I have given examples if abuse, others have given examples of abuse.

I'd urge you to be offended by the anuse rather than the manner in which it is reported.

I have given examples of abuse, others have given examples of abuse.

I'd urge you to be offended by the abuse rather than the manner in which it is reported.

I cannot see where any person condones the abuse of another human being of any nationality - why would they? This is plainly unacceptable, but never the less a facet of life in relationships

The contentious issue on this thread is, I believe, the final inflamatory phrase in the opening post

GK said

"It seems there are an awful lot of inadequate men out there who treat their Thai wives/girlfriends like some kind of property, scared sh1tless of allowing another human being the independence we all have a right to."

Dependshow other posters view the quantity 'an awful lot'

Perhaps GK would be so good as to quantify this statement, based on a little more than two examples and visiting Thai language forums

You see to suggest that 'an awful lot', may be a majority carries sinister undertones regarding farang/Thai relationships and is surely an insult to those of us who care for our Thai wives and families, take their thoughts and opinions into consideration, allow free and easy access to cash, encourage them to have opinion and develop their skills....

Oh and just to add 'pussy whipped'........a comment usually garnered from groups who feel compelled to meet up and discuss the poor side of Thai and farang behaviour through the bottom of a glass, and have difficulty understanding why others prefer to spend time with their loved ones

One single person abusing their partner is one too many.

Those who love and care for their partners will be offended by the idea of others abusing their partners and will not be offended by a statement they know does not and cannot apply to themselves.

Perhaps we would do well and reflect on whether, in some small way, it did reflect on us, and how we could make sure that it did not. Or perhaps some prefer not to look in that mirror.

SC

I have given examples of abuse, others have given examples of abuse.

I'd urge you to be offended by the abuse rather than the manner in which it is reported.

But you see GK it is possible to incorporate both into rational thinking, accept that abuse is unacceptable period, but also criticise the inflamatory deliverance that appears to draw (and I am not convinced unintended) 'an awful lot' of 'innocent' farang into question

Edited December 25, 201213 yr by 473geo

I think this is an important point SC.

We often read the opinion here on TV that Thai people are unable to address sensitive issues that may cause offence and yet here we have Farangs ehibiting the self same behaviour.

Surely we can discuss difficult issues without blaming the 'news bringer'. ?

Surely we can listen to a view without jumping to the defensive when clearly nobody is pointing the finger at anyone here?

But you see GK it is possible to incorporate both into rational thinking, accept that abuse is unacceptable period, but also criticise the inflamatory deliverance that appears to draw (and I am not convinced unintended) 'an awful lot' of 'innocent' farang into question

I have not named anyone as comitting this behavior, I have not suggested members of TV are comitting abuse.

Why would anyone who is not an abuser even think I am referring to them?

This abuse occurs - be offended by the abuse.

Very objectively observant Guesthouse.

I have given examples of abuse, others have given examples of abuse.

I'd urge you to be offended by the abuse rather than the manner in which it is reported.

But you see GK it is possible to incorporate both into rational thinking, accept that abuse is unacceptable period, but also criticise the inflamatory deliverance that appears to draw (and I am not convinced unintended) 'an awful lot' of 'innocent' farang into question

You have felt offended by that, but I did not. I did, however, reflect back on my relationships, and the relative level of control and security within them. Personally, I try not to take offence when none was intended, and try still harder not to take offence when it was intended; but in every case that an insult was offered, a brief moment's reflection to consider whether it was justified does not go amiss.

SC

Well good for you SC, except due to the wonderful generalisations of Guesthouse your self interrogation may well turn out to be fruitless as you can easily be drawn under the umbrella of Farang abuse that is highlighted by Guesthouse, which of course you will not mind as it is not specifically aimed at you, just 'an awful lot' of Farang

You may also wish to recall one area of abuse mentioned, control by finance, could catch 'an awful lot' out on Tvisa who insist this is an essential part of any Farang Thai relationship.....

Edited December 25, 201213 yr by 473geo

Time for my Xmas dinner - all the best for 2013 guys

But you see GK it is possible to incorporate both into rational thinking, accept that abuse is unacceptable period, but also criticise the inflamatory deliverance that appears to draw (and I am not convinced unintended) 'an awful lot' of 'innocent' farang into question

I have not named anyone as comitting this behavior, I have not suggested members of TV are comitting abuse.

Why would anyone who is not an abuser even think I am referring to them?

This abuse occurs - be offended by the abuse.

Joseph McCarthy

But you see GK it is possible to incorporate both into rational thinking, accept that abuse is unacceptable period, but also criticise the inflamatory deliverance that appears to draw (and I am not convinced unintended) 'an awful lot' of 'innocent' farang into question

I have not named anyone as comitting this behavior, I have not suggested members of TV are comitting abuse.

Why would anyone who is not an abuser even think I am referring to them?

This abuse occurs - be offended by the abuse.

Joseph McCarthy

The man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy

The legacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

"the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques..."

-----------------------

And for those who disagree:

Choosing appropriate research methodologies and methods

http://www.palgrave.com/skills4study/studentlife/postgraduate/choosing.asp

CMK, found rhat statistical data yet?

It would be against the posting rules on Thai Visa to say any of this stuff about any nationality or ethnic group with such a small amount of documentation and or evidence. Think for a moment about substituting any nationality or race in the OP..

Read the OP, "It seems there are an awful lot of inadequate men out there who treat their Thai wives/girlfriends like some kind of property, scared sh1tless of allowing another human being the independence we all have a right to." and put in your nationality before the word men.

How long do you think the thread would last?

Edited December 25, 201213 yr by chiangmaikelly

CMK, found rhat statistical data yet?

