Bitcoin Where To Buy, If To Buy

[dave111223]

there's only one specific shortcoming and that is "bitcoin = lukewarm fart" on which i will not waste precious time.

Oh I see...so it would be a waste of your time to research the topic and offer an informed opinion, but to read and every "follow" every bitcoin topic, and post one-line "zingers" is not a waste of your time?

Edited February 7, 2013 by dave111223

[Naam]

there's only one specific shortcoming and that is "bitcoin = lukewarm fart" on which i will not waste precious time.

Oh I see...so it would be a waste of your time to research the topic and offer an informed opinion, but to read and every "follow" every bitcoin topic, and post one-line "zingers" is not a waste of your time?

no it is not. it is meant to encourage people (others than you) to do their homework on lukewarm farts. actually you are doing a good job too with postings such as "65% increase" on lukewarm fart profits which buys in Thailand a bottle of slightly above average quality wine.

[mccw]

Bit coin, like PMs, has the limited supply and creation rates, so I like it in that regard. But I don't like it due to its non physical nature; it just feels wrong. Eg if a solar flare took down the net or some one hacked it etc. I can see how for ease of trade it across distances it can be useful though. Not something I would keep money in but good not to be a part of the bankers system.

I would wager CIA etc who ever gov IT cyber bods are working hard to destroy bit coin as we speak.

Edited February 7, 2013 by mccw

[dave111223]

Bit coin, like PMs, has the limited supply and creation rates, so I like it in that regard. But I don't like it due to its non physical nature; it just feels wrong. Eg if a solar flare took down the net or some one hacked it etc. I can see how for ease of trade it across distances it can be useful though. Not something I would keep money in but good not to be a part of the bankers system.

I would wager CIA etc who ever gov IT cyber bods are working hard to destroy bit coin as we speak.

The limited supply (fixed limit of 21 Million which will be hit around 2030) does mean that it's a deflationary currency by it's nature, but that is not inherently bad, just a reverse in thinking (ie prices will go down over time instead of up). The system currently utilizes 8 decimal places, so real world items would probably end up costing small fractions of "a bitcoin" and new words would be coined (ie bitcents, bitsatang etc..)

The internet going down would only pause the currency while the internet was down, once the internet was back up bitcoin would continue, seeing as all the transaction records (the blockchain) is duplicated millions of times and stored on all the users computers (it's not stored "on the internet"). But the internet going down would take everything offline, not just bitcoin (think you'd be able to go and get money out of your bank during a global internet outage?).

As for "a hacker" they would really be targeting individuals (ie trying to get into your computer and steal your coins), in the same way current hackers try and get into your bank account, instead of trying to hack the system as a whole, which is mathematically impossible as it's not possible hack (reverse) one way encryption.

Massive attack is really the main threat, but to do this you would need at least 51% of the computing power of the entire network, at which point you could basically bring everything to a halt, but still not steal money. However the more users there are the likelyhood that one could obtain this kind of power is extremely unlikely (ie US government would need to commandeer every computer in the US and turn them all against bitcoin)

[dave111223]

Also I think this is an interesting graph:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22buy%20bitcoins%22%2C%20%22sell%20bitcoins%22&date=1%2F2010%2038m&cmpt=q

Compared to:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22buy%20gold%22%2C%20%22sell%20gold%22&date=1%2F2010%2038m&cmpt=q

[dave111223]

NOW:

1 Bitcoin > 1oz Silver

[Khun Jean]

Now 1 bitcoin is what a fool wants to pay for it.

I noticed that most shops that accept bitcoins have their products actually priced in their own currency and use an exchange rate to show the bitcoin price.

They also use an exchange/payment facility that as soon as bitcoins arrive in their account it is changed to dollars or euros or whatever.

What they do is ride a hype but still price everything in 'normal' currencies.

As products have to be manufactured and bought in normal currency the bitcoin is totally unsuited for it because of the wild fluctuations. You can speculate in it and hope when you need them to buy essentials that they are actually worth something. It would not hurt if you buy a $100 in bitcoins and just leave them in your 'wallet' for a few years.

