Under The Table Repairs At A Honda Dealership.

[Shipwreck]

Just wondering if this is common, or has happened to anyone else? The story:

Last week I was up north visiting the relatives when the check engine light came on. I drove my Jazz to the local Honda dealer (an official dealership) and asked them to check what was wrong. An hour later they came back to say that my oxygen sensor wasn't working and it needed to be replaced. It would cost 7,741B. I said go ahead.

2 hours later my wife and newborn and I are sitting there wondering what is taking so long, when the technician comes in and says that he has replaced the part but...good news! He has taken it upon himself to install a non-Honda replacement and it will only cost us 5000B, but we won't be paying in the office. He is going to take us for spin around the block and we are going to hand him the cash in the car.

Naturally, this sounds super sketchy. He's obviously done the work for way cheaper than Honda was going to charge me and is trying to pocket the cash.

I was a bit pissed that he didn't ASK first if it was ok that he did this. In fact, if he had asked I probably would have said no. At this point though, 3 hours into waiting I didn't want to wait anymore. Newborn was crying and I wasn't going to wait another 2 hours while he took out this part and put in the real one - while his manager fired him (unless he was in on it) and all the other mechanics decided to put nails in my tires or something for destroying their cash cow.

He gave us his business card and invited us back for more shady under the table repairs if we wanted. I've driven more than 1000km in the car since. Part is working fine and car runs strong.

He swore up and down that the part has a 1 year warranty - which I don't believe since we don't have a completed work receipt from Honda, just an estimation paper. I figure my warranty on this part is the fact that I could call Honda HQ and get him fired any day of the week. He was all smiles like he does this all the time - anyone else experience this? Is this normal?

[canuckamuck]

Corrupt business practices are so endemic that he didn't even ask first if you wanted to go along with it.

I hope you don't have any further issues which they may now attribute to your non Honda part. Which in my estimation cannot be possibly covered under warranty. In that case you might be in for under the table round two.

I sympathize with you having to make a decision under the pressure of a newborns cries. That is powerful force to contend with.

[Shipwreck]

He probably didn't ask me because he knew it wouldn't be worth my time to say no.

He still took a big chance though, it only takes one person to cause a fuss and have hell rain down from HQ.

[thaicbr]

He probably didn't ask me because he knew it wouldn't be worth my time to say no.

He still took a big chance though, it only takes one person to cause a fuss and have hell rain down from HQ.

And that's what you should have done. You go to main dealers to get away from this dodgy shit.

sent from my Q6

[frankold]

Your sure he actually changed the part and not just a 5 baht fuse that had blown?

Why would Honda have non Honda replacement oxygen sensors just laying around?

Edited January 2, 2013 by frankold

[arthurwait]

Your sure he actually changed the part and not just a 5 baht fuse that had blown?

Why would Honda have non Honda replacement oxygen sensors just laying around?

This.

Did you check the part looked new and ask for the old one back or watch him change it ?

[bobo42]

Is it just me, or does that sound ridiculously expensive for an oxygen sensor? The last time I replaced one in my car in the states, it was like $80USD for the part. Doesn't 7k+ baht sound like a bit much? Installation is just a screw-out and screw-in with a one electrical attachment, so why the hefty price? Or is this one of those "magic" Honda parts that they like to use?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Is it just me, or does that sound ridiculously expensive for an oxygen sensor? The last time I replaced one in my car in the states, it was like $80USD for the part. Doesn't 7k+ baht sound like a bit much? Installation is just a screw-out and screw-in with a one electrical attachment, so why the hefty price? Or is this one of those "magic" Honda parts that they like to use?

I think the guy got hosed...I'm going with the 5 baht fuse theory of the case

[mattk1]

I'm a mechanic and I reckon he probably just cleaned the exterior of the original O2 sensor and cleared the code with the scan tool.

The three hour waiting time may well of been a ploy to make it seem worth what you paid him.

It would be interesting to take a look at the alleged new sensor and see if the part number is original equipment Honda.

[Banzai99]

He just took the chance that the vast majority of Farangs are totally corruptable when it suits them, he was right as well.

[thaicbr]

He just took the chance that the vast majority of Farangs are totally corruptable when it suits them, he was right as well.

I think you meant 'I am totally corruptable'

Because for sure if that had happened to me or to people that I know we would have blown our tops. And complained.

Stop stereotyping people into your own image.

sent from my Q6

Edited January 3, 2013 by thaicbr

[Pomthai]

I'd be taking a look to see if the check engine light still has a bulb in it. Does it still come on prior to starting?

[Shipwreck]

Your sure he actually changed the part and not just a 5 baht fuse that had blown?

Why would Honda have non Honda replacement oxygen sensors just laying around?

This.

Did you check the part looked new and ask for the old one back or watch him change it ?

He gave me back the original oxygen sensor - I also neglected to mention that he told us that he went out to get one from somewhere else. It didn't come from the Honda dealer.

How do I know he did the work? I don't, but the car was running a bit rough before it was replaced and now runs smooth. - Apparently if your O2 sensor doesn't work the car just assumes you need max gasoline and uses too much causing a rough ride.

Could he have gone to a junkyard and gotten one from a wrecked Jazz? Absolutely.

[Shipwreck]

Your sure he actually changed the part and not just a 5 baht fuse that had blown?

Why would Honda have non Honda replacement oxygen sensors just laying around?

This.

Did you check the part looked new and ask for the old one back or watch him change it ?

I didn't even know he was doing this until it was already done. Had he offered in the beginning I would have said no. I did get the old one back, but an O2 sensor is completely unfamiliar to me as i know almost nothing about in the inner workings of cars.

