EDITORIAL

Mass shooting tragedy could happen here

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Thailand is awash with illegal firearms amid lax law enforcement, making it not inconceivable for someone to embark on a killing spree like those seen all too often in America

The school-shooting tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, has re-energised the debate over gun control in the United States. The incident shows that disaster can happen when deadly weapons are put in the hands of the wrong people.

American police at the scene say there are no words to describe the mass killing of 20 young children and six adults by a man who then took his own life. The incident happened only months after 12 people were massacred at a Colorado cinema.

Unfortunately, no one believes that this will be last episode of its kind.

Although the incident has drawn messages of sorrow and grief from people all over the world, it remains to be seen if those who support gun control will be able to move their agenda forward. The US is, after all, a diverse nation with different sub-cultures. More people on the East Coast might prefer to see tighter gun control, but guns are a part of the lives of people who live in the Midwest and the South, where the level of gun ownership is higher than in other parts of America.

US President Barack Obama responded forcefully to the mass killings in Connecticut. But it is debatable whether he will be able to prevail over the gun lobby and introduce tighter restrictions on gun ownership and the type of weapons that can be sold legally. As a result, these tragedies will happen over and over again.

Thailand has also seen a series of unfortunate incidents that are the result of lax gun control here. Many murders in Thailand are committed with guns. It is unclear how such a large number of guns have found their way into the hands of murderers.

It is almost at the point where Thais feel these incidents are routine news. Sadly, those who commit crimes with guns include students and youngsters, as evidenced by the high number of incidents involving shootings between students from rival colleges. These exchanges of gunfire have claimed innocent lives.

Culturally, Thai communities are agriculture-based, and people in these close-knit communities take care of each other. Gun ownership is not really part of the culture in the same way it is among Americans. This is reflected in the Second Amendment to the US Constitution, which protects the right of people to keep and bear arms.

The gun law in Thailand is subject to the Act Controlling Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, Fireworks and Imitation Firearms, which requires owners to acquire a licence before obtaining a firearm. A person can only use a gun for self-defence, the protection of property, sport hunting or collecting.

There is a debate whether Thailand should tighten gun control to ensure the weapons do not fall into the wrong hands. But the more challenging issue is how to enforce controls. Often, illegal gun possession happens under the noses of the authorities.

In fact, the number of guns used in illegal activities is much higher than we might like to admit. Teenage gangs, criminal syndicates and drug dealers routinely use illegal firearms.

The most daunting issue regarding guns in Thailand is to ensure enforcement of the law. As we know, few laws are implemented forcefully here. This should be part of the national agenda. Aside from all the other illegal weapons circulating around the country, the escalation of insurgent violence in the southernmost provinces should offer us an object lesson in the need for stricter enforcement.

Since 2004, 157 teachers in the deep South provinces have been killed, most of these cases involving illegal firearms and explosive devices. Some of these deadly weapons are smuggled into the country, while others are illegally acquired.

The violence may be contained to some extent with strict enforcement of the gun control law, but that can only happen if there is the political will to do so.

-- The Nation 2012-12-20

The article says killings in the south are done with illegal guns ...... making them more illegal won't help

Strict enforcement of terrorists won't help much either

The only thing that sloves crazy people doing crazy things is solving the crazy part not banning one implement of destruction or another

First thing: Get those guns out of the hands of politicians who are prone to "accidentally kill" somebody at unprotected public places

Although the mass shooting is such a tragedy, what appears to go unnoticed is the total number of individual gun related deaths which occur over a year.

In America: "...180 children, 11 years of age or younger, were killed by a firearm in 2010, according to the most recent report on violent deaths from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, says Jonathan Lowy, director of the Legal Action Project for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence." And, these are only gun related deaths of young children.

Perhaps, what would be a more effective approach would be not focusing on one event, or one cause of death, but addressing all domestic homicides, regardless of the weapon used, including those caused by domestic violence, child abuse, torture, etc. Lax gun control laws and their enforcement just make using that weapon a more convenient option. Stricter gun control laws and their enforcement, though strongly needed, would have only a limited effect on the total number of homicides committed. The weapon used is secondary to what motivates a person to kill in the first place. Addressing the complex psychological and cultural issues behind violence is the only way to start effectively reversing this trend.

This kind of articles only bring bad ideas to some minds....the more you publish about shooting sprees, the more ideas grow

Too many guns in Thailand already;

* The number of registered guns in Thailand is reported to be 3,870,000¹ That's the number of REGISTERED guns!

