Bitcoin Where To Buy, If To Buy

[meom]

^

They do but you have to give them doggie’s address so there goes part of your anonymity.

The site referenced in the article above has a forum and if you go to their forum you’ll find all sorts of threads that deal with security
issues and how to receive the goods “anonymous”.

For example once the mail slides through the doggie door you don’t open it but instead mark it “return to sender”.

Then you leave it on your kitchen table for 1-2 days waiting for the DEA to storm in.

If they don’t and you haven't freaked out in a bout of paranoia you’re in the clear and ready to open your package to enjoy the goods.

Pretty hilarious stuff and there’s definitely some hand wringing going on among the nerdy junkie community that's ordering their fix online.

[mccw]

""As the eurozone is rocked by the crisis in Cyprus, a cyber currency called Bitcoin has seen a surge in popularity from people looking for an alternative place to invest their money.

Bitcoins are basically virtual money which can be earned or bought. They were created four years ago by a hacker who remains anonymous.

There are no banks to control them, people just exchange them directly with each other over the internet. That makes them difficult to tax, trace or freeze.

In the last month, the Bitcoin has more than doubled in value.

It is claimed the surge is partly down to people in cash-strapped countries including Spain and Greece turning to Bitcoins in the hope of protecting their money.

Amir Taaki, who has helped to develop it in the UK, told Sky News he believes it is a purer alternative to traditional banks.

"There are so many things that are wrong and broken with banks. Primarily, the biggest problem is I have to trust them and I have no other option.

"Bitcoin is a basic system where I can choose how much trust I put in other people.

"There is no central bank or central authority controlling it. Everyone that participates in the network is upholding the network and it's not a theoretical concept but a billion dollar market with charts and graphs and people are using it.

"Because it's decentralised and runs off a mathematical algorithm it means it can't be corrupted."

The huge spike in value makes it an attractive investment for some, but currency experts like Simon Smith from FxPro warns against that.

"It's totally unsafe. They might as well burn their money in a pile as far as I'm concerned. Yes, Bitcoin has doubled in value over the last month but it has every sign of being a bubble."

Bitcoin has reached an all-time high, trading at almost £60. Its market value is now more than £500m.

Some restaurants and shops already accept Bitcoin as payment and its supporters claim that in the future it will be dispensed from ATMs like pounds and euros.""

From sky news app

[dave111223]

For those interested in monitoring the price I find this site very useful: http://bitcoinity.com/markets (live bitcoin trading price charts)

Edited March 30, 2013 by dave111223

[NeverSure]

Have fun, guys. I truly hope this matures into an true alternative to the filthy fiat money being printed by governments. But today I see it as virtual fiat money. It isn't backed by gold or oil wells. It hasn't found its value long term yet. It isn't widely accepted as gold and government money is.

Right now I don't know if the value is speculative or real. I can't get a handle on it the way I can my home, or gold, or my antique Schwinn bike collection or my guns and ammo. BTW the value of my guns and ammo has doubled since Obama was elected the first time. All of this noise (which is just noise) about banning some of my guns has doubled their value and the ammo to shoot in them is in very short supply, being hoarded by people like me.

These things I can touch, use, feel, and know they are real.

No one would be happier than I to see a "people's" money outside the control of governments. I just don't see the governments allowing it long term, and if they do I want the newness shaken out of it until it is accepted anywhere my USD or baht or credit card is.

You make your money on bitcoins if you can, but just be aware that right now it is in a speculative, hyped phase where no one can put a real value on it. Play with a little of it if it's fun, but don't bet the farm on it.

[JSixpack]

Bitcoin May Be the Global Economy's Last Safe Haven

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-03-28/bitcoin-may-be-the-global-economys-last-safe-haven#r=most%20popular

[dave111223]

I've been thinking about putting a bit of money into Litecoin too. Plus it's still mineable by normal people (i'm currently earning about $.50 a day mining yay!)

It's basically a different version of Bitcoin which has some technical differences, such as the ability to process more transactions more quickly.

It's value has been steadily rising also and is now worth almost $2 per Litecoin (as compared to Bitcoins $100 per coin).

If you think Bitcoin is funny money I'd be interested to see what you think of a secondary level of "funny money"

[NeverSure]

I went to the bank today and tried to borrow 4000 bitcoins on my house and land, and they looked at me like I was crazy.

What's wrong with these people, anyway? They probably still haven't heard about Simon and Garfunkel, either.

