What Do Gay People Really Want?

[isanbirder]

The Gay Forum has been dead as a doornail for the past month, so I hope this will stir things up a bit!

What do gay people really want? I think we want to be just an aspect of the diversity of human beings. We don't want to be special; we don't want to be a sort of exclusive group because of our sexuality. We just want to be an equal, and largely unnoticeable, part of the whole gamut of humanity.

The nearest comparison is lefthandedness, not a very near one, but the nearest there is. Lefthandedness was considered somehow 'wrong' in most societies, and was particularly a problem in societies where the right hand was used for eating from the communal food dish. The Latin for left-handed was 'sinister', which tells its own story.

Because this is how I see gayness, I have reservations about Gay Pride, and the other manifestations of a kind of gay exclusivity. I can see how they may be useful to get the equality we want, but I find them potentially isolating rather than integrating. I also find claims that various great figures from the past had gay relationships to be largely irrelevant. I don't want to claim Lincoln as 'one of us'; I want us to be recognised as 'a part of them'. In another way, it's the future that counts; let the past look after itself.

[RabC]

OP

I very much agree with your opinion, I just want to live my life and be left alone. I have a feeling that there will be some who say we should stand as one and be counted, but I see my sexuality the same as my political views, they are mine and I wont ram them down anyone else's throat.

I standby for incoming from "radicals"

[Jingthing]

I want there to be a "Gay State" established in Athens, Greece. Gay people all over the world would be welcomed as Gayland citizens if they can verify their gay credentials. I want to kick out all the heterosexuals except the really really CUTE ones and establish a large army of oiled naked young studs armed with phallic automatic weapons. I want gay nuclear bombs aimed directly at our biggest enemies, Iran and Alabama. Our talented Gayland scientists will soon develop the world's first GAY BOMB, a bomb that when exploded doesn't hurt anyone but makes everyone instantly ... GAY. The Gay Bomb 2.0 will be deliverable in an email that you don't even have to open and if you get the email it automatically makes everyone within a 100 mile range ... GAY. Our first president of Gayland should be Roseanne Barr. In Gayland, gay marriage would be legal, straight marriage would be illegal, but gay orgy parties would be the preferred social unit.

Homophobia? A gay-bomb armed Gayland will give them something to REALLY be afraid of!

Thanks, isanbirder for the topic.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Jingthing

[tinfoilhat]

i would have thought mileage would vary between individuals, just like with everyone else.

[isanbirder]

If you really want to go back to a sort of phoney idealisation of Classical Athens (+++), Jingthing, you can have the drachma too to pay for it.

[Jingthing]

No way. The official currency of Gayland will be the Pink Pounder (PP).

The way you posed the question, it's rather like the cultural difference in how Canada and America (in the past) have dealt with integrating minorities. Canada's tactic is more like be yourselves AND be Canadian, America is more like melt yourself down in our melting pot and be totally American. America has become more like Canada because the melting pot model is too harsh and people have resisted it.

I see the gay thing the same way. Why can't we be equal under the law AND free to be different (which sorry Charlie, different will be noticed)?

Frankly, I find the sentiment in the OP to be rather like a loud voice for blandness, meekness, and milquetoastery (sic). If you like for yourself, nobody is stopping gay people who want to strive for never being noticed as being different in any way. But no thanks. I like me some FLAVA.

This is also related to the same old same old issue of whether gay is a valid IDENTITY group or not in ways similar to ethnic minorities. I think that is an issue (and also reflects cultural differences) that is going to be around for a long, long time.

Personally I think the identity group model has been useful for gay people in many parts of the world. Will it fade away someday? Perhaps, but I think not anytime remotely soon.

A hint should be right here where we're posting. The GAY forum.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

Once I was in Skaramanga (that's about 20 miles from Athens) and a Greek sailor told me that there were too many queers in England which I thought was a bit rich.

[Jingthing]

Once I was in Skaramanga (that's about 20 miles from Athens) and a Greek sailor told me that there were too many queers in England which I thought was a bit rich.