* BUT: The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in Thailand is 10,000,000¹

* In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Thailand ranked at No. 11¹

http://www.gunpolicy...region/thailand

Edited December 20, 201213 yr by LaoPo

Guns are a problem legal and illegal but especially illegal that's for sure. The discussion forums in the US have finally gotten around to discussing the "culture of violence" on TV, films, video games, music, comics..etc. The constant pervasive presence of guns, shootem' ups, violence and killing along with the desensitization of it in the video games, TV, and films is a critical problem today. Drugs and criminal gangs haven't helped the proliferation of guns either.

Establishing more restrictive laws on guns would probably help, but without a shift in the culture away from guns, killing, violence, and insensitivity to random pervasive killing in the media, all the controls and laws in the world won't stop these mass killers from popping up.

Better efforts could also be made to eliminate graft, corruption, and the black market for underground weapons. Drugs and weapons go together, and the sources of illegal guns seem off the radar screen. The exception being this Viktor Bout, the Soviet army officer extradited to the US. Whatever happened to him and information that he may have given up? I

the gun thing in the US is a serious problem. Over 1700 Walmart stores were selling the Bushmaster AR-15 on line until two days ago as the result of the Newtown Connecticut mass killing. No question that removing gun sales from that sort of retail level would be a great start. But the culture of violence in media stands on its own as a deep rooted fundamental problem in society. It's shocking to flip around the cable channels tonight and see that it is still hard to find a film or TV program without guns and killing.

Eliminating the retail sales of the Bushmaster AR-15 will help a lot to cut down on guns in public hands and Walmart seems to be taking action fast. Why in the world would Walmart have been selling them on-line and in 1700 stores in the first place? However, it doesn't answer questions about how Anders Behring Breivik was able to acquire his Ruger-14 and Glock in Norway that he used to kill 69 teenagers in Norway and 7-8 others. At least the Norwegian police have kept Breivik alive to determine the motives for his mass killing although it is no real consolation. The Norwegian investigators discovered that Breivik was an extensive "user" of video games as it is believed was Adam Lanza.

Only constant public discussion, newspaper editorials, and a shift in the media culture of violence in societies around the world will begin to reverse this disturbing trend. Shifting public consciousness on this may even help to avoid another Sarin gas incident such as the Tokyo event in 1995 killing 13 and injuring many others.

This kind of articles only bring bad ideas to some minds....the more you publish about shooting sprees, the more ideas grow

Too many guns in Thailand already;

* The number of registered guns in Thailand is reported to be 3,870,000¹

* In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Thailand ranked at No. 11¹

http://www.gunpolicy...region/thailand

Editing went completely wrong and didn't work

* The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in Thailand is 10,000,000¹

In the UK after the "Dunblane" tragedy laws were eventually changed to take handguns completely out of the hands of the private owner.

Also the remaining gun ownership requirements were tightened still further.. but all that achieved was that "legal" guns were taken away from "legal owners" while illegal weapons used by criminals still remained in the wrong hands, in fact even after this law was implemented gun crime still continued to rise year on year.. even using tweaked government figures to try to show otherwise.

Not an easy problem to solve, which is why the NRA of America is holding out for gun ownership as it is, knowing full well that the usual "knee jerk" reaction will not have the required results that the general public thinks it will.

PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE the gun is only a tool to do the job..

In Thailand there is a culture of violence, take away the gun you will have an increase in knife attacks, take away the knife you will have an increase in baton attacks, take away the batons & they will throw bricks etc etc !!

Education is the only way forward with stiff penalties for those that do break the law.. but therein lies the problem.. Thai law !!

Yes, it could happen here.

But only in Thailand could the perpetrator be found guilty on overwhelming evidence, sentenced to death, and then granted bail while waiting for an appeal. This assumes of course a certain degree of wealth, being born into the correct family, having political connections, or any combination of the preceding.

If he had them in the correct quantity/quality, he may even be allowed to travel overseas to visit Thaksin to guarantee his cabinet post.

Linking the recent terrible tragedy in America with the lax gun laws in Thailand is wholly tenious and completely unwarranted.

Spurious handwringing over what could happen in Thailand does nothing to detract from the simple fact that law enforcement - of any kind - in Thailand is simply non exsitent and, sadly, just laughable.

If you, Mr. Editor, - in all honesty - consider it, 'not inconceivable for someone to embark on a killing spree like those seen all too often in America', then I will assume that this has been on your mind for some time.

