Thais And Thainess

[SteeleJoe]

Thats not a Christian school !....as suggested elsewhere, if you can afford it, pay the fine and move on... protect your wife...

Paying the fine simply encourages exploitation and victimisation.

Putting a stop to such practices requires that people stand up and say enough is enough!

It takes a lot of courage for one person to do that, but if the teachers all stand up together, the bully will not prevail.

I am sure that the parents of the children are not exactly happy about the high turnover of teachers. If they all stand against the tyrant and make the parents aware of what is happening, they will be a strong force.

You will not likely "win" in such a situation. If they were successful in forcing the Director (or her superiors?) to back down in any dramatic way, they would most likely not be able to continue working there (termination is not necessarily why: there are myriad ways it could be made intolerable and still be legal); a Pyrrhic victory is probably the best they could hope for...unless they were hoping to make things better for future employees and/or simply strike a blow for social justice.

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[Humbugged]

So you're saying Thainess = Mugs.

A recent version of Thainess....mother sells raped 13yo daughter to rapist for 2000b....with smile on face

[loong]

Thats not a Christian school !....as suggested elsewhere, if you can afford it, pay the fine and move on... protect your wife...

Paying the fine simply encourages exploitation and victimisation.

Putting a stop to such practices requires that people stand up and say enough is enough!

It takes a lot of courage for one person to do that, but if the teachers all stand up together, the bully will not prevail.

I am sure that the parents of the children are not exactly happy about the high turnover of teachers. If they all stand against the tyrant and make the parents aware of what is happening, they will be a strong force.

You will not likely "win" in such a situation. If they were successful in forcing the Director (or her superiors?) to back down in any dramatic way, they would most likely not be able to continue working there (termination is not necessarily why: there are myriad ways it could be made intolerable and still be legal); a Pyrrhic victory is probably the best they could hope for...unless they were hoping to make things better for future employees and/or simply strike a blow for social justice.

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You will note that I said that the teachers have to stand together. The director would not and could not dare fire all the teachers. No teachers, means no school, pupils pulled out by their parents and no revenue.

[chrisinth]

Personally I don't think the OP has anything to do with "Thai-ness" at all. It is about an individual (or individuals) caught up in a corrupt private school.

As some posters have stated, the choices are to pay the penalty stated in the contract and move on, stay as they are or fight it in a legal fashion. The reality of those choices is that none of them are simple.

IMHO, the only place "Thai-ness" would enter into it would be going down the legal pathway..........................

[MiG16]

Regardless of what their contract says, the labour law takes precedence. So remember that and study the contract versus the labour law. Anything that's not in order you can call the school up on it.

Having said that, I dont know if the new minimum salary range have been written into law.

Eventually though, it is up to your wife to decide whether she is prepared to take a risk. Cos whether she quits, complains about the situation or take other course, it seems like a lookout for a new job is in order.

All the best

[utalkin2me]

In my opinion, Thais get what they deserve. The average Thai refuses to complain and put up and sort of formal "stink" in these situations, and the cumulative effect is that they get screwed hard over and over again. Speak up, protect your rights, be prepared to take some blows, but don't complain when you are just constantly rolling with the punches, which is what I see Thais doing. To the op though, I just simply would not let my wife work there, it isn't worth the headache. Pulling in enough for both of you should be the goal at this point.

[SteeleJoe]

Thats not a Christian school !....as suggested elsewhere, if you can afford it, pay the fine and move on... protect your wife...

Paying the fine simply encourages exploitation and victimisation.

Putting a stop to such practices requires that people stand up and say enough is enough!

It takes a lot of courage for one person to do that, but if the teachers all stand up together, the bully will not prevail.

I am sure that the parents of the children are not exactly happy about the high turnover of teachers. If they all stand against the tyrant and make the parents aware of what is happening, they will be a strong force.

