At Least 27 Dead In Connecticut School Shooting - Cbs News

[AllanB]

Seems the 2nd amendment is more important than school children...

Seems that the true misunderstanding each and every less than knowledgeable anti-gun spouting advocate is people kill people - if a person misspells a word is the fault of the pen or the writer? - if a car crashes and a person is killed is it the cars fault or the driver? - ban all pens and we will definitely make sure no-one misspells a single word again – ban all cars and we have eliminated all these nasty car crashes and needless loss of life - problems solved - yeah lets go home and feel all fuzzy about the dramatic change we have implemented that did not do anything to change the true root cause of the problem.

That’s what is wrong with the current world today - not realistic - people kill people - simple - if not a gun a knife a club a bat or any instrument - it’s all the same

That’s what is currently wrong with people dealing with something they are not capable of understanding – a sympathetic & pathetic way of dealing with all torts and laws - taking guns away from people only leaves innocent people defenseless against the real criminals that still have the illegal guns and the criminals now have the warm and fuzzy feeling there is less chance the victim has a gun bcoz they have been taken away - Duhh!!

America was founded on the thought that a man required a gun to defend himself and his family against the unknown and real threats outside his door - that same mentality still holds true to this day - if not it is needed even more today than yesterday.

This truly sad crime could have been easily prevented without burdening the entire populous with gun controls and taking away 2^nd amendment rights. It’s all quite simple but again – there are those that must complicate the world with their over engineered thinking. Simply put the school should have had security - that’s the key weak link in this tragedy - if this 20 yr old boy was twisted off at his parents and went for revenge - he should have been stopped at the doors and not allowed in without authorization

you might want to check the stats on gun related deaths in other countries pardner, USA tops the list by a lightyear buzz ...just sayin

then again, there may be something in the water supply

Comparing the rate of gun crime between countries and their corresponding laws never works, due to a number of historical and cultural differences. The actual firearms homicide rate in America has been hovering around 3 per 100,000 of the population, and has been decreasing in recent years. Thailand's rate is about 33 per 100,000; more than 10 times higher, although I believe there are few cities of Bangkok's size that are safer from violent crime. There are deeper issues within the society, history, and economic status of each country that will directly influence the number of massacres that take place.

Well sure if you compare two countries without strict gun laws anything can happen, it just proves lots of guns kill lots of people.

What about if you compare two more similar countries, one without strict gun laws and one with.

As you said the USA rate is 3 per 100,000, but the UK is 100 times less at 0.03 per 100,000. That is comparison to make.

Something you won't hear on Fox I am sure.....

I must say it is worrying to discover that Thailand has 1,000 time more gun related homicides than the UK.

Edited December 15, 2012 by AllanB

[Basil B]

I just spoke to someone in that town.

The gun was registered to the killer's mom whom he killed as well.

Have people never heard of gun safes ?

To be honest, here in the UK you have to use gun safes for firearms but they are really not that secure, opened one last week for someone who had his keys stolen, took 30 mins because my methode of entry was none destructive, cound have opend it in seconds but would have damaged it.

Just saw a moron on CNN trying to explain that more guns would result in lower casualties............ First time I also saw a presenter real angry but I think this is be the way it goes. The shooters are crazy and not the mentally of most gun owners. When I was over there visiting a friend one of his employees son killed the day before someone to take 10 US and dad was normally working because as he told "it was something that happens"

I do not care what the morons of the USA do in their back yard, but it is their attitude that every country should allow their citizens to have unlimited firearms, anything to do with the fact that the USA has over 100 gun manufactures?

Yet another quoted here incidents worldwide from the last 3 decades which on reflection dose not even come close to events of the last 3 years in the states.

No doubt we in the UK must now be on the alert for a copycat mad man (or woman).

[venturalaw]

I just spoke to someone in that town.

The gun was registered to the killer's mom whom he killed as well.

Have people never heard of gun safes ?

To be honest, here in the UK you have to use gun safes for firearms but they are really not that secure, opened one last week for someone who had his keys stolen, took 30 mins because my methode of entry was none destructive, cound have opend it in seconds but would have damaged it.

Just saw a moron on CNN trying to explain that more guns would result in lower casualties............ First time I also saw a presenter real angry but I think this is be the way it goes. The shooters are crazy and not the mentally of most gun owners. When I was over there visiting a friend one of his employees son killed the day before someone to take 10 US and dad was normally working because as he told "it was something that happens"

I do not care what the morons of the USA do in their back yard, but it is their attitude that every country should allow their citizens to have unlimited firearms, anything to do with the fact that the USA has over 100 gun manufactures?