If so, make a stand, and start lobbying parliament and your readers to do something about it now.

If not, your editorial, Mr. Editor, is reduced - once again - to cheap journalism at best, or sensationalistic claptrap at worst.

I will assume the latter.

We've already witnessed an attempted mass shooting - or have people forgotten the Ekkamai shoot-out a short while ago? They picked up a lot of shells and the only saving grace was that the shooters were probably panicky and missed. The thing that bears comparison with USA is the ease with which those kids found guns.

I was standing at a bus stop and 3 or 4 motocy's pull up with 2 or 3 older school kids on each. They proceeded to stash knives and fighting sticks in the back of the bus stop where there is a gardening shop with lots of those big pots. One knife was about a 3 foot blade. They were casual as you like and all rode off again. My bus arrived so I didn't see if they came back with a stash of guns....

Edited December 20, 201213 yr by jpinx

It could happen anywhere and in some places it already has.

America doesn't have a monopoly on gun toting headcases..... it just leads the way.

Edited December 20, 201213 yr by bigbamboo

A radio journalist raised the very obvious issue, that banning new sales of certain types today will have a miniscule effect since there are already 100s of millions of guns in the US market already.

Amnesties would bring in a few, but on the basis (as this reported mentioned) that guns don't decompose, there are going to be guns around in American society for hundreds of years to come. The vehement defence of the right to bear arms hundreds of years after the creation of the constitution is a very emotional subject in America, and I don't quite understand it myself. But that is the way it is. They already have checks, limits on who can own, but limiting the types available today isn't going to change much at all. The guns of basically all types are already out there.

A radio journalist raised the very obvious issue, that banning new sales of certain types today will have a miniscule effect since there are already 100s of millions of guns in the US market already.

Amnesties would bring in a few, but on the basis (as this reported mentioned) that guns don't decompose, there are going to be guns around in American society for hundreds of years to come. The vehement defence of the right to bear arms hundreds of years after the creation of the constitution is a very emotional subject in America, and I don't quite understand it myself. But that is the way it is. They already have checks, limits on who can own, but limiting the types available today isn't going to change much at all. The guns of basically all types are already out there.

The simple thing to do is close the loopholes, ban the heavy weaponry, use a buy back scheme under an amnesty for a year or so and after that anyone found with such a weapon is committing a crime.

A radio journalist raised the very obvious issue, that banning new sales of certain types today will have a miniscule effect since there are already 100s of millions of guns in the US market already.

Amnesties would bring in a few, but on the basis (as this reported mentioned) that guns don't decompose, there are going to be guns around in American society for hundreds of years to come. The vehement defence of the right to bear arms hundreds of years after the creation of the constitution is a very emotional subject in America, and I don't quite understand it myself. But that is the way it is. They already have checks, limits on who can own, but limiting the types available today isn't going to change much at all. The guns of basically all types are already out there.

The simple thing to do is close the loopholes, ban the heavy weaponry, use a buy back scheme under an amnesty for a year or so and after that anyone found with such a weapon is committing a crime.

I am not advocating that something should be done, however, I think in the case of the USA, having amnesties and tighter controls actually would have very little effect whatsoever. People have guns, many people, multiple guns at home for various reasons. Taking a few of certain types off the market and banning them makes very little difference. Put a hand gun in the hands of someone proficient, and they can be infinitely more proficient at killing than an amateur with a semi-automatic weapon. It really is a conundrum, and when it goes up against the "right to bear arms", it is almost a religious discussion with many.

Turning to Thailand, yes, there are plenty of guns around in Thailand, and as yet they have avoided the types of massacre seen in other countries. So, essentially, it is just a matter of time until it happens.

Did the Nation do a cut and paste from a foreign newspaper? Or was headline a typo error? Mass shootings already do happen here. In karaoke bars, schools, mosques, trains etc.

Truly clueless classy journalism by the Nation maintaining Thailand's unbiased highly believable and quality media

Edited December 20, 201213 yr by Time Traveller

Like when you "accidentally" shoot your wife whit an uzi?

This kind of articles only bring bad ideas to some minds....the more you publish about shooting sprees, the more ideas grow

Too many guns in Thailand already;

* The number of registered guns in Thailand is reported to be 3,870,000¹

* In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Thailand ranked at No. 11¹

http://www.gunpolicy...region/thailand

You beat me to it.....exactly!!!!!

There is the rub. With all those guns, not so many problems. It is those mentally unstable people that is the problem. If they can't get a gun, they get a knife, cleaver, blade or a can of gas or make a bomb.

