Talks On Plans For Military Teachers: Thai South

[webfact]

Talks on plans for military teachers

Panya Thiosangwan,

Olan Lertrudtanadumrongkul,

Tanatpong Kongsai

The Nation

Sukampol meets with educators in region; Senate urges new policies

NARATHIWAT: -- Defence Minister Air Chief Marshal Sukampol Suwan-nathat visited Narathiwat yesterday to talk to the Federation of Teachers in the three southernmost provinces about a plan to have soldiers and police to temporarily teach students instead of teachers.

Sukampol said that, because it was hard to find teachers willing to teach in the restive region, they could use soldiers and border patrol police who have teaching diplomas or used to be teachers, to teach on a temporary basis. He said he had heard the federation had agreed with the idea and the Army had discussed the plan with Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and was working on selecting such teachers.

"If the talk today with the federation progresses, I'll speak to Education Minister Pongthep Thepkanjana on how to implement this idea. We will have to discuss details, but it will be done as soon as possible," he said.

Sukampol visited Narathiwat to meet security officials in the area.

Army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha, who proposed the idea at a recent meeting of the Committee on the Mobilisation of Southern Border Provinces Policy and Strategies, said it would depend on discussions and decisions by the government, the Internal Security Operations Com-mand (ISOC) and the Education Ministry. He said the Army had surveyed military officials' qualifications and registered them years ago, so if the government or supervisors agreed with the idea, they were ready to work. Initially, military officers at nearby bases could serve as teachers.

Prayuth said he had also ordered security agencies in the southern border provinces to tighten security, to be more vigilant and add more checkpoints to ensure safety during the New Year.

The general visited Sirindhorn Camp in Pattani's Yarang district yesterday to review developments in the far South and follow up on measures implemented to address the problems.

As for the teacher protection plan, which has been reviewed three or four times already, he said they would work with related agencies to help troops provide 24-hour security to teachers at home, on the way to school and at schools. He said that at points deemed dangerous teachers could ride in armoured trucks with soldiers.

General Prayuth also offered moral support to officers for the New Year and thanked them for working tirelessly in the region. He also urged the public to be patient and cooperate fully with the authorities, always have ID cards with them and to be more careful when travelling.

He believed the situation would improve if all sectors cooperated to solve the problems.

In related news, the Senate met yesterday to discuss unrest in the South, the targeting of teachers and the fact some families of slain teachers have yet to receive compensation. Senators urged the government to adjust policies and "think outside the box" or else the insurgents would get the upper hand. Senator Surasak Sri-arun called for speedy investigations to arrest the killers of teachers and for the slain teachers' children to be given work at various ministries.

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said he would travel to Malaysia either on January 15-17 or January 21-23 to discuss unrest in the South with authorities in Kuala Lumpur.

He will have a video conference with police and four governors from the far South on December 27 because the governors had to take care of the region with kamnan and village headmen.

-- The Nation 2012-12-26

[nokbird]

military officers at nearby bases could serve as teachers.

OK Kiddies, today we learn to Kill.....

[Scott]

What is missing is numbers. How many teachers are leaving or being replaced? Do they have enough qualified military/police to replace the teachers? Will these new teachers then move to the area where the school is, or will they return to their military/police compound each night? I am sure some of these schools are not conveniently located near the facilities.

[OzMick]

military officers at nearby bases could serve as teachers.

OK Kiddies, today we learn to Kill.....

A skill whose usefulness far exceeds belief in an ancient myth.

[Squigy]

The kids in the South will again be dumb-ed down even further.. to the point where they might as well not go to school at all. "terrorists 1 Military 0"

[noitom]

"have soldiers and police to temporarily teach students instead of teachers.

if any preposterous scheme would disenfranchise the muslim population in the south of Thailand and cause further resentment, it is this ludicrous idea. Thailand's handling of this southern revolution is totally inept and preposterous.

[chainarong]

Ok that should fix the problem. as the good man said this government is in denial err disarray

[Songhua]

How much will it cost to build gun racks next to the blackboards?

[webfact]

Men in uniform to teach southern students

By Digital Media

NARATHIWAT, Dec 26 – Thai army soldiers and border patrol police will be assigned to teach in state-run schools in violence-plagued provinces in Thailand’s far South, according to the Thai defence minister.

Air Chief Marshal Sukumpol Suwanatat, who stayed overnight in Narathiwat Tuesday during his two-day inspection trip to the South, said instruction by military and police personnel will be a temporary measure given a shortage of Thai Buddhist teachers.

A series of attacks, many fatal, against Thai Buddhist teachers in the three southernmost provinces of Narathiwat, Yala and Pattani in the past few months has lowered the morale of educators, many of whom have sought Education Ministry permission to transfer from the troubled region.