That's a good one. An old gay boss of mine spoke fluent ancient Greek but no modern Greek, so when he finally visited Greece, he had a ball speaking ancient Greek, with very amusing results. Edited November 28, 2012 by Jingthing

[isanbirder]

The way you posed the question, it's rather like the cultural difference in how Canada and America (in the past) have dealt with integrating minorities. Canada's tactic is more like be yourselves AND be Canadian, America is more like melt yourself down in our melting pot and be totally American. America has become more like Canada because the melting pot model is too harsh and people have resisted it.

I see the gay thing the same way. Why can't we be equal under the law AND free to be different (which sorry Charlie, different will be noticed)?

Frankly, I find the sentiment in the OP to be rather like a loud voice for blandness, meekness, and milquetoastery (sic). If you like for yourself, nobody is stopping gay people who want to strive for never being noticed as being different in any way. But no thanks. I like me some FLAVA.

This is also related to the same old same old issue of whether gay is a valid IDENTITY group or not in ways similar to ethnic minorities. I think that is an issue (and also reflects cultural differences) that is going to be around for a long, long time.

Personally I think the identity group model has been useful for gay people in many parts of the world. Will it fade away someday? Perhaps, but I think not anytime remotely soon.

A hint should be right here where we're posting. The GAY forum.

Yes, a perfectly valid viewpoint, JT. I wasn't putting my ideas forward as exclusively right!

My own view is that the identity group approach is a means to an end, not an end in itself, just as Gay Pride is. My hope is that one day, probably not in my lifetime, people, including gay people, will say, Gay Pride? What's all the fuss about? Just as there shouldn't be any need for a Gay Forum.... but there is.

Free to be different, of course.... but not all different in the same way! We are perhaps in danger of creating a gay stereotype.... and I don't like stereotypes of any kind.

Edited November 28, 2012 by isanbirder

[endure]

I'm with Greta on this - I just want to be left alone...

[Jingthing]

What's next? Bourgeois gay people lobbying against public nudity in San Francisco?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/11/san_francisco_s_nudity_ban_is_gay_marriage_making_homosexuals_conservative.html

[endure]

The USA may be the Greatest Nation on Earth but I'm profoundly grateful that I don't live there

[Jingthing]

The USA may be the Greatest Nation on Earth but I'm profoundly grateful that I don't live there

Especially Philadelphia!

I once spent a year in Philadelphia, I think it was on a Sunday.

W.C. Fields

NOT GAY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYCFMBC7GIo&feature=related

Edited November 28, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

No way. The official currency of Gayland will be the Pink Pounder (PP).

[tinfoilhat]

I decided to revert to the internet to find out waht gays reeally want, and all i could find is what gays dont want you to know.

perhaps it deserves a topic unto itself:

I will let the powers that be decide:

http://gawker.com/5873476/the-secrets-gay-men-dont-want-straight-people-to-know

[tinfoilhat]

No way. The official currency of Gayland will be the Pink Pounder (PP).

would you use quatrer pounders to make change?

[Jingthing]

No way. The official currency of Gayland will be the Pink Pounder (PP).

would you use quatrer pounders to make change?

Obviously, McDonald's would be banned from Gayland. Culinary standards must be met.

[Jingthing]

I decided to revert to the internet to find out waht gays reeally want, and all i could find is what gays dont want you to know.

perhaps it deserves a topic unto itself:

I will let the powers that be decide:

http://gawker.com/58...-people-to-know

My favorite one:

We Don't Love Drag Queens As Much As You Do

So true.

[tinfoilhat]

No way. The official currency of Gayland will be the Pink Pounder (PP).

would you use quatrer pounders to make change?

Obviously, McDonald's would be banned from Gayland. Culinary standards must be met.

fair enough, but why have a president wheen you could have a GAYlord

[Jingthing]

fair enough, but why have a president wheen you could have a GAYlord

Gay people don't say Gaylord. Now you know.

[Jingthing]

What's next? Bourgeois gay people lobbying against public nudity in San Francisco?

http://www.slate.com...nservative.html

OMG, maybe those San Francisco gays aren't so bourgeois after all? Those gays -- you just can't pin them down! The gays are heterogeneous, you gotta love that.

