British And American Teachers Found Dead In Thai Home

[KRS1]

Sometimes you can get so drunk it's easier to sit straight up to let the alcohol drain from your head.

With other illegal substances it's easier to cope with dizziness and spinning when sitting straight up.

[F430murci]

I hope somebody will ask for an autopsy. That is the only way to go to determine what was the real cause of death. Somebody also will have to reexamine the Crime Scene and find that little element that has been overlooked. Everything else, you are all right, is just idle speculation.

Now this makes perfect sense. Absent mass spec or gas choreography, even alluding to drug overdose is irresponsible and a deviation from any acceptable standard.

Sometimes I wonder, how the police in your homecountries manage to solve crimes, when all the the forensic experts have migrated to Thailand??

A lot of references to old cases, all the discredit local lawenforcement at any price! The fact that the Canadian sisters died from a drugoverdose (confirmed by Canadian authorities) is ignored, because it doesn't fit the conspiracy theories.

A more recent case where an expat was killed by a fellow countryman in Phuket, caused the posters here to spew their venom over Thailand and Phuket in particular. What do you expect Thailand to do, when farang travel across the world to kill each other in their (the Thais) country.

A post here suggesting that at least one of the dead guys was a heavy druguser, is completely ignored, again because it doesn't fit the conspiracy picture.

Too funny. Yes, we should just believe an anonymous Internet poster on a message board about traveling abroad. Forget actually doing any toxicology studies or objective investigation. Case already solved.

[jrnman73]

The husband was a language teacher at a 'well-known' institute, the Thai press said, without elaborating.

The American Jonathan Louis was a current employee to Inlingua at Future Park for about 4 years. The other used to work there and was dismissed some time ago and i'm not sure when.

[F430murci]

The person spreading rumors about Canadian authorities finding OD on two young girls should be ashamed of yourself. Problem is a person spreading a rumor like that has no shame.

[nurofiend]

was there a need for the Lol?

all benzos are dangerous and potentially lethal mixed with alcohol, including valium and you certainly don't need to take 2000mgs and mix it with alcohol to get alcohol poisoning and od.

and let's remember i wrote "they could have"

My apologies if lol seemed to relate to the deaths. I am just laughing at conjecture regarding a very well documented drug with much information on contradictions. Do you know the LD50 of diazepam? Not sure I would jump to conclusion about diazepam OD being cause without such information. Hand full of APAP 500 plus alcohol would be potentially worse than a handful of blue Vs and alcohol.

fair enough re the lol, the ld50 of diazepam has far less meaning if they're downed with a load of booze though doesn't it?

that was my point... they could have taken a load of them and drank a lot of alcohol for all we know.

Lol, irresponsible to speculate about OD absent mass spec or gas chromograhpy, especially if only substances known are diazepam and alcohol. Lol, some never admit to being wrong.

The LD50 would be a starting point for any medical pathologist or medical doctor, unless perhaps the the intent is to simply classify as an OD without basing diagnosis on any documented proof or medical standard of care.

The guys would very likely be on the other side of the LD50 dose if they are not neophytes in ingesting alcohol or benzos. Let's not let that scientific stuff get in the way though when we can can speculate not only what they drank and took, but how much they ingested.

lol, lol, lol....what exactly am i wrong about?

"let's not get that scientific stuff get in the way"! is speculation on your behalf on the dosage they possibly took and whether they were mixing with a lot of booze or not.

i usually stay out of these type of threads, but suggesting diazepam may have been a factor since it was found in the room, is not exactly tinfoil hat material.

anyway, i don't enjoy people acting in a condescending manner, so carry on.