You will not likely "win" in such a situation. If they were successful in forcing the Director (or her superiors?) to back down in any dramatic way, they would most likely not be able to continue working there (termination is not necessarily why: there are myriad ways it could be made intolerable and still be legal); a Pyrrhic victory is probably the best they could hope for...unless they were hoping to make things better for future employees and/or simply strike a blow for social justice.

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You will note that I said that the teachers have to stand together. The director would not and could not dare fire all the teachers. No teachers, means no school, pupils pulled out by their parents and no revenue.

You will note that I specifically said she need not terminate people. Whether through my fault or your own, you've not understood my post.

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Edited January 13, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

In my opinion, Thais get what they deserve. The average Thai refuses to complain and put up and sort of formal "stink" in these situations, and the cumulative effect is that they get screwed hard over and over again. Speak up, protect your rights, be prepared to take some blows, but don't complain when you are just constantly rolling with the punches, which is what I see Thais doing. To the op though, I just simply would not let my wife work there, it isn't worth the headache. Pulling in enough for both of you should be the goal at this point.

There is some truth in this and it's not far from what I considered writing - but couldn't summon sufficient ambition or interest - and why to some extent (among other things) the OP does indeed offer an example of "Thainess" - on the part of the employees and in terms of the dynamic often seen (not necessarily in such an unjust extremes) between employer and employee.

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Edited January 13, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[loong]

Paying the fine simply encourages exploitation and victimisation.

Putting a stop to such practices requires that people stand up and say enough is enough!

It takes a lot of courage for one person to do that, but if the teachers all stand up together, the bully will not prevail.

I am sure that the parents of the children are not exactly happy about the high turnover of teachers. If they all stand against the tyrant and make the parents aware of what is happening, they will be a strong force

You will not likely "win" in such a situation. If they were successful in forcing the Director (or her superiors?) to back down in any dramatic way, they would most likely not be able to continue working there (termination is not necessarily why: there are myriad ways it could be made intolerable and still be legal); a Pyrrhic victory is probably the best they could hope for...unless they were hoping to make things better for future employees and/or simply strike a blow for social justice.

You will note that I said that the teachers have to stand together. The director would not and could not dare fire all the teachers. No teachers, means no school, pupils pulled out by their parents and no revenue.

You will note that I specifically said she need not terminate people. Whether through my fault or your own, you've not understood my post

.

I apologise for my misunderstanding of your post and re-reading it I can see what you mean.

Yes there are ways that the employer can make it difficult for the "ringleader" or spokesperson. That is when it is even more important that everone stand together, because if the one with the loudest voice is forced out, the others will probably crumble in turn.

But then again if there is only a core group of 3 teachers and all the rest leave after a few weeks or month, if that core group dropped to 2, I am sure that the parents will have something to say. I'm equally sure that the employer must realise this.

[SteeleJoe]

I apologise for my misunderstanding of your post and re-reading it I can see what you mean.

Yes there are ways that the employer can make it difficult for the "ringleader" or spokesperson. That is when it is even more important that everone stand together, because if the one with the loudest voice is forced out, the others will probably crumble in turn.

But then again if there is only a core group of 3 teachers and all the rest leave after a few weeks or month, if that core group dropped to 2, I am sure that the parents will have something to say. I'm equally sure that the employer must realise this.

No worries. It's probably at least partly my fault - if I'm going to comment I should fully explicate my position in some detail and with some sort of effort at support but I couldn't be bothered...and as of right now, still can't!

(Lazy Sunday evening...)

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[lovelomsak]

I feel I must not be able to say things properly here. For I keep reading posts stating I should get her out of the school and end the problem. I tried to point out earlier and failed it would seem, that my wife doesnot want to leave because of her age and ability to find another teaching job. I should add also she feels its " better the devil you know than the devil you donot know".By that I mean she feels another job may have the same or more problems. So she stays where she is established and known and can watch her students grow and learn over a period of time.She loves her students and she feels she can watch them develop and grow at the school she teachs at. The school is expanding and the students can perhaps stay in the school till the graduate from mattyom 6. She knows each child and would be so proud to see past students graduate and feel she was a part of their learning.Right now the school goes to pratum 3 but every year adds another level as the students move up. So quitting is out of the question for her and I support in her choice.This thread was meant to be more about how thais really treat others,even of their own country.

