Naam Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Price Now: 1800 Good thing I stuck in a large investment at 900, not a bad way to double your money in a couple of months. question: assuming you have invested 1 million which has doubled in the meantime and you would like to have your money back in cash... what is the exact procedure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Price Now: 1800 Good thing I stuck in a large investment at 900, not a bad way to double your money in a couple of months. question: assuming you have invested 1 million which has doubled in the meantime and you would like to have your money back in cash... what is the exact procedure? Send the bitcoins to my Mt. Gox account (almost free transfer). Put in an exchange ask, trade gets executed once offers meet my price with USD. Then wire transfer the money to my SCB account (700THB transfer fee). However there is no way I'm trading them in. I'm riding this all the way; ie never going to sell at any price, I'm going to use a couple of them directly once Ferrari starts accepting them for payments When you considering that the total market cap of bitcoin is only $600,000 million there is still a long way for it to grow to approach what I think it can become (the first global currency) Edited March 21, 2013 by dave111223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Mt. Gox account ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Mt.+Gox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronz28 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Might be a Ponzi scheme. Good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Might be a Ponzi scheme. Good luck. It doesn't really make sense to use the term "Ponzi scheme", as there is no central controller and no opacity. For example if all the initial developers and early adopters decided to sell their bitcoins and cash out, they'd get fiat money out and it would probably drive the price down (if they all did it at the same time and had considerable holdings), but with a Ponzi scheme at that point the scheme is over and everyone else loses, but with Bitcoin seeing as the initial developers and early adopters do not have any central control over the system, so the Bitcoin protocol would still continue to operate without them. Bitcoins is also 100% transparent, anyone (with some C++ programming knowledge) can download a bitcoin client in open source and look at every line of code and see "what is happening", and every transactions is broadcast publicly to the world. You can even get involved yourself in writing code improvements, or talk with code authors to try and convince them to write code changes for you (if you are not capable). There is no curtain, everything is an open book. If you think it's a conspiracy to enrich the early adopters, it would be more akin to a stock pump and dump. IMHO even if Bitcoin were to dump to zero and lose all confidence (and basically cease to exist, and I lost my investment), the writing is already on the wall for fiat currencies. Make no mistake the concept is ground breaking: http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf If Bitcoin dies another improved reincarnation will replace it. At the heart of it "money" is nothing more than society agreeing "Bob has $10", "Jane has $20" if no one could lie and everyone could just remember how much everyone had there would be no need for physical money at all, but unfortunately humans are not capable of this, but computers now make this possible in the form of virtual currency. Edited March 21, 2013 by dave111223 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Also a Ponzi requires that you continue to increase the number of investors, in order to continue to keep paying back the previous investors + return; otherwise the scheme implodes (al bernie madoff). Whereas with Bitcoin if there was no new investors and the price did not increase or even started decreasing this would not cause a problem, or the system to implode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronz28 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I trust but verify first. I don't find audited financial statements but did see interest by law enforcement. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/08/financial-bitcoins-idUSN0712301920110608 There are less risky and more beneficial ways to make money out there like investing in biotech or alternative energy companies or indexes, etc. at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronz28 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If you take some mad money and play the run to $150 per Max Keiser, you may lose it all or have to deal with law enforcement fishing expeditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Digging up articles from 2011? on a "crackdown"...do you base your stock picks on 2 year old info too? P.S. It doesn't make sense that there would be "financial statements" as there is no company running bitcoin. You can see every transaction ever made though: https://blockchain.info/blocks each "block" contains about 10 minutes of transactions, click on any block to show the transactions within. Edited March 21, 2013 by dave111223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 hi Dave does this news cause any potential problems? Web Money Gets Laundering Rule http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html?mod=djemalertNEWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 hi Dave does this news cause any potential problems? Web Money Gets Laundering Rule http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html?mod=djemalertNEWS Initially I thought this would be a problem (ie a crackdown/clamp down) in the US. However after reading more on the new regs. it just means if you exchange virtual currency (such as bitcoin) for fiat currency in the USA, of more than $1000 per day, then you must register as a MSB (Money Service Business) with FinCEN. Again initially i thought "oh no registration, that's probably a ton of paperwork and fees", after more reading it's actually as simple as filling in a free registration form: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msb.registration.html within 180 days of opening your exchange business. And you have to keep a list of the people you do exchanges with. Really pretty basic stuff as far as I can see. Personally I don't see it as a good thing, as personally I'd rather have as little to do with government and "registrations" as possible, but it's not a bad thing for the other all Bitcoin economy either. Basically the only tangible change this would have is when you buy/sell bitcoins in the US you will probably be required to give a name/address to the exchange, (instead of just doing it based only on an email address or something), if the exchange is operating on the up and up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 hi Dave does this news cause any potential problems? Web Money Gets Laundering Rule http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324373204578374611351125202.html?mod=djemalertNEWS Initially I thought this would be a problem (ie a crackdown/clamp down) in the US. However after reading more on the new regs. it just means if you exchange virtual currency (such as bitcoin) for fiat currency in the USA, of more than $1000 per day, then you must register as a MSB (Money Service Business) with FinCEN. Again initially i thought "oh no registration, that's probably a ton of paperwork and fees", after more reading it's actually as simple as filling in a free registration form: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msb.registration.html within 180 days of opening your exchange business. And you have to keep a list of the people you do exchanges with. Really pretty basic stuff as far as I can see. Personally I don't see it as a good thing, as personally I'd rather have as little to do with government and "registrations" as possible, but it's not a bad thing for the other all Bitcoin economy either. Basically the only tangible change this would have is when you buy/sell bitcoins in the US you will probably be required to give a name/address to the exchange, (instead of just doing it based only on an email address or something), if the exchange is operating on the up and up. " personally I'd rather have as little to do with government and registrations" as possible, " Agreed !