[jbrain]

I went to the bank today and tried to borrow 4000 bitcoins on my house and land, and they looked at me like I was crazy.

What's wrong with these people, anyway? They probably still haven't heard about Simon and Garfunkel, either.

They must have known you from your avatar.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Is it possible BC will develop the system enough to sell it to someone who could really take it forward like a Money center bank or tech giant?

Such as Skype, Paypal, Youtube and a long list of other companies who got a technology going.

[NeverSure]

Microsoft owns Skype, Ebay owns Paypal and Google owns YouTube. (Last I knew.)

Western governments have been very lax with the internet, imposing little to no restrictions. It's actually quite surprising, but "the people" think the internet is theirs for various purposes and scream to high Heaven any time there's any talk of regulation.

But this Bitcoin deal might be different. How long will governments tolerate some freelance cowboys competing with their control of money? How long will the banksters and Wall Street types sit still?

The US politicians have learned a game very well. When they don't want to vote to pass something that's unpopular, then it's done by a regulation from a government agency which consists of unelected people. Health and Human Services or The Department of Education or The Department of The Treasury (different from the Federal Reserve) or any one of dozens can simply create a regulation. A regulation is law.

I wouldn't bet the farm on these international and national bankers and governments continuing to tolerate a "people's" money that they can't control.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Just the intelligence value alone would make it an attractive acquisition

Nobody knows who is behind bitcoin. I don't anyway. Anybody have theories or evidence?

Could this already be owned or operated by NSA or CIA?

[NeverSure]

I don't see how. The level of encryption for not only transactions but members, and the level of knowledge of those who of course have studied the heck out of this if for no other reason than curiosity, tells me that it's anonymous.

It is the currency used on The Silk Road for all kinds of illegal transactions including heavy drugs. I think as people discover how anonymous it is, and what they can buy anonymously with it, the price of the bitcoin goes up.

I can't get a handle on how much of the appreciation of the bitcoin has to do with pure speculative run-up, and how much is real. Since it can be used to make anonymous purchases of many illegal things and all highly encrypted, and when I see how many people ran to it in Cyprus, It makes me wonder.

I just don't know.

[dave111223]

Just the intelligence value alone would make it an attractive acquisition

Nobody knows who is behind bitcoin. I don't anyway. Anybody have theories or evidence?

Could this already be owned or operated by NSA or CIA?

The people "behind" it would be the people who wrote the original bitcoin client software: http://bitcoin.org/en/development

However it's open source, so you could write your own version of the client from scratch (provided it still followed the same protocol standards) and then you'd be "behind" bitcoin too.

Anyone who runs a bitcoin client (bitcoin software) is part of "operating" the network. So if you download the software then you would be "operating bitcoin" (or if the CIA had some computers with the software then they'd be operating bitcoin too).

No one "owns" it as a whole, but you can own some bitcoins.

Any changes to the system would require majority rule. For example let say you created your own modified version of the software, but it was a bit different (such as faster transaction rates). Your new software is not compatible with the other versions of bitcoin, because you'd changed the protocol standards; this is considered a "hard fork", and one of the following would occur:

1) No one likes your new version, no one uses and it fades into the history books; normal bitcoin continues running the way it did before.

2) Most people like your new version better, and they upgrade to your version, once your version acquires a majority people quickly jump ship to your new version and now bitcoin has changed a bit to your new version.

3) There is a split decision. Lots of people like your version, but lots want to stick with the old version. There are now 2 difference versions of bitcoin. When accepting a bitcoin payment you'd have to specify "I want Bitcoin 1.0, and don't use Bitcoin Cobrasnake version". However the chances of a long term split with 2 viable verisons seems remote as people want to jump onboard with the popular version.

For this reason no one can just change the code, for example creating more bitcoins, or change the code so that 10% of all transactions get sent to them; as no one would upgrade to this new version.

Edited April 2, 2013 by dave111223

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I don't know about that. I grew up near the CIA and went to Langley high school and consider myself a bit of an intelligence buff.

The Japanese didn't think their code was broken either. Study up on when Gen. Yamamoto was shot from the sky and then intelligence agencies sold it as "lucky break".

I have not really studied BC but it's not implausible that it's infiltrated already or even designed from the start. These agencies routinely fake out the KGB and Chinese intelligence and vice versus.

I am definitely going to take an interest in it... The game is much bigger than somebody buying some buds on Silkroad.