Some Gays Like Public Penis, Some Gays Don't

(I'd start a poll on that question, public penis or not, but perhaps too edgy?)

To say their representative power might be limited is an understatement. They cannot speak for a group of individuals as massive and heterogeneous as “gay America,” and Saletan shouldn’t try to, either.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

What's a 'public penis'?

[tombkk]

I want there to be a "Gay State" established in Athens, Greece. Gay people all over the world would be welcomed as Gayland citizens if they can verify their gay credentials. I want to kick out all the heterosexuals except the really really CUTE ones and establish a large army of oiled naked young studs armed with phallic automatic weapons. I want gay nuclear bombs aimed directly at our biggest enemies, Iran and Alabama. Our talented Gayland scientists will soon develop the world's first GAY BOMB, a bomb that when exploded doesn't hurt anyone but makes everyone instantly ... GAY. The Gay Bomb 2.0 will be deliverable in an email that you don't even have to open and if you get the email it automatically makes everyone within a 100 mile range ... GAY. Our first president of Gayland should be Roseanne Barr. In Gayland, gay marriage would be legal, straight marriage would be illegal, but gay orgy parties would be the preferred social unit.

Homophobia? A gay-bomb armed Gayland will give them something to REALLY be afraid of!

Thanks, isanbirder for the topic.

Ah, no thanks. The first time I went to the Castro (San Francisco), I thought if I had to live here, I'd turn straight. I also understand that there was a project for a gay city in Thailand (in Nakorn Nayok province?) which didn't take off.

As Boy George said when I experienced him live at a Gay Mardi Gras party in Sydney sometime in the 1990s: "Remember, be nice to heterosexuals: It takes two of them to make one of us."

In fact, I am all for integration. It shouldn't matter whether you are black or white, jewish christian moslem or buddhist, gay or straight, man or woman, singer or football player, or whatever.

[tombkk]

It's not the "Pink Pound", it's the "Pink Dollar":

http://media.smh.com.au/business/businessday/big-brands-chasing-the-pink-dollar-3411999.html

http://www.cbc.ca/undertheinfluence/season-1/2012/06/02/lgbt-advertising-chasing-the-pink-dollar/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_money

Advertising companies have known about it for decades.

[endure]

Ah, no thanks. The first time I went to the Castro (San Francisco), I thought if I had to live here, I'd turn straight. I also understand that there was a project for a gay city in Thailand (in Nakorn Nayok province?) which didn't take off.

As Boy George said when I experienced him live at a Gay Mardi Gras party in Sydney sometime in the 1990s: "Remember, be nice to heterosexuals: It takes two of them to make one of us."

I had quite a good time down the Castro

Let's not forget that Boy George said that he preferred a 'nice cup of tea' to sex. Given the choice between a cup of PG Tips and a shag with Josh Hartnett I'm afraid it's Josh every time

[endure]

It's not the "Pink Pound", it's the "Pink Dollar":

When Jing said the 'Pink Pounder' I'm afraid it wasn't an image of a pound note that popped into my head...

[Jingthing]

It's not the "Pink Pound", it's the "Pink Dollar":

When Jing said the 'Pink Pounder' I'm afraid it wasn't an image of a pound note that popped into my head...

Yeah! Somebody gets me.

[endure]

I decided to revert to the internet to find out waht gays reeally want, and all i could find is what gays dont want you to know.

perhaps it deserves a topic unto itself:

I will let the powers that be decide:

http://gawker.com/58...-people-to-know

I quite liked number 3

[Jingthing]

The list was overall pretty good, but I do hate poppers. Smells like I imagine embalming fluid would smell like if I knew what it smelled like. Poppers might be a wedge issue.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jingthing

[tombkk]

It's not the "Pink Pound", it's the "Pink Dollar":

When Jing said the 'Pink Pounder' I'm afraid it wasn't an image of a pound note that popped into my head...

Yeah! Somebody gets me.

Oh sorry! I'm a bit naive sometimes...