Benz A Class Takes On Golf Gti, Scirocco, Bmw, Mini Cooper S Etc

[steveromagnino]

Seems Mercedes have finally unveiled the A class here at the prices

A180 1.6 litre slug 1.89m

A250 AMG sport 2 litre 2.49m

The AMG version doesn't get outstanding reviews, but that is a GREAT price for a decent Benz (the 1.6 litre doesn't quite make the cut as a hot hatch)... I am seriously considering it as that's not much coin at all. 0-100km in 6.4 sec is decent; has a 7 speed dual clutch; 18 inch rims; interior design that looks at least as good as anything else in class; slightly odd front bonnet line (Scirocco parts bin kind of a look)

http://www.mercedes-benz.co.th/content/thailand/mpc/mpc_thailand_website/enng/home_mpc/passengercars/home/new_cars/models/a-class/w176/facts_/technicaldata/models.html

As per normal Mercedes Thailand have done a lousy job of keeping their website up to date, has a bunch of broken links and so forth...not so surprising since it launched yesterday.

Gets great reviews as a luxury small hatch...not so great as a driver's car: certainly for that price it's hard to pass up!

http://www.topgear.com/uk/mercedes-benz/a-class/verdict

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercedes/a-class/59039/mercedes-a250-sport

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/first-drive-review-mercedes-a250-amg-sport

http://motoring.asiaone.com/Motoring/News/Story/A1Story20120806-363635.html

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/first-drive-review-mercedes-a250-amg-sport

[VocalNeal]

Regardless of income I cannot see myself spending $80,000 on an A-Class. I don't really have anyone I need to impress that much or feel I should pay the government any more tax than I do already.

Skoda is just down the street from me. If I need a small city car that does 0-100 in 6.6 secs I'll buy a Fabia vRS. Then I won't need to worry about it being stolen etc...hardly worth it.

I would add that we could wait for the A 45 but same logic holds, at least for me.

Edited November 22, 2012 by VocalNeal

[IMHO]

I'm with Steve on this one - finally a fresh face in the segment, and from a brand with a reasonable dealer network... Will definitely be test driving the A250, zero interest in the base model..

[IMHO]

Regardless of income I cannot see myself spending $80,000 on an A-Class. I don't really have anyone I need to impress that much or feel I should pay the government any more tax than I do already.

Skoda is just down the street from me. If I need a small city car that does 0-100 in 6.6 secs I'll buy a Fabia vRS. Then I won't need to worry about it being stolen etc...hardly worth it.

I would add that we could wait for the A 45 but same logic holds, at least for me.

The Fabia RS as sold in TH is about as fast as a 1.6L Fiesta with an exhaust and a chip... Different class of car... I don't have anything against VW era skoda as a whole, but in Thailand the dealer network sucks as much as the warranty (2 years) and the resale value - all up, not very confidence inspiring. Certainly not enough to get my baht..

As for making currency comparisons, that's a slippery slope.. You can only compare the cost against local competition, and IMHO it looks well positioned.. Not much more than a Lexus hatchback, about the same as the long in the tooth Mini and Scirocco, and again for the boring as bat shit Golf GTi...

Edited November 22, 2012 by IMHO

[VocalNeal]

Regardless of income I cannot see myself spending $80,000 on an A-Class. I don't really have anyone I need to impress that much or feel I should pay the government any more tax than I do already.

Skoda is just down the street from me. If I need a small city car that does 0-100 in 6.6 secs I'll buy a Fabia vRS. Then I won't need to worry about it being stolen etc...hardly worth it.

I would add that we could wait for the A 45 but same logic holds, at least for me.

The Fabia RS as sold in TH is about as fast as a 1.6L Fiesta with an exhaust and a chip... Different class of car... I don't have anything against VW era skoda as a whole, but in Thailand the dealer network sucks as much as the warranty (2 years) and the resale value - all up, not very confidence inspiring. Certainly not enough to get my baht..

