No More Benzene?

[cloudhopper]

Hi I just read in the CM forum that the government is no longer producing 91 benzene and going entirely to gasohol. If this is true it could severely impact 2 stroke OB motors. Anyone know anything about this?

[LivinginKata]

This has been in the works for some time. My car needs benzine 95 but 91 @ PTT is the best I can get. filled up at PTT Kata a few days ago, price was benzine 44 baht. Guess I,LL need to check more carefully next time.

[stevenl]

AFAIK this was the plan, starting 1 January, but the plans have changed and it will remain available.

[pagallim]

I run a 2 stroke outboard on my boat also, and at a recent service that I had done by the local Mercury dealer, I asked about the impact of non-availability of 91 gasoline. The Service Manager told me that 95 gasohol would be OK, but gasohol leads to the premature deterioration of rubber parts in the engine. Need to have inspections done more frequently I guess.

[cloudhopper]

I run a 2 stroke outboard on my boat also, and at a recent service that I had done by the local Mercury dealer, I asked about the impact of non-availability of 91 gasoline. The Service Manager told me that 95 gasohol would be OK, but gasohol leads to the premature deterioration of rubber parts in the engine. Need to have inspections done more frequently I guess.

i wonder why he said to use 95. Hi octane only prevents preignition in hi compression engines and OB motors typically have very low compression ratios. Someone on the other thread mentioned that the premix oil was the main issue for gasohol. I know in aircraft the big concern is water vapor mixing with the alcohol and then condensing in the tank, in addition to the rubber issues.

[cloudhopper]

I run a 2 stroke outboard on my boat also, and at a recent service that I had done by the local Mercury dealer, I asked about the impact of non-availability of 91 gasoline. The Service Manager told me that 95 gasohol would be OK, but gasohol leads to the premature deterioration of rubber parts in the engine. Need to have inspections done more frequently I guess.

i wonder why he said to use 95. Hi octane only prevents preignition in hi compression engines and OB motors typically have very low compression ratios. Someone on the other thread mentioned that the premix oil was the main issue for gasohol. I know in aircraft the big concern is water vapor mixing with the alcohol and then condensing in the tank, in addition to the rubber issues.

A friend just sent me an excerpt from a US Yamaha OB manual that says E10 should be OK but a water separating filter between the fuel tank and motor is advised.

[Phuket Stu]

Here they use E20 (20%) which is outlawed in many western countries as it destroys engines. E10 is max. There have been indipendant test done on samples in Thailand that were actually E35, yes 35% as it is cheaper than oil fuels and money seems to talk in Thailand over the laws.

[KarenBravo]

I notice that the pumps I get 91 at the Chao Fah west PTT station, have changed the colour of 91 from red to yellow (I think).

The pump attendant said it was the same and there was a queue of small bike riders.

Anyone know what this stuff is?

[LivinginKata]

PTT stopped supplying benzine 1st Jan 2013, was the red colour pump. Now it's all gasahol (percentage of ethanol mix in - not sure how much, different mixes). Trouble is that many older vehicle cannot use gasohol as it will eventually damage the engine. As fast as I know pure benzine is not available anywhere in Thailand.

[Valentine]

I notice that the pumps I get 91 at the Chao Fah west PTT station, have changed the colour of 91 from red to yellow (I think).

The pump attendant said it was the same and there was a queue of small bike riders.

Anyone know what this stuff is?

Pretty sure it is gasahol.

[KarenBravo]

Do they still sell unadulterated 95?

Reckon that should be OK for my Super-Cubs.

[LivinginKata]

Just pulled into PTT Kata to fill up. I see the 91 is Green colour code and 95 is Orange colour code. No-one could tell me the difference so I left without filling up. Question - which one will do the least damage to my performance engine. Googling to research, let you know what I find.

[Valentine]

Do they still sell unadulterated 95?

Reckon that should be OK for my Super-Cubs.

If you check the pricing you should get a pretty good idea they are gasahol & not pure benzene as before but not sure which one has the least amount of palm oil. I am assuming the it will be more of a problem for older motors such as yours but newer engines in cars at least should have seals which are more compatible with gasahol.