He said the assignment of teaching job to soldiers, rangers and border patrol police was agreed to by the Federation of Teachers in Three Southern Border Provinces.

Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha has consulted the prime minister and given assurances of the military’s readiness to assume teaching responsibilities if the measure is approved by the government and the Education Ministry, the defence minister said.

Military personnel whose education background is applicable to education will be selected, he said. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-12-26

[JAG]

The kids in the South will again be dumb-ed down even further.. to the point where they might as well not go to school at all. "terrorists 1 Military 0"

The aim of the terrorists campaign of murder against the teachers is to force the schools to close. They can then claim that the government is failing to make provision for the muslim population - but look, our madrsassas (funded from abroad) are filling the gap.

Having the military run the schools is far from perfect, but it is better than allowing the schools to close, and is far simpler (and less manpower intensive) than providing 24hr security for teachers and schools. If it forces the terrorists to turn to threatening/killing the locals for going to or sending their children to school it will lose them support.

It is easy to sneer at the plan, but what real alternative is there if the state education system is to survive?

It may well need reform, but before it can be reformed it has to survive. The terrorists don't want it reformed!

Edited December 26, 2012 by JAG

[Halion]

On reading this article it is simply not possible to come to any other conclusion than that the Authorities are hapless and have lost all vestige of control. Surely putting military ranks as substitute teachers is tantamount to an admission that there is a most serious confrontation prevailing in the South... akin to Civil War..... which will be vehenently denied as it may upstet their precious perceptions on tourism. Marshal law is the only viable answer as they have sat on their fat ass's and let this fester far to long .

This cancer is well past mediation and requires a surgical response.

I also note that our brave Chalerm will be "video conferencing" rather than puting himself in harms way. or perhaps he feelsthat it is not that important as he himself proclaimed that terrosim is not a feature in Thailand. However, whatever he claims it to be it is bad enough to scare the shit out of him.

General Prayuth also offered moral support to officers for the New Year and thanked them for working tirelessly in the region. He also urged the public to be patient and cooperate fully with the authorities, always have ID cards with them and to be more careful when travelling.

What utter nonesense bordering rank stupidity. If this so called General has nothing better to say , then he should simply shut up. The public have been patient for two decades and are being shot or bombed on a daily basis. What an insensitive and ignorant idiot.

[OzMick]

A point seems to be missed. Teachers in the South are being maimed and killed, and while those teachers living in the area and owning homes continue to teach it is difficult to persuade others to move to the area and put themselves at risk.

Military educators OTOH, and I am sure they include some excellent teachers, can be ordered to relocate with no right of refusal. this is one of the realities of military life. They will normally also have some form of basic weapons training making them a more formidable target than you average school teacher.

[Scott]

An off-topic post and reply have been deleted.

Please stay on topic.

[manfrommanteo]

Here is an idea. My wife, who is Thai, says that the general population in the areas with all this "trouble", have historically gotten along. Not talking about the radicals, but the general population. She says the people of different religions have never had, nor currently have, trouble with each other. They have lived peacefully among their neighbors for ages.

She also proposes that all this trouble is stirred up by Thaksin. It seems to fit his M.O. He started it, and it continues. It's to his benefit to have division and strife in Thailand so he can "ride to the rescue." Remember, the South is a Democrat stronghold. Cause problems down there, get rid of the oppositions strength in numbers.

Get Thaksin and his folks out of the way, get rid of a majority of the problems in Thailand, including the South.

What do you think?

Edited December 26, 2012 by manfrommanteo

[DoctorG]

Would it really be that much more difficult to ambush a military/police teacher than a regular teacher?

As was alluded to earlier, how many military or police have a teaching diploma? 3? 4?

[OzMick]

Would it really be that much more difficult to ambush a military/police teacher than a regular teacher?

As was alluded to earlier, how many military or police have a teaching diploma? 3? 4?

1/ yes

2/ The Thai military academy (which incorporates the polytechnic) and the prepatory academy are not small institutions, nor are the police equivalents. I would also think that the military would have schools for conscripts with basic literacy deficiencies. Your estimate is ridiculous.

[edwinchester]

They are talking about the need for school teachers in the deep south to use armoured vehicles to get to work.

One wonders where the army are going to get these from considering their own troops are patrolling on Honda Waves and ageing pickups.

[DoctorG]

Would it really be that much more difficult to ambush a military/police teacher than a regular teacher?

As was alluded to earlier, how many military or police have a teaching diploma? 3? 4?