Edited December 8, 2012 by nurofiend

[tinfoilhat]

My apologies if lol seemed to relate to the deaths. I am just laughing at conjecture regarding a very well documented drug with much information on contradictions. Do you know the LD50 of diazepam? Not sure I would jump to conclusion about diazepam OD being cause without such information. Hand full of APAP 500 plus alcohol would be potentially worse than a handful of blue Vs and alcohol.

fair enough re the lol, the ld50 of diazepam has far less meaning if they're downed with a load of booze though doesn't it?

that was my point... they could have taken a load of them and drank a lot of alcohol for all we know.

Lol, irresponsible to speculate about OD absent mass spec or gas chromograhpy, especially if only substances known are diazepam and alcohol. Lol, some never admit to being wrong.

The LD50 would be a starting point for any medical pathologist or medical doctor, unless perhaps the the intent is to simply classify as an OD without basing diagnosis on any documented proof or medical standard of care.

The guys would very likely be on the other side of the LD50 dose if they are not neophytes in ingesting alcohol or benzos. Let's not let that scientific stuff get in the way though when we can can speculate not only what they drank and took, but how much they ingested.

lol, lol, lol....what exactly am i wrong about?

"let's not get that scientific stuff get in the way"! is speculation on your behalf on the dosage they possibly took and whether they were mixing with a lot of booze or not.

i usually stay out of these type of threads, but suggesting diazepam may have been a factor since it was found in the room, is not exactly tinfoil hat material.

anyway, i don't enjoy people acting in a condescending manner, so carry on.

indeed, i tend to avoid the rampant speculation that most on these threads seem to indulge in.

[robokop]

drugs kill everywhere, but many are unaware of the dangers

Where was there any mention of drugs? Or du you know something about the deaths?

No signs of violence sitting in upright position, vomit. For sure they were tortured then shot dead, silly to think drugs were the cause

[geriatrickid]

These types of threads are painful. Opinions are offered based upon incomplete short news items. How many times does it have to be said? The facts are not established and as we have seen time and time again, the details will change as more information is made public. I won't comment on the story except to say, that I will wait until there are actual facts established. We do a disservice to ourselves when we allow speculation to overtake common sense.

[tinfoilhat]

while what you say is true gk, we rarely see the follow up.

point in case is the two found in the sukhumvit hotel room.

there has been nothing since the original news item.

i suspect this will not be any different

Edited December 8, 2012 by tinfoilhat

[skorchio]

Obnoxious fumes, or some form of poisoning come to mind, RIP.

Dude, surely you mean "noxious" or perhaps "toxic" fumes; obnoxious describes a form of antisocial human behaviour.

[Tywais]

Post quoting the Bangkok Post has been removed and reply to it.

[osiboy]

sounds similar to the canadian girls that were poisoned a few months ago to me , .... spiked with insecticide wasn't it ?

[kangeroo]

as best as i can remember some time ago a person in New Zealand died in a similar way , sitting in a chair , after a few months the outcome was yes he had been drinking huge amounts of vodka but what killed him was a gas leak that he had been breathing in all night .

[Boater]

Something similar happened in the uk , and in the papers today ... Most likely poising

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244948/Two-men-killed-deadly-gases-number-victims-poisoned-faulty-cookers-eight.html

[F430murci]

My apologies if lol seemed to relate to the deaths. I am just laughing at conjecture regarding a very well documented drug with much information on contradictions. Do you know the LD50 of diazepam? Not sure I would jump to conclusion about diazepam OD being cause without such information. Hand full of APAP 500 plus alcohol would be potentially worse than a handful of blue Vs and alcohol.

fair enough re the lol, the ld50 of diazepam has far less meaning if they're downed with a load of booze though doesn't it?

that was my point... they could have taken a load of them and drank a lot of alcohol for all we know.

Lol, irresponsible to speculate about OD absent mass spec or gas chromograhpy, especially if only substances known are diazepam and alcohol. Lol, some never admit to being wrong.

The LD50 would be a starting point for any medical pathologist or medical doctor, unless perhaps the the intent is to simply classify as an OD without basing diagnosis on any documented proof or medical standard of care.

