' America's Most Wanted Deadbeat Dad' Arrested After Fleeing To Thailand

[Jimi007]

Three kids, not many. I've known American guys (who probably typify men everywhere) who have had several wives and truckloads of kids they don't even send a b'day card to. My elder brother, who is a Bible-thumping Christian, has been married over 6 times and has at least 10 kids and doesn't pay a penny for any of them. The bass player for the Wailers (Bob Marley's band) has contributed to nearly 100 kids who don't have their natural father. He won't acknowledge them. In many countries, men who make dozens of kids without providing support are actually celebrated as being virile. It's sick to the 10th degree! Thailand has no laws which compel a deadbeat dad to provide any support for any kids he's sired and abandoned. It's one of the things which piss me off the most about Thailand.

I understand and agree. Men aren't held accountable here. It takes two to create...

Edited December 20, 2012 by Jimi007

[crazygreg44]

If a man has taken care of his wife and let her stay home all those years and they get divorced for whatever reason, it is his legal responsibility to continue working to support her in her current life style and also his children who will likely be given custody to his wife. Failure to do so will result in a prison sentence.

Where??

[SteveB2]

Permit me to suggest moving this topic to 'family and children' forum?

I would also guess the headline is rather misleading - he was not extradited for alimony/child support issues - rather he was extradited to the USA for the far more serious offence of fake passport shuffling

Shuffling a fake PP in this day and age is downright stupid - since there are perfectly legal methods to obtain legal second citizenship/ID for people of sufficient financial means. Biometric data on the latest e-passports might still be a problem to lose sleep over.

But what about being worried about extradition through missed alimony/maintenance payments? To my knowledge the extent of the Thai/USA extradition treaty does not cover relatively insignificant civil crimes such as this, generating jail time of less than one year, unless the court considers he still has the means to pay and thus considers his lack of payments to be 'indirect contempt of court' . This (like the passport shuffling) would then escalate into the far more serious 'indirect contempt of court' offence, and for a high profile case might end up in extradition - though at this time likely carried out on a case-by-case basis rather than by automatic process. Perhaps a million USD owed might do it, however I find it difficult to imagine the mandarin justice system and its officialdom moving all the paperwork to accomplish this arduoous task unless a large chunk of advance cash funding landing in their direction before any action took place - or perhaps another high profile (Thai) extradition was required and all legal wheels turned greased by the principal of diplomatic reciprocity.

As for the USA court coming to their 'indirect contempt of court decision' - the guy would surely have to have been of questionable intelligence to have organized his asset domicile spread in such a way as to give sufficient evidence for the court to come to their decision.

Thus for those gents reading this topic who have a brain, a low profile existence in Thailand, and zero banking/asset/income signature in the x-wife's country of domicile - all can stop worrying and go back to supping beers and chasing smiles. They are simply not worthwhile pursuing.

Panic over

Edited December 20, 2012 by SteveB2

[F430murci]

I pity anyone who can turn their back in their own children and brag about. Very selfish and damaging to the children unless of course dad is a dead beat violent alcoholic the children do not want to be around. But alas, that is damaging to children also not to have a connection or feel lived by their REAL father. Issues like this are the factors denigrating our society.

I never met my father as he deserted my mother when he found out she was pregnant. I do not have any awareness of damage to my physiology or emotional wellness. Mother never married. Unless their was abuse in the family, from my personal experience, I believe their is a lot of BS around the father/mother & poor little me dialogue in Western society;

Not making light of your situation, but do you not think it much harder on children that knew and lived with their dad to suddenly have their dad gone and not wanting to speak to them any more. Children feel abandoned and don't understand.

Even adopted kids will get that deep urge to make connection with biological parents.

Well I never hard the "deep urge" to try & locate my biological father (from my mother I knew his name and nationality). I came to the conclusion that as he had never contacted my mother or I, why bother. You know, the old exp<b></b>ression, "get a life" don't hang around like a wet blanket.

Not really speaking of your situation and have no idea what your life is like. Happy stable home with family and children or more isolated from family. I was also speaking of adopted. I know several adopted individuals with professional degrees and great families that sought out their biologicals. Makes me cringe as I worry it may go bad for them, but they have a great life. Just a missing price of the puzzle.

