much different to working in the West when you work for a Foreign Owned company, however very important as always to have a clear job description, a proper contract and make sure that the company is going to obtain you a work permit. Details about monies, benefits etc should be negotiable, although as you say you are experienced in the area that you work in, then you should have an idea of what to expect and what to request. You really need to make sure that it's all nailed down and confirmed before you arrive, if it's lots of promises, but no hard evidence - steer clear. I am sure there are a few here that have probably had issues such as this. Good luck.

[canman]

Most of us feel that ฿100 000.- a month is a lot, even in Bangkok.

.......THB100k/m is not even close to a lot, even in BKK....this guy is taking a job as what appears to be an expat engineering manager....one would expect a base/starting rate of THB 300k/m net + all the other perks minimum.

My thoughts as well. 300K absolute minimum, house car and relocation package. Be aware you will be paying approx 24% tax as well, at least that was what I was paying when I left 2 years ago.

[Soutpeel]

Most of us feel that ฿100 000.- a month is a lot, even in Bangkok.

.......THB100k/m is not even close to a lot, even in BKK....this guy is taking a job as what appears to be an expat engineering manager....one would expect a base/starting rate of THB 300k/m net + all the other perks minimum.

My thoughts as well. 300K absolute minimum, house car and relocation package. Be aware you will be paying approx 24% tax as well, at least that was what I was paying when I left 2 years ago.

The other strange thing seeing as this is a British company, they are usually pretty up front as stating the expected salary band when talking on new staff..ie they will tell you salary they are prepared to pay will be be between X amount and Y amount well before an interview...this is certainly my experience

[tinfoilhat]

Most of us feel that ฿100 000.- a month is a lot, even in Bangkok.

.......THB100k/m is not even close to a lot, even in BKK....this guy is taking a job as what appears to be an expat engineering manager....one would expect a base/starting rate of THB 300k/m net + all the other perks minimum.

agreed, 100k pm is not alot at all.

12 years ago, it was a good wage, now, not so much.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

agreed, 100k pm is not alot at all.

12 years ago, it was a good wage, now, not so much.

12 years ago I would have sneered at it.

These day's I'd be very very happy and so would the rest of my household.

[paulthetool]

hi all

many thnaks for the very good advice ill , inwardly digest everything and let you know how i get on after the interview on 2nd december in bkk , watch this space , there are some common themes among the posts i ve received back , all noted , many thanks

paulthetool

[manly100]

I always ask potential employees what their expected income is. Removes 90% of applicants as they will state a dream amount or a competitive amount. About 10% state a competitive amount, and then I look if their qualifications match the position. Now I'm down to about 2% of applicants. Then I look to see if their compatible with other staff. And then I'll have a group of applicants that look good. If the successful applicant stated an expected income half of what the position pays I will just tell the applicant their income will be double what they stated. It's not like I can pay them half as they will discover the discrepancies the moment they talk to another employee. Then I would need to start all over again. So find out what the competitive amount is for the job your looking to get, then you'll know if you want to take the next step. And 300'000 is a dream.

[lemoncake]

I always ask potential employees what their expected income is. Removes 90% of applicants as they will state a dream amount or a competitive amount. About 10% state a competitive amount, and then I look if their qualifications match the position. Now I'm down to about 2% of applicants. Then I look to see if their compatible with other staff. And then I'll have a group of applicants that look good. If the successful applicant stated an expected income half of what the position pays I will just tell the applicant their income will be double what they stated. It's not like I can pay them half as they will discover the discrepancies the moment they talk to another employee. Then I would need to start all over again. So find out what the competitive amount is for the job your looking to get, then you'll know if you want to take the next step. And 300'000 is a dream.

i assume from your post you do not have a business in Thailand. Only because after years of having one here i can tell you the following

1. I can never get enough staff, ie with any advert i run, i hardly get any response, so really do not have much of a choice

2. I most of the time advertise the salary, and on the application form also have the expected salary question, which is often answered 30%-40% above advertised salary

3. Since there are hardly any people applying for a job, as they say "beggers can not be choosers" so their qualifications almost always do not match. Especially when they change jobs every 1-2 months and happily advertise so.

All of my troubles may well be due to location and nature of my business but speaking to number of people, all seem to have same problem

PS. i am in hotel business and located in Pattaya

Edited November 15, 2012 by lemoncake

[BigJohnnyBKK]

i assume from your post you do not have a business in Thailand. Only because after years of having one here i can tell you the following

1. I can never get enough staff, ie with any advert i run, i hardly get any response, so really do not have much of a choice

2. I most of the time advertise the salary, and on the application form also have the expected salary question, which is often answered 30%-40% above advertised salary

3. Since there are hardly any people applying for a job, as they say "beggers can not be choosers" so their qualifications almost always do not match. Especially when they change jobs every 1-2 months and happily advertise so.

All of my troubles may well be due to location and nature of my business but speaking to number of people, all seem to have same problem

PS. i am in hotel business and located in Pattaya

The issues you're talking about seem to be related to hiring Thais at local rates, perhaps at the low end of what is competitive.

The OP topic relates to hiring foreigners are a position that at least sounds like a possibly "imported expat" position, totally different situation.

Then you have the "decent paying jobs for local resident foreigner" job market, which has more in common with the latter than the former, but yet a separate set of variables.

Especially with the last one, believe me you would have plenty of applicants for all but the most technically specialized jobs, and even for some of those.

For example "Native English speaker wanted for in-house corporate English teacher and Editor position, over THB 40k/mo" just advertised in the Bangkok Post would probably net over 500 applicants within 24 hours, thousands within the week.

PS You probably realize this, but recruiting upcountry by word of mouth would yield plenty of applicants for positions not requiring English. Thais already resident in that area are very spoiled compared to most of the rest of the country. For those positions requiring decent English you are probably underestimating how much you have to pay these days, the demand for that skill has been quickly accelerating past the local supply and that trend will continue.

[cheechoo]

dont expect much!

isnt the rule you should be employed and be sent to thailand to work? not get a job there. the employer holds all the cards.