Thailand Plans To Run Chinese High-Speed Railway System

[fareastguy]

While sitting back enjoying your ultra high speed travel on a low cost Chinese designed train operated by Thai engineers what's the last thing to go through your mind??

Your arse !!

I think I will stick to a more confrontational mode of transport until all the wrinkles have been ironed out.. about 10 years !!

[whybother]

While sitting back enjoying your ultra high speed travel on a low cost Chinese designed train operated by Thai engineers what's the last thing to go through your mind??

Your arse !!

I think I will stick to a more confrontational mode of transport until all the wrinkles have been ironed out.. about 10 years !!

The wrinkles won't have even started in 10 years.

[OzMick]

Has anybody done any figures on the economic viability of this scheme? If the fares are to be cheap, how many passengers per year to cover running costs, let alone recover construction debts?

Until I can be convinced there is a need for this service, and that it will pay for itself, it looks to me like a huge corruption cow to be milked mercilessly.

Edited December 8, 2012 by OzMick

[rubl]

"high-speed railway systems designed to have time-saving, inexpensive trains for long-distance commuters shuttling between Bangkok and the northern city of Chiang Mai and between the capital and northeastern province of Nong Khai." "Bangkok-Chiang Mai route estimated at US$10 billion and the Bangkok-Nong Khai route which costs US$6.6 billion" "The railway project for both routes will be completed until 2015"

Now really. THB 500 billion spent in two and a half year to be able to support long-distance commuters? Must be an awfull lot of them

BTW:

August 2011

"The previous Thai government had agreed in principal to borrow $400 million from China, which would be spent on materials to construct the high-speed railways, with Chinese engineers providing expertise.

...

She gave no timeframe for completion of the three routes."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/23/uk-thailand-rail-idUSLNE77M04B20110823

May 2012

"The Transport Minister has expressed confidence that the first high speed railway connecting Bangkok and Chiang Mai will be ready for service by 2018."

http://thailand-business-news.com/tourism/38573-bangkok-chiang-mai-high-speed-rail-ready-by-2018

November 30th, 2012

"The government plans to open international bidding early next year on the first phase of the high-speed rail project. The 400-billion-baht first phase is scheduled to be completed in 2018."

http://www.huahintoday.com/thailand_news/high-speed-rail-project-for-thailand/

[colinneil]

Thais couldnt run a piss up in a brewery, no chance they could ever run a high speed rail link, pieces would be missing because some high ranking pr..k wants his piece of the action , to help pay for his mia noi

[ratcatcher]

Has anybody done any figures on the economic viability of this scheme? If the fares are to be cheap, how many passengers per year to cover running costs, let alone recover construction debts?

Until I can be convinced there is a need for this service, and that it will pay for itself, it looks to me like a huge corruption cow to be milked mercilessly.

Thank God!

At last someone has mentioned the all important words" ECONOMIC VIABILITY" and "CORRUPTION COW"

China has a population of over 1,300,000,000 Thailand has about 66,000,000.

China has many major cities with millions of people plus it has a huge industrial base.

Thailand has one major city, Bangkok, and most industrial areas are within a few hundred kilometres of Bangkok, mostly down the eastern seaboard..

It may sound exciting and sexy for Thailand to have HS Trains, but in actual fact this is all planned in order for certain politicians, their families and cronies to get on board the High Speed Gravy Train.

[Psych01]

I vaguely remember a friend of mine saying, about 2 years back, that this HST thing was supposed to happen a long time ago - start that is - before, when a certain Thaksin was in control. The only difference then, it was finely supposed to end up going into China and on to all the main cities there. Could this be the beginning of it?

[malcyx]

i hope the other trains will still run..

last one i took was apparently first class ten hours to Khon Kaen lol..

stopped a hundred times at every station, lots of poor farmers selling food and stuff, was good experience ...

If this goes ahead, it will go through Burma eventually (thats my opinion not fact) and link to India and china up north, along with the new road thats getting built to link India and China right now...The chinese are coming and when they come it will be in there thousands,tens of thousands and the indians..North thailand will be over run in next ten twenty years maybe less...The chinese dnt hang around once they start invading countries lol, and no body has the balls to take them on, they are the most powerfull nation by far...cant fight them, just take there money n suffer later ....

thats my humble opinion of whats gonna happen in North thailand, burma too..

Has good points and bad... cant halt "progress"...