The guys would very likely be on the other side of the LD50 dose if they are not neophytes in ingesting alcohol or benzos. Let's not let that scientific stuff get in the way though when we can can speculate not only what they drank and took, but how much they ingested.

lol, lol, lol....what exactly am i wrong about?

"let's not get that scientific stuff get in the way"! is speculation on your behalf on the dosage they possibly took and whether they were mixing with a lot of booze or not.

i usually stay out of these type of threads, but suggesting diazepam may have been a factor since it was found in the room, is not exactly tinfoil hat material.

anyway, i don't enjoy people acting in a condescending manner, so carry on.

Too funny. You, not me, suggested they ODed an diazepam and booze. I said should wait until mass spec or gas choreography run and let science not forum room speculation decide it. So how the heck am I now the one speculating.

I guess you were just trying to save face by flipping that on me, otherwise I am communication with alzeheimers patient. Conversation we had went about like this: Dad, want go for a walk today. No, I am not hungry. I already ate. . .

[jasperno]

QUote MEL : so it's now a bottle - same effect.... antidepressant liquid form - still doesn't kill!!

diazepam (aka valium) is an anxiolytic NOT an antidepressant.... stones and glass houses for you ?

Edited December 8, 2012 by jasperno

[notmyself]

12 straight hours of Thai soaps.

[Markaew]

I think the lady mentioned had nothing to do with the unfortunate and untimely deaths of these two men. If she wanted to get rid of her partner, certainly she would not run the risk of harming another person unnecessarily.

My condolences to the family, friends colleagues and students.

Apparently you don't live in Thailand.

[Markaew]

the lady was living in the condominium for 2 years,

she left the whole night and did not take a key with her ??????

She had to ask the security guy?????

The dead guys locked the door behind her ? Nowing she had no key?

Maby she locked the door and then "lost" the key?

Nice alliby: " i could not have poisoned them because i was outside and had no key........"

Curious how this evolves.

My gf and I both lock the door even if the other is out without a key. If you expect the other person to be at home when you return you don't need to take a key. You don't usually take a key just in case they will be dead when you return. She probably didn't take the key because they guys said they'd be home when she got back. Nothing strange there at all. Some of you people read too much into the most innocent of things. Perhaps some of you need to get a life.

I disagree. If you are running to store and back then that is different. Out overnight? Definitely would have a key.

[Markaew]

Sat down in a comfortable position watching TV? Two of them?

I know that if i was feeling unwell i would not just sit in a chair and let it happen and because the two of them are involved in exactly the same way unmoved sitting comfortable like watching TV.

Something tells me there was an another person involved.

So please tell us how a third person killed them while getting them to sit quietly watching TV. Sounds to me like either a suicide pact or both died from drugs overdose. It is not common, but does frequently happened that two people die at the same time from a drugs overdose. The drugs would have meant they weren't capable of reacting to anything. Someone said why didn't the call for help on a mobile phone. The answer is that you can't do that if you're unconscious.

You seem to want to defend this girlfriend when she was the most likely suspect. Why they were sitting there quietly? First, you don't know they died quietly and second the bodies were probably staged to appear like it was quick death. A drug overdose is usually a go to sleep and not wake up death verses poisoning is more violent.

[Markaew]

You don't usually hear of a double suicide, since a feeling of loneliness is usually a contributing factor and a second person would likely talk the first out of such a ridiculous idea. If it was a double suicide from drug overdose you would expect them to be on the ground in pain unless they had something that worked fast and was painless. If it was something accidental how likely is it that it would kill them both at exactly the same time so neither person had the chance to recognize that something was wrong?

Why did the woman who was living there with one of the men, and I also read she was married to him, leave for the whole night with no key on the same night that this rare occurence happened? How easy is it to put an empty packet of pills in the room and plan to have someone else open the door for you later to confirm that you were not in the room?

There are a lot of important details missing from the story that should be easy to get and it is either bad journalism or the police already have their suspicions and are not ready to come out with it yet until more information is obtained.