China has a huge problem with people attacking children. They are using blades and even a hammer!

It is really sick attacking children. They can't even take a challenge and attack someone equal. It is the sickos out there that needs legislation. Can't imagine how they would do it. So they will make feel good laws that don't address the real problem.

I wouldn't worry too much... the people ordering the murders might be charged for murder, but no way they'll go to jail.

Although the mass shooting is such a tragedy, what appears to go unnoticed is the total number of individual gun related deaths which occur over a year.

In America: "...180 children, 11 years of age or younger, were killed by a firearm in 2010, according to the most recent report on violent deaths from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, says Jonathan Lowy, director of the Legal Action Project for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence." And, these are only gun related deaths of young children.

Perhaps, what would be a more effective approach would be not focusing on one event, or one cause of death, but addressing all domestic homicides, regardless of the weapon used, including those caused by domestic violence, child abuse, torture, etc. Lax gun control laws and their enforcement just make using that weapon a more convenient option. Stricter gun control laws and their enforcement, though strongly needed, would have only a limited effect on the total number of homicides committed. The weapon used is secondary to what motivates a person to kill in the first place. Addressing the complex psychological and cultural issues behind violence is the only way to start effectively reversing this trend.

This kind of articles only bring bad ideas to some minds....the more you publish about shooting sprees, the more ideas grow

Too many guns in Thailand already;

* The number of registered guns in Thailand is reported to be 3,870,000¹

* In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Thailand ranked at No. 11¹

http://www.gunpolicy...region/thailand

Guns are a problem legal and illegal but especially illegal that's for sure. The discussion forums in the US have finally gotten around to discussing the "culture of violence" on TV, films, video games, music, comics..etc. The constant pervasive presence of guns, shootem' ups, violence and killing along with the desensitization of it in the video games, TV, and films is a critical problem today. Drugs and criminal gangs haven't helped the proliferation of guns either.

Establishing more restrictive laws on guns would probably help, but without a shift in the culture away from guns, killing, violence, and insensitivity to random pervasive killing in the media, all the controls and laws in the world won't stop these mass killers from popping up.

Better efforts could also be made to eliminate graft, corruption, and the black market for underground weapons. Drugs and weapons go together, and the sources of illegal guns seem off the radar screen. The exception being this Viktor Bout, the Soviet army officer extradited to the US. Whatever happened to him and information that he may have given up? I

the gun thing in the US is a serious problem. Over 1700 Walmart stores were selling the Bushmaster AR-15 on line until two days ago as the result of the Newtown Connecticut mass killing. No question that removing gun sales from that sort of retail level would be a great start. But the culture of violence in media stands on its own as a deep rooted fundamental problem in society. It's shocking to flip around the cable channels tonight and see that it is still hard to find a film or TV program without guns and killing.

Eliminating the retail sales of the Bushmaster AR-15 will help a lot to cut down on guns in public hands and Walmart seems to be taking action fast. Why in the world would Walmart have been selling them on-line and in 1700 stores in the first place? However, it doesn't answer questions about how Anders Behring Breivik was able to acquire his Ruger-14 and Glock in Norway that he used to kill 69 teenagers in Norway and 7-8 others. At least the Norwegian police have kept Breivik alive to determine the motives for his mass killing although it is no real consolation. The Norwegian investigators discovered that Breivik was an extensive "user" of video games as it is believed was Adam Lanza.

Only constant public discussion, newspaper editorials, and a shift in the media culture of violence in societies around the world will begin to reverse this disturbing trend. Shifting public consciousness on this may even help to avoid another Sarin gas incident such as the Tokyo event in 1995 killing 13 and injuring many others.

Like the author of the subject article, research seems to be a lost art. One did check on 'registered' firearms, as if everyone bothered with the red tape.

The truth is that Thai people are murdered at an alarming rate. In 2010, over 20,000 Thai people were murdered with firearms, as compared to 9,000 in the US. The US has around 6 times the population and an average of 3 guns per person. YES, you can check statistics, there are over 1 Billion firearms in US households - the rights guaranteed by the US Constitution kept the Japanese from considering a full scale invasion in WWII..!!

So, as stated, it is not the tool, but the person who kills. Banning or controlling guns does not reduce he kill rate - in fact, banning firearms seems to increase the firearm death rate.

Although the mass shooting is such a tragedy, what appears to go unnoticed is the total number of individual gun related deaths which occur over a year.