You have presented no statistical data that is why your observations are statistically insignificant. All you have given us is innuendo very much like McCarthy and anyone who does not agree with you, you question their motivation.

If you belive my OP to break the rules use the report button.

You never know it might get you off the hook with those statistics to which you refer but cannot produce.

If you belive my OP to break the rules use the report button.

You never know it might get you off the hook with those statistics to which you refer but cannot produce.

In statistics, a result is called statistically significant if it is unlikely to have occurred by chance. You have produced no statistics or data on abuse and by whom that are statistically significant.

Edited December 25, 201213 yr by chiangmaikelly

If you belive my OP to break the rules use the report button.

You never know it might get you off the hook with those statistics to which you refer but cannot produce.

What statistics did I refer to?

I have not even suggested I have statisticslly valid data.

You on the otherhand have explicitly stated this behaviour is a statistical insignificance.

Once again CMK, to credibly make such a claim you must have reviewed the statistical data.

Either show us that statistical data or accept your reference to 'statisticsl insignificance' has no credibility.

Are we in court?

Are we in court?

Does sound like it...

Judge Guesthouse now has a lot more time on his hands after events elsewhere.

Let's all settle down a bit.

Let's all settle down a bit.

And get back on topic. I care about the issue raised by guesthouse.

Let's all settle down a bit.

And get back on topic. I care about the issue raised by guesthouse.

Nah this has run its course.

Call it quits then..

I have not even suggested I have statisticslly valid data.

You on the otherhand have explicitly stated this behaviour is a statistical insignificance.

Once again CMK, to credibly make such a claim you must have reviewed the statistical data.

Either show us that statistical data or accept your reference to 'statisticsl insignificance' has no credibility.

OK I think I can deal with that. Statistical insignificance is both a word and a number. As a word it means; does not occur more than by random chance. As a number it is somewhere around 5%. So GH and others gave somewhere between 2 and 4 examples out of 30 million women if we are looking at all Thai women. If we are looking at Thai women in relationships with Farang men a lot less than that, say a million or so.

So abuse among Thai women would be statistically insignificant unless some one comes up with a lot more than 4 examples out of a million or 30 million.

What can we say for sure about Thai women that would be statistically significant for purposes of understanding the concept? Thai women have black hair and Thai women speak Thai. A statistically significant percent of Thai women speak Issan/Lao. A statistically insignificant percent of Thai women eat blue cheese on a daily basis.

So if we now all understand the concept statistically insignificant means roughly less than 5% of anything. Maybe 1% or 3% but at any rate less than 5%.

I'm pleased to say that several members here have taken part in this discussion, adding observations of their own, offering their own reflections on the issue, and in some cases offering constructive criticism.

Sadly, others have adopted the response of personal attack, so well known a tactic of those who cannot or will not deal with the views of others that it has a Latin name (argumentum ad hominem).

We even have an unsubstantiated call to the mathematics of statistics and the ' statistical insignificance'.

Well as I have said, I'm sure the people at the receiving end of abuse find no comfort in the the idea they are suffering a 'statistical insignificance'.

I and others have made observations of and have reported abuse - If you as an individual wish to deny that abuse takes place, paint it an insignficance or launch personal attacks on me for reporting what I have seen, then what point trying to convince you to consider your view point.

Abuse of another human being is something you choose to ignore, deny or place in the corner with things that don't matter.

The clock ticks, time passes, life goes on - These things continue to happen and will happen again - Othes will witness these things.

But if they have read this thread they will at least be aware of the issue, perhaps some might open their eyes to abuse that they might otherwise not have seen.

I've not seen any meaningful content added to this thread for a few pages, while at the same time I note one who has added unfounded statements in an attempt to trash the thread refuses to man up to his error.

The mods have asked us to calm down, I trust this last post of mine gives a clear summary of my thoughts on the thread and shall therefore ask the Mods to close it.

Thank you to those who made meaningful, credible contribution on both sides of the discussion.

Edited December 26, 201213 yr by GuestHouse

I'm pleased to say that several members here have taken part in this discussion, adding observations of their own, offering their own reflections on the issue, and in some cases offering constructive criticism.

Sadly, others have adopted the response of personal attack, so well known a tactic of those who cannot or will not deal with the views of others that it has a Latin name (argumentum ad hominem).

We even have an unsubstantiated call to the mathematics of statistics and the ' statistical insignificance'.

Well as I have said, I'm sure the people at the receiving end of abuse find no comfort in the the idea they are suffering a 'statistical insignificance'.

I and others have made observations of and have reported abuse - If you as an individual wish to deny that abuse takes place, paint it an insignficance or launch personal attacks on me for reporting what I have seen, then what point trying to convince you to consider your view point.

Abuse of another human being is something you choose to ignore, deny or place in the corner with things that don't matter.

The clock ticks, time passes, life goes on - These things continue to happen and will happen again - Othes will witness these things.

But if they have read this thread they will at least be aware of the issue, perhaps some might open their eyes to abuse that they might otherwise not have seen.

I've not seen any meaningful content added to this thread for a few pages, while at the same time I note one who has added unfounded statements in an attempt to trash the thread refuses to man up to his error.

The mods have asked us to calm down, I trust this last post of mine gives a clear summary of my thoughts on the thread and shall therefore ask the Mods to close it.

Thank you to those who made meaningful, credible contribution on both sides of the discussion.

Perhaps you cannot deal with ALL opinions.

Very little point on starting a thread on TV and expecting everyone to agree with you.

Especially as you don't actually live in Thailand.

Very little point on starting a thread on TV and expecting everyone to agree with you.

Especially as you don't actually live in Thailand.

....... and probably can't speak Thai.