1/ yes

2/ The Thai military academy (which incorporates the polytechnic) and the prepatory academy are not small institutions, nor are the police equivalents. I would also think that the military would have schools for conscripts with basic literacy deficiencies. Your estimate is ridiculous.

1. It is no more difficult to ambush a lone soldier than a lone teacher going home, or busy in the classroom. You failed to explain why it would be OzMick.

2. Perhaps I should have expanded more on this point.

- what I really meant with my "ridiculous estimate" was how many can be released from their current employment and be (and agree to) be deployed to the South as Primary school teachers? Teaching of little children is vastly different from teaching adults.

[OzMick]

Would it really be that much more difficult to ambush a military/police teacher than a regular teacher?

As was alluded to earlier, how many military or police have a teaching diploma? 3? 4?

1/ yes

2/ The Thai military academy (which incorporates the polytechnic) and the prepatory academy are not small institutions, nor are the police equivalents. I would also think that the military would have schools for conscripts with basic literacy deficiencies. Your estimate is ridiculous.

1. It is no more difficult to ambush a lone soldier than a lone teacher going home, or busy in the classroom. You failed to explain why it would be OzMick.

2. Perhaps I should have expanded more on this point.

- what I really meant with my "ridiculous estimate" was how many can be released from their current employment and be (and agree to) be deployed to the South as Primary school teachers? Teaching of little children is vastly different from teaching adults.

Even a military teacher would be trained in the use of a basic combat weapon, and could easily be issued with one. A bit of refresher training, and you have a teacher who drops to the ground and fires 3 round bursts when attacked..

Military officers don't "agree to", they follow orders given according to the priorities of the time. If some general says we require teachers, and you have teaching qualifications, you're on your bike. They may not be the best, but they are available.

[nokbird]

What terrorism in the south....... apparently according to the 2IC

[Scott]

Would it really be that much more difficult to ambush a military/police teacher than a regular teacher?

As was alluded to earlier, how many military or police have a teaching diploma? 3? 4?

1/ yes

2/ The Thai military academy (which incorporates the polytechnic) and the prepatory academy are not small institutions, nor are the police equivalents. I would also think that the military would have schools for conscripts with basic literacy deficiencies. Your estimate is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone is questioning the qualifications of those working at the military or police academy, but I am wondering what makes you think they will be sent to the south to teach. The academies are not located in the south. If they relocate these people, then who will become the teachers at the academies?

There is a big problem with all the speculation and that is none of us know the number of schools or teachers that are needed.

[slapout]

It would appear that the individual tasked with sorting out the problems Chalerm, seems to be finding ways to stay out of the danger zone. He and the PM seem to have similar management styles, via text messages, skype.

[Scott]

Please stay on-topic. A post has been deleted.

[jerrysteve]

I can just picture a basic math lesson without any electronic calculators...

Now class, what is 1+1? 4 students shout out the answer: 1+1 is sip et...11

The military teacher walks over and hands out 4 lolly pops and says, "good job"!

[Scott]

The problem is that many of the students don't speak Thai, so I don't think they will be saying 'sip et'.

Over the years, I have interviewed a number of students from the southern provinces that were trying to get into schools in Bangkok. All of them said the reason they were in Bangkok was because of the danger in the South. My observation is purely anecdotal, but the ones I interviewed had one thing in common--they all spoke English quite well--significantly better than the average student in Bangkok.

[OzMick]

Would it really be that much more difficult to ambush a military/police teacher than a regular teacher?

As was alluded to earlier, how many military or police have a teaching diploma? 3? 4?

1/ yes

2/ The Thai military academy (which incorporates the polytechnic) and the prepatory academy are not small institutions, nor are the police equivalents. I would also think that the military would have schools for conscripts with basic literacy deficiencies. Your estimate is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone is questioning the qualifications of those working at the military or police academy, but I am wondering what makes you think they will be sent to the south to teach. The academies are not located in the south. If they relocate these people, then who will become the teachers at the academies?

There is a big problem with all the speculation and that is none of us know the number of schools or teachers that are needed.

I gather that you are unfamiliar with military life. An order is given in the ranking stratosphere,and orders arrive - you will report to X at time Y. Availability will determine whether you use military or public transport. No concern is shown for family arrangements, at least until length of posting is determined. Any inconvenience is deemed a "personal problem" ie work it out yourself.

At your original post, lack of manpower is somebody else's problem, normally overcome in the short term, by working extra hours with no extra pay.

The general public is generally unaware of the inherent difficulties of military life, or think they are all psychos with aspirations to kill so who cares, or a combination of the two.

[geriatrickid]

Here is an idea. My wife, who is Thai, says that the general population in the areas with all this "trouble", have historically gotten along. Not talking about the radicals, but the general population. She says the people of different religions have never had, nor currently have, trouble with each other. They have lived peacefully among their neighbors for ages.

