"..60 Tourists Die Per Month, On Motorbikes In Koh Samui."

[TheOggMonster]

Come on everyone, lets just remember where we live. These stats could well be true.

[LaoPo]

Come on everyone, lets just remember where we live. These stats could well be true.

Hmmm....I'm not sure if that's meant sarcastic or honest or a quote from someone else?

I've heard it before -many many times- but all criticasters always criticize everything and all statistics but they never come with numbers themselves.

"First half of 2012 arrivals at Samui Airport recorded

455,778 passengers with 92% coming from domestic

flights"

From: http://www.c9hotelwo...ate-2012-08.pdf

That number is exclusive ferry passengers.

But, a number of 1 million tourists for 2012 to Samui is not unreasonable.

But, 720 deaths per 1 million tourists/year like robsamui claims is VERY unlikely.

[LaoPo]

ATTENTION PLEASE: A MUST READ REPORT!

OK, maybe I can shed some light in the darkness about the number of deaths in traffic in Thailand (and thus also on Koh Samui which data below show it's indeed absurd and totally exaggerated what Samui is concerned):

Traffic Accident Statistics for Thailand

The data come from the WHO and it seems that the number of deaths are declining over the years from 1999 to 2010 (estimate) with a peak in 2003 with a total of 14,446 traffic deaths:

The estimate for 2010 was 13.9 deaths/100,000/year coming to a total for Thailand of 9,446 deaths in traffic in 2010 as an estimation

"Deaths/100,000/year and actual number of deaths in Thailand from 1999 till 2010. The numbers for 2010 are preliminary. Possibly contrary to intuition, there is a steady decline in deaths over the last few years, and the peak of deaths/100,000/year appears to have occurred in 2003. After all, the reasons for accidents can be determined or at least presumed, and when sufficient data are collected, it surely must be possible to take corrective actions"

DATA from: http://www.thaiwebsi...araccidents.asp

OK, let the bickering and disbelieve begin...BUT, if you do, READ THE LINK FIRST and come up with facts, not just comments without giving clear links and facts.

[lom]

The first thing to take into account when using statistic based on population/year is that the population lives here for the whole year and not only a few weeks of the year.

1 million tourists per year is not a figure of interest until you know how long time the average tourist spends here and then you furthermore have to take into account the number of tourists who don't drive on the roads themselves.

The new type of tourist, the Asian package tourist who rarely leaves the resort and when he does then he goes as passenger in a minibus.

60 tourist per month killed in traffic accidents is not a reasonable figure, it is such an exaggeration that you have to be very gullible if you believe in it.

I would guess that a low figure of 5 and a high figure of 20 (depending on month) and an average of 10 is much closer to the truth. That is for all vehicle types and not only motorbikes...

Edited January 12, 2013 by lom

[insertmembernamehere]

As a friend says, "Never argue facts; just look them up."

Some enterprising fellow could (if this person could speak and read Thai) just do some investigating in the right offices and find the figures. The five big hospitals might be a good start.

My own two cents: I drive quite a lot on the roads in Samui and have for some years and very rarely see what appears to be a fatality or "coming on to a death" on the roads. Maybe I am blessed, but what I do see, and can see the results of, are road mishaps that could contribute to a casualty number. Bandaged arm or leg, split on a finger, etal. (A word of explanation: Many people think the word "casualty" equates to a death -- it doesn't. "One injured or killed in an accident," is the definition.)

I could almost believe 60 boo-boos on the road a month, but not deaths.

By the way, this idea of equating tourist numbers with injuries or deaths is flawed. Of the total number of people who enter Samui each year, how many actually even get on a bike (or rent a car)? Fifty percent? Thirty percent? Less? Many never rent a bike (and children with their parents don't) and even those who do often rent one bike for a couple.

I think Samui is a somewhat hazardous place to drive for all the reasons we all know, but as far as being some kind of "Kill Zone" of the motoring world....hardly.

[stiggy]

I worked in the past for some of the hospital groups on Samui for over 5 years. I still work with them today in part as we advise for a specialised insurance company.

Ref Tourist Quote 60 Accidents per month: requiring inpatient hospitalisation I can easily believe

60 Tourist deaths a month absolutely not

Amount of tourists requiring treatment of scrapes etc from clinics over the islands probably 100s over a month.