[noob7]

PTT stopped supplying benzine 1st Jan 2013, was the red colour pump. Now it's all gasahol (percentage of ethanol mix in - not sure how much, different mixes). Trouble is that many older vehicle cannot use gasohol as it will eventually damage the engine. As fast as I know pure benzine is not available anywhere in Thailand.

PTT is having 91 Benzine at about 47 baht.

The color is Yellow

Chalong PTT is offering it,

Whichit not at the Moto pumps, but in the back

Edited January 21, 2013 by noob7

[Gregory Morozov]

PTT Chalong claims that new "yellow" fuel is 95 gasoline

[KarenBravo]

Yes.....I'm totally confused now.

The Chalong PTT does have this fuel at the outrageous price of 46 Bt per litre which is labeled yellow.

I still can't get a straight answer from the attendants. Next time, I'll ask over at the office.

On the big price board, all fuels with ethanol have the E number, yet, the 46 Bt stuff has just a word with no E number.

I do know that all the bikes are using it.

[LivinginKata]

If it's price in the 46 baht range then it will be pure benzine, no mix. Not have at PTT Kata. Will try Chalong.

[LivinginKata]

I noticed Susco station on way to airport has 95 priced at 51 baht yesterday. That is the only place I knew with 95 benzine.

[hansgruber]

I noticed Susco station on way to airport has 95 priced at 51 baht yesterday. That is the only place I knew with 95 benzine.

Yes. Malaysian fuel. Wish they had more stations around.

[noob7]

Yes.....I'm totally confused now.

The Chalong PTT does have this fuel at the outrageous price of 46 Bt per litre which is labeled yellow.

I still can't get a straight answer from the attendants. Next time, I'll ask over at the office.

On the big price board, all fuels with ethanol have the E number, yet, the 46 Bt stuff has just a word with no E number.

I do know that all the bikes are using it.

The word is saying something like Benzin, methinks!

The Yellow is for Benzin

[KarenBravo]

Yes.....I'm totally confused now.

The Chalong PTT does have this fuel at the outrageous price of 46 Bt per litre which is labeled yellow.

I still can't get a straight answer from the attendants. Next time, I'll ask over at the office.

On the big price board, all fuels with ethanol have the E number, yet, the 46 Bt stuff has just a word with no E number.

I do know that all the bikes are using it.

The word is saying something like Benzin, methinks!

The Yellow is for Benzin

OK, that seals it. Can't read Thai. That's what I'll continue to use, then.

[bunta71]

Do they still sell unadulterated 95?

Reckon that should be OK for my Super-Cubs.

In Alaska we frequently taxied over to the local gas station and filled up our Supercubs. Cars were used to it and usually gave way...Sometimes we got water in our gas.

Edited January 21, 2013 by bunta71

[cloudhopper]

Do they still sell unadulterated 95?

Reckon that should be OK for my Super-Cubs.

Regular 91 will work fine. Still available (for now anyway) at the Yacht Haven marina for 50 baht/liter. Will check at the Shell station down the road tomorrow. Lots of outboard and older small petrol motors are going to be damaged if the government maintains this stupid policy.

[CroBiker]

Yellow is not benzine, period. If there is no red sticker or red nozzle, it means there is no benzine. All other colors such as yellow, green and blue are non-benzine. The only benzine you can find on the island is 95 at Susco near airport and another Susco station half way between Sarasin Bridge and Phang Nga town. Price in excess of THB 50 per liter. In upcountry, notably around BKK area, look for Malaysian Petronas stations, they sell RON 95. In Phuket stick to Shell V-Power E10/95 if you were previously using 91 or 95 benzine. 2 stroke bikes will suffer though...plastic and rubber parts deteriorate due to presence of alcohol.

[noob7]

Yellow is not benzine, period.

Not that I wanna argue with you:

http://t2.gstatic.co...dHXnBjm7RDgREsh

(Picture link, but no permission to use it!)