However i think a much better competing currency would be something that is based on a commodity. Gold, silver, 'energy' in that order would be my preference.

[dave111223]

I noticed that most shops that accept bitcoins have their products actually priced in their own currency and use an exchange rate to show the bitcoin price.

They also use an exchange/payment facility that as soon as bitcoins arrive in their account it is changed to dollars or euros or whatever.

What they do is ride a hype but still price everything in 'normal' currencies.

Agreed, but of course it has to start this way. But i think as more merchants start to get on board there will be more reason for merchants to hold on to some of the bitcoins they receive and re-use them without conversion.

For example if you can pay you're web hosting bill, or telephone bills or pizza for bitcoins then you pay only exchange 90% of your bitcoin sales to cash, then keep 10% bitcoins to pay these items. And as more and more items become available for bitcoins cashout percentage will continue to decrease....maybe someday you won't need to exchange at all.

Example of practical use real world today:

• My parents, in US, ordered Singapore GP tickets using their credit card.
• I sent them money for my ticket in Bitcoins (about $200 worth).
• They had bitcoin money in their wallet within a minute
• I paid a fee of 89 satang
• They can now use that to buy their next 20 pizzahut medium pizzas But, given the current appreciation in value, it will probably buy them their next 30 or 40 pizzas.

Or of course they could just cash them in locally for USD if they wanted.

Can anyone give an easier/cheaper/quicker way that I could have got the money to them? Imagine when it's not just pizza they can buy, but groceries, gas, restaurants...it's coming

Edited February 22, 2013 by dave111223

[dave111223]

Ohh Naam if only you'd put some money in when this thread first started.

Price then: 380

Price now: 1300

Who's looking like a lukewarm fart now?

[ronz28]

Bitcoin to Kill the Fed- Alex Jones and Max Keiser

[mccw]

So where could I change euro cash to bit coin in EU?

[mccw]

Just came across this:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/03/major-glitch-in-bitcoin-network-sparks-sell-off-price-temporarily-falls-23/

[Naam]

Ohh Naam if only you'd put some money in when this thread first started.

Price then: 380

Price now: 1300

Who's looking like a lukewarm fart now?

those who believe in funny money.

[dave111223]

Just came across this:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/03/major-glitch-in-bitcoin-network-sparks-sell-off-price-temporarily-falls-23/

I think this proves that Bitcoin is here to stay; as this was a major issue for a short time, yet the price rebounded almost immediately to $44. In the past (such as August 2011) this kind of news would have dropped the price to almost $0. The fact that the net effect on the market price was almost nill shows that there is long term confidence in Bitcoin. I would expect to see bitcoin hit $50 in the next couple of weeks as this shows that Bitcoin can handle negative press without dumping out.

It also shows it can handle a hard fork without becoming fractured into 2 bitcoin versions. The userbase were able to come together quickly (within hours) and consensus was reached in order to best preserve a unified bitcoin. The response was quite impressive really.

Edited March 13, 2013 by dave111223

[mccw]

Is there bit coin exchange in Thailand?

I mean where can I buy or sell bit coins for cash bht; or even recieve USD in Thailand n then can change it up myself?

[dave111223]

Is there bit coin exchange in Thailand?

I mean where can I buy or sell bit coins for cash bht; or even recieve USD in Thailand n then can change it up myself?

http://bitcoin.in.th

http://bahtcoin.com

http://www.thaibitcoin.com

Edited March 13, 2013 by dave111223

[mccw]

Answering my own question; I found this:

https://localbitcoins.com/postal_code/TH/Bangkok/

So its mean you need to meet in person to exchange cash for coin. Otherwise one party is left trusting the other to fulfil thier half of the deal since no "charge backs". I would not send coin to some one and trust them to put money in my account. In person for not too much big amount could be ok though.

