Victims In Delhi Rape Case Are To Blame, Defendants' Lawyer Says

[easton]

The lawyer is just trying to mount the best defense he can for his clients. Regrettably blaming the victim is probably the only thing he can do.

IMHP lawyers = scum.

[maidu]

Bloody disgraceful.

The world is in deep shit if this gets accepted by Indian courts.

This blame-the-victim defence line is typical in muslim countries....and usually accepted by the court

No it's not. India is not a muslim country. I have worked in several muslim countries and your comment would not be applicable in any of them. Muslim countries are different in the same way that Christian countries are. Pakistan and Afghanistan are not representative of the muslim world.

This lawyer is a "shyster" - milking his five minutes of fame for as much publicity as he can get. Given the inflamed passions of many Indians on this it could back-fire on him. I wouldn't walk down any dark alleys If I were him!

Granted, the gang rape in the OP was done by Hindus, but for those wondering if the scenario could be any worse, here's what Sharia law says about gang rape: "If a woman gets raped, she is considered guilty of adultery unless she can provide four adult muslim male witnesses who had watched the action and who would testify that the sex was actually forced on her and that she was not a willing partner in it. If she has only female witnesses, then she is out of luck. Her punishment is stoning to death if she is married or hundred (100) lashes if single."

"A 19 year old girl was gang raped repeatedly by six men in Saudi Arabia recently and was given a punishment of 200 lashes and six months prison ( the punishment was increased because it was a gang rape)."

source

p.s. from Maidu: Sharia law is not only gaining in Muslim countries like Indonesia, but is making inroads in European communities. One discussion is whether Belgium or Holland will be the first European country to be forced to accept Sharia law.

[Scott]

A racial slur has been removed and a reply to the post.

[koheesti]

Let that happen to his daughter & let's see what tune he will be singing. What an idiot.

He'd probably set her on fire or something for disgracing the family.

[simple1]

Info on men publicly hanged in Iran for rape in recent times. Some graphic images.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/29/convicted-rapists-put-to-death-by-hanging-in-iran/

http://www.payvand.com/news/11/oct/1129.htm

http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com/2012/12/iran-five-executed-in-public-for-rape.html

[koheesti]

I don't know what I feel worse about...

- the horrible state of the judicial system in India if this idiot attorney's defense strategy is accepted as valid reasoning

or

- the defendants who will surely hang (instead of getting 25-life in prison) based on this idiot attorney's defense strategy

You would feel bad about the hanging of these rapist-murderers? Not me. I'll learn their names, go to a bar, order one shot for each of them, make a toast in their names individually expressing my happiness that justice has prevailed and if there is a Hell they will be burning in it for eternity.

[Pushit]

"The lawyer representing three of the men charged with the gang rape and murder of a medical student aboard a moving bus in New Delhi has blamed the victims for the assault, saying he has never heard of a "respected lady" being raped in India".

This guy has all the rhetoric to make him an excellent Thai Deputy PM...

Edited January 13, 2013 by metisdead
: Bold removed.

[rgs2001uk]

Info on men publicly hanged in Iran for rape in recent times. Some graphic images.

http://www.rawstory....anging-in-iran/

http://www.payvand.c...11/oct/1129.htm

http://deathpenaltyn...c-for-rape.html

Excellent well done the Iranians, nice to see a progressive forward thinking country dispensing its own form of justice.

[Tchooptip]

.

Come on people, there are nutters in all countries.

Absolutely, I often say one who paints a whole community with the same brush is stupid...

... On the other hand I'm afraid some countries hosted more "nutters" than other...not impossible India "could be" one of them

[simple1]

Info on men publicly hanged in Iran for rape in recent times. Some graphic images.

http://www.rawstory....anging-in-iran/

http://www.payvand.c...11/oct/1129.htm

http://deathpenaltyn...c-for-rape.html

Excellent well done the Iranians, nice to see a progressive forward thinking country dispensing its own form of justice.

Posted the info as some posts have claimed under sharia law difficult to obtain convictions for rape. From Wikipedia 10-15% of executions in Iran are for rape. "for most part, convictions are made either by confession or "judge's knowledge", rather than witnesses.

