Ex-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit ' To Face Murder Charge ': Officials

[Thaddeus]

Quite a few posters have used the term "appropriate response" as the taxi driver was "only" armed with a slingshot, which despite protests is still a weapon capable of causing severe injuries and possibly death. Admittedly it is a pretty poor weapon compared to a military rifle, but do you expect soldiers to ignore you because you are under-armed?

Soldiers are not issued with slingshots, and their policy is to use overwhelming force to prevent loss of their own, avoiding as much as possible a "fair fight."

Bringing a knife to a gunfight is silly, popping out of concealment holding a slingshot while troops are firing is terminally stupid.

Only dictators use the army to turn against their compatriots, civilized countries use riotpolice. Soldiers are not trained to handle riots.

not correct, the police are a generally civil force, the army have been used when weapons are used/produced in civil disturbances - even in the UK

Especially when the police are found to be incapable of keeping the peace, or in this instance unwilling, there are no other options.

[rubl]

Two things:

1) What does that have to do with the government. LM charges can be lodged by anyone.

2) One of the reasons there was an increase of LM charges is because the red shirts were breaking more LM laws.

Nice attempt to deflect responsibility from the government of the day. However Abhisit himself must have thought LM the government's responsibility as he was talking about law reform in 2009. Showed his insincerity though as earlier this year he was attacking Yingluck on the issue telling her the law should not be amended. His government clearly used Article 112 for political gain, rather than protecting the Monarchy.

The bigger picture includes the massive increase in media censorship including the introduction of the cyber crimes law, and the setting up of the war room to censor the internet, at a cost of B500m to the taxpayer.

“The upcoming elections can hardly be credible if the government closes down opposition radio stations and websites,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “This government came into office saying it was committed to protecting rights, but it has become the most prolific censor in recent Thai history.”

http://asiancorrespo...t-thai-history/

It seems it's easier to mix up timelines than to stick to the topic at hand.

The article quoted is from April, 2011, the war room was setup under the current government.

December, 2011

"The several cyber surveillance units know full well their painstaking actions would not help curb or ameliorate any of their concerns. But they are all happy and proud of their works following orders. Better still, the annual budget for their activities which began in earnest in 2001 with a few million baht start-up has now reached an amazing half a billion baht yearly with a special war room at Ministry of Information and Communication Technology. Under the Yingluck government, the snowball effect is getting worse, the cybercrime units will be further boost with extra personnel and budget. After a new panel was set up recently to fight against anti-monarchy on the Internet and headed by mercurial Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung including the procurement of Bt400-million lawful interception (LI) system, now the government has the licence to prey on all forms of voice communications, e-mails, SMS massages and chat rooms. In nutshell, nothing is out of reach for interception orders."

http://www.nationmul...e-30172137.html

[smedly]

Also, out of the 91 deaths that took place during the 2010 riots how come they can only find one that they think they can present in court ?

Surely going by the logic of the DSI the government is responsible for all the deaths that occured - in fact if the government hadn't been in office there would have been no civil disturbance at all so just blame the whole lot on AV - case solved shut the door on the way out

[ratcatcher]

Thaksin is running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate.

I think one thing we can rest assured of is that the accused, Mr Abhisit, an honorable man, will not do a 'runner' like some other well known characters in these parts.

[ratcatcher]

Also, out of the 91 deaths that took place during the 2010 riots how come they can only find one that they think they can present in court ?

Surely going by the logic of the DSI the government is responsible for all the deaths that occured - in fact if the government hadn't been in office there would have been no civil disturbance at all so just blame the whole lot on AV - case solved shut the door on the way out

Grasping at straws comes to mind.

[geriatrickid]

a good move by the government

open up this one and then open up the 1500 killed by the drug crackdown a few years back

means more charges on Thaksin

Unfortunately for you, there were multiple inquests in to the conduct of the Thaksin government and none of the charges or allegations could be substantiated. Need a reminder?

- The 2003-2004 inquiry did not find sufficient evidence to warrant criminal charges.

- After the 2006 coup, the military junta appointed a special committee and it investigated. It did not bring charges .

- The Abhisit government held another inquiry Abhisit denied that the probe was politically motivated. (Right.) Abhisit's investigation failed to find anything that would support charges against Thaksin or members of his Government. Try as they did, the Democrats couldn't make a case on extrajudicial killings.

