Control Freak Farangs

[chiangmaikelly]

CMK if you wish to ignore an issue because you believe it to be statistically insignificant then up to you but I doibt that the victims of the abuse find any comfort in your assertion that they are suffering a behaviour which you claim is a statistical insignificance.

Meanwhile we should note that while you introduced a tutorial on statistical analysis into the discussion as a call to authority, you did not nor have not substantiated the statistical data you base your argument on.

You state a statisticsl insignificance without providing the data to support the claim.

Your call to statistics must therefore be seen for what it is, an unsubstantiated call to authority - a red herring.

http://www.stats.org...ignificance.htm

You have presented no data to support your claim that Farang men are abusive to Thai women. It remains an old wives tale with no support. Unlike the definition of statistical significance which is rather well accepted. If you want to push your old wives tale maybe someone can suggest a forum that is populated by people who are gullible enough to believe them.

Edited December 24, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[GuestHouse]

Yes CMK, I understand statistical insignificance, as I have stated statistical analysis is part of what I do for a living.

You missed the point - You brought statistical insignificance into the discussion but have not provided any statistical data to support your claim that a statistical insignificance applies.

Your claim is unsubstantiated - it is a red herring.

[StreetCowboy]

If there is no underlying pattern in the whole population (the null hypothesis), what is the chance that we would see the data that we see in a sample of the population? If it less than 5 percent, then we suspect that there is something going on with the whole population. Such results are called statistically significant. If the chance of occurring randomly is not small, the possibility that the events occurred together just by luck is too high to dismiss, and we conclude nothing. Small is relative, but many scientific disciplines use 5 percent (.05) as the border between small and not small. The 5 percent line is arbitrary, but has become standard in the field of biomedical research; statistical significance is the golden measuring stick for evaluating data.

Thanks for the lesson in statistical analysis (a subject at the heart of much of the work I do).

You did not asnwer the question.

Nobody is saying that the abuse I and others report is predomenant or the norm. We simply say it does take place.

You do not answer the question I pose. How could you, since it needs only one Thai woman to subjegate herself to an abusive farang partner for your argement of 'Never' to be demonstrated as false.

The number of Thai women who subjegate themselves to an abusive Farang partner is not statistically significant.

In what way is it not statistically significant? Are you saying that because most people are not abusive, we should ignore those that are? Are you saying that because one racial group commits a smaller number of offences of a given type (say, because that population is a small minority) then we should ignore their offences? I should try that with the forces of law and order, if I am ever stopped for drink driving.

SC

Edited December 24, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[chiangmaikelly]

Yes CMK, I understand statistical insignificance, as I have stated statistical analysis is part of what I do for a living.

You missed the point - You brought statistical insignificance into the discussion but have not provided any statistical data to support your claim that a statistical insignificance applies.

Your claim is unsubstantiated - it is a red herring.

You made the claim that Farang men abuse Thai women. What information did you pressent to substantiate

it in the first place? You made a foolish claim. If there was any data of a statistical significance to substantiate it we all would have heard about it.

[chiangmaikelly]

If there is no underlying pattern in the whole population (the null hypothesis), what is the chance that we would see the data that we see in a sample of the population? If it less than 5 percent, then we suspect that there is something going on with the whole population. Such results are called statistically significant. If the chance of occurring randomly is not small, the possibility that the events occurred together just by luck is too high to dismiss, and we conclude nothing. Small is relative, but many scientific disciplines use 5 percent (.05) as the border between small and not small. The 5 percent line is arbitrary, but has become standard in the field of biomedical research; statistical significance is the golden measuring stick for evaluating data.

Thanks for the lesson in statistical analysis (a subject at the heart of much of the work I do).

You did not asnwer the question.

Nobody is saying that the abuse I and others report is predomenant or the norm. We simply say it does take place.

You do not answer the question I pose. How could you, since it needs only one Thai woman to subjegate herself to an abusive farang partner for your argement of 'Never' to be demonstrated as false.

The number of Thai women who subjegate themselves to an abusive Farang partner is not statistically significant.

In what way is it not statistically significant? Are you saying that because most people are not abusive, we should ignore those that are? Are you saying that because one racial group commits a smaller number of offences of a given type (say, because that population is a small minority) then we should ignore their offences? I should try that with the forces of law and order, if I am ever stopped for drink driving.