Yet another quoted here incidents worldwide from the last 3 decades which on reflection dose not even come close to events of the last 3 years in the states.

No doubt we in the UK must now be on the alert for a copycat mad man (or woman).

" . . . it is their attitude that every country should allow their citizens to have unlimited firearms". Where did you come up with that?

[Basil B]

" . . . it is their attitude that every country should allow their citizens to have unlimited firearms". Where did you come up with that?

Many of the posts here on TV over the years, every time someone says Thailand should have tighter gun control the argument seem to get twisted by those who oppose gun control to mention the US 2nd amendment. (just enter 2nd amendment into the search engine).

[mamypoko]

I'm all for some gun control, but what happened here was a failure of our health care system, or lack there of. Please also notice that a man in China stabbed 22 children yesterday.

Well, guns can't be controlled and shouldn't. They were made for this.

But people who own guns should be controlled with tough psychological tests. Random check on gun owners to see how they conceal their guns so to keep it out of reach for everyone.

This will create new jobs as well.

It might be a wash on jobs. Less first responders, forensic clean up crews, grief counselors...you get the idea

[simple1]

A terrible tragedy. I have been thinking about the young Thai family children who visit my wife & I nearly every week. Beautiful kids who I would be totally devastated if something like the latest event occurred. A heart rendering situation for the parents, family, friends and community.

Cannot believe what I am reading. Armed teachers at all schools, they would have to undertake rigorous training to shot to kill in very stressful situations. These mass killers appear to now be wearing body armour, again in a very stressful situation need to be trained to take head shots? Or armed guards at all schools that would require secured controlled access to the premises and trained to shoot to kill? A dysfunctional society when this level of security has to be considered & will not update it's laws based on 200 year old right to bear arms. Sure it would not have immediate results, but over 20 years or so to gradually have some positive results. Is it not a step in the right direction to reduce access to high powered weapons.

As someone else posted US TV media trying to interview some of the children for their responses to the tragedy - how sick is that?

[steveyinasia]

I must have been sleeping these past years and now I wake in a world where killing innocent children happens, I dont care much for this kind of world. We really have screwed up this race.

[MaxYakov]

If the USA had proper gun control laws then there is a very good chance that this killer would not have had a gun in the first place.

Care to tell us what 'proper' gun control laws are?

Edited December 15, 2012 by Scott

[SouthernMan3]

I just spoke to someone in that town.

The gun was registered to the killer's mom whom he killed as well.

Have people never heard of gun safes ?

To be honest, here in the UK you have to use gun safes for firearms but they are really not that secure, opened one last week for someone who had his keys stolen, took 30 mins because my methode of entry was none destructive, cound have opend it in seconds but would have damaged it.

Just saw a moron on CNN trying to explain that more guns would result in lower casualties............ First time I also saw a presenter real angry but I think this is be the way it goes. The shooters are crazy and not the mentally of most gun owners. When I was over there visiting a friend one of his employees son killed the day before someone to take 10 US and dad was normally working because as he told "it was something that happens"

I do not care what the morons of the USA do in their back yard, but it is their attitude that every country should allow their citizens to have unlimited firearms, anything to do with the fact that the USA has over 100 gun manufactures?

Yet another quoted here incidents worldwide from the last 3 decades which on reflection dose not even come close to events of the last 3 years in the states.

No doubt we in the UK must now be on the alert for a copycat mad man (or woman).

My friend's gun safe in the states only opens with his hand print and has a temperature sensor so that if the hand is cold it will not work.

[chuckd]

I do not care what the morons of the USA do in their back yard, but it is their attitude that every country should allow their citizens to have unlimited firearms, anything to do with the fact that the USA has over 100 gun manufactures?

Yet another quoted here incidents worldwide from the last 3 decades which on reflection dose not even come close to events of the last 3 years in the states.

No doubt we in the UK must now be on the alert for a copycat mad man (or woman).

" . . . it is their attitude that every country should allow their citizens to have unlimited firearms". Where did you come up with that?

You beat me to it, VL. What an ignorant comment he just made.

[raybal5]

Gun control does not work, let everyone carry a gun over there, then they can finish off themselves over time...

I agree that if the teachers had carried a gun, he might have stopped earlier, but who would stop the teachers if they went apeshit??

