Buying / Renovating A Condo In The Night Bazzar Area

[beautifulthailand99]

My Thai wife and I are considering buying a condo in Chiang Mai - and I like the area around the Night Bazaar. We would be staying there over the UK winter and will be inviting over friends but intend to mothball the condo over the summer months. Have seen some old fashioned studios apts in an old well maintained block - have one large room , with separate bathroom / shower and balcony with AC unit. Asking prices are 950 and 750 for two of the units or 1.5 if you buy them both together.(they are on high floors).

Annual maintenance charges are c6.8k pa per unit and the leasehold I understand is forever and the block owners require 20% of any rent if we rent on. I have rented short term in this block before and there is a good mix of farang/Thai and no dogs and a good vibe to the place.

My questions are ;

1) Does this sound like a good deal ?

2) What would it cost to rip out all the old stuff back to the walls (they are very tired and worn out) and re-fit with good quality kitchen / bathroom / furnishings. (Im thinkin about 500,000 a unit).

3) Would we be overdoing it re getting our money back on a resale down the line.

4) Is there anything else I should be thinking about ?

Many thanks for any help you may be able to give me in advance. Im really growing to like Chiang Mai as a liveable place for a 52 year old Brit with reasonable capital and income. Not least is the agreeable winter weather,affordable costs and presence of intelligent and decent farang expats.

[eyecatcher]

Its not an easy one to answer because only you have the visual of the size, the condition, the location.

but ask yourself; would i buy the same condo for 1.25 million which is ready to move in.

If you hint that the place needs "gutting" for starters, this tells me the existing value is negligable; in other words 750k and 950k is way overpriced.......also bear in mind 500k can give you a newly built house, and 750k a lovely plot to build it on.

Before you proceed further, look around on other websites etc, agencies, just to get a guide as to what condos is different areas are costing.

House and property renovation is not the walk in the park you may think even to experienced developers, and condos are fraught with problems and issues on shared boundaries and services.

higher floors especially have impact on other residents, removal of debris, carrying in lifts.

I am sure others will hit on the issues of communicating with thai builders.

However If its something you have confidence in succeeding then I suggest you take someone with a building background (farang) to have a look with you for another opinion on the ground.

goodluck

[beautifulthailand99]

Thanks eyecatcher some good food for thought. Ive just started out on this process so am relatively fixated on the most obvious area for a farang which is the Night Bazzaar. The location is the Night Bazaar Condotel and I have a hunch I wouldlike to be near facilities that I have enjoyed to date such as the Blues Bar and British Pub etc and want a place that is fairly cost effective. Having looked at a swanky high end new build condo with shared pool and gym for 5 mill this place looks affordable. I would say like any place it had some high residual value given its location and attractivness to a mixed crowd. As to what that is I shall need to do some more spade work to establish fair value. My biggest fear is being marooned way out way from the bustle of life that I perceive to be important at this stage of the process.

Good point as to removing any building debris but as they have two lifts and are not the swankiest of pads Im sure that could be accomodated without inconveniencing other residents unduly. My wife is a great negotiator of all things so once we had recommended builders Im sure she could keep them on track.

[eyecatcher]

It has to be said that Thais are more tolerant than us Farang, When renovating my own place....and by renovating I mean drills, kangos, hammers, angle grinders I was a bit "so what...about the neighbours" during the day but you know when a new business moved in next door to me and they were simply screwing up new plasterboards I was around there nearly every day making a nuisance and if honest an embarrassment of myself with my heavy handed discontented attitude.

In hindsight now I appreciate the difference between renovation and a make over and the impact on neighbouring properties.

Lets just say in a condo, I reckon everyone can hear you fart !

[Rancid]

Leasehold? 20% of rent to the block owners? I've owned several condos on and off and always owned them outright and never gave 1 baht up when I rented them, so honestly don't know what you are talking about as never heard of this before, as such sounds like a scam.

[anto]

plus one .If you own the Condo you do not pay a percentage to the Condo management of any rental .Maybe you are getting mixed up .If you want to get the Condo management to manage your rental for you then you would pay them a fee ,but still nothing like 20 % .

[beautifulthailand99]

I think you are probably right anto - it will be %20 if they manage the renting out for you. If I buy one and do it up for say total 1.2 million baht or £24k is that too much for a good studio apartment in that area I guess is my key concern. With a London house to sell it seems cheap !