[Morch]

Oh dear...

Bringing to the fore once again that Punjab is close to becoming a rape capital, a lone woman traveling in a bus was abducted and gang-raped by seven men in Gurdaspur on Friday night.

After being sexually brutalized, the victim had to bear more torture as the completely insensitive Punjab police revealed her identity to the media during briefing on the crime.

http://timesofindia....w/18000897.cms?

I really wonder if reporting on these cases now is a media trend or signifies some social change.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Morch

[Totster]

Oh dear...

Bringing to the fore once again that Punjab is close to becoming a rape capital, a lone woman traveling in a bus was abducted and gang-raped by seven men in Gurdaspur on Friday night.

After being sexually brutalized, the victim had to bear more torture as the completely insensitive Punjab police revealed her identity to the media during briefing on the crime.

http://timesofindia....w/18000897.cms?

I really wonder if reporting on these cases now is a media trend or signifies some social change.

It means this kind of thing is common in India, the difference is that now it is news..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21003279

totster

[DaamNaam]

Oh dear...

Bringing to the fore once again that Punjab is close to becoming a rape capital, a lone woman traveling in a bus was abducted and gang-raped by seven men in Gurdaspur on Friday night.

After being sexually brutalized, the victim had to bear more torture as the completely insensitive Punjab police revealed her identity to the media during briefing on the crime.

http://timesofindia....w/18000897.cms?

I really wonder if reporting on these cases now is a media trend or signifies some social change.

Hopefully it will trigger the social change needed. At least bring it to everyones attention rather than sweeping it under the carpet.

[Tchooptip]

If you Google 5 minutes or search a little you tube you'll soon see incredible brutality is rampant in India and this poor girl's rape is unfortunately only an example. If you click on the link you'll see a man beaten to death in broad daylight on a main road by three people inebriated while passer by ignored the scene.

Happened in India, same incredible violence amidst total indifference, so I do not believe I am off topic

[F430murci]

Info on men publicly hanged in Iran for rape in recent times. Some graphic images.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/29/convicted-rapists-put-to-death-by-hanging-in-iran/

http://www.payvand.com/news/11/oct/1129.htm

http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com/2012/12/iran-five-executed-in-public-for-rape.html

And the point is . . . How wonderfully humane in support of women and race equality Iran is. Hope they got the right dudes and some body with a vendetta did not make an accusation for revenge or improper motives.

[F430murci]

Info on men publicly hanged in Iran for rape in recent times. Some graphic images.

http://www.rawstory....anging-in-iran/

http://www.payvand.c...11/oct/1129.htm

http://deathpenaltyn...c-for-rape.html

Excellent well done the Iranians, nice to see a progressive forward thinking country dispensing its own form of justice.

Posted the info as some posts have claimed under sharia law difficult to obtain convictions for rape. From Wikipedia 10-15% of executions in Iran are for rape. "for most part, convictions are made either by confession or "judge's knowledge", rather than witnesses.

That choice between being painfully tortured at best before death or quick death by hanging if you admit guilt is a tough choice to make. Worked well a few hundred years ago when trying to figure who was a witch or the sons and daughters of Satan. They found a bunch of them.

Morally, both India and Iran are on about equal footing, but for different reasons. India only rarely or selectively enforces laws relating to deprivation of human rights, especially if the rights violation relates to women. Iran will just torture you and will probably only use excuses like rape to torture a confession when in reality the reason one is being targeted is politically motivated.

Not sure why anyone would want to defend eithe culture as it relates to that conduct which should not be acceptable or defended.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/11/iran-blogger-who-told-supreme-leader-khamenei-your-judicial-system-is-nothing-but-a-slaughterhouse-t.html

"Mr. Khamenei, [in Iran] people are arrested, and are then subjected to a series of tortures until they confess to crimes they did not commit. Burning cigarettes are extinguished in their flesh; they are branded with hot irons, their heads are shoved into toilets full of excrement until they confess to a sin they never committed.

"After the passing of a sentence based on this confession, the laws of shari'a and of God's religion are implemented!...  Is this [indeed] God's religion – or is it [merely] violent behavior in the name of God's religion, with the aim of remaining in power?