[dave111223]

I don't know about that. I grew up near the CIA and went to Langley high school and consider myself a bit of an intelligence buff.

The Japanese didn't think their code was broken either. Study up on when Gen. Yamamoto was shot from the sky and then intelligence agencies sold it as "lucky break".

I have not really studied BC but it's not implausible that it's infiltrated already or even designed from the start. These agencies routinely fake out the KGB and Chinese intelligence and vice versus.

I am definitely going to take an interest in it... The game is much bigger than somebody buying some buds on Silkroad.

On which file/line # has it already been "infiltrated"?

You can view every line of code in the software here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/src

With regards to Japanese WWII code etc... you are referring to 2-way encryption. Meaning something that is encrypted (such as a message) and given the correct cipher you can decrypt it back into the original message and read it. As such you can "crack it" if you figure out what the cipher is.

However this should not be confused with one-way encryption, this is useful for when you don't need to know what the original message was specifically.

One-way encryption is mathematically impossible to reverse. The only way to beat it would be with brute force and put every possible input into the encryption algorithm until is comes out with the result you want (trial and error).

Most password systems store your password in one-way encryption, so that when you come to a website and enter your password. It puts your entered password through an algorithm and then compares the encrypted result with the encryption result they have on file....meaning they never need to have your original password saved.

Bitcoin uses one-way encryption to verify ownership of coins, thus it's not possible to "crack it". One would only be have to "brute force it". However if the current one-way encryption algorithm became too easy to brute force (computers becoming too powerful and able to computer trillions of calculations per second), then the software would just need to updated to use a newer/stronger encryption method.

Edited April 2, 2013 by dave111223

[Naam]

I don't know about that. I grew up near the CIA and went to Langley high school and consider myself a bit of an intelligence buff.

The Japanese didn't think their code was broken either. Study up on when Gen. Yamamoto was shot from the sky and then intelligence agencies sold it as "lucky break".

I have not really studied BC but it's not implausible that it's infiltrated already or even designed from the start. These agencies routinely fake out the KGB and Chinese intelligence and vice versus.

I am definitely going to take an interest in it... The game is much bigger than somebody buying some buds on Silkroad.

the game is indeed much bigger! assuming you are an American (Langley High School) you should be especially careful getting involved with a system that will sooner or later be a perceived or most probably a real pain in the àss of the CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland security, Boise, Idaho firebrigade, Duluth, Minnesota YMCA and what not organisations.

it goes without saying that potential problems will not only cause that Americans are targeted but any citizen wherever he dwells on this planet... including Nakhon Nowhere near the Cambodian border.

[Naam]

Bitcoin uses one-way encryption...

forget about encryption. people need once in a while cash. and that's where the weak point is. that is... maybe the Bitcoin chaps come up with a method to "mine" cash in your backyard. then you can leave your bitcoins on virtual cloud nine till pigs can fly.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I don't know about that. I grew up near the CIA and went to Langley high school and consider myself a bit of an intelligence buff.

The Japanese didn't think their code was broken either. Study up on when Gen. Yamamoto was shot from the sky and then intelligence agencies sold it as "lucky break".

I have not really studied BC but it's not implausible that it's infiltrated already or even designed from the start. These agencies routinely fake out the KGB and Chinese intelligence and vice versus.

I am definitely going to take an interest in it... The game is much bigger than somebody buying some buds on Silkroad.

the game is indeed much bigger! assuming you are an American (Langley High School) you should be especially careful getting involved with a system that will sooner or later be a perceived or most probably a real pain in the àss of the CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland security, Boise, Idaho firebrigade, Duluth, Minnesota YMCA and what not organisations.

it goes without saying that potential problems will not only cause that Americans are targeted but any citizen wherever he dwells on this planet... including Nakhon Nowhere near the Cambodian border.

I don't think they are after me or most small fry like expats or even most money launderers.

But an intelligent person should at least reserve a couple of percent probability that intelligence services could have constructed the ultimate honey trap for terrorists etc.

For most stuff even like buying weed I wouldn't worry about BC.

The longer BC operates without major challenge then one does have to wonder.

For now I am excited to use, follow, research and theorize about its future.

[BookMan]

Article in today's Australian paper regaring bitcoin

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/bitcoin-boom-breakthrough-moment-or-billiondollar-bubble-20130403-2h68h.html

[NeverSure]

Bitcoin uses one-way encryption...

forget about encryption. people need once in a while cash. and that's where the weak point is. that is... maybe the Bitcoin chaps come up with a method to "mine" cash in your backyard. then you can leave your bitcoins on virtual cloud nine till pigs can fly.