[Rooo]

The thread by spidermike is absolute rubbish , same as all his threads about Samui. Sure there is deaths on samui, but really, 60 a month & tourists at that?

[samuibeachcomber]

statistics and figures are a politicians dream as they can be twisted and distorted to assert anyones argument.

60 deaths a month from accidents could be possible,its 2 deaths a day and would not be exessive for the whole island,but i would have thought it coud n't just mean 60 accidents a month surely.I would have thought 5 accidents a day too low a tally.

Samui is a crazy place to ride a bike,you have to be so on your guard looking out for crazy riders,taxis,people movers and heavy trucks,but its probably no more crazy than phuket or pattaya.

And yet to get around the place quickly its a great way to travel.Yes a car is much safer yet so so slow.

[robsamui]

Come on everyone, lets just remember where we live. These stats could well be true.

Hmmm....I'm not sure if that's meant sarcastic or honest or a quote from someone else?

I've heard it before -many many times- but all criticasters always criticize everything and all statistics but they never come with numbers themselves.

"First half of 2012 arrivals at Samui Airport recorded

455,778 passengers with 92% coming from domestic

flights"

From: http://www.c9hotelwo...ate-2012-08.pdf

That number is exclusive ferry passengers.

But, a number of 1 million tourists for 2012 to Samui is not unreasonable.

But, 720 deaths per 1 million tourists/year like robsamui claims is VERY unlikely.

The international standard for measuring road deaths is to state the calculated deaths per each million per of the population per year. This reduces the statistics from one country to another, to a comparable unit which is relative to each country.

It has nothing at all to do with how many arrivals are recorded by BKK Airways!.

One problem is that Samui does not actually have a "population". Other than the 50,000+ registered Thais here there is no accurate way to measure how many people are on the island at any given time.

The only possible way to estimate the "deaths per million" is to assume that with 1.2 million visitors a year, Samui has an average of 100,000 tourists each month. Add that to the 50,000 residents. Add to that an unknown number of Thai workers who are not registered and who have come here to work - there must be thousands and thousands of them - at least another 50,000. Add to that an unknown number of Burmese construction workers - and I can't even begin to guess at a number here.

Sol let's assume that the average population of Samui is 200,000. If only 1 person dies on the roads each month that's 12 deaths a year. Per million of the population we have to multiply these 12 deaths by five, as there are only 200,000 residents. That works out to 60 deaths per million in one year. But that is only with one death a month.

The official figures state 3 death a month on average, including Thai people. So that is 180 deaths per million. But 3 deaths a month only include those who lie dead on the road, not those who die later as a result of their injuries. So let's be really kind to the Authorities and say they are covering it up by only 50% and there are really twice as many fatalities.

That would mean there are therefore 360 deaths per million per year on Samui.

WHO 2007 figures:

Germany: 60 per million per year.

UK: 54

USA: 139

Australia: 78

Thailand overall: 196

Samui: 360

http://gamapserver.w...ths2/atlas.html PLEASE NOTE THIS IS PER 100,000

So I have to admit to being wrong - Samui is not the worst in the world after all. Liberia, Eritrea and Egypt all have over 400 killed per million per year.

I's better here than I thought. Good oh!

But that is only reckoning on six dead every month. Personally I think it is double that, if you count the ones who die in hospital later.

Which brings us to a figure of at least 720 per million per year - or even more!

Rob

Edited January 12, 2013 by robsamui

[robsamui]

ATTENTION PLEASE: A MUST READ REPORT!

OK, maybe I can shed some light in the darkness about the number of deaths in traffic in Thailand (and thus also on Koh Samui which data below show it's indeed absurd and totally exaggerated what Samui is concerned):

Traffic Accident Statistics for Thailand

The data come from the WHO and it seems that the number of deaths are declining over the years from 1999 to 2010 (estimate) with a peak in 2003 with a total of 14,446 traffic deaths:

The estimate for 2010 was 13.9 deaths/100,000/year coming to a total for Thailand of 9,446 deaths in traffic in 2010 as an estimation

"Deaths/100,000/year and actual number of deaths in Thailand from 1999 till 2010. The numbers for 2010 are preliminary. Possibly contrary to intuition, there is a steady decline in deaths over the last few years, and the peak of deaths/100,000/year appears to have occurred in 2003. After all, the reasons for accidents can be determined or at least presumed, and when sufficient data are collected, it surely must be possible to take corrective actions"

DATA from: http://www.thaiwebsi...araccidents.asp

OK, let the bickering and disbelieve begin...BUT, if you do, READ THE LINK FIRST and come up with facts, not just comments without giving clear links and facts.