RIP to all the children...

Actually I don't agree with Snowflake. Australia has pretty tight gun control and we don't see anywhere near the number of killings that happen in the US. Sure the criminals still manage to get guns and murder some people but this will always happen in any society. I don't agree with the idea of everyone being armed on the chance that maybe they can shoot the crap out of offenders. It's just too depressing and scary to think every social interaction could end in death or serious injury.

I can understand the history of the US right to bear arms but I don't think people would ever rise up against a corrupt government. If you actually read the constitution, the Second Amendment was supposed to be for deterring tyrannical government; repelling invasion; suppressing insurrection; participating in law enforcement; enabling the people to organize a militia system. But seriously folks, when has that ever happened? Is it likely to ever happen? Back in the early days of the union (aka the wild west days) there was a high chance of the need for these things but seriously folks, in 2012 is that still valid? I think not. So if the underlying reason for the 2nd amendment rights are no longer valid then the 2nd amendment should be revoked or changed such that there are much more restrictions on guns. It's a sad fact of life that the NRA has too much political clout and that while they will tut-tut and say how horrible this is - they will fight tooth and nail against proper gun control.

To the families and friends of all concerned, I extend my sympathies. When you have healed from your loss, I encourage you to do something positive toward changing the US obsession with guns. Good luck Obama - you'll need it.

Edited December 15, 2012 by raybal5

[radiochaser]

I would point out, at 20 years old, you are not allowed to purchase a handgun under United States Federal law. You have to be 21 years old to purchase a handgun.

Yep, gun control works well. Just go to trade show a buy you an AK. Just give them a fake name so through don't know you escaped from an insane asylum and are wanted for murder. Should be good to go.

And the buyer gives the licensed firearms dealer a fake name. That is if the dealer is a local licensed firearms dealer, if he isn't, then the purchase must be made through a local firearms dealer who is at the show just for that purpose (and he gets paid by the buyer for it too).

Then the local firearms dealer asks for a drivers license or other required identification card to back up the fake name you have given. If no ID, then no sale.

The licensed firearms dealer is required to, "Before ringing up the sale, ... call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase."

There are strict guidelines for the identification as well. I was a Federal Agent with badge and credentials and the firearms dealers could not accept that as valid identification for purchasing a firearm!

The argument that you can just walk into a gun show and purchase a firearm from any of the dealers is a fallacy. State and federal laws requires the sale must be legitimate! Any other sale at a gun show is a felony act!

[71Cuda]

Over the last decades, it seems the stereotype of the typical mass murderer has shifted to become young adult males.

- Columbine school

- Virginia tech

- Colorado theater

- Portland mall

- Today's Newtown school

+ Several others involving younger males as the shooters.

I've been wondering if there is any correlation of this trend with video games. Today's video games are extremely realistic. Many players are immersed in this simulated world where they assume the role of the mass murderer. Scoring higher points as the numbers of those slain increases.

I can't help but think when the REAL LIFE carnage is acted out, it parallels a hyper-violent video game.

It seems that before video games, killing sprees were far less common and would more likely involve older males.

(Of course this is not based on scientific data, but only my personal recollection of news events. However, I would be surprised if real data did not prove this to be true.)

[animatic]

The first few minutes of Fox News coverage mentioned: this isn't about guns. Funny. Guns were used. It's OK for them to bring up the gun control issue moments after one of the worse cases of gun violence in American history, as long as the comment is AGAINST gun control. Later they suggested that now every American school should have a full time guard, armed with ... GUNS. Amazing.

Nice to see rupert Murdock tweet FOR Gun Control later in the day.

I bet that freaked out the FauxNews Editorial Dept.

Edited December 15, 2012 by animatic

[koheesti]

The real underlying problem isn't that the guy had access to guns, it is that he felt so angry, disconnected from society and reality that to him it was a good idea for whatever sick, crazy reason to randomly kill anyone, let alone many children. Some psychiatrists say that publicizing events like this non-stop on TV just makes the matter worse, it shows other prospective nuts that this is a way to show the world, to show the people you feel slighted by whatever it is their sick mind wants to show them. Did guns make it easier? Probably, yes. Without guns we don't know how he might have vented his crazy anger. Maybe bomb the school or start a fire? Certainly more violent than making angry posts on an Internet forum. But I can guarantee that guns had nothing to do with turning him crazy in the first place.

[raybal5]

Seems the 2nd amendment is more important than school children...