Nevertheless, you seemed to endorse walking away from your children as being acceptable. I personally view it as very selfish and damaging. I divorced after 17 years of marriage and it sucked. I still sucked it up and do the best I can to be a part if my girls' lives even though I have a wife, baby and family. Not about me. I now have college for two that will still set me back $50k a year after scholarships. That is my obligation, not ex wife's husbands.

[rgs2001uk]

It is not always black and white. These child protection agencies like they have in USA and UK can be totally ruthless and can seem quite unjust at times.

What about situations where the wife remarries perhaps to an even wealthier person? I have heard instances in the UK where the child protection agency completely disregards the financial circumstances of the subsequent husband and still relentlessly pursues the father no matter how hard up he may be

Because the wealthier man doesn't have any financial responsibility to take care of another mans children, no matter how hard up he is,

A Father takes care of his own children and shouldn't expect another man to do it for him.

If the new man if the womans life isnt perepared to take on the woman and her kids maybe he shouldnt get involved.

You sound just like the guy who moved in with my brothers ex wife and his kids, a freeloader who thought he was onto a good thing, free house and no need to put his hand in his pocket.

Brother was being crucified by the draconian Australian system.

Phoned up his ex wife and said no more, as of tomorrow I am unemployed tell your new man to put his hand in his pocket.

Next day brother handed in his notice, end of payments.

Some bullshit lawyer showed up with wife and new man in tow, brother told them to shove it, if you have any problems address them to the UK goodbye.

Brother now is a fulltime student with no income, new man quickly moved on.

[Asiantravel]

It is not always black and white. These child protection agencies like they have in USA and UK can be totally ruthless and can seem quite unjust at times.

What about situations where the wife remarries perhaps to an even wealthier person? I have heard instances in the UK where the child protection agency completely disregards the financial circumstances of the subsequent husband and still relentlessly pursues the father no matter how hard up he may be

Because the wealthier man doesn't have any financial responsibility to take care of another mans children, no matter how hard up he is,

A Father takes care of his own children and shouldn't expect another man to do it for him.

If the new man if the womans life isnt perepared to take on the woman and her kids maybe he shouldnt get involved.

You sound just like the guy who moved in with my brothers ex wife and his kids, a freeloader who thought he was onto a good thing, free house and no need to put his hand in his pocket.

Brother was being crucified by the draconian Australian system.

Phoned up his ex wife and said no more, as of tomorrow I am unemployed tell your new man to put his hand in his pocket.

Next day brother handed in his notice, end of payments.

Some bullshit lawyer showed up with wife and new man in tow, brother told them to shove it, if you have any problems address them to the UK goodbye.

Brother now is a fulltime student with no income, new man quickly moved on.

this is exactly the kind of situation I was alluding to. It is obvious that more and more fathers are drawing a line in the sand and are refusing to be pushed around by manipulative former wives in collusion with

unsympathetic child protection agency staff.

I think in USA and UK and maybe Australia the law regarding this issue as far as the rights of fathers versus the obligations imposed on them has become totally unbalanced.

At least in one US state though they've even formed an organisation called the National Fathers Resource Centre to make more fathers aware of their rights. I mean a legal system which says fathers must pay up whether or not they are given visitation rghts is simply unjust

Edited December 20, 2012 by Asiantravel

[Vietnam6768]

Here in Louisiana, Alimony is a rare thing unless the Husband is very wealthy, or the wife is

disabled.

Child support is a father's responsibility. I paid mine and Bought used cars, Cheerleader

uniforms, clothes, and never regretted it. Its the right thing to do.

Rayf1945

[rgs2001uk]

Here in Louisiana, Alimony is a rare thing unless the Husband is very wealthy, or the wife is

disabled.

Child support is a father's responsibility. I paid mine and Bought used cars, Cheerleader

uniforms, clothes, and never regretted it. Its the right thing to do.

Rayf1945

And where is the wifes responsibility?

Why is it acceptable for a wife to sit on her ass and contribute nothing?

Why when a new man moves in with the wife arent payments recalculated?