This kind of demonstrates its limitations. In these early days maybe not enough demand in many countries to be able to call it truly a global alternative system just yet. Also from security point of view how is trusting big cash deals for both parties. Like gold- what it needs is a network of reputable physical exchanges. If the point is to be annonamous then having to transfer in and out of the banking system kind of scuppers it.

[dave111223]

If the point is to be annonamous then having to transfer in and out of the banking system kind of scuppers it.

Personally I don't see this as the major selling point. I would rate other benefits far higher, being able to transfer large amounts of money anywhere in the world for almost no cost IMHO is the biggest selling point, and as a merchant the no chargebacks is also a key factor.

If you are worried about trusting people you can always use a company like https://btcrow.com/ who charge 1% to act as an independent 3rd party, in the case of a dispute they decide you gets the coins. In the case of BTCrow you have to trust them with the actual funds, but in the future this may not be the case as bitcoin has escrow capabilities built into the protocol.

I found this video really interesting as to all the potential capabilities of the bitcoin protocol, escrows, loans, contracts, you name it:

[mccw]

There is conversion costs in and out of the coin from one currency to another so its not really transferring money across the world at no cost; is it?

Like paying for exchange twice rather than once.

I'm not expert so please do example me how the costs compare with banks for same movement.

Say £100,000 to bht through a bank or via bit coin.

Edited March 13, 2013 by mccw

[dave111223]

It's not a viable solution for moving large quantities of GBP to THB between your own accounts, as you say this would just be adding additional currency conversions.

What i mean by "transfer large amounts of money anywhere in the world for almost no cost" is in the ideal future of bitcoin there is no GBP or THB. You get paid in BTC in the UK, you send BTC to Thailand, you buy stuff with BTC in Thailand. This is the future, not the now.

When considering currency conversions in the here and now it's only economically viable to use Bitcoin for transferring small amounts around the World. Where using wire transfers etc... have a high cost (such as a 800THB for wire transfer doesn't make sense when sending only 1000THB)

Edited March 13, 2013 by dave111223

[Naam]

There is conversion costs in and out of the coin from one currency to another so its not really transferring money across the world at no cost; is it?

Like paying for exchange twice rather than once.

I'm not expert so please do example me how the costs compare with banks for same movement.

Say £100,000 to bht through a bank or via bit coin.

There is conversion costs in and out of the coin from one currency to another so its not really transferring money across the world at no cost; is it?

Like paying for exchange twice rather than once.

I'm not expert so please do example me how the costs compare with banks for same movement.

Say £100,000 to bht through a bank or via bit coin.

i am paying CHF 25.- moving any amount of £, ¥, € from one account to the other. if i transfer £100k then the sending account is debited £100k and the receiving account is credited £100... not a penny more, not a penny less if my instruction is "free of charge to beneficiary" which will cost me another CHF 5-15 depending on receiving respectively correspondence bank.

if you want to use the bitcoin cloud nine method to transfer £100k you have to buy the equivalent amount of C9FM (cloud nine funny money), the receiving account is credited with "cloud nine funny money" and any conversion (not possible anyway nowadays) is open to suggestions because nobody knows what the rate £/C9FM will be when converted back to £. fluctuations of ±20% (within minutes!) seem to be normal once in a while.

summary: bitcoin = lukewarm fart for daydreamers (as already mentioned)

[mccw]

It's not a viable solution for moving large quantities of GBP to THB between your own accounts, as you say this would just be adding additional currency conversions.

What i mean by "transfer large amounts of money anywhere in the world for almost no cost" is in the ideal future of bitcoin there is no GBP or THB. You get paid in BTC in the UK, you send BTC to Thailand, you buy stuff with BTC in Thailand. This is the future, not the now.

When considering currency conversions in the here and now it's only economically viable to use Bitcoin for transferring small amounts around the World. Where using wire transfers etc... have a high cost (such as a 800THB for wire transfer doesn't make sense when sending only 1000THB)

Would still loose about 10% with changing in and out though no? What's the point to send such a small amount? If for a purchase then may aswell use a credit card and have the saftey of getting your money back if the goods don't turn up.