Dealer network in Bangkok is fine. I never worry about resale, buy it because I want it get what I can when I sell. It's a car not a stock portfolio. I didn't spend a huge amount of time looking but that must be some hell of a chip for the Fiesta you found. I briefly looked at Ford Thailand and Fiesta 1.6 Sport is about 70hp down on the Skoda. That's before the Skoda gets its full warranty 25 hp boost and more than double the torque of the Ford.

Keep your baht, then the secret will be safe.

[transam]

I love Merc's, but alas no wonga. ...............................

[anon210]

Regardless of income I cannot see myself spending $80,000 on an A-Class. I don't really have anyone I need to impress that much or feel I should pay the government any more tax than I do already.

Skoda is just down the street from me. If I need a small city car that does 0-100 in 6.6 secs I'll buy a Fabia vRS. Then I won't need to worry about it being stolen etc...hardly worth it.

I would add that we could wait for the A 45 but same logic holds, at least for me.

Same here. From my European experience, Mercs are more known to me for sources of mechanical/electronic issues than as a quality car. No way I spend so much money, and on top of it for a lower-spec model.

No way to spend that much and get into a sea of trouble.

[IMHO]

Regardless of income I cannot see myself spending $80,000 on an A-Class. I don't really have anyone I need to impress that much or feel I should pay the government any more tax than I do already.

Skoda is just down the street from me. If I need a small city car that does 0-100 in 6.6 secs I'll buy a Fabia vRS. Then I won't need to worry about it being stolen etc...hardly worth it.

I would add that we could wait for the A 45 but same logic holds, at least for me.

The Fabia RS as sold in TH is about as fast as a 1.6L Fiesta with an exhaust and a chip... Different class of car... I don't have anything against VW era skoda as a whole, but in Thailand the dealer network sucks as much as the warranty (2 years) and the resale value - all up, not very confidence inspiring. Certainly not enough to get my baht..

Dealer network in Bangkok is fine. I never worry about resale, buy it because I want it get what I can when I sell. It's a car not a stock portfolio. I didn't spend a huge amount of time looking but that must be some hell of a chip for the Fiesta you found. I briefly looked at Ford Thailand and Fiesta 1.6 Sport is about 70hp down on the Skoda. That's before the Skoda gets its full warranty 25 hp boost and more than double the torque of the Ford.

Keep your baht, then the secret will be safe.

Any decent exhaust + chip combo from a known tuner puts the 1.6L Fiesta into the mid-7's - which is the same as the 1.4LTFSi Fabia RS sold in TH.

The Fabia is an ugly sod of a thing too

[IMHO]

Regardless of income I cannot see myself spending $80,000 on an A-Class. I don't really have anyone I need to impress that much or feel I should pay the government any more tax than I do already.

Skoda is just down the street from me. If I need a small city car that does 0-100 in 6.6 secs I'll buy a Fabia vRS. Then I won't need to worry about it being stolen etc...hardly worth it.

I would add that we could wait for the A 45 but same logic holds, at least for me.

Same here. From my European experience, Mercs are more known to me for sources of mechanical/electronic issues than as a quality car. No way I spend so much money, and on top of it for a lower-spec model.

No way to spend that much and get into a sea of trouble.

When it comes to lack of reliability, VW has to take the win on that one....

[VocalNeal]

Any decent exhaust + chip combo from a known tuner puts the 1.6L Fiesta into the mid-7's - which is the same as the 1.4LTFSi Fabia RS sold in TH.

The Fabia is an ugly sod of a thing too

Yes but the stock Fabia has a warranty, oh and in stock form it's low 7's. With a bit of dealer haggling one can get mid 6's. I've outgrown the boy racer look and the interior of the Fabia is Ok for me and as I don't sit on the outside, I could care less what that looks like.

Edited November 23, 2012 by VocalNeal

[steveromagnino]

I like the idea of the fabia RS, I like the price, and if the Polo GTI was here or the Fabia looked a little less grandma driving to the shops to pick up the milk, that would be what I would buy, as you can easily get it to 185HP or more here modified by MTM for around 2/3 the price of the A250; resale though here is an issue. A1 in same spec is around 2.8m and the VW Polo is around 2m but has a major issue for servicing since the legit importer (Thai Yarnyon) doesn't bring in the polo.