[anto]

You ask if the units are good value without giving the sqm area ,and size of balcony .To do up may cost around B200,000 a unit or more depending on standard you require .Dont depend on making a profit .If you get several years out of them and your money back you will be doing well .

[hellodolly]

Hard to tell when you give no information other than area. How big is it.

And the most important thing of all is the location worth it to me.

I am not exactly brimming over with joy about my place. I can afford much better. But the location and the view far out weigh my complaints.

Bottom line is what is it worth to you. If money value is your main concern you might want to look in other areas.

[beautifulthailand99]

Thanks for all the helpful replies - the room is I guess 3 by 4 m with a bathroom having a bath and toilet and compact size - balcony samll with AC unit on it so only really suitable for drying clothes and alllowing guests to have a fag. The point that hellodolly makes is the most pertinent to me - we would be buying to have our own space and feel a sense of ownership not for profit and if we get our money back down the line then that would be more than worth it.That said it would be more like a 5 star hotel room than a home.

Photos here https://plus.google.com/photos/103283306976121945350/albums/5824933115430290289

[kaptainrob]

Photos show room is more like 4m x 4. Does the building have parking for car, or only m/b? A ~300k reno would bring 2 rooms (assume with door knocked thru) up to ~2mBt which is ok if car parking is available.

By way of comparison:- our previous 3-roomed rental near Wat Suan Dok (Suthep area) was a new condo and included seperate bedroom, lounge/dining, large kitchen + bathroom. Fully fitted with extensive built-ins each apartment was being sold for 1.5 to 1.8 mBt. 2 bedders on 6th floor were ~3 mBt with views south to Airport.

Note the extensive use of built-ins to maximise storage space:-

Big cost in a reno would be cabinetry. Even the dining table/chairs folded/stored away ... quite nifty ..

I quite like your idea, living close to Night Bazaar, The Dukes, etc has many advantages.

[beautifulthailand99]

Thanks Rob yes your condo looks like a very nifty conversion. Project on hold now until; I return to UK - sell house in London and return with serious scoping. Starting to like more and more the project - its about making a chic and comfortable place to live for the winter and entertain friends not about any mega returns - if we got back what we spent at the end I would consider it money well spent and well within my budget. As you say the Night Bazaar also central for farang land and good for guests when they come as it is in the thick of it. Thanks for all the helpful and insightful replies - Thai Visa Forum is one of the most essential parts of growing confidence in all of this. Otherwise its widely believed Thai half truths and misconceptions.

[hellodolly]

Photos show room is more like 4m x 4. Does the building have parking for car, or only m/b? A ~300k reno would bring 2 rooms (assume with door knocked thru) up to ~2mBt which is ok if car parking is available.

By way of comparison:- our previous 3-roomed rental near Wat Suan Dok (Suthep area) was a new condo and included seperate bedroom, lounge/dining, large kitchen + bathroom. Fully fitted with extensive built-ins each apartment was being sold for 1.5 to 1.8 mBt. 2 bedders on 6th floor were ~3 mBt with views south to Airport.

Note the extensive use of built-ins to maximise storage space:-

Big cost in a reno would be cabinetry. Even the dining table/chairs folded/stored away ... quite nifty ..

I quite like your idea, living close to Night Bazaar, The Dukes, etc has many advantages.

Rob you have often mentioned the condo what was the square meters of it?

[kaptainrob]

Rob you have often mentioned the condo what was the square meters of it?

Around 48 sq/m. Room sizes were adequate and we were very happy living there.... almost regret not buying but the missus loves a garden even if things don't grow and/or are cheaper at market.

[TommoPhysicist]

You can buy an older condo by the train station for 200k

Or a newly refurbished condo at the crossroads of the 118/121 for 150k

Why are you wanting to spend so much money?

[worgeordie]

You can buy an older condo by the train station for 200k

Or a newly refurbished condo at the crossroads of the 118/121 for 150k

Why are you wanting to spend so much money?

Its all about location location location, near the night bazaar,would be a decent place to live (but not for me)

and would certainly be easy to rent out,and beautifulthailand99, does not seem short of a bob or two,so sure he would

be looking for something a bit better than a 150-200k place, wonder what kind of niebours you would get in a place like

that?,you get what you pay for

regards Worgeordie

[kaptainrob]

You can buy an older condo by the train station for 200k

Or a newly refurbished condo at the crossroads of the 118/121 for 150k

Why are you wanting to spend so much money?