[Shipwreck]

I'm a mechanic and I reckon he probably just cleaned the exterior of the original O2 sensor and cleared the code with the scan tool.

The three hour waiting time may well of been a ploy to make it seem worth what you paid him.

It would be interesting to take a look at the alleged new sensor and see if the part number is original equipment Honda.

Is this something I can do myself? Maybe I can find the one he gave me back - that one should be original Honda.

[Shipwreck]

I'd be taking a look to see if the check engine light still has a bulb in it. Does it still come on prior to starting?

Yes, it still comes on prior to starting.

[Shipwreck]

Is it just me, or does that sound ridiculously expensive for an oxygen sensor? The last time I replaced one in my car in the states, it was like $80USD for the part. Doesn't 7k+ baht sound like a bit much? Installation is just a screw-out and screw-in with a one electrical attachment, so why the hefty price? Or is this one of those "magic" Honda parts that they like to use?

I checked on my phone for Jazz O2 sensors via Google and saw a bunch of western forums saying that the part was $200+, so 7k+ sounded about right to me.

[WilliamCave]

I always go to a big Toyota dealer and watched them change the brakes and other regular maintenance usually done and I always get a written quote. And I want to see the new parts before they are installed

Did happen once before on the wife's pick up . We went to change the battery at a smaller shop and I was wondering why it was taking so long and I walked back to see they were changing the air filter and other things with out our premision they said it need to be done then my wife told them it was just done 2 monts ago and would not pay the bill so they put back the other air filter ,

[culicine]

I'd be taking a look to see if the check engine light still has a bulb in it. Does it still come on prior to starting?

Yes, it still comes on prior to starting.

The CEL still comes on? They should have cleared the code.

If the O2 sensor is faulty, no amount of cleaning will fix it. it is possibly dirty, but I'm not sure if that will cause a CEL.

Either way, if they put in a properly functioning sensor, they need to clear the code. If the sensor is not working properly, after clearing the code, the CEL will come back on again, perhaps after a week or so.

Genuine parts will carry a 6 month warranty or something like that. If it goes bad again, and it's not a genuine part, they would not replace it free of charge. Did you get the original box the new sensor came in? That should have a number on it that you can check if its genuine or not.

[bobo42]

Is it just me, or does that sound ridiculously expensive for an oxygen sensor? The last time I replaced one in my car in the states, it was like $80USD for the part. Doesn't 7k+ baht sound like a bit much? Installation is just a screw-out and screw-in with a one electrical attachment, so why the hefty price? Or is this one of those "magic" Honda parts that they like to use?

I checked on my phone for Jazz O2 sensors via Google and saw a bunch of western forums saying that the part was $200+, so 7k+ sounded about right to me.

Must be one of the magic parts or fluids that Honda uses in some models. With their judicious use non-standard lubricants and some expensive replacement parts, I sometimes think they do it just to screw with us. But they are generally good cars, so I guess sometimes you just gotta pay up.

Sounds like the guy was just assuming you'd want to pay the lowest price possible (probably like most locals would), and just figured to make some for himself in the process. From the info here, my guess is its probably a good repair, he's just an ass for making the assumption that you'd be happier this way (which probably most of his customers are).

[mogandave]

I would not have paid him.

[Satcommlee]

I'll go with the "you've been royally screwed" theory also, in fact it's one of the oldest tricks in the book!

[TommoPhysicist]

If you had demanded an official repair, he would have just written out an official receipt for the full price.

At least you car would have still been under warranty that way.

[culicine]

This is a good heads up for me - my car has started to throw a CEL, on and off, and I'll get that checked next weekend. Honda dealer said the on/off pattern is a warning that a sensor is going bad. I'll get it checked next weekend and will insist on seeing the work done and the code that is produced from the ECU. 7K for an O2 sensor isn't pocket money so want to check what code is produced and it is replaced properly. Or I can just get the code and go to a wrecker and get one, but wouldn't know if it's ok and now warranty. I'll post here about the outcome.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

So-called "genuine" parts are always expensive. An O2 sensor in a new car is part of the emissions system and in Canada is a warranty item good for eight years. Honda Canada's website shows Check Engine Light part of 8-year warranty. How old is your car?

I checked Canadian source for a 2010 Honda Fit LX-- same same Jazz. An O2 sensor runs $105 to $225 for a non-OE generic sensor (Walker). Walker shows a list price for a presumably OE unit of $250, about 6500 baht plus sales tax. So 7,000 baht for genuine Honda sensor sounds about right.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[culicine]

So-called "genuine" parts are always expensive. An O2 sensor in a new car is part of the emissions system and in Canada is a warranty item good for eight years. Honda Canada's website shows Check Engine Light part of 8-year warranty. How old is your car?

I checked Canadian source for a 2010 Honda Fit LX-- same same Jazz. An O2 sensor runs $105 to $225 for a non-OE generic sensor (Walker). Walker shows a list price for a presumably OE unit of $250, about 6500 baht plus sales tax. So 7,000 baht for genuine Honda sensor sounds about right.

Thanks. I just went to look at my map sensor. And what did I find? My rubber intake pipe is nearly completely split right around! I assume this is what is causing the CEL. I put a sock around it to stop the engine sucking in anymore unfiltered air. No wonder it felt like it had some more pull last night My worry with honda is they will try to sell the whole intake assembly, which i don't want, as I already modified my airbox to increase air flow. Might have to go to a local garage and see if they can source a second hand part for cheaper.