I really like the Scirocco, have done since it came out; in many ways fits the bill but as you say, it's getting on a little now, and while the golf 7 comes out next year (which was what I was lined up for unless I could wait until 2014) the Scirocco is 2014 for sure at the earliest.

Benz could be a nice fill in for a year or so, resale is so strong it would be fine to acquire and flick after 2 years.

Audi A3 doesn't really exist here; Fiesta and Focus er, not really in the same category (and also before he joins, neither is the Cruze ;_)

Depends on if Benz comes out with BSI equivalent now that VW has already (3 years no need to reach into your wallet for maintenance); I suspect they won't.

I don't really like doing 'grey' but would be interesting to see what the grey importers do with regards to the A class, whether they will carry or not.

Once you get used to spending reasonable money on Euro cars, then 2m, 3m it all starts to sound much the same. Sadly. Living in USA would get a 2nd hand cheap Maserati or something but over here, that's way more than 2-3m.

[frankphuket]

Absoutely welcome the arrival of the A250 sport, at least another option. Sure, it is arguable if it is that sporty compared to some of the others, especially the auto, but at the price is competes well agains a MINI Cooper S (which really looks rather overpriced against it) and even a Golf GTI.

it is a Benz, so resale should be better than others.

Not quite sure where someone here gets the idea that a chipped 1.6 Fiesta holds any chance of coming close to a Skoda vRS?? One is non turbo 1.6, the other one turbo+supercharger. In MTM chipped form (which you can negotiate as an extra FOC if you have negotiaion skills) has 205hp (if i remember correctly) and goes like stink. The regular one I tested wasn't far behind my Golf GTI.

My issue with the A250 would probably be the gearbox. Having driven my Golf GTI now for about 8 months, I like it, but i don't. It tuckers around in regular traffic in 6th gear at 50-60 km/h, than you want to double, you push your foot down....and ....a small wait, as the gearbox has to find the right gear and than a big shove, with a kick in your back. Not really all that smooth. yes, i know you can shift manual, but it is somehow not the same....I find myself more in regular mode. The S mode is just not really usable as it revs too high for regular usage. Wish they would have something in between.

From what i read the A250 gearbox is not better, rather worse than VW?

I probably see myself in a year or two going back manual...it is just so much more fun! and this is what hot hatches should be all about. The automated gearboxes just try to save fuel and make you drive slower and rather more 'relaxed' than you would with a stick.

Problem will be to find a nice car with a stick: Only coming to mind are: Citroen DS3 sport THP 150 and the Peugeot RCZ 200 THP.

Anyhow, thumbs up for the A250, I am all for more choices....keeps us occupied! and having more topics to annoy the Misses with....

[steveromagnino]

I spent the lunchtime working and reading reviews from What Car which slams the Benz in a major way (2 stars out of 5 vs. Golf GTI 5 stars, Scirrocco 4 stars, Audi A3 4 stars) for suspect gear changing, excessively harsh ride, excessive body roll. Big props to the Benz for interior, design but it is (according to that review) just not as polished as the Golf or Audi (who are both long term players in this segment).

Certainly makes the Mini a little more suspect; I actually get a great pleasure out of driving a proper manual rather than some slush box even though the DSG dual clutch you have in the golf GTI is supposedly the best out there and I quite liked it in the test drives...if the Benz is worse than that this would be a bit of a deal breaker for me as would the handling if it is as described in the reviews.

Definitely looks the part though.

I suspect someone is comparing a fully worked import fiesta like what you can get in USA apparently, but is not available here

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/03/2012-ford-fiesta-st-with-180ps-turbo.html

Looks very sweet, but the Skoda worked by MTM would still be quicker, just as the top of the line Golf/Scirocco etc are quicker than the worked focus (also not available here); sort of as you would expect for the price I guess.