Thaksin came through multiple investigations unscathed and unlike Abhisit, Thaksin he received support from Thailand's most important citizens. (A quick check of the history and you will see who those people were. Although public knowledge, I do not wish to run afoul of TV rules by being more specific, but you can easily find a very strong speech in support of the drug war.)

Now, let's see how Abhisit fares with an investigation. The circumstances will be no less fair than those at the time of the junta's and Abhisit's government inquiries.

BTW, there is a strong legal basis inwhich to hold a government responsible for crimes against the population. Doesn't nmatter who it is. It could have been Thaksin, and the legal basis to investigate is there. I don't think Abhisit is guilty. However, he makes a nice sacrifical lamb. I don't think the military would allow any of its own command officers to be investigated.

[Robby nz]

Didnt I hear a few days ago after mobilising 50,000 cops in full riot gear against a rally that threatened no one and if I understand correctly had permits to gather, the present PM saying that it was the Govts job to maintain law and order.

Yes I did, but it seems it was not the job of the previous Govt to do the same thing against a mob of rioters who had done so much damage and threatened so much more.

[geriatrickid]

Thaksin is running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate.

I think one thing we can rest assured of is that the accused, Mr Abhisit, an honorable man, will not do a 'runner' like some other well known characters in these parts.

Prime Minister Thaksin did not do a runner when the first investigations were effected. He was already out of the country when Abhisit held his witch hunt investigation.

[ableguy]

Makes Micky mouse seem like a law proffesor, as someone said earlier only in Thailand. How can anyone take this bunch of thieves serious ?

[Skywalker69]

He said his department would summon both Abhisit and Suthep, now MPs with the opposition Democrat Party, to acknowledge the charge next Wednesday.

"I expect both to report on the set date and not try to delay until December 21, the day the parliamentary session starts, enabling them to obtain parliamentary immunity," he said.

Slow down Tarit!! Why are you in such a hurry? Ahh.. I see, almost Christmas.

Bet he is of to Dubai soon for his gift.

[15Peter20]

Thaksin is running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate.

He's been running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate for years now. I wonder how much more devoid of ideas and desperate he can become before he finally runs out of ideas and is officially completely desperate.

[geriatrickid]

Didnt I hear a few days ago after mobilising 50,000 cops in full riot gear against a rally that threatened no one and if I understand correctly had permits to gather, the present PM saying that it was the Govts job to maintain law and order.

Yes I did, but it seems it was not the job of the previous Govt to do the same thing against a mob of rioters who had done so much damage and threatened so much more.

Maybe the government did not wish to make the same mistakes as did the Abhisit government?

Give them credit for not making a mess of it. The opportunities for mayhem were removed.

[Nickymaster]

Didnt I hear a few days ago after mobilising 50,000 cops in full riot gear against a rally that threatened no one and if I understand correctly had permits to gather, the present PM saying that it was the Govts job to maintain law and order.

Yes I did, but it seems it was not the job of the previous Govt to do the same thing against a mob of rioters who had done so much damage and threatened so much more.

In 2010 the police vanished when the Reds arrived. There was no law (enforcement) and order in Bangkok for weeks (months) during the protest period. A big difference from what we saw 2 weeks ago, over a hundred arrests with 2 hours!!

If the police would have done their job, the army didn't have to clean it up. Problem with the Thai police force is that they are corrupt as hell, hence the close relationship with the criminal fugitive Thaksin.

Thaksin was ready to sacrifice his beloved reds in order to tell the world “The trigger happy Thai army kills innocent people”. A truly sick game. Please be reminded that the government at that time had already promised elections within 6 months. At first everybody seemed to like it until Thaksin said NO (in fact his workers, the Red shirt leaders at that time rejected the proposal). That’s when the situation went out of control. Thaksin and the rest of his Shin clan will have to pay for this (one day). In fact, I believe they are already paying for it. I can’t imagine anybody in the Shin clan to have a happy life. Not now and not in the future.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Nickymaster

[rubl]

Didnt I hear a few days ago after mobilising 50,000 cops in full riot gear against a rally that threatened no one and if I understand correctly had permits to gather, the present PM saying that it was the Govts job to maintain law and order.