PTT Blue Gasoline 95 is Yellow and no Gasohol!

http://www.pttplc.co...Pages/home.aspx

scroll a bit, till you see media center. Look onto the right side of the page.

Funny story, I had a chat with a friend, about the gasoline at the Wichit PTT

Not available, at the 'motocy pumps'. The friend of mine insisted, to get it at the "not for motocy, only for car" pump.

They don't wanted to sell. The guy needed to ask the boss, what they should do, to get the stupid Farang (my friend understand a bit Thai) move his motocy away.

Solution: Boss said sell him what he want.

Btw: My mileage per liter is going up. About 10%, I think. The gas station in Chalong is selling yellow Benzene (!) to motocy and car, no ploblem for them.

Kata will never get it, i think. I stopped going there, after I thought about, how they changed the tanks, without digging, at the time, gasohol came on the market.

The same price, like before, but less mileage. So my guess was, they changed only the color and the price at the pump., If I remember right, they did set up the standard colors for the fuel color (colored the fuel by type) in Thailand, about 3-4 years after they started with gasohol.

Edited January 21, 2013 by noob7

[CroBiker]

Yellow is not benzine, period.

Not that I wanna argue with you:

http://t2.gstatic.co...dHXnBjm7RDgREsh

(Picture link, but no permission to use it!)

PTT Blue Gasoline 95 is Yellow and no Gasohol!

http://www.pttplc.co...Pages/home.aspx

scroll a bit, till you see media center. Look onto the right side of the page.

Funny story, I had a chat with a friend, about the gasoline at the Wichit PTT

Not available, at the 'motocy pumps'. The friend of mine insisted, to get it at the "not for motocy, only for car" pump.

They don't wanted to sell. The guy needed to ask the boss, what they should do, to get the stupid Farang (my friend understand a bit Thai) move his motocy away.

Solution: Boss said sell him what he want.

Btw: My mileage per liter is going up. About 10%, I think. The gas station in Chalong is selling yellow Benzene (!) to motocy and car, no ploblem for them.

Kata will never get it, i think. I stopped going there, after I thought about, how they changed the tanks, without digging, at the time, gasohol came on the market.

The same price, like before, but less mileage. So my guess was, they changed only the color and the price at the pump., If I remember right, they did set up the standard colors for the fuel color (colored the fuel by type) in Thailand, about 3-4 years after they started with gasohol.

That is strange....I went today to at least 6-7 stations and they clearly told me benzine has been discontinued on PTT and Esso stations nationwide. They even placed warning stickers on pumps. Had no choice but to pump Gasohol 95.

[LivinginKata]

Esso/Shell/Caltex discontinued real gasoline (benzine) a couple of years ago. PTT wanted to discontinue early last year but there was a public outcry about vehicles that could not run on gasohol and they caved to public demand. But now they just don't care. Interesting that Susco is Malaysian supplied. I guess I'll have to drive out towards the airport there every few weeks.

[noob7]

Esso/Shell/Caltex discontinued real gasoline (benzine) a couple of years ago. PTT wanted to discontinue early last year but there was a public outcry about vehicles that could not run on gasohol and they caved to public demand. But now they just don't care. Interesting that Susco is Malaysian supplied. I guess I'll have to drive out towards the airport there every few weeks.

So you don't believe in the yellow signs and the website of PTT?

Chalong and Wichit PTT added this last week. That time, they stopped selling 91 (blue red?) for over 43 Baht.

The 91 for 43 baht was sold as gasoline, too. If I recall that right.

Edited January 21, 2013 by noob7

[Valentine]

Esso/Shell/Caltex discontinued real gasoline (benzine) a couple of years ago. PTT wanted to discontinue early last year but there was a public outcry about vehicles that could not run on gasohol and they caved to public demand. But now they just don't care. Interesting that Susco is Malaysian supplied. I guess I'll have to drive out towards the airport there every few weeks.

So you don't believe in the yellow signs and the website of PTT?

Chalong and Wichit PTT added this last week. That time, they stopped selling 91 (blue red?) for over 43 Baht.