I knew it wouldn't be long before the idiots started the anti gun rants. Maybe we should wait at least until the children are buried?

It seems we are idiots because we hold a different view from you? I would suggest you would be better off saying that we are insensitive for crying out too soon. But is it ever too soon to shout out about the immorality of allowing killing machines to be freely available to all who seek them? A personal attack is the hallmark of a person bereft of the ability to make a sound argument.

[radiochaser]

Logical consequence of the too liberal Arms law in the U.S., where every criminal can buy arms in the next shop around the corner. Responsible is at the end the Republican Party, which opposites any change to arms trade laws.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns and explosives fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers.

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms or explosives. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 100 million such checks have been made in the last decade, leading to more than 700,000 denials.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

[koheesti]

No doubt we in the UK must now be on the alert for a copycat mad man (or woman).

I thought that this school killing in the USA was a copycat of the Dunblane school killing in the UK. Before that, we had had school shootings in the USA, but nothing on the scale of Dunblane. That Brit set the modern western standard.

I found a list of primary school attacks dating back to an Indian (American) attack in 1764. Since then, there have been many across the planet. A guy in Germany killed 11 back in 1964 using a homemade flamethrower and lance. <deleted>? But as the list shows, attacks on young school children is, sadly, a worldwide problem, especially in China. Oddly, on the same day as the attack in CT, there was another attack in China where a man injured (not killed) 22 children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_related_to_primary_schools

[tinfoilhat]

An utter tragedy is about to unfold!!! How unbelievable and to happen but 10 days from Christmas. The families will be devastated. Now about that other thread about guns, and the 2nd amendment!! An elementary school for Gods sake.

At the moment 18 elementary school children are amongst the dead!! The gunman was aged 20, he is also dead, Police appear to be holding someone else. God help all the parents and families.

I feel sick to the very core.

about to unfold? how could it get any worse.

[tinfoilhat]

Seems the 2nd amendment is more important than school children...

freedom comes with risk.

and i am pretty sure that those who wants that freedom and the right do not insist on that right because it is their plan to kill children.

its against the law to kill children. did it stop the culprit? so would anti gun laws stop any other mad killer?

they certainly would not make it any easier.

[snooky]

I would point out, at 20 years old, you are not allowed to purchase a handgun under United States Federal law. You have to be 21 years old to purchase a handgun.

CNN has just reported that the two hand guns and the semi automatic rifle were all owned by the mother of the killer

Just wondering how much Books can influence these horrible school shootings to happen? .... Jodi Picoult wrote a book called "Nineteen Minutes" in 2007 and which is the tale of a teenager kid who goes on a shooting rampage in his school and all the details and background of this kid ( including that the guns he used were owned by his father in this case ) match so closely to this shooting and the previous one a year or so ago.... I wonder ?? To what extent is there a Copy Cat effect??

I see where your coming from but this bloke was a mental case and it's unlikely he read anything other than comic books. This and other similar incidents are now becoming a lot more frequent and it's a sign of a sick world society. We like to think this sort of thing only ever happens to other people and members of our own family's would never be involved with such atrocities, but how do we really know? A lot has changed since WW2 in peoples thinking, and personal discipline's have broken down, hence, we have become too liberalised both in our own behaviour and the way we bring up our offspring. Lack of discipline in our lives as Human Beings returns us to being a more primitive animal....and the results are now out there for everyone to see.

OMG - How many only read comic books here in LOS??

Rip to the victims and sincere condolences to the families. I used to drive a bus through that community some 50 odd years ago - what a beautiful and quiet little town. Shame its been so violated.

[Breville]

I am both very sad and very angry to hear about this tragedy. Very sad for the victims and their families, and very angry that we have to share this world with mindless rednecks who think the streets would be safer if everyone walked around armed to the hilt.

[Chicog]

Logical consequence of the too liberal Arms law in the U.S., where every criminal can buy arms in the next shop around the corner. Responsible is at the end the Republican Party, which opposites any change to arms trade laws.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns and explosives fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers.

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms or explosives. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 100 million such checks have been made in the last decade, leading to more than 700,000 denials.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

It didn't stop James Holmes creating a veritable arsenal and getting thousands of rounds of ammo online. But as one gun "enthusiast" said about him: ""If I only had 6,000 rounds for my AR-15s, I'd literally feel naked". How can you reason with mental cases like that?

[Jingthing]

The connection of this massacre to the issue of gun control can simply NOT be denied and it should not be denied.