SC

You know very well that any story of a Farang man abusing a Thai woman receives major attention in Thailand. If there was any trend or significant number of instances of a Farang man abusing a Thai woman it would be plastered all over the Thai papers and Thai Visa. There are many posters who love to post any story about a Farang and Thai relationship that goes wrong. Don't worry we would all hear about. This is not a surprise to you I am sure. Check out the Austrian guy and the deaf lady in Pattaya runnning right now.

[GuestHouse]

Yes CMK, I understand statistical insignificance, as I have stated statistical analysis is part of what I do for a living.

You missed the point - You brought statistical insignificance into the discussion but have not provided any statistical data to support your claim that a statistical insignificance applies.

Your claim is unsubstantiated - it is a red herring.

[rene123]

I have re-read GuestHouses' original post for the third time and it's easy to see why some people here go off on a tangent. Mental and physical abuse happens in thousands of relationships throughout the world. But, if you examine the reasons for those specific to Thai/farang relationships there are some valid replies here. Number one is that farang men who come to Thailand after suffering failed relationships at home (pick a country) find they've just walked into Disney World for men. There are young, reasonably attractive women everywhere in the hangouts that farangs frequent. Most of these are the well known bar scenes well known throughout Thailand. The women have come there for a reason and the farang men are their targets. Everyone is hoping for the holy grail, both the men and the women. The women have mostly had failed relationships with Thai men, and the farang men have had failed relationships with their spouses back home. Unfortunately, both the men and the women have been hardened and are now wary. They've heard all the stories. Men naturally assume the woman is going to go back to her old ways if he leaves her alone, and the Thai women believe that every man is both wealthy and worth fleecing. A lack of trust by both parties does not make for a good start to a new relationship.

I think Thailand has an inordinate number of unique characters who do not fit into what is considered "normal" in the western societies. But, I highly doubt if there are any more farang men who are women abusers in Thailand than anywhere else, just as I highly doubt if their are a lot of Thai women who are men abusers. We can certainly find other countries that are far worse. But, I could well believe that farang men who marry bar girls much younger than themselves, and then take them home ot their own country, might be overly jealous or paranoid that their bar girl might revert to her former ways.

[chiangmaikelly]

Yes CMK, I understand statistical insignificance, as I have stated statistical analysis is part of what I do for a living.

You missed the point - You brought statistical insignificance into the discussion but have not provided any statistical data to support your claim that a statistical insignificance applies.

Your claim is unsubstantiated - it is a red herring.

Yes CMK, I understand statistical insignificance, as I have stated statistical analysis is part of what I do for a living.

You missed the point - You brought statistical insignificance into the discussion but have not provided any statistical data to support your claim that a statistical insignificance applies.

Your claim is unsubstantiated - it is a red herring.

You made a claim with no evidence or data or shred of proof and when I said it was not true instead of offering any proof or data or information to back up your outlandish claim you call my statement a red herring? Ya right. First off bring to the table some kind of information that will even in some small way substantiate your original claim without trying to obfuscate the issue. You are wrong to begin with as you have given no proof that any abuse has taken place by a Farang man against Thai women.

[chiangmaikelly]

I have re-read GuestHouses' original post for the third time and it's easy to see why some people here go off on a tangent. Mental and physical abuse happens in thousands of relationships throughout the world. But, if you examine the reasons for those specific to Thai/farang relationships there are some valid replies here. Number one is that farang men who come to Thailand after suffering failed relationships at home (pick a country) find they've just walked into Disney World for men. There are young, reasonably attractive women everywhere in the hangouts that farangs frequent. Most of these are the well known bar scenes well known throughout Thailand. The women have come there for a reason and the farang men are their targets. Everyone is hoping for the holy grail, both the men and the women. The women have mostly had failed relationships with Thai men, and the farang men have had failed relationships with their spouses back home. Unfortunately, both the men and the women have been hardened and are now wary. They've heard all the stories. Men naturally assume the woman is going to go back to her old ways if he leaves her alone, and the Thai women believe that every man is both wealthy and worth fleecing. A lack of trust by both parties does not make for a good start to a new relationship.

I think Thailand has an inordinate number of unique characters who do not fit into what is considered "normal" in the western societies. But, I highly doubt if there are any more farang men who are women abusers in Thailand than anywhere else, just as I highly doubt if their are a lot of Thai women who are men abusers. We can certainly find other countries that are far worse. But, I could well believe that farang men who marry bar girls much younger than themselves, and then take them home ot their own country, might be overly jealous or paranoid that their bar girl might revert to her former ways.

