Canon Full Frame Or Crop

[drum]

will i gain anything in my photo's if i go full frame ie,5d now use 7d ,

what is the real difference between the two,

[Chao Lao Beach]

I believe that the Cannon Cropped Cameras ( Not Full Frame) are 1.6, or the Green Border in the example below.

So in simple terms, when you are looking at a landscape, this is what you can see !

There is also a magnifying factor for the crop ones, other people can explain it better than me, start here where I took that example

from. The D6 is the latest entry level full frame from Canon.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach

[drum]

why not just step back to open the frame,same result ? ,

[Bill3173]

Hi Drum

First of all I am still learning and have a lot to learn but you may find the following useful. I have added below an interesting link concerning “Full Frame v Cropped”, also another about the future of cropped DSLR’s. The site is heavily weighted towards Nikon but the principles are the same.

One thing to consider is if/when someone upgrades to FF from cropped, are their lens(es). Lenses designed for Full Frame (for Nikon anyway) will usually work well on cropped cameras as they only use the centre on the lens. Having said that lenses designed for cropped cameras will work poorly (if at all) on full frame cameras.

I have a cropped Nikon DSLR, but if I had a researched more before I bought the camera I would have gone for the Full Frame. I like low light photography and since posting on the nature thread discovered I like birding. The best time for birding in early morning and late afternoon, which are also poor lighting conditions This means higher ISO which results in noise. I try to keep the ISO at or below 400, 800 is ok if you don’t crop, anything above this I bin. Full frame cameras handle higher ISO much better. Any lens I buy in the future will be designed for full frame as I intend to upgrade if/when I outgrow the cropped DSLR. So really you have to ask yourself first “what you want the camera for”.

Regards Bill.

http://photographyli...vs-fx#more-9335

http://photographyli...ture#more-35471

[drum]

,i just like of the handle quick shots street photo's, i think with a cropped camera i can get that extra focus,then i think am i missing a trick here by not having full frame,

[astral]

With crop the focal length of the lenses will be shorter

making it more difficult for blur out the background.

On the other hand the camera will be more compact

and easier to handle.

If you get the chance just look at the different models, side by side

and you will see what I mean to see what I mean.

[FracturedRabbit]

Maybe it's just words, but I would say that with crop the focal length of the lenses will effectively be longer. e.g. a 50mm lens on a half crop sensor will give the same view as a 100mm lens on a 135 "full frame" sensor; so a crop camera makes lenses appear to be longer than their actual focal length. The depth of field generated by a lens is identical whatever sensor it sits in front of; but because you get the depth of field of a 50mm lens and a field of view of a 100mm lens if you use it on a half frame sensor; you will not have such a narrow depth of field as a full frame camera with a 100mm lens. So if I have a 50mm lens on a half crop sensor and a 100mm lens on a full frame sensor and take the same shot from the same position with both; then both will capture the same view; but the full frame camera will have a narrower depth of field because a 100mm lens has a narrower depth of field than a 50mm lens, assuming both are at the same aperture.

Expect that has done nothing but complicate things!

I shoot with a half frame crop sensored camera and have never found limiting the depth of field to be an issue; more often than not I am trying to gain more rather than less. Still, if I want to blur out the background it is not a problem to do so:

P1150019 by pattayadays.com, on Flickr

If the OP is wanting to do street shots, then I would suggest a smaller, discrete camera and lens is going to do a better job than a full frame monster. Once you start waving around a full frame camera and associated big lens; people notice and either object or prepare to be photographed; either way spontaneity is lost. With a small camera you can shoot on the street and remain mainly undectected.

P1070818 by pattayadays.com, on Flickr

Just my satang's worth.

[samuijimmy]

FR .... quote "Expect that has done nothing but complicate things!"

It does not take much.... Been an interesting read though! Thank you !

[manarak]

The main drawback of a full frame camera is its size.

I feel my 550D is much easier to lug around.

Image quality wise, there is not much difference between full frame and crop sensor.

But there is a difference in lens quality.

The travel lenses made for crop sensors don't deliver really good picture quality, and the crop sensor multiplies lens imperfections by the crop factor...

This combined to the fact that there are no high-quality travel lenses for crop sensors condemns the crop sensor camera owner to use mediocre lenses if he's not willing to swap lenses.

Canon L lenses offer 24-135 and 28-300 lenses, but their wideangle becomes 40mm and 48mm equivalent, which isn't usable as a travel lens - one needs less than 20mm on a crop sensor.

That's one of the big catch 22's from my point of view.

If I had to redo my choice of a DSLR, I'd go with a Nikon D7000 instead of my 550D, but I'd think really hard about getting a mirrorless camera with a big sensor instead.

[FracturedRabbit]

"no high-quality travel lenses for crop sensors" - This maybe true in the world of Canon; but in the world of micro four thirds there are lenses that are every bit as good as Canon L series lenses; and a whole lot smaller and cheaper.

How about the 10-22 EFS lens for Canon crop cameras? Nice images and plenty wide.