I think you're right, but another part of me wonders, if the bitcoin becomes more accepted by merchants, then why would I have to first convert it to some other "cash?" Why can't I just spend it.

I also simply can't get a clue as to why the value is skyrocketing. Is it all speculation, or is there really that much demand for money laundering and drugs and other illicit things, and are people like Cypriots really wanting it for savings? If the US dollar and Australian dollar and Canadian dollar and Euro and Pound etc. keep struggling with real interest rates less than inflation, is there really maybe true excess demand driving the price up?

I think it would be fun to open an online store, take a bunch of valuable things I'd like to sell and put them in my store. Set it up so I accept only bitcoins and try to acquire them that way. Barter is often a way to increase value.

For instance there is a site for classified ads for guns only. You have to, by rules, either state a price, or offer to trade. You don't have to state what you'd trade for. You just won't accept cash. I have come out way ahead by putting a surplus gun on there and saying "trade only. I'm not sure what all I'd trade for so offer me something." (guns) Someone who really wanted what I had would really dig around for something to trade me to get my item, and I have always come out ahead. Why would offering to sell only for bitcoins, and not stating a price be any different? "offer me some bitcoins"

Fun stuff on a scale where I can't lose too much.

[Naam]

NeverSure:

I also simply can't get a clue as to why the value is skyrocketing. Is
it all speculation, or is there really that much demand for money
laundering and drugs and other illicit things, and are people like
Cypriots really wanting it for savings?

the skyrocketing value without the slightest tangible basis should

be reason enough to create a strong caveat. add to this the possibility

of "mining" bitcoins and the gadgets sold for this purpose.

but then... a fool and his money bitcoins

[Khun Jean]

Nobody seems to wonder who got the first 6 million bitcoins.

They were acquired in a short timeframe for no 'work', just like a banker prints money from thin air, but even better because there is no trace of the person and no initial deposits where needed. With Madoff and Bernanke you at least still knew who did it.

After that the 'mining' took off and people struggled and invested equipment and energy to mine those bitcoins.

Now that the price of the content of an encrypted wallet on someones computer is going sky high through hype that is creating a bubble it will probably be transferred to some real assets soon leaving all the others with the real value of a bitcoin, namely zero or very close to it. At that moment i will buy a few thousand of them for 100 baht and see what happens next. Drugdealers love bitcoin so maybe it will go up again.

Another litecoin is already been setup and it shows the same, are they doing it again, or did someone figure it out and copied it and acquired a large amount of them for free. Litecoin is for people who have less money and also want to gamble on it going skyhigh. And yes i have a few hundred of those for very very little bahts.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Western Union mulling use of Bitcoin

http://mashable.com/2013/04/02/western-union-bitcoin/

[dave111223]

Nobody seems to wonder who got the first 6 million bitcoins.

They were acquired in a short timeframe for no 'work', just like a banker prints money from thin air, but even better because there is no trace of the person and no initial deposits where needed. With Madoff and Bernanke you at least still knew who did it.

This is false. Bitcoin was publicly announced in 2009, at which point only 50 bitcoins existed (Public Announcement: http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2009-January/014994.html ). If you look at the date of the first block in the blockchain you will see they are the same time period.

People who were interested in this software started mining right away, and because there weren't many people interested, then there weren't many people mining and each miner received lots of coins, but at that time the bitcoins were worthless.

It took more than 2 years to create 6million bitcoins, is that what you mean by "short timeframe"...bitcoins were being generated at this same rate (50bitcoins per 10 minutes) right up until the end of 2012. And are now generated at 25BTC per 10 minutes.

Just because you didn't hear about it, because you didn't run in the kind of nerdy circles that it was being mentioned at that point, doesn't mean it was a secret. That's like saying because you didn't hear about the Google IPO until 3 years later, then anyone who bought in at the IPO is a scoundrel.

Another litecoin is already been setup and it shows the same, are they doing it again, or did someone figure it out and copied it and acquired a large amount of them for free. Litecoin is for people who have less money and also want to gamble on it going skyhigh. And yes i have a few hundred of those for very very little bahts.

Again litecoin was not premined, the software was announced publicly, and then "released" several days later allowing people to install the software and start mining right from the start.