[muythai2013]

your wife agreed to it when she sighned the contract, its not thainess whatever that is, its foolishness on the teachers part for working there.

genious on the schools part because they are pulling it off.

Sure its not racist?

no its rascist not racist, point out one of my spelling mistakes before all the gramma police launch their assault, is it their or there.

racist

rac·ist

noun

1.

a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others.

adjective

2.

of or like racists or racism: racist policies; racist attitudes.

from dictionary .com

i know its spelt r.a.c.i.s.t. in your attempt to look so smart you kind of missed the point.

did you miss the set up, that is why I wrote the part about the grmma police

[HeijoshinCool]

Amazing!

If what the OP posts about the conditions that his wife is working in is true - it's somehow his fault??

No its his wifes fault.

I read an advert in Thai the other day, Central sales staff, 12-15k per month.

The OPs wife should just walk and then let the school try and take her to court.

Jeez, there are girls working in factories being paid more than this.

What difference does it make whose fault is is, other than to raise the low self-esteem of the finger pointer?

The OP is looking for a solution, not a pointing finger.

[SteeleJoe]

Amazing!

If what the OP posts about the conditions that his wife is working in is true - it's somehow his fault??

No its his wifes fault.

I read an advert in Thai the other day, Central sales staff, 12-15k per month.

The OPs wife should just walk and then let the school try and take her to court.

Jeez, there are girls working in factories being paid more than this.

What difference does it make whose fault is is, other than to raise the low self-esteem of the finger pointer?

The OP is looking for a solution, not a pointing finger.

Actually, no. He didn't ask for a solution, he presented it as an example of "Thainess".

As such, people are not unreasonable to opine on where blame may lie rather than the Thai culture or a general Thai way of doing things - or indeed which side (teachers or administration), in their opinion, is displaying a true or better example of "Thainess".

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[HeijoshinCool]

Amazing!

If what the OP posts about the conditions that his wife is working in is true - it's somehow his fault??

No its his wifes fault.

I read an advert in Thai the other day, Central sales staff, 12-15k per month.

The OPs wife should just walk and then let the school try and take her to court.

Jeez, there are girls working in factories being paid more than this.

What difference does it make whose fault is is, other than to raise the low self-esteem of the finger pointer?

The OP is looking for a solution, not a pointing finger.

Actually, no. He didn't ask for a solution, he presented it as an example of "Thainess".

As such, people are not unreasonable to opine on where blame may lie rather than the Thai culture or a general Thai way of doing things - or indeed which side (teachers or administration), in their opinion, is displaying a true or better example of "Thainess".

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I did not claim the OP "asked for a solution," I said he was looking for one. Members with problems as bad as this one, you think they don't want a solution?

[SteeleJoe]

I did not claim the OP "asked for a solution," I said he was looking for one. Members with problems as bad as this one, you think they don't want a solution?

No, you did not claim he asked for a solution nor did I say that you did. You just made the claim that he was looking for one, as if it were fact, despite no indication that that was so. He explained the purpose of the OP (more than once, if I recall) and rejected any ideas put forth - which is his right of course and he has his reasons, which he stated.

Again - if his OP was meant to show an example of "Thainess", as he clearly stated it was, people have a right to opine on how true that it is and, if it is true, in what way.

That's all I'm saying. It's a fact - but not something I care enough about to argue.

EDIT: Just realized I didn't answer the question:

I'm not going to express an opinion on anything other than THIS member and this OP. I'm not interested in putting words into his mouth or ascribing intentions to him that he made no indication of having. As it happens, I have no strong opinion on whether he wants a solution or not though I'd assume if he did, he might have asked for one. In any case, I don't feel obligated to assume anything other than what he said the OP is about is indeed what it is about or to make a response to anything other than what he posted rather than something that I have to take as given.