I agree with these figures from the WHO - but they are per 100,000, not per million.

Per million that is 139 killed in Thailand, compared to 50 in the UK and 60 in Germany

But Thailand isn't Samui!

As you said - go on the facts. On the facts issued by the Thai authorities, Samui starts the score at 360 per million per year, based on 3 deaths a month. 25 dead in one year would make that 250 killed per million. BUT THAT DOESN'T COUNT ANYONE WHO DIES LATER AS A RESULT OF THEIR INJURIES, which all the First World countries are compelled to disclose and include in their totals!

R

Edited January 12, 2013 by robsamui

[nima]

Hmmm, I just called it off, I would rent one soon when I get in Samui. It's a life high-risk.

Edited January 12, 2013 by nima

[robsamui]

Once speaking to an officer in phuket at the police station there , he commented there was on average 5 deaths per day , 150 a month in phuket , so 60 in samui could be about right if they include deaths in hospital and after the crash

Some days in samui , on a short drive I coul pass upto 3 crashes , and that is in a 3 km radius in 10 mins

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

The Authorities (Govt/Police) stopped counting later deaths sometime a little after 2000. Before this time they were included and I recall back in 1998 there were regularly 20-something deaths each month - although I'm unable to prove this as there seem to be no archives available. Now I know for a fact that only those actually lying dead on the road with a white chalkmark round them are counted as a "road fatality" .

Somewhere in the early 2000s the figures suddenly dropped overnight down to only 2 or 3 killed a month - and these "official" figures have remained unchanged over the last 10+ years, in spite of the population having doubled and the volume of traffic having increased by a factor of five.

TIS

R

Edited January 12, 2013 by robsamui

[robsamui]

In the five years I have now lived in Thailand, (plus several trips before) I have never witnessed an accident that involved a death and can probably count on two hands the number of accidents I have seen, involving the usual scrapes.. or perhaps broken arm or leg...

Right now, with a lot of dry sand on the roads, one needs to be wary of these patches... they can be very slippery... extra caution needed...

You must not get out much jimmy , in 7 years I have driven past maybe 100 crashes , maybe 10 fatal , and was never even on the roads a lot

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I think Jim is in bed by 10. o ' clock - it's that teddy bear that does it!

The best I saw was in Mae Nam at 2.00 am. The road was empty and In the silence we heard the sound of two screaming scooters and glanced towards the road. Two Thai youths coming from opposite directions at high speed towards each other - on an empty road in good streetlighting - head on collision. I can list a dozen others like this, including one kid in the dark on an unlit road with no lights on his bike . . . etc etc etc

R

Edited January 12, 2013 by robsamui

[robsamui]

Just another penny's worth -

WHATEVER the viability of the figures -

Check on how many people are killed on the roads in BKK - a city of 6 or 7 million ( - and the rest - 8/9 million?)

Then compare that per head to whatever official figures you can find from Samui.

Samui might 'officially' admit to 3 a month - with a fluctuating population of no more than a max of 100,000 (?)

That's 30 deaths per million. - actually 360

That's 240+ 360 deaths a month year compared to BKK's 30 100 (based on 700 killed per 7 million population)

Even if you go on the official and dubious figures then that's 360% more deaths here than in BKK.

(See SBK here on BKK - http://www.thaivisa....ity-statistics/)

Nuff said!

R

Sorry fellas - this was written in haste and from rapid (faulty) memory. Apologies.

Corrected stats in red.

R

Edited January 12, 2013 by robsamui

[tingtongtourist]

If you talk about the farangs who go to Samui, is it just coincidence that these tradgedys do happen to be in the same place that have the reputation for the notorious beach party?