Forgive me for noticing but I believe both you and Guesthouse are offering your opinion of Thai wives and out of all the people posting on Thai Visa you are among the few who don't have one.

[Zodiac]

I have not read all the replies to this interesting topic though it seems to me that many of these control freaks seem to suffer amongst other things from uncontrollable jealousy. And is there any "cure" for that?

[GuestHouse]

CMK, I have teported personal observations of abusive relationships, orhers have reported incidences of abuse they themselves know of.

What 'proof do you want'?

If you wish to state you do mot believe these reports then do so, but please spare us referenced to statistical insignificance which are unsubstantiated (you have not produced the data to support your claim of statistical insignificance )

Your red herring argument is transparrent for what it is.

[chiangmaikelly]

CMK, I have teported personal observations of abusive relationships, orhers have reported incidences of abuse they themselves know of.

What 'proof do you want'?

If you wish to state you do mot believe these reports then do so, but please spare us referenced to statistical insignificance which are unsubstantiated (you have not produced the data to support your claim of statistical insignificance )

Your red herring argument is transparrent for what it is.

Pot calling the kettle black? How many Farang Thai relationships are in the sample? How many are abusive? Sorry you offer nothing but hearsay of the worst kind. If there were any of any statistical significance to Farang Thai abuse the Thai media would be all over it and anyone who knows anything about Thailand knows that. The Thai police would be all over it. Heck even Thai Visa would be all over it. You are inventing a problem where none exists. Stop trying to cloud the issue with semantics.

You asked a question, "You do not answer the question I pose. How could you, since it needs only one Thai woman to subjugate herself to an abusive farang partner for your argument of 'Never' to be demonstrated as false. "

I answered it, "The number of Thai women who subjugate themselves to an abusive Farang partner is not statistically significant."

Then you began your semantic argument about statistically significant. If my answer was not correct it would be in the Thai press.

Edited December 24, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[GuestHouse]

Forgive me for noticing but I believe both you and Guesthouse are offering your opinion of Thai wives and out of all the people posting on Thai Visa you are among the few who don't have one.

CMK, I don't recall that we have ever met added to which I am pretty guarded in the amount of personal information I give about myself here on TV.

I'd be interested therefore to hear on what basis you make the above statement - for example, have we infact met in the past or do you have some direct knowledge which confirms your statement?

[GuestHouse]

CMK, I have teported personal observations of abusive relationships, orhers have reported incidences of abuse they themselves know of.

What 'proof do you want'?

If you wish to state you do mot believe these reports then do so, but please spare us referenced to statistical insignificance which are unsubstantiated (you have not produced the data to support your claim of statistical insignificance )

Your red herring argument is transparrent for what it is.

Pot calling the kettle black? How many Farang Thai relationships are in the sample? How many are abusive? Sorry you offer nothing but hearsay of the worst kind. If there were any of any statistical significance to Farang Thai abuse the Thai media would be all over it and anyone who knows anything about Thailand knows that. The Thai police would be all over it. Heck even Thai Visa would be all over it. You are inventing a problem where none exists. Stop trying to cloud the issue with semantics.

You asked a question, "You do not answer the question I pose. How could you, since it needs only one Thai woman to subjugate herself to an abusive farang partner for your argument of 'Never' to be demonstrated as false. "

I answered it, "The number of Thai women who subjugate themselves to an abusive Farang partner is not statistically significant."

Then you began your semantic argument about statistically significant. If my answer was not correct it would be in the Thai press.

No I have reported personal observation - I have made absolutely no claim to these observations having any general application.

Your assertion that something would be in the Thai press another red herring - If its not in the press it does not occur..... We most of us read the Thai press, and we most of us are aware of its failings.

[GuestHouse]

Can you please provide the statistical data to support your assertion of 'Statistical Insignificance'

You have claimed 'statisitical insignificance' to do so you would have to examine the data - please show us the data.

[StreetCowboy]

CMK, I have teported personal observations of abusive relationships, orhers have reported incidences of abuse they themselves know of.

What 'proof do you want'?

If you wish to state you do mot believe these reports then do so, but please spare us referenced to statistical insignificance which are unsubstantiated (you have not produced the data to support your claim of statistical insignificance )

Your red herring argument is transparrent for what it is.

Pot calling the kettle black? How many Farang Thai relationships are in the sample? How many are abusive? Sorry you offer nothing but hearsay of the worst kind. If there were any of any statistical significance to Farang Thai abuse the Thai media would be all over it and anyone who knows anything about Thailand knows that. The Thai police would be all over it. Heck even Thai Visa would be all over it. You are inventing a problem where none exists. Stop trying to cloud the issue with semantics.