Yes I did, but it seems it was not the job of the previous Govt to do the same thing against a mob of rioters who had done so much damage and threatened so much more.

In 2010 the police vanished when the Reds arrived. There was no law (enforcement) and order in Bangkok for weeks (months) during the protest period. A big difference from what we saw 2 weeks ago, over a hundred arrests with 2 hours!!

If the police would have done their job, the army didn't have to clean it up. Problem with the Thai police force is that they are corrupt as hell, hence the close relationship with the criminal fugitive Thaksin.

Thaksin was ready to sacrifice his beloved reds in order to tell the world “The trigger happy Thai army kills innocent people”. A truly sick game. Please be reminded that the government at that time had already promised elections within 6 months. At first everybody seemed to like it until Thaksin said NO (in fact his workers, the Red shirt leaders at that time rejected the proposal). That’s when the situation went out of control. Thaksin and the rest of his Shin clan will have to pay for this (one day). In fact, I believe they are already paying for it. I can’t imagine anybody in the Shin clan to have a happy life. Not now and not in the future.

I do not understand people keep on mentioning k. Thaksin in this topic. Thaksin was not involved, he stood very, very far from the UDD and supporters, who he didn't know anyway. He was just enjoying his self-exile, shopping in Paris with his daughters. Things like that.

Edited December 7, 2012 by rubl

[whybother]

Two things:

1) What does that have to do with the government. LM charges can be lodged by anyone.

2) One of the reasons there was an increase of LM charges is because the red shirts were breaking more LM laws.

Nice attempt to deflect responsibility from the government of the day. However Abhisit himself must have thought LM the government's responsibility as he was talking about law reform in 2009. Showed his insincerity though as earlier this year he was attacking Yingluck on the issue telling her the law should not be amended. His government clearly used Article 112 for political gain, rather than protecting the Monarchy.

The bigger picture includes the massive increase in media censorship including the introduction of the cyber crimes law, and the setting up of the war room to censor the internet, at a cost of B500m to the taxpayer.

“The upcoming elections can hardly be credible if the government closes down opposition radio stations and websites,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “This government came into office saying it was committed to protecting rights, but it has become the most prolific censor in recent Thai history.”

http://asiancorrespo...t-thai-history/

The government are responsible for changing the laws. Abhisit wanted to reform the LM laws because of how they were being used.

The Cyber Crimes law was introduced in 2007 and it was Chalerm who spent 400 million baht in 2011 to set up an LM war room.

[whybother]

Didnt I hear a few days ago after mobilising 50,000 cops in full riot gear against a rally that threatened no one and if I understand correctly had permits to gather, the present PM saying that it was the Govts job to maintain law and order.

Yes I did, but it seems it was not the job of the previous Govt to do the same thing against a mob of rioters who had done so much damage and threatened so much more.

Maybe the government did not wish to make the same mistakes as did the Abhisit government?

Give them credit for not making a mess of it. The opportunities for mayhem were removed.

The opportunities for mayhem were removed by the protesters not having guns and grenades.

[animatic]

Didnt I hear a few days ago after mobilising 50,000 cops in full riot gear against a rally that threatened no one and if I understand correctly had permits to gather, the present PM saying that it was the Govts job to maintain law and order.

Yes I did, but it seems it was not the job of the previous Govt to do the same thing against a mob of rioters who had done so much damage and threatened so much more.

Maybe the government did not wish to make the same mistakes as did the Abhisit government?

Give them credit for not making a mess of it. The opportunities for mayhem were removed.

Or created early on, before protestor reinforcements could be called in.

They needed to make it look as small as possible early on, so it wouldn't look popular.

[rixalex]

a good move by the government

open up this one and then open up the 1500 killed by the drug crackdown a few years back

means more charges on Thaksin

The War on Drugs had 'official' sanction though. Not to mention it was universally popular at the time.

Yes that is always worth a mention isn't it - it was popular so that somehow makes it ok.

Complete nonsense. Popularity has no bearing whatsoever on culpability of what a government does. If you think it does then you should consider that there was also wide support for the government forcibly clearing the streets in 2010, after things had been dragging on for weeks. People wanted action and i believe people were fully aware that whatever the action was, it would result in injury if not death, both to protesters and to soldiers. Not that as i say, public support has any bearing on culpability. Please all of the war on drugs excusers like yourself, stop implying that it does.