All sorts of drugs and alcohol easy to get and fools who party on all night and day

Seems many people come unstuck due to their own doing, cannot blame Thailand, except maybe to say...

"Thailand... the hub of gene pool correction"

[robsamui]

If you talk about the farangs who go to Samui, is it just coincidence that these tradgedys do happen to be in the same place that have the reputation for the notorious beach party?

All sorts of drugs and alcohol easy to get and fools who party on all night and day

Seems many people come unstuck due to their own doing, cannot blame Thailand, except maybe to say...

"Thailand... the hub of gene pool correction"

What does this have to do with the subject of the post - road deaths on Samui?

Your point is . . .?

R

[tingtongtourist]

If you talk about the farangs who go to Samui, is it just coincidence that these tradgedys do happen to be in the same place that have the reputation for the notorious beach party?

All sorts of drugs and alcohol easy to get and fools who party on all night and day

Seems many people come unstuck due to their own doing, cannot blame Thailand, except maybe to say...

"Thailand... the hub of gene pool correction"

What does this have to do with the subject of the post - road deaths on Samui?

Your point is . . .?

R

This is so "not news". I have heard that as many as 60 tourists die PER MONTH, on motorbikes in Koh Samui. It remains the most lawless land in Thailand. The police talk about the helmet laws, and all they do is collect tea money once per month, at their monthly fund raising roadblocks. No concern for safety, whatsoever. Lip service whenever these deaths are publicized, but the fabulously timid Samui Gazette, and Samui Express will not report about these deaths, nor with the Bangkok Post, or the Nation, since they are highly censored. So, it remains a big secret that I found about from my friends at Samui Rescue. Whenever I go to the hospital, I see many bike injuries. No one really knows how many are injured every month, but the mixture of drinking while driving, lack of motorbike skills, the unlicensed 10 year olds riding motorbikes (that the toy police refuse to do anything about) and the young men (boys really) that drive like kamikazes, plus the central governments absolute refusal to put any priority on the completion of the main road in Samui (the ring road), make Samui a very toxic mix, when it comes to driver safety.

I would say many (if not most) of these accident especially with farang on bikes are alcohol related,. Dont think anyone would dispute this.

My point is that these people who make this decision to party,do drugs and drink and drive/ride, who sometime will manage to do all four at the same time, make for their own demise more so than the bad road condition

[Boater]

As per the above post , yes the papers are censorsered , which is a shame , I still recall the owner of the samui express was threaten by the police when they wanted tonpublish photos of kevins death a couple of years back , they did a good investigation and had photos of his bodynto prove he was attacked and showed the defense marks on his hand to prove he wasnbeaten to death then dumped inmthe lake , but the owner saw there lifemwas more valuable then proving a murder

Back on topic , the original op is incorrect of the forigne death statistics , that we all know , but in whole the death rate could be correct , but no one will really know as they hide the figures

As rob , myself and a few others here that spend a few hours of the day on the road wil, know 60 deaths a month , including those who die in hosptiatl could be correct , remember e island is bigger then Bophut and lamai ! , plus most deaths occur during the night due to drink driving when most Thaivisa members are tucked up in bed and don't witness the carnage on the roads in the wee hours

I would bet a lot of money to the people that don't believe the stats , gomout one night between 11pm - 3 am and in bet you wil, see at least 4 crashes , and 1 death ... Plus Likley you will be involved in a few near miss us yourself

[Boater]

Just one more point to make, with saynthe uk death toll , a lot of deaths are due to weather conditions , ie heavy fog, black ice , snow , and rain .....

During the summer here , the roads are generally fine ... But come winter , there are a lot of crashes ... Which say samui doesn't suffer from this , ie a majority of crashes in samui are from drunk driving , say 80% compared with maybe 5% in uk

If samui ever wanted to bring there figures down , all they would need to do is implement a drink driving campaign ,

[robsamui]

If you talk about the farangs who go to Samui, is it just coincidence that these tradgedys do happen to be in the same place that have the reputation for the notorious beach party?

All sorts of drugs and alcohol easy to get and fools who party on all night and day

Seems many people come unstuck due to their own doing, cannot blame Thailand, except maybe to say...