He's offered a couple of anecdotes. If you choose to generalise from that, you are welcome. Personally, I thought that they were interesting anecdotes, and it was interesting to try and deduce to the personalities, circumstances that led to those events, and whether they had any relevance to our own relationships. I can see how some people might feel the need to rubbish his initial post, though, but I felt it better not to draw attention to myself

SC

[chiangmaikelly]

Forgive me for noticing but I believe both you and Guesthouse are offering your opinion of Thai wives and out of all the people posting on Thai Visa you are among the few who don't have one.

CMK, I don't recall that we have ever met added to which I am pretty guarded in the amount of personal information I give about myself here on TV.

I'd be interested therefore to hear on what basis you make the above statement - for example, have we infact met in the past or do you have some direct knowledge which confirms your statement?

You have written about it on Thai Visa, apparently you have forgotten.

[GuestHouse]

You have written about it on Thai Visa, apparently you have forgotten.

I have, and I have been acused of being a racist and misanderist and of course white night for doing so, added to which you yourself deny what I have said to be the truth.

I can quite understand why someone might choose not to report such abuse on TV

[GuestHouse]

CMK..... do you have that statistical data to demonstrate your claim of 'Statistical Insignificance'?

[chiangmaikelly]

CMK, I have teported personal observations of abusive relationships, orhers have reported incidences of abuse they themselves know of.

What 'proof do you want'?

If you wish to state you do mot believe these reports then do so, but please spare us referenced to statistical insignificance which are unsubstantiated (you have not produced the data to support your claim of statistical insignificance )

Your red herring argument is transparrent for what it is.

Pot calling the kettle black? How many Farang Thai relationships are in the sample? How many are abusive? Sorry you offer nothing but hearsay of the worst kind. If there were any of any statistical significance to Farang Thai abuse the Thai media would be all over it and anyone who knows anything about Thailand knows that. The Thai police would be all over it. Heck even Thai Visa would be all over it. You are inventing a problem where none exists. Stop trying to cloud the issue with semantics.

You asked a question, "You do not answer the question I pose. How could you, since it needs only one Thai woman to subjugate herself to an abusive farang partner for your argument of 'Never' to be demonstrated as false. "

I answered it, "The number of Thai women who subjugate themselves to an abusive Farang partner is not statistically significant."

Then you began your semantic argument about statistically significant. If my answer was not correct it would be in the Thai press.

No I have reported personal observation - I have made absolutely no claim to these observations having any general application.

Your assertion that something would be in the Thai press another red herring - If its not in the press it does not occur..... We most of us read the Thai press, and we most of us are aware of its failings.

I will agree the Thai press has a lot of failings but not reporting any misbehavior of a Farang towards a Thai whatever his age or nationality is not one of them.

Edited December 24, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[GuestHouse]

Data CMK.... do you have the data to support your claim of 'Statistical Insignificance'?

[StreetCowboy]

CMK, I have teported personal observations of abusive relationships, orhers have reported incidences of abuse they themselves know of.

What 'proof do you want'?

If you wish to state you do mot believe these reports then do so, but please spare us referenced to statistical insignificance which are unsubstantiated (you have not produced the data to support your claim of statistical insignificance )

Your red herring argument is transparrent for what it is.

Pot calling the kettle black? How many Farang Thai relationships are in the sample? How many are abusive? Sorry you offer nothing but hearsay of the worst kind. If there were any of any statistical significance to Farang Thai abuse the Thai media would be all over it and anyone who knows anything about Thailand knows that. The Thai police would be all over it. Heck even Thai Visa would be all over it. You are inventing a problem where none exists. Stop trying to cloud the issue with semantics.

You asked a question, "You do not answer the question I pose. How could you, since it needs only one Thai woman to subjugate herself to an abusive farang partner for your argument of 'Never' to be demonstrated as false. "

I answered it, "The number of Thai women who subjugate themselves to an abusive Farang partner is not statistically significant."

Then you began your semantic argument about statistically significant. If my answer was not correct it would be in the Thai press.

No I have reported personal observation - I have made absolutely no claim to these observations having any general application.

Your assertion that something would be in the Thai press another red herring - If its not in the press it does not occur..... We most of us read the Thai press, and we most of us are aware of its failings.

I will agree the Thai press has a lot of failings but not reporting any misbehavior of a Farang towards a Thai whatever his age or nationality is not one of them.