So the only real point of it is a place to keep/ move money outside of the banking system. Which is not so strait forward as it could/ should be. If it really did get to such a level the governments would probably just declare it illegal on national security/ terrorist funding excuse. Not to say It might not continue as a currency of / for the black market, but the dream you have of a global currency with everyone getting paid in and spending in bit coin is never going to happen.

[Naam]

What's the point to send such a small amount?

once the street noodle soup vendors and the som tam ladies have bitcoin accounts a breakthrough of the payment method is guaranteed.

[jbrain]

There is conversion costs in and out of the coin from one currency to another so its not really transferring money across the world at no cost; is it?

Like paying for exchange twice rather than once.

I'm not expert so please do example me how the costs compare with banks for same movement.

Say £100,000 to bht through a bank or via bit coin.

>There is conversion costs in and out of the coin from one currency to another so its not really transferring money across the world at no cost; is it?

Like paying for exchange twice rather than once.

I'm not expert so please do example me how the costs compare with banks for same movement.

Say £100,000 to bht through a bank or via bit coin.

i am paying CHF 25.- moving any amount of £, ¥, € from one account to the other. if i transfer £100k then the sending account is debited £100k and the receiving account is credited £100... not a penny more, not a penny less if my instruction is "free of charge to beneficiary" which will cost me another CHF 5-15 depending on receiving respectively correspondence bank.

if you want to use the bitcoin cloud nine method to transfer £100k you have to buy the equivalent amount of C9FM (cloud nine funny money), the receiving account is credited with "cloud nine funny money" and any conversion (not possible anyway nowadays) is open to suggestions because nobody knows what the rate £/C9FM will be when converted back to £. fluctuations of ±20% (within minutes!) seem to be normal once in a while.

summary: bitcoin = lukewarm fart for daydreamers (as already mentioned)

If that isn't a nice " talk around " the actual question, which we are used to from you of course.

MCCW, was asking to move pounds to Thai Baht, not moving Pounds from somewhere to Pounds in Thailand.

By the way, your bank in Thailand doesn't charge you a fixed rate of 500 Baht + a percentage on the amount on each transfer it receives from overseas, regardless of the fact that you gave the instructions, no cost to the beneficiary?

[dave111223]

It's not a viable solution for moving large quantities of GBP to THB between your own accounts, as you say this would just be adding additional currency conversions.

What i mean by "transfer large amounts of money anywhere in the world for almost no cost" is in the ideal future of bitcoin there is no GBP or THB. You get paid in BTC in the UK, you send BTC to Thailand, you buy stuff with BTC in Thailand. This is the future, not the now.

When considering currency conversions in the here and now it's only economically viable to use Bitcoin for transferring small amounts around the World. Where using wire transfers etc... have a high cost (such as a 800THB for wire transfer doesn't make sense when sending only 1000THB)

Would still loose about 10% with changing in and out though no? What's the point to send such a small amount? If for a purchase then may aswell use a credit card and have the saftey of getting your money back if the goods don't turn up.

So the only real point of it is a place to keep/ move money outside of the banking system. Which is not so strait forward as it could/ should be. If it really did get to such a level the governments would probably just declare it illegal on national security/ terrorist funding excuse. Not to say It might not continue as a currency of / for the black market, but the dream you have of a global currency with everyone getting paid in and spending in bit coin is never going to happen.

I'd say you'd lose more like 3-4% if you shop around for the best local conversion rates, and if you are sending them money to someone else then you personally are only eating half the conversion (maybe 2%).

Have you ever ordered many things online and had them shipped to Thailand using a credit card? Very few online retailers would consider shipping items to Thailand; and why you may ask? Fraud, stolen credit cards and chargebacks is the answer. This is why it's preferable for online merchants to receive bitcoins, as many wouldn't accept your credit card anyways.