There are however some virtual currencies (such as Novacoin and Ripple) that were partially or full premined, where the software authors secretly ran the software by themselves for awhile before releasing it, so that they could keep a bunch of coins for themselves. I'd probably stay away from investing in these kind of coins.

[mccw]

So how many of these bit coin esque currencies are there? The idea of value based on scarcity that bitcoin sells itself on is kinda blown away if unlimited other such currencies can be created. Gold and silver on the either hand are elements Wichita can not be recreated/ mimicked. Commodities Have uses swell as exchange value while these e currencies only value is thier exchange function, so when taking away the scarcity how can value be safe?

[dave111223]

So how many of these bit coin esque currencies are there? The idea of value based on scarcity that bitcoin sells itself on is kinda blown away if unlimited other such currencies can be created. Gold and silver on the either hand are elements Wichita can not be recreated/ mimicked. Commodities Have uses swell as exchange value while these e currencies only value is thier exchange function, so when taking away the scarcity how can value be safe?

One should consider the different variations of virtual currency as different separate commodities.

For example if a huge oil field was discovered, it might make the price of oil fall, but it would have no direct baring on the price of gold.

In the same way that the price of one of the separate virtual currencies doesn't have a direct price effect on each other, but obviously they have some indirect effect. For example if a flaw in Litecoin brought it's value to zero, this might also bring down the price of a bitcoins some because general confidence in virtual currencies may be knocked, but it would not bring the bitcoin price down in the same amount as the litecoin price.

Edited April 3, 2013 by dave111223

[mccw]

So how many of these bit coin esque currencies are there? The idea of value based on scarcity that bitcoin sells itself on is kinda blown away if unlimited other such currencies can be created. Gold and silver on the either hand are elements Wichita can not be recreated/ mimicked. Commodities Have uses swell as exchange value while these e currencies only value is thier exchange function, so when taking away the scarcity how can value be safe?

One should consider the different variations of virtual currency as different separate commodities.

For example if a huge oil field was discovered, it might make the price of oil fall, but it would have no direct baring on the price of gold.

In the same way that the price of one of the separate virtual currencies doesn't have a direct price effect on each other, but obviously they have some indirect effect. For example if a flaw in Litecoin brought it's value to zero, this might also bring down the price of a bitcoins some because general confidence in virtual currencies may be knocked, but it would not bring the bitcoin price down in the same amount as the litecoin price.

Sorry but I don't see your analogy of oil to gold or separate commodities as working since they both have different uses where as one lite coin and one bit coin are the same use no? What's the main difference that would give one value over another? Initially it's established security and spread of acceptability that has bit coin over lite coin for example. But years or decades down the line if code like this are proved secure , then what will separate them? There can be endless new versions of bit coin created?

[mccw]

So zero scarcity

But I imagine maybe traders would only want to service perhaps a handful of coin types at most. How can value be attributed to them relative to each other if you have say 5 widely used and accepted coins all basically doing the same thing? Since they are accepted global and nit dependant on any local economies like fiat money it's also a wonder where the value comes from so again it comes back to the tradability and scarcity. But the traceability can be endlessly recreated and therefore there is no scarcity.

The only way to institute scarcity would be some kind of memorandum / limit to what coins were permitted to be traded. Maybe at a supra national level. I wonder if this is the one world currency of the globalist making.

[fletchsmile]

Have to say, the more I read, the more it looks like a large virtual pyramid scheme to me. Someone just creating money out of 1's and 0's.

As to who got the original bit coins and how, there's no real way of tracking. It's anonymous. Could easily have been a set up for the early mining with a few real finds for nerds mixed in with the "big money" that was part of the design.

The interesting twists are the money launderers and drug dealers who are using it to dip in and out, plus the uncertain times we are living in.

Take away those two elements and it looks like a large complex game of virtual musical chairs. Built of course on the concept that instead of a fixed number of players in the game at the start and a fixed number of chairs, both number of players and number of chairs are increasing. At some point when the music stops there'll be some big losses. i.e take away global uncertainty and illegal uses and the pyramid collapses with demand plummeting and supply just continuing to increase based on mathematic algorythms. Plus of course no tangible value in the first place.

Fletch

Edited April 3, 2013 by fletchsmile

[mccw]

Dave . To use your commodity analogy it's more like an gold mine and then another and another and another until it's hardly worth theeeffort drilling any more coz the cost of the golds less then that to get it out of the ground

Over supply and just the same stuff at the end of the day