"Mr. Khamenei: As an Iranian, I see you and your judicial system – your slaughterhouse – as artists in the art of murder. Believe me [when I say] that I think you’re an artist."

Edited January 13, 2013 by F430murci

[Steely Dan]

I don't know if India has laws against hate speech but the words of this lawyer can actually be classifed as hate speech !

Shocking !

Up until recently, I had thought that India was ahead of most Middle Eastern countries, regarding women's rights. I guess I had thought wrongly.

Nope, alas you were right after all. Rape victims are faced with being flogged for sex outside marriage, or worse in many Islamic Countries. If that were not enough they may be murdered by their own families for bringing dishonour to them. Women are treated abysmally in India in some cases, but incredibly they are still better off there than in Pakistan or much of the middle east - the outrage cases such as this generate also seems to be more for this admittedly repugnant case than far larger cases seem to generate in say Pakistan.

[EyesWideOpen]

i was to busy chuckling at his accent to get incensed over its content

I agree. It took me quite a while to realize he was speaking English. :-) While his statement sounds outrageous ,

I think that is a somewhat standard rape defense. I wonder if he uses the same defense for acid attacks.....

Edited January 13, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[F430murci]

i was to busy chuckling at his accent to get incensed over its content

I agree. It took me quite a while to realize he was speaking English. :-) While his statement sounds outrageous ,

I think that is a somewhat standard rape defense. I wonder if he uses the same defense for acid attacks.....

Maybe in India, but that is not the standard rape defense in civilized cultures. His statement is a reflection of a cultural issue wherein it apparently is okay to forceably rape or gang rape a women if you have the subjective belief that she deserves it.

A defense is they did not do it or she consented.

[Tchooptip]

Can you believe it ?

Yes ... happened again ... same same, 6 men they gang rape a 29 years old woman in the same conditions less than a month after the above-mentioned story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-21003279

[Mosha]

BBC is reporting this 2nd gang rape on a bus just now. 6 arrests made and a 7th suspect is being sought.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Mosha

[simple1]

Info on men publicly hanged in Iran for rape in recent times. Some graphic images.

http://www.rawstory....anging-in-iran/

http://www.payvand.c...11/oct/1129.htm

http://deathpenaltyn...c-for-rape.html

Excellent well done the Iranians, nice to see a progressive forward thinking country dispensing its own form of justice.

Posted the info as some posts have claimed under sharia law difficult to obtain convictions for rape. From Wikipedia 10-15% of executions in Iran are for rape. "for most part, convictions are made either by confession or "judge's knowledge", rather than witnesses.

That choice between being painfully tortured at best before death or quick death by hanging if you admit guilt is a tough choice to make. Worked well a few hundred years ago when trying to figure who was a witch or the sons and daughters of Satan. They found a bunch of them.

Morally, both India and Iran are on about equal footing, but for different reasons. India only rarely or selectively enforces laws relating to deprivation of human rights, especially if the rights violation relates to women. Iran will just torture you and will probably only use excuses like rape to torture a confession when in reality the reason one is being targeted is politically motivated.

Not sure why anyone would want to defend eithe culture as it relates to that conduct which should not be acceptable or defended.

http://atlasshrugs20...terhouse-t.html

"Mr. Khamenei, [in Iran] people are arrested, and are then subjected to a series of tortures until they confess to crimes they did not commit. Burning cigarettes are extinguished in their flesh; they are branded with hot irons, their heads are shoved into toilets full of excrement until they confess to a sin they never committed.

"After the passing of a sentence based on this confession, the laws of shari'a and of God's religion are implemented!... Is this [indeed] God's religion – or is it [merely] violent behavior in the name of God's religion, with the aim of remaining in power?

"Mr. Khamenei: As an Iranian, I see you and your judicial system – your slaughterhouse – as artists in the art of murder. Believe me [when I say] that I think you're an artist."

Not defending, just posting some content from Iranian & international media. To say that those convicted for rape is just a setup for political opponents is a big assumption. No need to do that in Iran as the government/Mullahs do not need any excuse such as rape to justify killing the opposition. In any case, it counters the many claims on TV you must have 4 witnesses to gain a conviction for rape in a country under sharia law.