[manarak]

"no high-quality travel lenses for crop sensors" - This maybe true in the world of Canon; but in the world of micro four thirds there are lenses that are every bit as good as Canon L series lenses; and a whole lot smaller and cheaper.

How about the 10-22 EFS lens for Canon crop cameras? Nice images and plenty wide.

The 10-22 is a fine lens, but a travel lens is a superzoom lens whose equivalent focal length begins at approx. 24 mm or below and ends at approx. 200mm or beyond.

Opinions might differ about the above definition, but AFAIK there are no professional grade lenses covering zoom ranges from below 20mm to even just above 50mm, I guess there is a major lens design challenge that hasn't been solved yet for high quality image.

Many people walk around with a smaller zoom lens which doesn't cover telephoto, such as the great 16-35mm

f/2.8L II USM

And about micro four thirds:

yes, these cameras and lenses are much smaller than even crop sensor DSLRs, but they fail at the pocket test: does the camera fit into my pocket?

The only way they fit is when a pancake prime lens is equipped, but this seriously limits the camara's use. My 550D is also surprisingly small and light when I put the Canon 50mm prime on...

At the end of the day, the advantage in size of the micro four thirds gear fails at my pocket: doesn't fit in there.

Edited January 2, 2013 by manarak

[drum]

The main drawback of a full frame camera is its size.

I feel my 550D is much easier to lug around.

Image quality wise, there is not much difference between full frame and crop sensor.

But there is a difference in lens quality.

The travel lenses made for crop sensors don't deliver really good picture quality, and the crop sensor multiplies lens imperfections by the crop factor...

This combined to the fact that there are no high-quality travel lenses for crop sensors condemns the crop sensor camera owner to use mediocre lenses if he's not willing to swap lenses.

Canon L lenses offer 24-135 and 28-300 lenses, but their wideangle becomes 40mm and 48mm equivalent, which isn't usable as a travel lens - one needs less than 20mm on a crop sensor.

That's one of the big catch 22's from my point of view.

If I had to redo my choice of a DSLR, I'd go with a Nikon D7000 instead of my 550D, but I'd think really hard about getting a mirrorless camera with a big sensor instead.

i use a 450d with kit lens 18-55 light easy to use,,and 7d with 85mm lens ,the 7d is much better for quick focus shots,if i go wide angle say 20mm,surely range would be lost,

[FracturedRabbit]

I know nothing about lens design, but it appears that once you go beyond about 4x zoom then it is difficult to design a lens that provides excellent optical performance across the entire zoom range.

Personally I never put my camera in my pocket. Living in Thailand I only wear jeans or shorts and never a jacket, so it would have to be a very small camera! Instead I have a little bag which I carry everywhere which holds a camera, three prime lenses and a zoom which cover almost anything I am likely to want to shoot and gives me images that delight me at a substantial size and weight saving over a DSLR. But that's just me.

[cdnvic]

Unless you do a lot of large enlargements you probably won't see much of difference. Full frame prints enlarge better because the ratio between the original and the print isn't as high. Look at your lenses and invest in them first if you want to improve picture quality. Spend the extra few dollars and get EF lenses that will work on the full frame cameras if/when you decide to upgrade.

[ETatBKK]

go back to OP, now use Canon 7D and want to know the difference on Full Frame, say Canon 5D.

if your purpose is for shooting snap shots on street ( or in public ), 7D has much more features for handy quick shots, than even the new 5D mark III. another minor advantage 7D is slightly smaller. be remind that 5D and 6D already the smallest Full Frame in Canon range, others 1D stuffs are monster for field applications on street.

what lenses you have with your 7D ? if you have the lenses for 'cropped' sensor, they are not quality enough for the Full Frame; then you may need to buy new lenses for the Full Frame too.

last but not the least, picture quality from the sensor, if you don't always blow up to A3 print size, nor you don't crop into fine details, you won't find big difference in turn of everyday quality.

yeah, put money on lenses are more effective.

[Barack]

As a Nikon shooter I really like the Canon full frame cameras, 6D and Mark III. With the advent and popularity of 4/3 cameras I have reservations about the future of cropped DSLR's. When was the last quality Nikon (DX) or Canon EF-S lens (not including the kit lenses)? 3rd party manufactures may fill the void. Investing in quality glass is always the wisest option but all those nice EF-S lenses are not compatible with Canon full frame cameras so I would buy ff lenses only and upgrade to a Canon ff camera. If the OP is a landscape shooter he will see a quantum leap in image quality and low light performance in addition to the benefits of pp cropping from the 7D to the 5D Mark III or new 6D.

[cdnvic]

what lenses you have with your 7D ? if you have the lenses for 'cropped' sensor, they are not quality enough for the Full Frame

Those that do fit won't even fill the sensor. You wind up with a severely vignetted image.

[manarak]

Unless you do a lot of large enlargements you probably won't see much of difference. Full frame prints enlarge better because the ratio between the original and the print isn't as high. Look at your lenses and invest in them first if you want to improve picture quality. Spend the extra few dollars and get EF lenses that will work on the full frame cameras if/when you decide to upgrade.

I hear many pros doing recommendations based on paper prints as being the purpose and end use for pictures.