[Elfin]

I was a "commuter" between Tianjin and Beijing for 3 years on the CPH High Speed Trains. My fastest travel was at 334kph, but this was slowed to 300kph after the big crash elsewhere. It was perfectly safe, and as others have said, VERY smooth, and took exactly 30 minutes. The only time we were late was when one of the Chinese could not wait 15 more minutes to get to Beijing, and had a smoke in the toilet, setting off the smoke alarm, and the emergency brakes.I have the feeling that most of the control is by computer.The economy seats were very comfortable, 2+ 3, and very cheap, but 1st class was much better (2+2) and not much more expensive. I also did the Beijing-Qingdao trip at 250kph maximum in 5 hours.

This would be great news for Chiang Mai "commuters"!

[Crushdepth]

I was a "commuter" between Tianjin and Beijing for 3 years on the CPH High Speed Trains. My fastest travel was at 334kph, but this was slowed to 300kph after the big crash elsewhere. It was perfectly safe, and as others have said, VERY smooth, and took exactly 30 minutes. The only time we were late was when one of the Chinese could not wait 15 more minutes to get to Beijing, and had a smoke in the toilet, setting off the smoke alarm, and the emergency brakes.I have the feeling that most of the control is by computer.The economy seats were very comfortable, 2+ 3, and very cheap, but 1st class was much better (2+2) and not much more expensive. I also did the Beijing-Qingdao trip at 250kph maximum in 5 hours.

This would be great news for Chiang Mai "commuters"!

It was perfectly safe, except for the big crash?

I stayed off the subway until they'd had their first accident. That was foolproof too, except for the fool that forgot to put the brake on.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Crushdepth

[blackthorn2005]

well we know how safe is this Chinese fast train ... not sure I will ever take it to go to chiang mai ..I never trusted Chinese technology, specially when its based on copying European technology. China have faced so many accident with their made in china train ..... well if that what Thailand want .....have fun with spare parts and all the rest .

It will probably be coal fired

[sprq]

This report is written with extreme ignorance, not making it clear that high-speed tracks would be completely separate from the current one, not being aware that 2015 is a ridiculous completion date, and wrongly using the word commuter, just to point out a few idiocies.

But the biggest idiots are the people who want to build such a system when what the Thai railways need is simply upgrading to the kind of standard that existed in Europe 30 or so years ago, replacing the current system/rolling stock/ locomotives etc which date from about 60 years ago. You'd use the same tracks, doubled and upgraded, and at least halve all the current journey times for a fraction of the cost of this high-speed system.

Don't run before you can walk. Try to walk instead of crawling.

[ETatBKK]

Has anybody done any figures on the economic viability of this scheme? If the fares are to be cheap, how many passengers per year to cover running costs, let alone recover construction debts?

Until I can be convinced there is a need for this service, and that it will pay for itself, it looks to me like a huge corruption cow to be milked mercilessly.

Thank God!

At last someone has mentioned the all important words" ECONOMIC VIABILITY" and "CORRUPTION COW"

China has a population of over 1,300,000,000 Thailand has about 66,000,000.

China has many major cities with millions of people plus it has a huge industrial base.

Thailand has one major city, Bangkok, and most industrial areas are within a few hundred kilometres of Bangkok, mostly down the eastern seaboard..

It may sound exciting and sexy for Thailand to have HS Trains, but in actual fact this is all planned in order for certain politicians, their families and cronies to get on board the High Speed Gravy Train.

bring Bangkok and Chiangmai together, any GPD growth ?

build another multi billion infrastructure, any 'big pocket' growth ?

'my broxxxx did it, why not me ?'

[jimbeam1]

I wonder what happened to the project in the link below?

jb1

[Psych01]

I wonder what happened to the project in the link below?

jb1

http://www.thaivisa....h speed train

I vaguely remember a friend of mine saying, about 2 years back, that this HST thing was supposed to happen a long time ago - start that is - before, when a certain Thaksin was in control. The only difference then, it was finely supposed to end up going into China and on to all the main cities there. Could this be the beginning of it?

Thanks jimbeam1, for re-affirming what my mate told me also that it had been mentioned on here. My time scale was a bit wrong though.

[XINLOI]

Construction of the initial stage of the railway project for the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route is scheduled to begin by the middle or second half of next year. The railway project for both routes will be completed until 2015.

Not sure what the last few words mean, but this is not a 2 year project.

Completely replacing the railway lines and building high speed tracks between the capital and the two northern cities is surely more like a 10 year project?

Perhaps someone with engineering knowledge might add something to this fantasy.

They won't be replacing the railway lines. The high speed tracks will be separate.