Edited January 14, 2013 by simple1

[maidu]

Perhaps one factor, among many, is in India, there is a larger proportion of males. Females are killed, either in the womb or soon after birth for economic reasons. Hindus require dowry paid by families of brides, so (particularly for a poor family) a girl baby is seen as a big problem.

I just watched some documentary videos about abuse of females in Pakistan. Granted, similar abuse happens in over half the countries in the world. One big question: Which are the worst countries to be born female (if they even get out of the womb alive)?

Here's one answer to the above question.

The list starts with these countries in the top 5 (it's fierce competition, btw):

Afghanistan

D.R. Congo

Iraq

Nepal

Sudan

source

Edited January 14, 2013 by maidu

[Mosha]

In the UK the medical staff tend to be wary of disclosing the gender of the child to certain people.

[Scott]

This topic is about a rape in India. Comparisons are OK, but let's keep the main discussion to India.

[jcnbkk]

F'd up all over, not just India, Middle East, So. America. Even in the gold standard legal system of the USA, defense lawers attempt to disgrace and discredit the victims. Reruns of Law and Order must be on satellite everywhere..

I am not a criminal Defense law, but I do recall writing on this issue for a State Supreme Court Justice when I clerked back in the mid 90s. To my recollection, this is not the gold standard in the US and it is actually very difficult to place a rape vicitm or sexual assault victim's character at issue.

My recollection is generally can only be done that or those defendants had previously had consenesual sexual relations together to show he rasonably believed consent for the challeneged conduct or to show no contact with vicitm and that semen samples reveal she had sex withsomeone other than the accused.

Here is the Federal Rule and most states are patterned after Federal Rules. India is just messed up and, actually, no attorney worth their weight in salt would make such a statement unless there was a likelihood of a jury agreeing with such a statement. I also think that specific statement would be an ethical violaiton in US.

FRE 412 - Sex Offense Cases; Relevance of Alleged Victim's Past Sexual Behavior or Alleged Sexual Predisposition

(a) Evidence generally inadmissible.

The following evidence is not admissible in any civil or criminal proceeding involving alleged sexual misconduct except as provided in subdivisions ( and ©:

(1) Evidence offered to prove that any alleged victim engaged in other sexual behavior.

(2) Evidence offered to prove any alleged victim's sexual predisposition.

( Exceptions.

(1) In a criminal case, the following evidence is admissible, if otherwise admissible under these rules:

(A) evidence of specific instances of sexual behavior by the alleged victim offered to prove that a person other than the accused was the source of semen, injury, or other physical evidence;

( evidence of specific instances of sexual behavior by the alleged victim with respect to the person accused of the sexual misconduct offered by the accused to prove consent or by the prosecution; and

© evidence the exclusion of which would violate the constitutional rights of the defendant.

(2) In a civil case, evidence offered to prove the sexual behavior or sexual predisposition of any alleged victim is admissible if it is otherwise admissible under these rules and its probative value substantially outweighs the danger of harm to any victim and of unfair prejudice to any party. Evidence of an alleged victim's reputation is admissible only if it has been placed in controversy by the alleged victim.

© Procedure to determine admissibility.

(1) A party intending to offer evidence under subdivision ( must --

(A) file a written motion at least 14 days before trial specifically describing the evidence and stating the purpose for which it is offered unless the court, for good cause requires a different time for filing or permits filing during trial; and

( serve the motion on all parties and notify the alleged victim or, when appropriate, the alleged victim's guardian or representative.

(2) Before admitting evidence under this rule the court must conduct a hearing in camera and afford the victim and parties a right to attend and be heard. The motion, related papers, and the record of the hearing must be sealed and remain under seal unless the court orders otherwise.

Sorry I wasn't clear with my comment. I used the term gold standard in referring to the American legal system in general, not to the defense tactics used in a sexual assault case. Thanks for education on the rules of evidence that appear to have the goal of fairness in trial. And truth. Something the doesn't seem the priority in India by this case.