[F430murci]

It is not always black and white. These child protection agencies like they have in USA and UK can be totally ruthless and can seem quite unjust at times.

What about situations where the wife remarries perhaps to an even wealthier person? I have heard instances in the UK where the child protection agency completely disregards the financial circumstances of the subsequent husband and still relentlessly pursues the father no matter how hard up he may be

Because the wealthier man doesn't have any financial responsibility to take care of another mans children, no matter how hard up he is,

A Father takes care of his own children and shouldn't expect another man to do it for him.

If the new man if the womans life isnt perepared to take on the woman and her kids maybe he shouldnt get involved.

You sound just like the guy who moved in with my brothers ex wife and his kids, a freeloader who thought he was onto a good thing, free house and no need to put his hand in his pocket.

Brother was being crucified by the draconian Australian system.

Phoned up his ex wife and said no more, as of tomorrow I am unemployed tell your new man to put his hand in his pocket.

Next day brother handed in his notice, end of payments.

Some bullshit lawyer showed up with wife and new man in tow, brother told them to shove it, if you have any problems address them to the UK goodbye.

Brother now is a fulltime student with no income, new man quickly moved on.

this is exactly the kind of situation I was alluding to. It is obvious that more and more fathers are drawing a line in the sand and are refusing to be pushed around by manipulative former wives in collusion with

unsympathetic child protection agency staff.

I think in USA and UK and maybe Australia the law regarding this issue as far as the rights of fathers versus the obligations imposed on them has become totally unbalanced.

At least in one US state though they've even formed an organisation called the National Fathers Resource Centre to make more fathers aware of their rights. I mean a legal system which says fathers must pay up whether or not they are given visitation rghts is simply unjust

Court will not deny father visitation rights unless domestic abuse or father is a drug addict and is high or drunk around children. Even then father can get supervised visitation, pass drugs screens, get act together and get back on unsupervised visitation fairly quickly.

Courts in US encourage fathers to be an active part of the childrens' lives. Fathers have to screw up really bad to get in the wrong side of this policy. I am afraid a lot of the stories you guys are hearing are from disenchanted spouses who booked from US and may not be quite so innocent.

Who the ex shacks up with does not matter. Your child obligation will be the same and I doubt very seriously any of these people are paying enough in child support to support two adults. If the money is not going to the children, then you should approach the judge and say kids are not getting fed, not getting clothes or whatever.

I am actually more on fathers' sides than anyone about fathers' rights, but we are not talking about those type of rights here. Every one keeps mentioning stories of jealous deadbeat dads more worried about what the ex is doing than their children and then they want to play victim. They are not the victims when they unilaterally turn their back in their children because they are all up in their ex's business.

I really don't mean to slam anyone because divorce sucks and hurts, but don't take it out on the kids or come on here saying it is okay to split on kids because system or ex wife sucks.

[thrilled]

I'm surprised he didn't pay off the thai police/officals.

[simple1]

Not really speaking of your situation and have no idea what your life is like. Happy stable home with family and children or more isolated from family. I was also speaking of adopted. I know several adopted individuals with professional degrees and great families that sought out their biologicals. Makes me cringe as I worry it may go bad for them, but they have a great life. Just a missing price of the puzzle.

Nevertheless, you seemed to endorse walking away from your children as being acceptable. I personally view it as very selfish and damaging. I divorced after 17 years of marriage and it sucked. I still sucked it up and do the best I can to be a part if my girls' lives even though I have a wife, baby and family. Not about me. I now have college for two that will still set me back $50k a year after scholarships. That is my obligation, not ex wife's husbands.

No don't endorse, just responding based upon my experience. I separated, went to another country. when my daughter was 4 years old, loved her, but she is fine married with 3 children and happy

[DocN]

Here in Louisiana, Alimony is a rare thing unless the Husband is very wealthy, or the wife is

disabled.

Child support is a father's responsibility. I paid mine and Bought used cars, Cheerleader

uniforms, clothes, and never regretted it. Its the right thing to do.

Rayf1945

And where is the wifes responsibility?

Why is it acceptable for a wife to sit on her ass and contribute nothing?