Thing is, they need to learn how to lay the track first. They are doing this now from the main line from Nong Khai to god knows where. You cannot run fast trains on the stuff they replaced it with. Too many humps and dips to run a train fast. It will jump the rails.......

[MESmith]

The section from Den Chai to Chiang Mai is going to be a challenge for HST.

[WhizBang]

Earlier this year, we took the night train (said express on the ticket) to Nong Khai. It took just over 16 hours!

A high speed train covering the distance in 3 hours would be nice. I just do not see it happening in Thailand, at least, not in my lifetime.

For it to have ANY hope of working, they would have to eliminate all corruption first. I think pigs will fly first.

[khaowong1]

Will drivers still try to beat the fast train at road crossing !,

there are lots of accidents with the slow trains,so this is

going to be something they are going to have to put a

lot of thought to......or maybe not.

regards Worgeordie

No thought needed. Bridges.

I could not imagine there would be any road traffic crossing directly on the rails

Bookman, you and I both know this is Thailand. Don't be surprised at anything they do or don't do...

[hellodolly]

Many opinions such as

Chinese it must be.

And what do we get?

Copies of copies of copies.

Improvments on inprovments

Considering the difference in size of the Chinese population and the rest of the world that has High speed trains does any one have a stattistic on deaths per million of travelers. Or per Kilometer traveled. Or is it all just opinions.

http://pedestrianobs...ve-rail-safety/

Great site Thanks.

Edited December 8, 2012 by hellodolly

[rubl]

I really like the idea of high speed rail services but I think this is one project that is going to go off the rails in very short time.

I'm not really into extreme sports, so think I'll take my chances on the bus

Yeah because the buses are so safe eh?

Is any mode of ground travel in this country safe?

Mind you, rumour has it most people die in bed

[osiboy]

Will drivers still try to beat the fast train at road crossing !,

there are lots of accidents with the slow trains,so this is

going to be something they are going to have to put a

lot of thought to......or maybe not.

regards Worgeordie

No thought needed. Bridges.

I could not imagine there would be any road traffic crossing directly on the rails

TIT, i will bet all the tea in china that within a few weeks of completion the thais will be using short-cuts accross the tracks as they do on the roads , cutting accross the central reservation , fences will come down and never be replaced , there will be many deaths but nothing will be done , it will just continue , as it does on the roads , life is cheap here and H&S does not live in thailand either !.....rather than use a bridge within a 2 min ride thais will take the easy option and and drive directly over the tracks i garantee it , i used to live next door to a thai guy who would use his motorbike to cross the road to reach the shop opposite , all of 30 meters away , .....not many thais like to walk anywhere, if they can sit ! Edited December 8, 2012 by osiboy

[vijer]

5555

The Chinese are going to transfer their high speed train technology (copied) to the Thai engineers. The Thai engineers will then make goofy changes because "this is how we do it". The trains will never be able to reach their peak speed or anywhere close to it because the tracks will be uneven (ride the BTS and you will understand). The cues to get a ticket will be long. Like the BTS, MRT and tollways, the Thai's will figure out the worst way to handle the flow of people. All ticket booths will be located on top of the turnstiles and there will be shops selling things on top of the turnstiles, then there will not be enough turnstiles for the number of commuters, ensuring maximum congestion. The rail line will take some crazy route, not the best route, because TiT.

Also, as noted by another poster, they say the rail line will be completed by 2015? I bet they can't even get the survey done in that time. Not to mention the complexities of figuring out who is going to get the Tea Money and how much! They have been replacing the road I take to school, it is about 8 km in length, they have been working on it for over a year and it appears they will be working on it for another year. So somehow, miraculously, they will be able to build 500 km of high speed rail in 2 years?!?!

[siampolee]

Exclusive images of the high speed Chinese train destined for Thailand see below.

Interesting to note that the first fatality on the railways in England was the death of an M.P.

One wonders if history might repeat itself in years to come in Thailand ?, Ah wishful thinking no doubt!!

However Thai Railway engineers will modify the locomotives so as they are able to operate on the S.R.T. with the minimum of problems, see below

[nong38]

The use of words is a bit miss leading I feel, I take it that the plan for the route will be in place by 2015 although some will read it as being built by then, which is impossible.

Chinese railways have copied europeon technology, a lot from the TGV trains of France but I am not sure the on board signaling works as well as it should, its to be hoped they went back and looked at that after the big crash of last year. It seems like it broadly going to run along a similar route to Pitsanoluk that the railway currently uses, good idea provided they remember that trains travelling at 250-300kph need long gentle curves and the track must go nowhere near any land that is likely to flood.