Maybe you can adjust the programming in the gearbox with MTM, ABT or APR? Hard to say really, I still think the dual clutch is the best solution for inner city driving but still a 2nd place vs. a proper manual car with a few modifications as we have both done with our minis (and your golf as well).

[frankphuket]

I spent the lunchtime working and reading reviews from What Car which slams the Benz in a major way (2 stars out of 5 vs. Golf GTI 5 stars, Scirrocco 4 stars, Audi A3 4 stars) for suspect gear changing, excessively harsh ride, excessive body roll. Big props to the Benz for interior, design but it is (according to that review) just not as polished as the Golf or Audi (who are both long term players in this segment).

Certainly makes the Mini a little more suspect; I actually get a great pleasure out of driving a proper manual rather than some slush box even though the DSG dual clutch you have in the golf GTI is supposedly the best out there and I quite liked it in the test drives...if the Benz is worse than that this would be a bit of a deal breaker for me as would the handling if it is as described in the reviews.

Definitely looks the part though.

I suspect someone is comparing a fully worked import fiesta like what you can get in USA apparently, but is not available here

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/03/2012-ford-fiesta-st-with-180ps-turbo.html

Looks very sweet, but the Skoda worked by MTM would still be quicker, just as the top of the line Golf/Scirocco etc are quicker than the worked focus (also not available here); sort of as you would expect for the price I guess.

Maybe you can adjust the programming in the gearbox with MTM, ABT or APR? Hard to say really, I still think the dual clutch is the best solution for inner city driving but still a 2nd place vs. a proper manual car with a few modifications as we have both done with our minis (and your golf as well).

Indeed, the DSG is ok and surely makes stop and go easier to live with. Once you are on a more open road (which admittedly is hard to find in BKK) nothing beats a regular stick with short gear movement. Honestly, I still miss my Ford TDCI manual. It hard a great gearbox, good oomph, but lacked in interior flair.

The programming in the MTM remapped can't be adjusted. I can honestly say the vRS was quite a nice surprise, it did really well on my test drive, and once inside the interior did seem quite ok.

Have you ever tried the Citroen DS3 with 150 hp and manual gear. Read everywhere it is a nice drive....might miss some horses though...

[Fgis]

And what about the new C Class (C200) that will be launched in 2014 ?

Do you know which other class will be remodeled soon ? For a car of that price I prefer to buy one that is just launched and won't be redesigned before 10 years.

Also, any idea about how long is the queue here when buying a Benz newly launched car ?

Thanks.

[IMHO]

I suspect someone is comparing a fully worked import fiesta like what you can get in USA apparently, but is not available here

http://carscoop.blog...80ps-turbo.html

No need to go turbo to get the Fiesta 1.6L into the 7's - the (naturally aspirated) Mountune upgrade kits get there too - and they're only relatively mild (they're sold as official dealer-fitted and factory warrantied options in the UK) .

Other tuners in the UK & EU are getting even better naturally aspirated results, but in those cases, sans the factory warranty though...

[steveromagnino]

the induction kit gets you to 7.9 seconds (which is VERY impressive and way beyond what I thought you could that car to), which is still a fair gap to the Skoda vRS i standard form (7.3 sec) or a worked Skoda (MTM 6.6 sec).

Also, once you start putting any weight into the car, my guess is the gap will increase.

Not sure what is available here and what would void the warranty either.

FGIS typical Benz queue is around 3 months but can be more or less than this; the A is a brand new model now probably like this for 5-7 years with a mid life facelift and a few new variants including a proper 4WD AMG version. The current C will be replaced 2 years from now replacing the current model (which is a sort of facelifted mediumly major change mid life type deal from what I understand since beginning this year). In rest of class, Volvo various & BMW 3 are both already new models now around for the next 5-7 years although the 1 series is coming next year; VW has a new golf (looks same as before though or thereabouts) next year; Audi has the new A3 out now; Lexus has the all new IS250 coming next year; most of the rest are smaller brands. Mini Cooper S has a new model next year also based on the 1 series.