Near the train station has .... WHAT going for it? Especially at 200k Bt

[BTM]

You can buy an older condo by the train station for 200k

Or a newly refurbished condo at the crossroads of the 118/121 for 150k

Why are you wanting to spend so much money?

Hi, Im also about to move to Chiang Mai.. can you PM me a link or give me some more informtion on these please?

I guess these would be very Thai style and rent for about 2,000 Baht per month?

Any info welcomed.

[beautifulthailand99]

You can buy an older condo by the train station for 200k

Or a newly refurbished condo at the crossroads of the 118/121 for 150k

Why are you wanting to spend so much money?

Its all about location location location, near the night bazaar,would be a decent place to live (but not for me)

and would certainly be easy to rent out,and beautifulthailand99, does not seem short of a bob or two,so sure he would

be looking for something a bit better than a 150-200k place, wonder what kind of niebours you would get in a place like

that?,you get what you pay for

regards Worgeordie

Worgeordie - bang on the money with your thinking took the words out of my mouth - its all about location , location , location - that said I could tire of NB or even Chiang Mai in the long run - but I dont think so.

[Paagai]

The location is the Night Bazaar Condotel and I have a hunch I wouldlike to be near facilities that I have enjoyed to date such as the Blues Bar and British Pub etc and want a place that is fairly cost effective

I would suggest you think longer term. I lived in this place when I first moved to Chiang Mai. For three months I loved it; a total blast, out partying every night, just like being on holiday. But, after that I totally burned out on the whole scene and the losers who hang around that part of town. I also discovered that the rest of Chiang Mai has so much more to offer, and much nicer people who don't see every passing farang as a trick or meal ticket.

You may well find your perceptions of this area change very rapidly once you start living there, especially if you already have a Thai wife. These days I pretty much have to be dragged screaming to go anywhere near the Night Bazaar and Loi Kroh area.

[TommoPhysicist]

I would suggest you think longer term. I lived in this place when I first moved to Chiang Mai. For three months I loved it; a total blast, out partying every night, just like being on holiday. But, after that I totally burned out on the whole scene and the losers who hang around that part of town. I also discovered that the rest of Chiang Mai has so much more to offer, and much nicer people who don't see every passing farang as a trick or meal ticket.

You may well find your perceptions of this area change very rapidly once you start living there, especially if you already have a Thai wife. These days I pretty much have to be dragged screaming to go anywhere near the Night Bazaar and Loi Kroh area.

He's right you know.

[beautifulthailand99]

I would suggest you think longer term. I lived in this place when I first moved to Chiang Mai. For three months I loved it; a total blast, out partying every night, just like being on holiday. But, after that I totally burned out on the whole scene and the losers who hang around that part of town. I also discovered that the rest of Chiang Mai has so much more to offer, and much nicer people who don't see every passing farang as a trick or meal ticket.

You may well find your perceptions of this area change very rapidly once you start living there, especially if you already have a Thai wife. These days I pretty much have to be dragged screaming to go anywhere near the Night Bazaar and Loi Kroh area.

He's right you know.

Was pretty much burnt out after a week on my own last week - wise words from the wounded there. More points to ponder ... where would be a good mix in your opinion - of central - whatever that is in CM - good and plentiful farang and affordability.Hmm Loy Kroh Road where dreams go to die and single mums struggle to survive. Very few smiles behind the truth and lots of tears.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You can buy an older condo by the train station for 200k

Or a newly refurbished condo at the crossroads of the 118/121 for 150k

Why are you wanting to spend so much money?

Those buildings are *really* nasty, with tiny tiny rooms. If you're a poor student at some Techno college nearby then maybe, but I can't imagine anyone else wanting to live there.

[Paagai]

... where would be a good mix in your opinion - of central - whatever that is in CM - good and plentiful farang and affordability.

I've lived happily in Chang Puek area for many years, it has everything I want. It's largely real Thailand, but with just enough Farang friends and neighbours to maintain a balance with some sanity More importantly, it's only five minutes ride to Huay Kaew Road, Kad Suan Kaew and the whole Nimmanheminda area. Plenty of Farang friendly stuff there that isn't touristy.

In more general terms, if you want to be in the city I'd say any of the neighborhoods off Huay Kaew Road are good location wise. Chang Puek and Jed Yot to the North are cheaper than Sirimanklarjarn and Nimmanheminda.