[Thai Dreamer]

This Lawyers life expectancy has just shrunk dramatically.

he has never heard of a "respected lady" being raped in India

I am flabgasted by these lawyer scum bags.

[koheesti]

i was to busy chuckling at his accent to get incensed over its content

I agree. It took me quite a while to realize he was speaking English. :-) While his statement sounds outrageous ,

I think that is a somewhat standard rape defense. I wonder if he uses the same defense for acid attacks.....

Maybe in India, but that is not the standard rape defense in civilized cultures. His statement is a reflection of a cultural issue wherein it apparently is okay to forceably rape or gang rape a women if you have the subjective belief that she deserves it.

A defense is they did not do it or she consented.

OK, assuming the jury believes that the woman did deserve to be raped...how will they feel about murder? The woman did die as a result of the attack after all. Even in India, isn't murder of a female by several males considered bad?

[rgs2001uk]

Info on men publicly hanged in Iran for rape in recent times. Some graphic images.

http://www.rawstory....anging-in-iran/

http://www.payvand.c...11/oct/1129.htm

http://deathpenaltyn...c-for-rape.html

Excellent well done the Iranians, nice to see a progressive forward thinking country dispensing its own form of justice.

Posted the info as some posts have claimed under sharia law difficult to obtain convictions for rape. From Wikipedia 10-15% of executions in Iran are for rape. "for most part, convictions are made either by confession or "judge's knowledge", rather than witnesses.

That choice between being painfully tortured at best before death or quick death by hanging if you admit guilt is a tough choice to make. Worked well a few hundred years ago when trying to figure who was a witch or the sons and daughters of Satan. They found a bunch of them.

Morally, both India and Iran are on about equal footing, but for different reasons. India only rarely or selectively enforces laws relating to deprivation of human rights, especially if the rights violation relates to women. Iran will just torture you and will probably only use excuses like rape to torture a confession when in reality the reason one is being targeted is politically motivated.

Not sure why anyone would want to defend eithe culture as it relates to that conduct which should not be acceptable or defended.

http://atlasshrugs20...terhouse-t.html

"Mr. Khamenei, [in Iran] people are arrested, and are then subjected to a series of tortures until they confess to crimes they did not commit. Burning cigarettes are extinguished in their flesh; they are branded with hot irons, their heads are shoved into toilets full of excrement until they confess to a sin they never committed.

"After the passing of a sentence based on this confession, the laws of shari'a and of God's religion are implemented!... Is this [indeed] God's religion – or is it [merely] violent behavior in the name of God's religion, with the aim of remaining in power?

"Mr. Khamenei: As an Iranian, I see you and your judicial system – your slaughterhouse – as artists in the art of murder. Believe me [when I say] that I think you're an artist."

Sounds more like an anti Iranian website, a quick look at some of the adverts although noted I wont be drawn into discussion on.

I was applauding Iran for its stance on hanging rapists, I also support the death penalty.

I have to laugh at the hypocrisy and the ability some have to turn a blind eye to the practices carried out by other countries in the region, but what the heck it doesnt matter they are our allies.

Luckily as an atheist and free thinker the religious arguements dont apply to me, neither does the dogma of flat earthers or those who claim to have some sort of esoteric knowledge or infallability.

[F430murci]

i was to busy chuckling at his accent to get incensed over its content

I agree. It took me quite a while to realize he was speaking English. :-) While his statement sounds outrageous ,

I think that is a somewhat standard rape defense. I wonder if he uses the same defense for acid attacks.....

Maybe in India, but that is not the standard rape defense in civilized cultures. His statement is a reflection of a cultural issue wherein it apparently is okay to forceably rape or gang rape a women if you have the subjective belief that she deserves it.

A defense is they did not do it or she consented.

OK, assuming the jury believes that the woman did deserve to be raped...how will they feel about murder? The woman did die as a result of the attack after all. Even in India, isn't murder of a female by several males considered bad?

Not my defense. I view such statement as conduct unbecoming of a lawyer. I assume he believes that no self respecting woman would ever be in a position to have a metal rod shoved into her with sufficient force to cause internal damage and lacerations to her intestines resulting in sepsis, septic shock and systematic organ shut down.