Why when a new man moves in with the wife arent payments recalculated?

Yeah it really is a shame!

All those maids and buttlers, the self- laundrying laundry, the self- cooking meals, the self- cleaning homes and still these women complain.

[maidu]

Here in Louisiana, Alimony is a rare thing unless the Husband is very wealthy, or the wife is disabled.

Child support is a father's responsibility. I paid mine and Bought used cars, Cheerleader uniforms, clothes, and never regretted it. Its the right thing to do. Rayf1945

And where is the wifes responsibility? Why is it acceptable for a wife to sit on her ass and contribute nothing? Why when a new man moves in with the wife arent payments recalculated?

It's not 'black and white' - every scenario has its particulars. I married in California in 1975 because the woman got pregnant (she told me it was 'safe' ha ha ha). I felt obliged because of the prepnancy, otherwise, I wouldn't have stayed with her for 2 weeks. We split up after 2 years of arguments. I paid child support until daughter turned 18 and have helped her out ever since. All along, my daughter and I have had a very good relationship and deep friendship. When I was paying child support (half my income) the mom was re-married (twice) and smoking pot every night. It's a strange world, but personal responsibility is a basic tenet. It's rare in the US and rarer still in Thailand.

[chooka]

I paid Child Support for 9.5 yrs until I found out that I wasn't actually the father. I was was scammed by an evil decietful cow and was even forced by the agency to continue paying (threatened with legal action) after I was confirmed not to be the biological father. I had to take it to court to get a ruling that I was no longer responsible for another mans child. After all that my ex had the audacity to try and make me out to be the evil one who destroyed a boys life. She and her family totally exhonerated her of any wrongdoing directing all blame to me.

I now fully support the idea that before any man is forced to pay Child Support then the mother must prove beyond all resonable doubt that the person who is to pay is actually the biological father. (DNA) I was a total fool and took the word of a lying cheating person as fact. The word of a woman alone that he is the father means absolutly nothing at all.

[EarthAlien]

Take a good look into the suicide rates of ex husbands that have been persecuted by the system to the point that they took the option of ending their lives because of the emotional strain of it all and the humiliation and persecution & hoplessness that goes with it,.. the numbers will shock you!

If you have some stats and numbers then show them, or the link.

It's hard to be shocked by idle speculation.

You know how to google,.... get off your arse and do your own research. Making the effort will add to the substance of your discovery and help you to overcome your ignorance!

[BookMan]

Take a good look into the suicide rates of ex husbands that have been persecuted by the system to the point that they took the option of ending their lives because of the emotional strain of it all and the humiliation and persecution & hoplessness that goes with it,.. the numbers will shock you!

If you have some stats and numbers then show them, or the link.

It's hard to be shocked by idle speculation.

You know how to google,.... get off your arse and do your own research. Making the effort will add to the substance of your discovery and help you to overcome your ignorance!

You want me to do all your work for you?

You are making the claim so you should provide evidence, not just some emotive generalised statement, as you have done.

Probably better to just admit that you made up the factual claim..or of course, show your evidence.

[BookMan]

I paid Child Support for 9.5 yrs until I found out that I wasn't actually the father. I was was scammed by an evil decietful cow and was even forced by the agency to continue paying (threatened with legal action) after I was confirmed not to be the biological father. I had to take it to court to get a ruling that I was no longer responsible for another mans child. After all that my ex had the audacity to try and make me out to be the evil one who destroyed a boys life. She and her family totally exhonerated her of any wrongdoing directing all blame to me.

I now fully support the idea that before any man is forced to pay Child Support then the mother must prove beyond all resonable doubt that the person who is to pay is actually the biological father. (DNA) I was a total fool and took the word of a lying cheating person as fact. The word of a woman alone that he is the father means absolutly nothing at all.

That's a tough situation Chooka.

I seem to remember a case in the last couple of years in Australia where the father took his ex to court after he found out he was not the biological father. IN that case the court decided that all payments he made for child support,up until he learnt the truth would stand.

[Potosi]

I'm surprised he didn't pay off the thai police/officals.

Probably did. Can't see why else he was left off the hook for the fake passport.