"Thailand... the hub of gene pool correction"

What does this have to do with the subject of the post - road deaths on Samui?

Your point is . . .?

R

This is so "not news". I have heard that as many as 60 tourists die PER MONTH, on motorbikes in Koh Samui. It remains the most lawless land in Thailand. The police talk about the helmet laws, and all they do is collect tea money once per month, at their monthly fund raising roadblocks. No concern for safety, whatsoever. Lip service whenever these deaths are publicized, but the fabulously timid Samui Gazette, and Samui Express will not report about these deaths, nor with the Bangkok Post, or the Nation, since they are highly censored. So, it remains a big secret that I found about from my friends at Samui Rescue. Whenever I go to the hospital, I see many bike injuries. No one really knows how many are injured every month, but the mixture of drinking while driving, lack of motorbike skills, the unlicensed 10 year olds riding motorbikes (that the toy police refuse to do anything about) and the young men (boys really) that drive like kamikazes, plus the central governments absolute refusal to put any priority on the completion of the main road in Samui (the ring road), make Samui a very toxic mix, when it comes to driver safety.

I would say many (if not most) of these accident especially with farang on bikes are alcohol related,. Dont think anyone would dispute this.

My point is that these people who make this decision to party,do drugs and drink and drive/ride, who sometime will manage to do all four at the same time, make for their own demise more so than the bad road condition

Totally agree with the parts highlighted above.

I would also add that the day-to-day accidents which result in minor or no injuries are nearly all Thai, due to the way they drive and their (lack of) knowledge and (utter lack of) awareness of the road. And there must be literally a hundred a day of these - little ones where the police aren't even needed.

After 10:00 pm there are few honest hardworking road-dumb drivers around. And that's where the alcohol-related figures kick in.

R

[robsamui]

Just one more point to make, with saynthe uk death toll , a lot of deaths are due to weather conditions , ie heavy fog, black ice , snow , and rain .....

During the summer here , the roads are generally fine ... But come winter , there are a lot of crashes ... Which say samui doesn't suffer from this , ie a majority of crashes in samui are from drunk driving , say 80% compared with maybe 5% in uk

If samui ever wanted to bring there figures down , all they would need to do is implement a drink driving campaign ,

Never mind just the alcohol, check for licences also. No licence, vehicle impounded until licence produced, like they do with motorbikes - never mind just a spot fine. One week of that and the roads would be just about empty and the accident figures would plummet. (And all the commerce and industry on Samui would grind to a halt, too.)

How many countries in the world freely allow people driving around, not having passed a test and with no licence?

The downside is that all the police would have to get licences themselves first - and that would take forever.

R

Edited January 12, 2013 by robsamui

[robsamui]

Just one more point to make, with saynthe uk death toll , a lot of deaths are due to weather conditions , ie heavy fog, black ice , snow , and rain .....

During the summer here , the roads are generally fine ... But come winter , there are a lot of crashes ... Which say samui doesn't suffer from this , ie a majority of crashes in samui are from drunk driving , say 80% compared with maybe 5% in uk

If samui ever wanted to bring there figures down , all they would need to do is implement a drink driving campaign ,

Never mind just the alcohol, check for licences also. No licence, vehicle impounded until licence produced, like they do with motorbikes - never mind just a spot fine. One week of that and the roads would be just about empty and the accident figures would plummet. (And all the commerce and industry on Samui would grind to a halt, too.)

How many countries in the world freely allow driving around not having passed a test and with no licence?

The downside is that all the police would have to get licences themselves first - and that would take forever.

R

Chuckle chuckle - just to add on to what I said above, anyone else remember this?

Six or seven years ago a new and cocky police chief took over on Samui and his opening public statement was reported in Community magazine - but in Thai only, with no translation.- most unusual.

Why Glyn did this was because of what he said overall. But one of the head BIB's points was that the high rate of road accidents here was entirely all the fault of the farangs, as they had no idea how to drive (Yes - he actually stated that in public.) He then added lunacy to stupidity by publicly by emphasising the point with . . . "even a ten year-old Thai boy knows how to drive a truck!"

Anyone remember this? I know the ex-staff of Community might remember - they were the ones who reported it and didn't want to let the farangs know what they were up against!

Hooooooooooooo!