We have had enough. American politics is plagued by timidity and paralyzed by opportunism whenever we even consider talking action to curb gun violence. No other developed country in the world has these massacres on such a regular basis. In no comparable nation do citizens have such easy access to guns. On no public question other than gun violence are those who demand solutions after an ungodly episode accused of “politicizing tragedy.”

...

But we already know that it is far too easy to obtain guns in America. We already know that it is far too difficult to keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them. And we already know that weapons are available that should not even be sold. We must act now to curb gun violence, or we never will.

http://www.washingto...o-be-different/

If not in the wake of this horrible massacre, then when?

This time I want to believe things may be different. This seems like a level of horror that belongs to a whole different category, one that has the potential to shame our public officials into action, as long as we insist that there is no other moral alternative.

There was a hint of this in President Obama’s remarks today. Choking up with emotion, he said: “The majority of those who died today were children. Beautiful little kids between the ages of five and 10 years old. They had their entire lives ahead of them. Birthdays. Graduations. Weddings. Kids of their own.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2012/12/14/if-todays-shooting-wont-prompt-action-then-nothing-will/ Edited December 15, 2012 by Jingthing

[NomadJoe]

Seems the 2nd amendment is more important than school children...

A second amendment that has been mis-interpreted.

[NomadJoe]

Seems the 2nd amendment is more important than school children...

If the USA had proper gun control laws then there is a very good chance that this killer would not have had a gun in the first place.

Would this including the 12 dead and 11 others wounded by a gunman in the Cumbria shootings in Britain two years ago?

Or would it include the 16 killed and the 15 injured in the Hungerford mass murders by a gunman in Britain where a gunman with two semi-automatic rifles and a handgun cut loose?

No? Then perhaps it was the Port Arthur massacre in Australia - In 1996, armed with two semi-automatic rifles, Martin Bryant killed 35 people around Port Arthur and wounded 21?

Ah, Australia essentially outlawed such guns after that, but then there was the Childers Palace Fire - In June 2000, Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.

So people really don't obey laws if they are really killers, do they? They don't even need guns, do they?

Maybe it was the Finnish gunmen, 22-year-old Matti Juhani Saari, who opened fire with a semi-automatic pistol on fellow students killing 10 in 2008?

No? Then was it the July 2005 London bombings where 52 were killed and 700 more injured?

Killers will kill and all we can do is mourn after the fact. Sad.

Prayers up for the friends, parents a relatives of the victims. It is a terrible thing.

What's a fire got to do with this?

Gun gun control laws in the states are idiotic not only because they provide easy access to guns for criminals and the mentally unstable, but also because they are based on creating a false sense of security. You are more likely to be shot by your own gun than use it on an intruder.

[oldsailor35]

Seems the 2nd amendment is more important than school children...

Don't understand all this "amendment" crap, wish somebody really did !

[techboy]

Seems the 2nd amendment is more important than school children...

Sanctimonious drivel. You are implying that those who established the 2nd Amendment and people who uphold it condone events like this. What you say is ignorant and sophistic. People also kill with knives and strangle each other and they whack each other with hammers. I guess when God gave us hands he thought that was more important than school children... Home Depot should be outlawed. If this sounds totally ridiculous how do you think that your post comes across? BTW the highest statistic for child murders goes to their parents, not guns.

[DocN]

I read somewhere (stop asking for stupid sources every 5 seconds...as if that would make any difference) that Obama said, something has to be done, to ever prevent this from happening again!

Right! 100% right!

Only one problem: I bet FOX News, the NRA, the Republican Party and some other lobbyists from yesteryear are already making plans, to the "something has to be done" will not affect their <deleted> second amendment, any more rigid gun- control laws.

They will have their speeches ready, claiming that Obama "is coming to take your guns away" and that it is the 'god given right" of any American to have as many guns in their home as they wish to.

In the end: if everybody in the school would have had a gun, they could have taken the guy down much earlier!

Makes you sick, just to think about it!

When will this country finally wake up from its Wild West dreams?

R.I.P. all the victims

[oldsailor35]

Seems the 2nd amendment is more important than school children...

freedom comes with risk.

and i am pretty sure that those who wants that freedom and the right do not insist on that right because it is their plan to kill children.

its against the law to kill children. did it stop the culprit? so would anti gun laws stop any other mad killer?

Maybe not ! but it sure as hell would make it a hell of a lot more difficult.