[radiochaser]

I am not in anyway denigrating anyone, only the laws involved regarding failed marriages in the West.

The problem is that the rules regarding the rights of wives/girlfriends in the West has gone way over the top in favour of the women:

She has the option to divorce her husband at any point during the marriage just on the grounds that she no longer wishes to remain with her partner and if there are children involved, in 99.99% of cases, she gets the family home and the kids, even if there is a new partner on the scene, plus child support and alimony. The woman gets paid even if she is the partner that dissolved the marriage and still gets paid even if the male partner and her don't legally marry.

I know of some men that had been completely destroyed by these Draconian Laws where their spouses and the system have literally picked their bones clean.

I knew a man out in California. He worked on a farm earning $1000.00 a month. The farm he worked at provided a house for him to live in. He and his wife had 2 or 3 children.

He goes home one day and finds his wife has moved out with the kids. A short while later he gets a letter from her attorney, filing for a divorce for "irreconcilable differences".

The court awarded her $900.00 dollars a month. Where did she move to? She moved in with a guy who the kids say was bringing home over $2000.00 a month net. Kids said when mom got the $900.00 dollar check, she would buy new clothes, shoes, and handbags! She didn't spend any money on the kids! This was back in 1985.

[GreenSnapper]

Child support should only be paid under the following conditions:

1. You are the father. Proof by DNA test.

2. You were not tricked into fatherhood against your will.

3. Mother doesn't prevent contact to your children.

4. Reasonable amount of money. Proof that money is used for child alone.

These conditions match around 20% of child support cases. In the majority, fathers have no legal rights at all, in some countries not even the right to test for fatherhood.

That's why a "dead beat father" is rare. Most men in such a situation just protect themselves and deserve all our sympathy.

[khaowong1]

if they start extraditing deadbeats, a lot of guys will be nervous

[BookMan]

Child support should only be paid under the following conditions:

1. You are the father. Proof by DNA test.

2. You were not tricked into fatherhood against your will.

3. Mother doesn't prevent contact to your children.

4. Reasonable amount of money. Proof that money is used for child alone.

These conditions match around 20% of child support cases. In the majority, fathers have no legal rights at all, in some countries not even the right to test for fatherhood.

That's why a "dead beat father" is rare. Most men in such a situation just protect themselves and deserve all our sympathy.

How do you provide evidence for points 1, 2,3 ?

regarding point 1: How can you be tricked into fatherhood? If more guys took responsibility for contraception you could avoid that issue outright. Seems to me that personal responsibility starts with the individual, not by blaming someone else for tricking you into fatherhood.

[Bwanatickey]

What I do not understand,and I am hopeing the Americans can enlighten Me on this. The U.S.A is so huge,has a huge population,if a persecuted Father needed to vanish,surely He could live under the radar in the U.S.A far away from his ex troubles. If there are millions of aliens living and working all over U.S.A why is it not possible to blend into his mother land. Why do U.S.A citizens feel the need to exit out. Surely Canada would be a better option than Thailand or Mexico.

[TommoPhysicist]

What I do not understand,and I am hopeing the Americans can enlighten Me on this. The U.S.A is so huge,has a huge population,if a persecuted Father needed to vanish,surely He could live under the radar in the U.S.A far away from his ex troubles. If there are millions of aliens living and working all over U.S.A why is it not possible to blend into his mother land. Why do U.S.A citizens feel the need to exit out. Surely Canada would be a better option than Thailand or Mexico.

America has no extradition treaty with Thailand for offenses of this nature (financial).

So Thailand is easy. (He wasn't extradited from Thailand)

[welbymd]

1996-2012 is 16 years of unpaid child support for three kids Poor chap my foot, I feel sorry for this lowlife's kids - what a father to have been stuck with, he runs out on them and his responsiblities. Some people really should just not be allowed to have kids

$25,000 per child per month? Get real.

[DocN]

1996-2012 is 16 years of unpaid child support for three kids Poor chap my foot, I feel sorry for this lowlife's kids - what a father to have been stuck with, he runs out on them and his responsiblities. Some people really should just not be allowed to have kids

$25,000 per child per month? Get real.