In America: "...180 children, 11 years of age or younger, were killed by a firearm in 2010, according to the most recent report on violent deaths from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, says Jonathan Lowy, director of the Legal Action Project for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence." And, these are only gun related deaths of young children.

Perhaps, what would be a more effective approach would be not focusing on one event, or one cause of death, but addressing all domestic homicides, regardless of the weapon used, including those caused by domestic violence, child abuse, torture, etc. Lax gun control laws and their enforcement just make using that weapon a more convenient option. Stricter gun control laws and their enforcement, though strongly needed, would have only a limited effect on the total number of homicides committed. The weapon used is secondary to what motivates a person to kill in the first place. Addressing the complex psychological and cultural issues behind violence is the only way to start effectively reversing this trend.

This kind of articles only bring bad ideas to some minds....the more you publish about shooting sprees, the more ideas grow

Too many guns in Thailand already;

* The number of registered guns in Thailand is reported to be 3,870,000¹

* In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Thailand ranked at No. 11¹

http://www.gunpolicy...region/thailand

Guns are a problem legal and illegal but especially illegal that's for sure. The discussion forums in the US have finally gotten around to discussing the "culture of violence" on TV, films, video games, music, comics..etc. The constant pervasive presence of guns, shootem' ups, violence and killing along with the desensitization of it in the video games, TV, and films is a critical problem today. Drugs and criminal gangs haven't helped the proliferation of guns either.

Establishing more restrictive laws on guns would probably help, but without a shift in the culture away from guns, killing, violence, and insensitivity to random pervasive killing in the media, all the controls and laws in the world won't stop these mass killers from popping up.

Better efforts could also be made to eliminate graft, corruption, and the black market for underground weapons. Drugs and weapons go together, and the sources of illegal guns seem off the radar screen. The exception being this Viktor Bout, the Soviet army officer extradited to the US. Whatever happened to him and information that he may have given up? I

the gun thing in the US is a serious problem. Over 1700 Walmart stores were selling the Bushmaster AR-15 on line until two days ago as the result of the Newtown Connecticut mass killing. No question that removing gun sales from that sort of retail level would be a great start. But the culture of violence in media stands on its own as a deep rooted fundamental problem in society. It's shocking to flip around the cable channels tonight and see that it is still hard to find a film or TV program without guns and killing.

Eliminating the retail sales of the Bushmaster AR-15 will help a lot to cut down on guns in public hands and Walmart seems to be taking action fast. Why in the world would Walmart have been selling them on-line and in 1700 stores in the first place? However, it doesn't answer questions about how Anders Behring Breivik was able to acquire his Ruger-14 and Glock in Norway that he used to kill 69 teenagers in Norway and 7-8 others. At least the Norwegian police have kept Breivik alive to determine the motives for his mass killing although it is no real consolation. The Norwegian investigators discovered that Breivik was an extensive "user" of video games as it is believed was Adam Lanza.

Only constant public discussion, newspaper editorials, and a shift in the media culture of violence in societies around the world will begin to reverse this disturbing trend. Shifting public consciousness on this may even help to avoid another Sarin gas incident such as the Tokyo event in 1995 killing 13 and injuring many others.

Like the author of the subject article, research seems to be a lost art. One did check on 'registered' firearms, as if everyone bothered with the red tape.

The truth is that Thai people are murdered at an alarming rate. In 2010, over 20,000 Thai people were murdered with firearms, as compared to 9,000 in the US. The US has around 6 times the population and an average of 3 guns per person. YES, you can check statistics, there are over 1 Billion firearms in US households - the rights guaranteed by the US Constitution kept the Japanese from considering a full scale invasion in WWII..!!

So, as stated, it is not the tool, but the person who kills. Banning or controlling guns does not reduce he kill rate - in fact, banning firearms seems to increase the firearm death rate.

Please people, stop quoting the nonsense that Japan held back from invading the US mainland due to domestic gun ownership. The Japanese were focused on the strategy of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. The quote "You can not invade mainland US, because there is a rifle behind every door" was allegedly made by Yamamoto. Yamamoto was against an attack on America, he had been a Naval Attache in the US and was well aware of the manufacturing strength of the US, but was overruled.

A radio journalist raised the very obvious issue, that banning new sales of certain types today will have a miniscule effect since there are already 100s of millions of guns in the US market already.