R

Edited January 12, 2013 by robsamui

[limbos]

Night of 28th to 29th December, around 1pm, pretty much in front of our house. During 11 years of living at this location, the 2nd deathly accident within a few hundred meters of our house and a few non fatal accidents.

I do see more and more serious accidents around Samui, a lot more compared to 10 or 14 years ago, although i find it hard to believe that 60 tourists die per month due to motorbike accidents.

Edited January 12, 2013 by limbos

[robsamui]

]

Night of 28th to 29th December, around 1pm, pretty much in front of our house. During 11 years of living at this location, the 2nd deathly accident within a few hundred meters of our house and a few non fatal accidents.

I do see more and more serious accidents around Samui, a lot more compared to 10 or 14 years ago, although i find it hard to believe that 60 tourists die per month due to motorbike accidents.

60 tourists don't die.

Spend a few minutes actually reading the posts and the figures provided, Mr H.

R

Edited January 12, 2013 by robsamui

[BangrakBob]

Come on everyone, lets just remember where we live. These stats could well be true.

Hmmm....I'm not sure if that's meant sarcastic or honest or a quote from someone else?

LaoPo you just need to look at the profile pic, Alan Partridge very much in character....A-HAAA

Edited January 12, 2013 by BangrakBob

[LaoPo]

Come on everyone, lets just remember where we live. These stats could well be true.

Hmmm....I'm not sure if that's meant sarcastic or honest or a quote from someone else?

LaoPo you just need to look at the profile pic, Alan Partridge very much in character....A-HAAA

I don't get it but I'm NOT Steve Coogan, nor British nor a British comedian

I know, that's quite stupid but I can't help it.

[evadgib]

Just one more point to make, with saynthe uk death toll , a lot of deaths are due to weather conditions , ie heavy fog, black ice , snow , and rain .....

During the summer here , the roads are generally fine ... But come winter , there are a lot of crashes ... Which say samui doesn't suffer from this , ie a majority of crashes in samui are from drunk driving , say 80% compared with maybe 5% in uk

If samui ever wanted to bring there figures down , all they would need to do is implement a drink driving campaign ,

Never mind just the alcohol, check for licences also. No licence, vehicle impounded until licence produced, like they do with motorbikes - never mind just a spot fine. One week of that and the roads would be just about empty and the accident figures would plummet. (And all the commerce and industry on Samui would grind to a halt, too.)

How many countries in the world freely allow driving around not having passed a test and with no licence?

The downside is that all the police would have to get licences themselves first - and that would take forever.

R

Chuckle chuckle - just to add on to what I said above, anyone else remember this?

Six or seven years ago a new and cocky police chief took over on Samui and his opening public statement was reported in Community magazine - but in Thai only, with no translation.- most unusual.

Why Glyn did this was because of what he said overall. But one of the head BIB's points was that the high rate of road accidents here was entirely all the fault of the farangs, as they had no idea how to drive (Yes - he actually stated that in public.) He then added lunacy to stupidity by publicly by emphasising the point with . . . "even a ten year-old Thai boy knows how to drive a truck!"

Anyone remember this? I know the ex-staff of Community might remember - they were the ones who reported it and didn't want to let the farangs know what they were up against!

Hooooooooooooo!

R

I'm tempted to upload footage recorded yesterday on my dashcam showing a Thai boy with no licence, lights or helmet on my side of the road having crossed the thick yellow line at speed in order to overtake several cars @ Hua Thanon.......on childrens day!

Edited January 13, 2013 by evadgib

[Tropicalevo]

I'm tempted to upload footage recorded yesterday on my dashcam showing a Thai boy with no licence, lights or helmet on my side of the road having crossed the thick yellow line at speed in order to overtake several cars @ Hua Thanon.......on childrens day!

I know how you feel. Sadly we would fill the TV server if we all did that.

[PoorSucker]

This is so "not news". I have heard that as many as 60 tourists die PER MONTH, on motorbikes in Koh Samui.

Here-say, please read stiggys post.

[PoorSucker]

Look on it from the other side.

If there was two dead tourists per day, there would not be anyone renting out motorbikes.

A dead tourist means that the renter will not get any money for he's wrecked bike.