[jcw]

...and the dance continues.

+1

+2 Edited December 7, 2012 by jcw

[Baerboxer]

Didnt I hear a few days ago after mobilising 50,000 cops in full riot gear against a rally that threatened no one and if I understand correctly had permits to gather, the present PM saying that it was the Govts job to maintain law and order.

Yes I did, but it seems it was not the job of the previous Govt to do the same thing against a mob of rioters who had done so much damage and threatened so much more.

Maybe the government did not wish to make the same mistakes as did the Abhisit government?

Give them credit for not making a mess of it. The opportunities for mayhem were removed.

Yes - removed by threat and intimidation. No democracy please, or our 23k "police volunteers" will get annoyed. You are right though, in that the Abhisit government were far too tolerant of an illegal destructive group ot terrorists.

[whybother]

The honourable k. Abhisit, don't make me laugh. If he had an ounce of the stuff, being a so called democrat, he'd never have taken the job in the first place. A mere puppet, that's all, installed by a judicial coup! A real democrat would have declined and an election could have ensued.

As for taksin being desperate, well, according to the haters he's running the place by proxy, how does that make him desperate?

It was the PTP that went to the parliament to elect a new PM. If Abhisit had declined, it would have led to a PTP PM or maybe just someone else.

If the red shirts have a problem with Abhisit being elected PM, they should be angry at the PTP for not calling an election, or at the MPs that elected him PM.

I think it mythology that the red shirt phenomena was the brainchild of the notorious exile, that's just yellow propaganda, it originated as a grass roots reaction of the 'people' to what was another takeover by hidden puppeteers. Abhisit could well have been a viable and successful prime minister but failed at the first hurdle simply by accepting the job. As for 500 baht a day protesters, the very same accusations apply to the earlier yellow incidents, which broke many laws as did the red events and did not result in a military crackdown. Taksin could quite easily have treated the yellows with the same force, but he did not.

The red shirts originated well before Abhisit became PM and well after the coup, so I think it's you that is talking about mythology.

I have heard anecdotal accounts of police being threatened at gunpoint by armed forces personnel prior to the escalation of the violence in 2010. There are so many hidden agendas within this story and charges being laid may help to expose the truth, but, let's not allow the truth to get in the way of a good story.

Anecdotal accounts? That's an easy way to spout BS without providing any evidence.

At the time of the crack down on drugs, offenders were identified and were warned in writing to desist or face arrest. I suppose the possibility of a lifetime in jail precipitated armed resistance to police that then escalated to the wave of drug related deaths. An account of police arriving to a house known as a drug factory only to be shot at, with 2 officers killed before any exchange of pleasantries, resulting in a revenge attack where there were no survivors was not considered outrageous by the locals. In fact, not that long ago, justice was often served by 'employees' of the village mayor to rid the village of the occasional bad egg. Remember, this is Thailand and life is cheap, not only in an economic sense.

If the offenders were warned, which led to armed resistance, why were 2500+ INNOCENT people killed? You know, people that had NOTHING to do with drugs.

[whybother]

Abhisit could have called an election and everybody could have gone home. He was not democratically elected, end of story. Had he an ounce of democrat in him he may well have won over the populace and be a democratically elected prime minister today.

PTP could have called an election after the PPP was disbanded, but they chose not to. They can't complain about someone else being elected PM just because of their bad decisions.

[Baerboxer]

Quite a few posters have used the term "appropriate response" as the taxi driver was "only" armed with a slingshot, which despite protests is still a weapon capable of causing severe injuries and possibly death. Admittedly it is a pretty poor weapon compared to a military rifle, but do you expect soldiers to ignore you because you are under-armed?

Soldiers are not issued with slingshots, and their policy is to use overwhelming force to prevent loss of their own, avoiding as much as possible a "fair fight."

Bringing a knife to a gunfight is silly, popping out of concealment holding a slingshot while troops are firing is terminally stupid.

Only dictators use the army to turn against their compatriots, civilized countries use riotpolice. Soldiers are not trained to handle riots.

Yes soldiers are!