Amnesties would bring in a few, but on the basis (as this reported mentioned) that guns don't decompose, there are going to be guns around in American society for hundreds of years to come. The vehement defence of the right to bear arms hundreds of years after the creation of the constitution is a very emotional subject in America, and I don't quite understand it myself. But that is the way it is. They already have checks, limits on who can own, but limiting the types available today isn't going to change much at all. The guns of basically all types are already out there.

The simple thing to do is close the loopholes, ban the heavy weaponry, use a buy back scheme under an amnesty for a year or so and after that anyone found with such a weapon is committing a crime.

They could also stop the sale of ammunition. In the long term the stock of bullets people have would diminish. Stop the sale of materials used for packing used shells as well.

However, it will take a very brave president and government to tackle the issue of gun ownership in the US.

In 2010, over 20,000 Thai people were murdered with firearms, as compared to 9,000 in the US. The US has around 6 times the population and an average of 3 guns per person. YES, you can check statistics, there are over 1 Billion firearms in US households -

Proof and links please

Well it happened already and in the South it is no longer an exception. Weapons of war get stolen all the time from military and if Abhisit and Suthep do not ask the military to set up kill zones in the middle of a metropole the army let them steal so insurgents who are the only real terrorists in Thailand gun people down to the tune of close to a hundred thousand from which 6000 got killed in the last 20 years.

Than we have policemen who are often drunk and get their hands on any gun no questions asked and we have opposition senators who bring weapons of war to dinners. But in the end the chances that numerous people get gunned down in a school in Thailand are significant lower than anywhere in the US where irresponsible parents have multiple weapons at home for the taking of their children. I can't say that I know one single Thai family that hold weapons in homes and in cars like the Americans do. In any country idiots can kill, but at least laws will be changed and guns outlawed. We have no such luck in the US. But I bet that when they sent anyone mandatory to jail for the next ten years whose weapons (even if stolen) are used in a shooting the fun is all but over. Make people responsible for their guns. Stolen? That is bad for the license holder a matter of somnamnaa. The editor should not try to understand American gun laws they are absurd and stupid, that is why so many people get killed in the Philippines too, when a red neck is in charge somewhere shit happens.

UNODC murder rates most recent year Region Rate Count Africa 17.0 169,105 Americas 15.4 144,648 Asia 3.1 127,120 Europe 3.5 24,025 Oceania 2.9 1,180 World 6.9 466,078

Edited December 21, 201213 yr by mogoso

If you don't understand that if the number of legally owned guns goes down, the number of gun available for illegal ownership will go down (via thefts etc.), you're an even more kind of stupid.

Or you have a typical right wing agenda. Wait a minute... where am I?

Some folks choose not to understand it is culture that causes the problem not the weapon. Look at Switzerland, very little gun violence, yet most every adult has an automatic weapon in their home. Look at Chicago, very restrictive gun laws yet hundreds of minors die yearly through gun violence. States in the US that have open and concealed weapons permits have less crime as a percentage than those that don't. Criminals may be loutish people, but they do have a sense of self preservation. These School tragedies that do occur, happen in gun free zones, as the preps are on some kind of vendetta that they want to carry out and don't want to be stopped.

As has been pointed out there are about a billion guns in private ownership in the US. Do you really believe they can all be collected by the government. I have friends that self load all their ammo. I have a friend who is a champion skeet shooter who buys 10 cases of shotgun shells at a time. Many people have tens of thousands of rounds for the weapons they own in their collection. These are law abiding people, who hunt or use their weapons for sport, not gang bangers. How can the US President lecture the US citizens on guns when his Administration were selling weapons to the Mexican Cartels that they knew would be used to kill Mexican citizens. How can he give 200 tanks and 20 jets to Egypt that he knows will be used sooner or later against Israel.

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed -Alexander Hamilton- The Federalist Papers

Edited December 21, 201213 yr by mogoso

There is the rub. With all those guns, not so many problems. It is those mentally unstable people that is the problem. If they can't get a gun, they get a knife, cleaver, blade or a can of gas or make a bomb.

China has a huge problem with people attacking children. They are using blades and even a hammer!

It is really sick attacking children. They can't even take a challenge and attack someone equal. It is the sickos out there that needs legislation. Can't imagine how they would do it. So they will make feel good laws that don't address the real problem.

That episode in China a few weeks ago, the nutter with a knife injured 12 children, can you estimate how many he would have actually killed if instead of a knife he had a gun?

The "it's only a tool like any other" argument is disingenuous, it's a tool specifically made for killing and maiming people, therefore is much more efficient and convenient for that purpose; I'd rather face a homicidal maniac wielding a knife than a gun, wouldn't you?