So....I think like you, buy the new model. Which means next year isn't too bad; Golf GTI (still to be seen but will be for sure an awesome car) or A class (great looks, great badge, less great reviews to date). The other option is wait another year for the Scirocco which is probably what I would actually want; however there's been almost nothing coming out about the Roc.

I like the mini I have (and the whole of the first generation R53s including of course the GP) but I personally think Mini has gone backwards with the R56 and if they revert to what I think they will, the next model will be another step towards mass luxury and not really a driver's car.

Audi is not well distributed here, and anyhow, the VW you get much the same stuff unless you can afford the RS3 which is well beyond our general price range of the other cars we are considering (1-3m).

[IMHO]

the induction kit gets you to 7.9 seconds (which is VERY impressive and way beyond what I thought you could that car to), which is still a fair gap to the Skoda vRS i standard form (7.3 sec) or a worked Skoda (MTM 6.6 sec).

The Mountune "MR155" Kit (click the tab on that same link) drops the 0-60mph to 7.5s without forced induction. Other tuners (Pumaspeed? - one of those bigger UK Ford tuners anyway) have kits that are in the very low 7's range (also naturally aspirated) and Ford Sweden have a dealer-option 4,000 Euro turbo based kit which gets it into the mid-6's.

My only point here is that I would be much happier to forego factory warranty and drive a pimped out, sub 1M Baht, 7 second Fiesta, rather than bearing the embarrassment of driving that fugly Skoda creation, which only has 2 years warranty to begin with (what the?), with about as much brand prestige as a cold war era Lada

Back to the topic, yes, the A250 appears to be a proper bargain in TH, and I'll be test driving at first opp'ty

Edited November 26, 2012 by IMHO

[frankphuket]

the induction kit gets you to 7.9 seconds (which is VERY impressive and way beyond what I thought you could that car to), which is still a fair gap to the Skoda vRS i standard form (7.3 sec) or a worked Skoda (MTM 6.6 sec).

The Mountune "MR155" Kit (click the tab on that same link) drops the 0-60mph to 7.5s without forced induction. Other tuners (Pumaspeed? - one of those bigger UK Ford tuners anyway) have kits that are in the very low 7's range (also naturally aspirated) and Ford Sweden have a dealer-option 4,000 Euro turbo based kit which gets it into the mid-6's.

My only point here is that I would be much happier to forego factory warranty and drive a pimped out, sub 1M Baht, 7 second Fiesta, rather than bearing the embarrassment of driving that fugly Skoda creation, which only has 2 years warranty to begin with (what the?), with about as much brand prestige as a cold war era Lada

Back to the topic, yes, the A250 appears to be a proper bargain in TH, and I'll be test driving at first opp'ty

Just setting record straight: the 'embarrassing' Skoda Fabia vRS has a 5 year full warranty, all incl.....better than most other manufacturers. And for those who haven't yet noticed....Skoda has come a really long way and it is now recognized in Germany as one of the big brands, selling huge and getting some of the Best customer satisfaction reports and professional reviews.

Agree that styling is something of an 'issue'....but I would rather drive one of those than a Ford Fiesta without any guarantee left, no idea where to repair those kits (if they go wrong).

[IMHO]

Just setting record straight: the 'embarrassing' Skoda Fabia vRS has a 5 year full warranty, all incl.....better than most other manufacturers.

They should probably update their website then...

[mogandave]

Just setting record straight: the 'embarrassing' Skoda Fabia vRS has a 5 year full warranty, all incl.....better than most other manufacturers.

They should probably update their website then...

Only if they want to sell them.

So in Germany once a car gets a reputation for high quality, they extend the warranty, interesting.

[frankphuket]

Just setting record straight: the 'embarrassing' Skoda Fabia vRS has a 5 year full warranty, all incl.....better than most other manufacturers.

They should probably update their website then...

Only if they want to sell them.

So in Germany once a car gets a reputation for high quality, they extend the warranty, interesting.

The warranty i was talking about was of course for Thailand. Some products get the 5 years full warranty: Superb, Fabia vRS and maybe another (not sure) the rest i believe get 3 year warranties.