So what you're saying is that from now on I should always to my key with me if I leave my gf at my condo alone. Because if I don't take a key and she happens to die, you will accuse me of poisoning her and not having my key so that I have an alibi. Do you realise how ridiculous you are being. Even with a key, CCTV would have recorded the coming and going, and the guards would most likely have seen her, so not having a key doesn't prove anything, except that she was expecting them to be at home when she got back. Perhaps she's away often. Why is it odd that she wasn't there when they died? If she was there she might have been able to call for help, so it's obvious that people are more likely to die when there is no-on available to call for help.

What you say is so ridiculous that it's laughable.

Again, you are avoiding the obvious. The OP said the men died 10 hours before. Isn't that overnight? She could have poisoned them, left, and came back 10 hours later.

[noitom]

They say a "single pack of Diazepam was found," but no indication of how many in a pack. We can assume one - that is a single pack? The woman was living with Louis in the apartment for 14 years. Odd that she would have to call the security guard to break through the lock and even more odd that she perceived them to be in chairs asleep. Then later awoke to find them dead in the chairs. This is really suspicious.

Condolences to the families of the to men.

[Markaew]

An acquaintance of mine died about three years ago; cause of death: mixing Valium and alcohol.

He was in his mid thirties, fit, just did the wrong combo.

It is common knowledge in the UK that this is a dangerous mixture so please be careful if you use this drug.

Both depress the nervous system. Can cool you out a bit too much. As to what happened here, can only wonder given the sparse details.

A toxicology report should reveal any untoward substances.

Yes, I posted something similar. The result is typically your heart stopping and not puking. The insecticide poisoning sounds plausible. The people that died in that Chang Mai hotel had puked as well and they dies from an insecticide.

[Arkady]

DEET cocktails?

[jacko45k]

From BP - Police initially suspected that both men probably had medical conditions.

Police always seem to say this, it's a pity they didn't finish medical school but I suppose the money is better in the police.

Diazepam was found but it sounds strange... and why did one guys partner stay out all night?

[jacko45k]

Speculating--but sounds like another poisoning to me. The Thai woman--who has been living in this condo for two years--returns in the morning and somehow does not have a key to her own domicile? Instead, she conveniently asks a security guard to open the door who then discovers the bodies? Sound like a setup for an alibi to me. What was left in the house to eat or drink? Run toxicology tests on it.

If I go out while there is someone I know will stay at the house all the time, I also don't see a reason to take a key with me.

To get back in the house with! People don't leave condos unlocked, and there is a chance the people inside would go to sleep or maybe go out themselves.....unless she knew differently.

[rogerdee123]

The article says the door was double locked which I presumed meant it was locked with deadbolt (or similar) from inside. The security guard "forced open" the door.

Speculating--but sounds like another poisoning to me. The Thai woman--who has been living in this condo for two years--returns in the morning and somehow does not have a key to her own domicile? Instead, she conveniently asks a security guard to open the door who then discovers the bodies? Sound like a setup for an alibi to me. What was left in the house to eat or drink? Run toxicology tests on it.

If I go out while there is someone I know will stay at the house all the time, I also don't see a reason to take a key with me.

To get back in the house with! People don't leave condos unlocked, and there is a chance the people inside would go to sleep or maybe go out themselves.....unless she knew differently.

[templedog]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

[shishafiesta]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

Yes, well said. Thank you.

Edited December 9, 2012 by shishafiesta

[Tazwa]

A lot of speculation about the wife here. According to a report from a well known Bangkok newspaper website, the wife had just returned from work at the Ministry of Science and Technology. Upon arriving home she found the door to be "double locked". So perhaps she did have a key but only for one lock. The question could be asked, "Why did two middle aged men need to double lock the door?"

Four bottles of a drug rehabilitation treatment were found next to the two men. The old adage, where there's smoke, there's fire often fits.