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 on very naïve people believe that the Greatest Nation on Earth™, which forced powerful financial institutions worldwide on their knees, will tolerate anonymous transactions above a certain level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prepress Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Hi dave, I'm interested in Bitcoins. I checked the internet to get some more information.I understand it is like another currency and it's digital. And there is only a limited amount available. Supply and demand determine the value.But very little information about how to change $, ¥,€, £ to Bitcoins and back. And on which bank account are $, ¥,€, £ finally stored? Where can I see the current exchange rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) Step 1) Get yourself a bitcoin wallet. This is just a program that runs on your computer, and there are quite a few options: http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet Personally I've tried them all and found Electrum to be by far the easiest to use and fastest: http://electrum.org/download.html Step 2) Open up your wallet program (and let's assume you are using Electrum) click the "Receive" tab, this will show your "addresses" which are random strings that look something like this: 1GXohrdnWAxqxxAtabYsLZU8HPzoY7i8mv (this is just an example don't send anything to this address) Step 3) Sell some stuff for bitcoins, or buy some bitcoins; and have the other party send them to your address. If you are buying bitcoins you can either: 1) For high volume $, ¥,€, £ (50,000baht up) use Mt. Gox (http://mtgox.com in Japan) by using an international wire transfer (SWIFT/IBAN). 2) a) Meet people in person via: https://localbitcoins.com/postal_code/TH/Bangkok/ b ) Buy from a local online exchange such http://bitcoin.in.th or http://bathcoin.com for THB bank transfer Step 4) After you have received some bitcoins you'll see them in your wallet balance. You can then use the "Send" tab to send them to anyone elses address (they must provide you with the address you cannot search for peoples addresses) Here's a simplified "how it works": And here's a more detailed video: Edited March 22, 2013 by dave111223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) I have hundreds of these bitcoins. I might add, I didn't buy them at the current price either. Much much lower. Edited March 22, 2013 by ukrules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 I have hundreds of these bitcoins. I might add, I didn't buy them at the current price either. Much much lower. Maybe you can donate some to Naam Seriously though PM if you want to sell some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Now I see the use for bit coins: http://guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prepress Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Now I see the use for bit coins: http://guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace Not bad, if it can break the power of the drug cartel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Now I see the use for bit coins: http://guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace Not bad, if it can break the power of the drug cartel. yeah right! let's order crack, pot and metamphetamines via bitcoin. it's anonymous and nobody will find out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Now I see the use for bit coins: http://guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace Yes, nobody ever did that with other currencies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I have hundreds of these bitcoins. I might add, I didn't buy them at the current price either. Much much lower. Maybe you can donate some to Naam Seriously though PM if you want to sell some I'm not selling any at the moment but I was considering buying a car in the next month or so with some of my profits (assuming I don't lose it all) so I may cash out half a million Baht or so at some point. This all depends on how the markets move though. 500,000 Baht is currently 251 Bitcoin. It will be interesting to see how this 251 figure changes over the coming weeks and months as people rush to purchase bitcoin. Maybe the car dealership will accept a direct payment in Bitcoin. They can be hard to get hold of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronz28 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Maybe courts will someday determine Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme and early investor sellers will be disgorged of their profits as they will be determined to be their ill gotten gains from a Ponzi scheme as with the Madoff case. I don't know...its a risk. http://www.cohenandwolf.com/?t=40&an=7756&format=xml&p=3199 http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/222624/the-importance-of-saving-money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I get what it is but to use it is still a level of geekness I'm not comfortable with. The elctrum apple download page you linked; can I use one of them on my I pad. Why are there different ones "signed by ...." And what's all that other coded stuff on about? Why isn't there something simple where you can just buy and sell bit coins withs out all the jargon gobbledeegook? http://electrum.org/download.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletchsmile Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 As well as being geeky, one also has to wonder that when you download the software, what else might be embedded in that software, that may be used further down the line.... and not for your benefit but someone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I signed up for mt gox . Not deposited yet. Looks like its needing funds sent to them in Japan. S loose on conversion costs both ways when buy or sel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccw Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 As well as being geeky, one also has to wonder that when you download the software, what else might be embedded in that software, that may be used further down the line.... and not for your benefit but someone else's. Yes. That's why I wasn't feeling these wallet program's at all. + many basically mean you have to trust them with your funds / bit coins. "Trusting" a 2 or three year old company with meaningful amounts of money, no thanks. The mt gox since it carries 80% of all trades seems like the safest solution for a small punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meom Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Now I see the use for bit coins: http://guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace Not bad, if it can break the power of the drug cartel.yeah right! let's order crack, pot and metamphetamines via bitcoin. it's anonymous and nobody will find out The payment might be anonymous but you still have to receive the goods physically and at that stage it's a bit more tricky to remain anonymous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Now I see the use for bit coins: http://guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace Not bad, if it can break the power of the drug cartel.yeah right! let's order crack, pot and metamphetamines via bitcoin. it's anonymous and nobody will find out The payment might be anonymous but you still have to receive the goods physically and at that stage it's a bit more tricky to remain anonymous. you mean they don't slip the dope secretly at midnight through the doggie door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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