The 91 for 43 baht was sold as gasoline, too. If I recall that right.

I was at PTT today on Chao Fa West. green pump is gasahol 91, orange pump is gasahol 95, yellow pump is Super i.e. benzene priced at 46 Baht/litre & this is what all the motorbikes were getting & at that price it would not be anything but benzene.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Valentine

[walker600]

I was looking into this the other day after my local petrol station in Chalong stopped selling the benzine and said they had cancelled ordering it.

I was interested to know what the difference was between the benzine and gasahol and the different numbers, as well as why the gasahol is so bad.

I spent a few hours going through google and I thought I would just share what I found. If anyone has call to dis-agree with anything feel free but please try to base your argument on more than just hearsay.

• Both Gasahol 91 & 95 are a 10% ethanol blend
  
• Logically the gasahol 91 is blended with benzine 91 and gasahol 95 is blended with benzine 95
  
• The new e20 is a 20% ethanol blend (I don't know with which quality of benzine)
  
• The 91 and 95 numbers refer to the octane rating of the fuel (quote from wikipedia - Octane rating or octane number is a standard measure of the performance of a motor or aviation fuel. The higher the octane number, the more compression the fuel can withstand before detonating. In broad terms, fuels with a higher octane rating are used in high-compression engines that generally have higher performance. In contrast, fuels with low octane numbers (but highcetane numbers) are ideal for diesel engines. Use of gasoline with less octane numbers may lead to the problem of engine knocking.^[1])
  

So whats the problem with Gasahol?

*From what I understand the biggest mechanical problem with Gasahol is the ethanol can attack certain types of rubbers and plastics i.e fuel lines and also catalytic converters. The problem with the fuel lines is not to do with leaking fuel hoses, but rather a gummy residue forming within the fuel lines leading to blocked injectors, sticky floats etc... depending on the type of engine. Gasahol has been around for quite a while so (in my opinion) it would be quite foolish to assume that any modern vehicle would have been made using the kind of fuel lines that will not stand up to ethanol.

If your worried your vehicle could be susceptible to this then Gasahol rated fuel lines can be bought from all the local hardware shops for a little DIY project, otherwise a competent mechanic should be able to do it fairly easily.

I'm going to replace the lines on my outboard and possibly my 5yr old scooter myself.

*Ethanol is less powerful than straight Benzine..... this does result in less miles per gallon/liter, the figure being touted on google is about 4% less efficient. It would appear there was alot of complaining in the states several years ago about it costing more to run on the Ethanol blend as they were priced similarly. So if you were paying the same but getting less bang for you buck why switch. Last time I checked at the pump Gasahol 91 was about 20% cheaper than Benzine, so while you are getting less MPG your pocket is better off. I just ran through my first tank of Gasahol in my ER6N and the average MPG dropped from 22.4 to 21.7 (m/pl - km/pl) Not a noticeable drop, which could also be accounted for by differing riding style/road conditions.

*The last potential issue with Gasahol (this will be more noticeable by boat owners and people who leave their vehicle unused for long periods) is Ethanol's ability to absorb water. Boat owners are mainly at risk here as quite often you will have dozens of gallons of fuel, sat at sea for extended periods of time between uses. The Ethanol in the fuel absorbs water, which then separates in the tank and settles to the bottom. A very small amount isn't a big problem, but alot is. Water doesn't compress like fuel does and can cause alot of damages. (I found this on google but can't find the website right now to reference it - If you have a 100l of fuel left for a month or 2 it can absorb somewhere between 1 and 2 gallons of water) That water then settles to the bottom of the tank, where the fuel pickup is and heads straight for the carbs.. The best way to solve this problem is with a good water separating fuel filter.

Those of you who have left a scooter with a tank full of gasahol for a month of so while you have been away may have found it a bit sluggish when you first fired it up.. It should also have been ok after the first re-fuel.... Try leaving the tank near empty before storage and filling with fresh fuel when getting it out.

Anyway, sorry for the essay and welcome your thoughts.

Chris