This is from info i received at the dealers and on their handouts.

Now, Skoda Website Thailand: a MUST see....of how not to do a car website....there is hardly any relevant info on it, plus i believe it was last updated in 2011! They really are not helping themselves....! I did actually try to write them about it...with of course no reply.

The sales people in Bangkok however i found very knowledgable and professional (which is by far no given here in Thailand.)

Whish they would bring the YETI with the 2.0 TSI engine of the Golf GTI and 4wd to Thailand or the 2.0 TDI. IF they can make those available for under 2m Baht, I would buy one! Great lil buggers....

[funcat]

The specs of A 250 AMG Sport look pretty good...

A250Sport amg (Eng).pdf

[keemapoot]

And what about the new C Class (C200) that will be launched in 2014 ?

Do you know which other class will be remodeled soon ? For a car of that price I prefer to buy one that is just launched and won't be redesigned before 10 years.

Also, any idea about how long is the queue here when buying a Benz newly launched car ?

Thanks.

I like the current C250 CDI, but also think waiting for 2014 is probably smarter. I'm in no rush anyway.

[VocalNeal]

with about as much brand prestige as a cold war era Lada

I just had a quick look at the IRC standings. First three drivers in the championship are driving Skoda Fabia.

IRC stage wins in 2012:

Andreas Mikkelsen: 58 SKODA

Juho Hänninen: 29 SKODA

Jan Kopecký: 24 SKODA

Giandomenico Basso: 12 FORD

Not bad for a cold war Lada?

[anon210]

with about as much brand prestige as a cold war era Lada

I just had a quick look at the IRC standings. First three drivers in the championship are driving Skoda Fabia.

IRC stage wins in 2012:

Andreas Mikkelsen: 58 SKODA

Juho Hänninen: 29 SKODA

Jan Kopecký: 24 SKODA

Giandomenico Basso: 12 FORD

Not bad for a cold war Lada?

It could be considered as a low-prestige brand in Europe (actually it is a low-cost VW)... But in LOS, it is and remains an imported car, hence providing face (albeit at a lower degree than the compulsory BMW or Benz).

[frankphuket]

with about as much brand prestige as a cold war era Lada

I just had a quick look at the IRC standings. First three drivers in the championship are driving Skoda Fabia.

IRC stage wins in 2012:

Andreas Mikkelsen: 58 SKODA

Juho Hänninen: 29 SKODA

Jan Kopecký: 24 SKODA

Giandomenico Basso: 12 FORD

Not bad for a cold war Lada?

It could be considered as a low-prestige brand in Europe (actually it is a low-cost VW)... But in LOS, it is and remains an imported car, hence providing face (albeit at a lower degree than the compulsory BMW or Benz).

Agree with that.

Skoda has won many comparison reviews with its Superb, its Octavia and Yeti (autoexpress and Top Gear voted it Car of the Year - and Jeremy Clarkson isn't that easy usually). The Fabia vRS also has done pretty well in comparison tests, although some preferred the POLO GTI (which is nice, but quite a bit smaller) and of course unfortunately not available here.

The inside of the Superb has been my biggest 'Car revelation' in the past 12 months....nice, high qualtiy interior and the amount of space on back row is just enormous.

....anyhow, let's let Skoda were they are and what they are and get back to the thread. Wonder where a previous poster got the technical sheet with price from, i tried long and hard to find it on their web with no success...(or do I have to change my glasses?)

Edited November 27, 2012 by frankphuket

[funcat]

Wonder where a previous poster got the technical sheet with price from, i tried long and hard to find it on their web with no success...(or do I have to change my glasses?)

Got it email to me by the sales guy from Benz CM...

[tinfoilhat]

im liking the skoda, the 2013 estate (actually quicker than the hatch) is well worth looking into. what is the current fabia pricing?

if i bought one i would need change the F on the nameplate to an L

[steveromagnino]

:-)

I think the vRS is around 1.6m baht and you can get the MTM tune thrown in for that....not sure they have the station wagon though.