I'm not sure that what the OP has mentioned would be considered criminal by the Thai press

[rene123]

I have re-read GuestHouses' original post for the third time and it's easy to see why some people here go off on a tangent. Mental and physical abuse happens in thousands of relationships throughout the world. But, if you examine the reasons for those specific to Thai/farang relationships there are some valid replies here. Number one is that farang men who come to Thailand after suffering failed relationships at home (pick a country) find they've just walked into Disney World for men. There are young, reasonably attractive women everywhere in the hangouts that farangs frequent. Most of these are the well known bar scenes well known throughout Thailand. The women have come there for a reason and the farang men are their targets. Everyone is hoping for the holy grail, both the men and the women. The women have mostly had failed relationships with Thai men, and the farang men have had failed relationships with their spouses back home. Unfortunately, both the men and the women have been hardened and are now wary. They've heard all the stories. Men naturally assume the woman is going to go back to her old ways if he leaves her alone, and the Thai women believe that every man is both wealthy and worth fleecing. A lack of trust by both parties does not make for a good start to a new relationship.

I think Thailand has an inordinate number of unique characters who do not fit into what is considered "normal" in the western societies. But, I highly doubt if there are any more farang men who are women abusers in Thailand than anywhere else, just as I highly doubt if their are a lot of Thai women who are men abusers. We can certainly find other countries that are far worse. But, I could well believe that farang men who marry bar girls much younger than themselves, and then take them home ot their own country, might be overly jealous or paranoid that their bar girl might revert to her former ways.

Forgive me for noticing but I believe both you and Guesthouse are offering your opinion of Thai wives and out of all the people posting on Thai Visa you are among the few who don't have one.

That may be true, but I am talking from a woman's perspective, and women say things to other women that they don't say to men. And, just because I am a woman does not mean that I am not observant.

[GuestHouse]

That may be true, but I am talking from a woman's perspective, and women say things to other women that they don't say to men. And, just because I am a woman does not mean that I am not observant.

More to the point, it may not be true.

CMK has made a claim about two of us here, the basis of which he makes that claim about me he is unable to explain.

[TommoPhysicist]

That may be true, but I am talking from a woman's perspective, and women say things to other women that they don't say to men. And, just because I am a woman does not mean that I am not observant.

One of the great and unique things about Thailand, is the Thais will only tell you what they think you want to hear.

I can tell you for sure, no Thai lady is ever going to have a frank and truthful conversation with you. You will never be 'all girls together' with Thais, as a foreign woman, you will forever be an outsider. The only way you could ever get near the truth, is to understand Thai, when the Thais are chatting and don't realize you can understand Thai.

Edited December 24, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[chiangmaikelly]

That may be true, but I am talking from a woman's perspective, and women say things to other women that they don't say to men. And, just because I am a woman does not mean that I am not observant.

More to the point, it may not be true.

CMK has made a claim about two of us here, the basis of which he makes that claim about me he is unable to explain.

What claim?

[GuestHouse]

Forgive me for noticing but I believe both you and Guesthouse are offering your opinion of Thai wives and out of all the people posting on Thai Visa you are among the few who don't have one.

This claim.

I know the basis of your statement with respect to Rene, I'd liek to know the basis of your statement with respect to myself.

As I have said, you and I have never met and I assure you I have never made any statement on TV with respect to the nationality of my wife.

[Dancealot]

I understand the OP and CMK. As an objective i think there is some heat between you 2. Surely i would not consider an abuse case statistically significant and i think CMK doesnt mean that. But it is a point of view to reconsider nevertheless when you think in military terms..

I am duly aware of, and in agreement with Guesthouses views. SC has got a point as wel on the top of the page.

[Chittychangchang]

Indeed what someone classes as abuse another might class as normal, the bounderies and different persons perspective on life make the whole question impossible to statistically analize....

[rattler]

Most surveys indicate that it's a fairly 'equal opportunities' thing.

Men just are less likely to admit it happening to them.

Probably due to the type of attitude you display in your post.

Very good. I was just getting ready to ask about the farangs I see at the market pushing a shopping cart as the wife decides what to buy and fills the cart. Naturally the farang pays for it. All the while the farang has a downtrodden look, is actually looking down, doesn't look happy, and won't make eye contact with anyone.

I've seen that so many times it's almost like standard fare.

Just my observations, and not implying that you said this.

I always tell my Wife what to do and she always does what she wants!!!