[Hugo6]

Abhisit could have called an election and everybody could have gone home. He was not democratically elected, end of story. Had he an ounce of democrat in him he may well have won over the populace and be a democratically elected prime minister today.

PTP could have called an election after the PPP was disbanded, but they chose not to. They can't complain about someone else being elected PM just because of their bad decisions.

not true

a government needed to be formed first

military took care of the rest

[keith101]

What is "article 288 of the murder provision under Thailand's criminal code"?

edit: found this:

Section 288 Whoever, murdering the other person, shall be imprisoned by death or imprisoned as from fifteen years to twenty years.

http://www.samuifors...penal-code.html

Not sure if it is the correct "article", cos it doesn't make sense.

since when did thai law make sense

[Lite Beer]

Ex-Thai PM, aide to hear DSI murder charges Thursday

BANGKOK, Dec 7 – Former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and former deputy premier Suthep Thuagsuban will appear before the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) next Thursday to acknowledge charges of conspiring in the murder of anti-government protesters during the 2010 political upheaval in Bangkok.

The Democrat Party leader and Democrat MP for Surat Thani were officially asked to present themselves before the DSI next Wednesday to acknowledge the charges concluded by the DSI-led tripartite committee yesterday.

The DSI implicated the pair with murder charges in light of the Criminal Court’s ruling that taxi driver Phan Kamkong was shot dead by soldiers under the command of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) which was specially set up to deal with the civil protest.

The charges were made against Mr Abhisit in his capacity as prime minister overseeing CRES and Mr Suthep who was appointed the agency’s director.

Mr Abhisit said he will acknowledge the charges at the DSI next Thursday, a day after his return from an overseas trip.

The former premier said, “Mr Suthep and I are not above the law. We are willing to cooperate in the judicial process. The charges are without surprise given direct and indirect signals pressuring us to accept the amnesty law which Mr Suthep and I will not compromise.

“Even though the punishment is jail term or execution, we will accept it. We will fight under the rule of law without fleeing. Don’t waste (your) time trying to compromise with us.”The Democrat leader indicated that the statement by DSI chief Tarit Pengdith yesterday was in line with a similar account earlier made by Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubumrung.

Mr Suthep said he told the DSI and police several times that he was solely responsible for ordering specific CRES actions during the 2010 protest in his capacity as its director.

“But the attempt to implicate Mr Abhisit has never stopped. Taking legal action against me alone is too weak to press on with the amnesty law. That’s why Mr Abhisit is dragged into it,” he said.

He added that the DSI was rushing to press the charges and demand their acknowledgment before December 20 when Parliament will reconvene and they will be automatically entitled to parliamentary immunity. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-12-07

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed and will continue to be removed. This topic is not an invitation to rehash the events of 2010, there are other topics still open in which to do so.

Some more off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Nickymaster]

What do you do when charges are made against you?

2 examples:

-Abhisit acknowledges the charges and fights them in a Thai court.

-Thaksin flees the country, hires a PR machine to tell the world all charges are politically motivated, starts a violent movement, intimidates judges and tries to whitewash himself.

Have a nice and peaceful weekend folks!

Edited December 7, 2012 by Nickymaster

[Skywalker69]

Thaksin is running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate.

I think one thing we can rest assured of is that the accused, Mr Abhisit, an honorable man, will not do a 'runner' like some other well known characters in these parts.

Agreed.

[FarangTalk]

a good move by the government

open up this one and then open up the 1500 killed by the drug crackdown a few years back

means more charges on Thaksin

The War on Drugs had 'official' sanction though. Not to mention it was universally popular at the time.

Yes that is always worth a mention isn't it - it was popular so that somehow makes it ok.

Complete nonsense. Popularity has no bearing whatsoever on culpability of what a government does. If you think it does then you should consider that there was also wide support for the government forcibly clearing the streets in 2010, after things had been dragging on for weeks. People wanted action and i believe people were fully aware that whatever the action was, it would result in injury if not death, both to protesters and to soldiers. Not that as i say, public support has any bearing on culpability. Please all of the war on drugs excusers like yourself, stop implying that it does.

Not excusing it... I was one of the most vocal opponents of it at the time. I was merely explaining why there will be no investigation. Key word is 'sanctioned'.

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