She also proposes that all this trouble is stirred up by Thaksin. It seems to fit his M.O. He started it, and it continues. It's to his benefit to have division and strife in Thailand so he can "ride to the rescue." Remember, the South is a Democrat stronghold. Cause problems down there, get rid of the oppositions strength in numbers.

Get Thaksin and his folks out of the way, get rid of a majority of the problems in Thailand, including the South.

What do you think?

Instead of attributing this to your wife, why not just say this is how you feel? It would be more transparent.

The problems in the south predate Thaksin by several decades and were arguably much worse in that period. Yes, the south is a Democrat stronghold, but we did not see much success from the Democrats when they were in power did we? I am not even referring to the Abhisit period, but to the period before Thaksin was even a political force. Civilian governments take a backseat to the army when it comes to the administration of the southern zone. The military has been the defacto government in the region for many years and is the entity that has decided on the application of security measures.

The argument that the Thais have gotten along is a myth. It is not the case. People do not murder their neighbours because they get along and the government "causes" this violence. There is a visceral tribal hatred that stems from the presence of "foreigners" that have encroached on the locals' land and that have brought their infidel ways. The fact of the matter is that Thailand annexed an area that was never part of Thailand and that had neither a shared culture, nor religion. It is politically incorrect to point out that Islam and Buddhism are incompatible. However, the presence of Temples with what are perceived as graven images and idols is an affront to Islam and is strongly condemned. The southern insurgents do not accept the government of Thailand nor do they share the reverence for the institutions that the Thais do. It is easy to blame the muslims for the problems, but they have some legitimate grievances. However, there is also a growing sentiment that the presence of infidels must be removed. You seem to forget that foreign groups from Pakistan and the Gulf have funded the madras extensions. These foreign groups have funded Imans and other "outreach" activities in the region that most certainly have not emphasized peace.

Make no mistake that the southern insurgency provides lucrative profit taking opportunities for some people. Protection rackets, bribery, extortion, skimming of government assets etc. The insurgency also destabilizes Thailand such that it benefits Thailand's neighbours whether they are Malaysia, or China or Cambodia. When Thailand is fixated on the south it cannot focus on other problem areas because the south is sucking vital resources from Thailand.

This problem has nothing to do with Thaksin and your attempt to blame Thaksin neither reflects the long standing history nor the realpolitik of the conflict.

Edited December 27, 2012 by geriatrickid

[Scott]

Of course I realize that the military simply gives orders and service personnel must obey. The difference is that nearly all military are prepared for military duty. Not all are prepared for teaching duty. The logistics are different. There is a big age-range and a lot of subjects that need to be covered.

[Publicus]

_{Not mentioned, or pointed out, is that if commissioned officers who are graduates of the military academy are going to be in the schools as subsitute teachers, the troops and the senior commanders deployed throughout the troubled provinces are going to be without their core officer corps. With the officer corps in the classrooms, the Thai military structure in the South is going to consist of privates and corporals; colonels and generals, with nothing in between (lieutenants, captains, majors, lieutenant-colonels). In other words, this plan would eviscerate the army down there of their platoon officers, their company level officers, their batallion staff officers, their regimental commanders and the like. Non commissioned officers, i.e., sergeants, are often considered the backbone of any military so they can step up to take a leadership role, but only up the chain of command to a certain point.}

_{I wouldn't want to be in a rifle company down there and suddenly find out the new acting platoon leader is some 26 year old Prathom 6 graduate buck sergeant from Isaan, and that the new acting company commander is a 28 year old staff sergeant who is a former buffalo farmer from Buri Ram. This plan has some merit, but it also unmistakably places the lives of soldiers in greater danger and imposes a huge burden on the sergeants, who suddenly find themsleves in command of many more men and units of soldiers than they were educated or trained to lead and command in armed conflict.}

_{There are serious knock-on consequences to this scheme that I haven't heard being addressed, or considered.}

Edited December 28, 2012 by Scott

[sunshine51]

A point seems to be missed. Teachers in the South are being maimed and killed, and while those teachers living in the area and owning homes continue to teach it is difficult to persuade others to move to the area and put themselves at risk.

Military educators OTOH, and I am sure they include some excellent teachers, can be ordered to relocate with no right of refusal. this is one of the realities of military life. They will normally also have some form of basic weapons training making them a more formidable target than you average school teacher.

Plus since military teachers already have a monthly salary, albeit not that much....no need to offer a huge

monetary bribe to "head South" as in the case of civilian teachers. OK maybe they'll get hazardous duty

pay...who knows...