Last time I checked it was 2,700 per child per month, but I was never good at maths!

[Potosi]

Child support should only be paid under the following conditions:

1. You are the father. Proof by DNA test.

2. You were not tricked into fatherhood against your will.

3. Mother doesn't prevent contact to your children.

4. Reasonable amount of money. Proof that money is used for child alone.

These conditions match around 20% of child support cases. In the majority, fathers have no legal rights at all, in some countries not even the right to test for fatherhood.

That's why a "dead beat father" is rare. Most men in such a situation just protect themselves and deserve all our sympathy.

I suggest to change 2 as follows: father to be must be included during the early pregnancy in the decision making of whether to have the child or not, if he doesn't want but the woman decides to have it nonetheless, the child forgoes any claims against the father.

[TommoPhysicist]

Child support should only be paid under the following conditions:

1. You are the father. Proof by DNA test.

2. You were not tricked into fatherhood against your will.

3. Mother doesn't prevent contact to your children.

4. Reasonable amount of money. Proof that money is used for child alone.

These conditions match around 20% of child support cases. In the majority, fathers have no legal rights at all, in some countries not even the right to test for fatherhood.

That's why a "dead beat father" is rare. Most men in such a situation just protect themselves and deserve all our sympathy.

I suggest to change 2 as follows: father to be must be included during the early pregnancy in the decision making of whether to have the child or not, if he doesn't want but the woman decides to have it nonetheless, the child forgoes any claims against the father.

I would change 3 to 'enforced shared custody'.

[EarthAlien]

Take a good look into the suicide rates of ex husbands that have been persecuted by the system to the point that they took the option of ending their lives because of the emotional strain of it all and the humiliation and persecution & hoplessness that goes with it,.. the numbers will shock you!

If you have some stats and numbers then show them, or the link.

It's hard to be shocked by idle speculation.

You know how to google,.... get off your arse and do your own research. Making the effort will add to the substance of your discovery and help you to overcome your ignorance!

You want me to do all your work for you?

You are making the claim so you should provide evidence, not just some emotive generalised statement, as you have done.

Probably better to just admit that you made up the factual claim..or of course, show your evidence.

No,.. but I do expect you to perform your own research to satisfy your own doubt and lack of knowledge. If you're interested in learning then that isn't too much to ask. Unless of course you studied in a Thai school and that experience necessitates the information being drip fed into you.

If you refute the facts I alluded to then by all mean be my guest and disprove them!

I couldn't care less whether you agree or disagree with my comments. I was simply sharing my own personal experience.

I'm not sure what the figures are currently but in the mid 1990's in Australia they were very disturbing and in the vicinity of 40 per month. Add to that fact that when in 1995/96 I went through my separation and divorce there were entire government departments set up in support of women's rights as "sole" parents and an annual budget of $150million for court legal aid whereas only $150,000 was awarded to a men's lobbyist group when they complained of lack of government support and fair play.

This isn't about misogyny or taking a twisted view on child support or moral issues one way or another, it simply points to the fact that there are always two sides to the story and in such matters many men have opted to end their lives because of the persecution, humiliation and hopelessness that goes with it. I personally know of several cases where guys have just ended it all suddenly and the only thing commonly attributable was that they had been for years pursued by the system and felt that the game was over and that no hope existed any more.

Whilst it appears to be that perhaps there are some men on here that posses a hatred of women (not saying that is exactly the case) I would certainly NOT be one of them.

As far as the comment earlier that this thread was headed toward a misogynistic fest I would say that such a comment is not only inaccurate and irrelevant but also points to the absolute feminist attitude that prevents males from having any voice or from their feelings and experiences being heard.

Either this forum is a place for balanced fair play and freedom of expression (within forum rules of course) or it is not.

Back to the OP,... yes it seems that the "offender" may have had his day of reckoning due for some time but we should also be willing to give the benefit of the doubt and at least share some perspective which is what makes this forum and others like it such a great platform for public opinion.

Respectfully,

E.A.

[BookMan]

...If you refute the facts I alluded to then by all mean be my guest and disprove them!...

How can i refute your facts when you simply don't offer any??