And when you pay with a credit card you are still paying 3%-4%+ (the merchant is paying it) and as such this cost is already factored into the price. Many places in Thailand (and in the US too now) will add 3% onto your bill if you want to use a credit card. So this previously hidden cost, much to the chagrin of CC companies, is now becoming more visible.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mastercard-visa-users-pay-cards-article-1.1248759

Edited March 13, 2013 by dave111223

[Naam]

There is conversion costs in and out of the coin from one currency to another so its not really transferring money across the world at no cost; is it?

Like paying for exchange twice rather than once.

I'm not expert so please do example me how the costs compare with banks for same movement.

Say £100,000 to bht through a bank or via bit coin.

>There is conversion costs in and out of the coin from one currency to another so its not really transferring money across the world at no cost; is it?

Like paying for exchange twice rather than once.

I'm not expert so please do example me how the costs compare with banks for same movement.

Say £100,000 to bht through a bank or via bit coin.

trong>

i am paying CHF 25.- moving any amount of £, ¥, € from one account to the other. if i transfer £100k then the sending account is debited £100k and the receiving account is credited £100... not a penny more, not a penny less if my instruction is "free of charge to beneficiary" which will cost me another CHF 5-15 depending on receiving respectively correspondence bank.

if you want to use the bitcoin cloud nine method to transfer £100k you have to buy the equivalent amount of C9FM (cloud nine funny money), the receiving account is credited with "cloud nine funny money" and any conversion (not possible anyway nowadays) is open to suggestions because nobody knows what the rate £/C9FM will be when converted back to £. fluctuations of ±20% (within minutes!) seem to be normal once in a while.

summary: bitcoin = lukewarm fart for daydreamers (as already mentioned)

If that isn't a nice " talk around " the actual question, which we are used to from you of course.

MCCW, was asking to move pounds to Thai Baht, not moving Pounds from somewhere to Pounds in Thailand.

By the way, your bank in Thailand doesn't charge you a fixed rate of 500 Baht + a percentage on the amount on each transfer it receives from overseas, regardless of the fact that you gave the instructions, no cost to the beneficiary?

-i can't see that "mccw" specified "GBP to Thai Baht". but even if that was the case how would he get the GBP100k value of Bitcoins converted into THB?

-no the Thai bank does not charge anything because the charges are debited at point of transfer origin and i am getting a statement which specifies both charges. i have used the method twice because a transferred money for a friend who insisted on "no charge to beneficiary". but it was a zero sum game because the CHF15 additional charge is equivalent to THB 500.

[jbrain]

-i can't see that "mccw" specified "GBP to Thai Baht". but even if that was the case how would he get the GBP100k value of Bitcoins converted into THB?

-no the Thai bank does not charge anything because the charges are debited at point of transfer origin and i am getting a statement which specifies both charges. i have used the method twice because a transferred money for a friend who insisted on "no charge to beneficiary". but it was a zero sum game because the CHF15 additional charge is equivalent to THB 500.

Say £100,000 to bht through a bank or via bit coin

That means Baht isn't it?

And if the Thai bank didn't charge you 500 Baht commission than you must be an exception, since this is a fee they always charge. It think it is an exchange fee, nothing to do with the transfer.

I think it has been mentioned a few times already in this forum, but too lazy to look it up. Anyway in the past I always sent my money " no costs for the recipient" and alsways get hit with that fee.

[mccw]

On the major exchange there are $1000per day withdrawal limits:

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130313.html

[dave111223]

On the major exchange there are $1000per day withdrawal limits:

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130313.html

If you want a higher withdrawal limit you have to "verify" (send in ID and proof of address). I have a $10,000 per day limit on mtgox. You can get up to $100,000 per day limit if you verify with mailed-in/notarized ID documents.

Edited March 13, 2013 by dave111223

[dave111223]

Price Now: 1800

Good thing I stuck in a large investment at 900, not a bad way to double your money in a couple of months.