A positve move, let us all hope that it turns out as planned, if so I will look forward to using it.

I think you are onto some thing with the different time lines. Thailand claiming two years and China six to seven years. I think Thailand means they will have all the graft money in two years.

Thailand is not exactly noted for it's ability to think ahead other than how to extort more money.

Good idea put it on the agenda under "any other business"!

[nong38]

Exclusive images of the high speed Chinese train destined for Thailand see below.

Interesting to note that the first fatality on the railways in England was the death of an M.P.

One wonders if history might repeat itself in years to come in Thailand ?, Ah wishful thinking no doubt!!

However Thai Railway engineers will modify the locomotives so as they are able to operate on the S.R.T. with the minimum of problems, see below

Fireworks aren't very good today, hows the tea coming along?

[alanferdi]

well we know how safe is this Chinese fast train ... not sure I will ever take it to go to chiang mai ..I never trusted Chinese technology, specially when its based on copying European technology. China have faced so many accident with their made in china train ..... well if that what Thailand want .....have fun with spare parts and all the rest .

i took it between Ningbo and Shanghai last December and it was incredible. Very smooth and fast

and even a first class ticket was very cheap compared to a similar standard in Europe such as

the Eurostar.

Chinese Techonology?????? Copies or clones I would say. If they are referring to the fast trains from Shanghai...they are German Technology, The mono rail is also German Technology....the chinese only designed it slightly different to give it their Chinese touch! Chinese do not innovate...they copy!

[Mitker]

Many opinions such as

Chinese it must be.

And what do we get?

Copies of copies of copies.

Improvments on inprovments

Considering the difference in size of the Chinese population and the rest of the world that has High speed trains does any one have a stattistic on deaths per million of travelers. Or per Kilometer traveled. Or is it all just opinions.

http://pedestrianobs...ve-rail-safety/

Great site Thanks.

If I'm right reading the introduction, suicides (pedestrian fatalities) are included. Given their relative important frequency in some countries, including them distort significantly the real risk of boarding a train.

[Konini]

If this goes ahead, it will go through Burma eventually (thats' my opinion not fact) and link to India and china up north, along with the new road that's getting built to link India and China right now...

This is exactly what I thought when I saw the headline. I remember reading somewhere last year that the Chinese are going to build a railway in Laos as part of an aid package - most of their foreign aid is assets rather than handing money over. They build things that will benefit them rather than the country they're doing it. Mostly infrastructural; roads, rail, eventually won't have to put their goods on boats and risk the pirates. Hilary Clinton went to Africa last month specifically to warn them not to take aid from China (as reported on television).

I didn't think of it going to Burma but you're right - though Burma and into India then in a way impossible for us to imagine now with new technology that will be developed long after I pop my clogs with rail tracks going through mountains and deserts. The Chinese will then have a direct route into Europe and Africa. Conspiracy theorists will be having a field day with worldwide domination. I imagine it will come, long after we've gone, our offspring will eventually be under Chinese rule..

The only cog in the wheels is India, Generally acknowledged as being 10 years behind China in progress and technology in use Close your eyes and imagine it. In 10 years time India will be building their own rail and road links to Europe. India and China both have huge population and both have nuclear weapons.

You've got to admire them though. Imagine yourself being in charge of opening new markets and routes. What would you do? This is without doubt the best way to achieve it, whoever came up with the plan should be well rewarded. Very, very clever.

The cleverest part is that the funding comes out of the foreign aid not general revenue. The people that thought this up and started it were genius.

They're really smart and sneaky in my humble opinion. But in my lifetime I probably won't even see the start of it.

[whybother]

i hope the other trains will still run..

last one i took was apparently first class ten hours to Khon Kaen lol..

stopped a hundred times at every station, lots of poor farmers selling food and stuff, was good experience ...

If this goes ahead, it will go through Burma eventually (thats my opinion not fact) and link to India and china up north, along with the new road thats getting built to link India and China right now...The chinese are coming and when they come it will be in there thousands,tens of thousands and the indians..North thailand will be over run in next ten twenty years maybe less...The chinese dnt hang around once they start invading countries lol, and no body has the balls to take them on, they are the most powerfull nation by far...cant fight them, just take there money n suffer later ....

thats my humble opinion of whats gonna happen in North thailand, burma too..

Has good points and bad... cant halt "progress"...

China doesn't need Thailand to get a railway to Burma.

Construction of China-Burma railway could start in December [2011]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Construction-of-China-Burma-railway-could-start-in-30163951.html