That premise is one of the past and while prints are still made, another usage has widely replaced prints: today photos are mostly viewed on screens: multimedia TV screens, computer screens and increasingly tablets with breathtaking resolution.

This means that photo imperfections do show more and more pressure is put onto DSLRs to deliver high quality pictures.

Getting good lenses is definitely the way to go for anyone who wants to go beyond point&shoot picture quality even on crop-sensor DSLRs.

One advantage of crop sensors is that by adding one good lens to the range, picture quality improves dramatically without breaking the bank too much.

If one decides to go full frame and then buys L lenses to cover the full range, we are easily looking at 6000 to 8000 USD just in lenses. And better hire someone to carry them around ;-)

[ETatBKK]

what lenses you have with your 7D ? if you have the lenses for 'cropped' sensor, they are not quality enough for the Full Frame

Those that do fit won't even fill the sensor. You wind up with a severely vignetted image.

correct, the kit lenses for the cropped sensor has a significant smaller image circle, that it won't even fill up the entire full frame sensor. reversely, put a full frame lens on cropped sensor has no problem; the image circle covers the cropped sensor.

if OP has kit lenses for cropped sensor, upgrade to full frame means buying camera body + buying new camera lenses.

[Tywais]

Digital Camera Sensor Sizes & crop factors

[drum]

go back to OP, now use Canon 7D and want to know the difference on Full Frame, say Canon 5D.

if your purpose is for shooting snap shots on street ( or in public ), 7D has much more features for handy quick shots, than even the new 5D mark III. another minor advantage 7D is slightly smaller. be remind that 5D and 6D already the smallest Full Frame in Canon range, others 1D stuffs are monster for field applications on street.

what lenses you have with your 7D ? if you have the lenses for 'cropped' sensor, they are not quality enough for the Full Frame; then you may need to buy new lenses for the Full Frame too.

last but not the least, picture quality from the sensor, if you don't always blow up to A3 print size, nor you don't crop into fine details, you won't find big difference in turn of everyday quality.

yeah, put money on lenses are more effective.

i use a 85mm on the 7d, i think its mid range in terms of cost and quality, i never print photo's just view on screen,

i guess that buying a top end lens would go a long way in quality of photo's. as you say if i would not notice a big difference in everyday shots,

but taking in replys about lens quality would be the way forward for now

[Barack]

what lenses you have with your 7D ? if you have the lenses for 'cropped' sensor, they are not quality enough for the Full Frame

Those that do fit won't even fill the sensor. You wind up with a severely vignetted image.

correct, the kit lenses for the cropped sensor has a significant smaller image circle, that it won't even fill up the entire full frame sensor. reversely, put a full frame lens on cropped sensor has no problem; the image circle covers the cropped sensor.

if OP has kit lenses for cropped sensor, upgrade to full frame means buying camera body + buying new camera lenses.

... and the EF-s lenses will not physically mount on a full frame camera.

[ETatBKK]

go back to OP, now use Canon 7D and want to know the difference on Full Frame, say Canon 5D.

if your purpose is for shooting snap shots on street ( or in public ), 7D has much more features for handy quick shots, than even the new 5D mark III. another minor advantage 7D is slightly smaller. be remind that 5D and 6D already the smallest Full Frame in Canon range, others 1D stuffs are monster for field applications on street.

what lenses you have with your 7D ? if you have the lenses for 'cropped' sensor, they are not quality enough for the Full Frame; then you may need to buy new lenses for the Full Frame too.

last but not the least, picture quality from the sensor, if you don't always blow up to A3 print size, nor you don't crop into fine details, you won't find big difference in turn of everyday quality.

yeah, put money on lenses are more effective.

i use a 85mm on the 7d, i think its mid range in terms of cost and quality, i never print photo's just view on screen,

i guess that buying a top end lens would go a long way in quality of photo's. as you say if i would not notice a big difference in everyday shots,

but taking in replys about lens quality would be the way forward for now

there are two Canon 85mm lenses : I) EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM, and ii) EF 85mm f/1.8 USM. the first one has no problem on full frame, a very nice lens but price as gold. the second one can fit into full frame yet in maximum aperture there may be vignetting problem ( dark corners ), as highlighted by cdnvic. you still can use this EF 85mm f/1.8 USM in higher aperture ( f/2.8 ? ). due to the FOVCF, the 85mm on 7D is a short telephoto, while it is on a full frame it is a 85mm portrait lens.

correct, the kit lenses for the cropped sensor has a significant smaller image circle, that it won't even fill up the entire full frame sensor. reversely, put a full frame lens on cropped sensor has no problem; the image circle covers the cropped sensor.

if OP has kit lenses for cropped sensor, upgrade to full frame means buying camera body + buying new camera lenses.

... and the EF-s lenses will not physically mount on a full frame camera.

nice to remind this as well, no experience on EF-S lens. are they in different mount ?

[cdnvic]

An EF-S lens sits closer to the sensor internally, so there is not enough physical clearance for most EF-S lenses in a full frame camera. I hear stories of a few fitting and of adapters, but the bottom line is that its the wrong lens type for the camera.

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