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Edited January 14, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[HeijoshinCool]

I did not claim the OP "asked for a solution," I said he was looking for one. Members with problems as bad as this one, you think they don't want a solution?

No, you did not claim he asked for a solution nor did I say that you did. You just made the claim that he was looking for one, as if it were fact, despite no indication that that was so. He explained the purpose of the OP (more than once, if I recall) and rejected any ideas put forth - which is his right of course and he has his reasons, which he stated.

Again - if his OP was meant to show an example of "Thainess", as he clearly stated it was, people have a right to opine on how true that it is and, if it is true, in what way.

That's all I'm saying. It's a fact - but not something I care enough about to argue.

EDIT: Just realized I didn't answer the question:

I'm not going to express an opinion on anything other than THIS member and this OP. I'm not interested in putting words into his mouth or ascribing intentions to him that he made no indication of having. As it happens, I have no strong opinion on whether he wants a solution or not though I'd assume if he did, he might have asked for one. In any case, I don't feel obligated to assume anything other than what he said the OP is about is indeed what it is about or to make a response to anything other than what he posted rather than something that I have to take as given.

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Wow.

[SteeleJoe]

I did not claim the OP "asked for a solution," I said he was looking for one. Members with problems as bad as this one, you think they don't want a solution?

No, you did not claim he asked for a solution nor did I say that you did. You just made the claim that he was looking for one, as if it were fact, despite no indication that that was so. He explained the purpose of the OP (more than once, if I recall) and rejected any ideas put forth - which is his right of course and he has his reasons, which he stated.

Again - if his OP was meant to show an example of "Thainess", as he clearly stated it was, people have a right to opine on how true that it is and, if it is true, in what way.

That's all I'm saying. It's a fact - but not something I care enough about to argue.

EDIT: Just realized I didn't answer the question:

I'm not going to express an opinion on anything other than THIS member and this OP. I'm not interested in putting words into his mouth or ascribing intentions to him that he made no indication of having. As it happens, I have no strong opinion on whether he wants a solution or not though I'd assume if he did, he might have asked for one. In any case, I don't feel obligated to assume anything other than what he said the OP is about is indeed what it is about or to make a response to anything other than what he posted rather than something that I have to take as given.

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Wow.

Yeah.

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Edited January 14, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[rgs2001uk]

Amazing!

If what the OP posts about the conditions that his wife is working in is true - it's somehow his fault??

No its his wifes fault.

I read an advert in Thai the other day, Central sales staff, 12-15k per month.

The OPs wife should just walk and then let the school try and take her to court.

Jeez, there are girls working in factories being paid more than this.

What difference does it make whose fault is is, other than to raise the low self-esteem of the finger pointer?

The OP is looking for a solution, not a pointing finger.

I dont know what the OP wants, from what I have read he hasnt asked for a solution.

other than to raise the low self-esteem of the finger pointer?

I dont know what this means, please explain.

I have no idea if the OPs wife has ever lived or worked abroad, mine has, it opened her eyes, lets just say she is now no longer some meek subservient afraid to question authority, and if she doesnt get a proper answer she will push it higher, Thai style.

The OPs wife is to be applauded for working and contributing, but there comes a point when you realise, someone is taking the piss, this is such a point.

[Terry Newman]

The government brought in a minimum teacher salary of over 11,800 baht a month. Well the school pays 7900 baht a month to the teachers but makes them sign the received the full 11,800 on payday telling them it will come in the future. They cannot quit because in their contract if the quit they must pay the school 50,000 baht.

I think that your wife signing a fake document to de-fraud her self of her rights is a bit of a problem here to go complaining about it.

​What did you seriously expect when you combined Thais, Money, and Mr Jesus with his imaginary friend ?

[ravip]

People sign this type of contract because they have no choice - NOT because they are stupid or mugs. It is just that they need a source of income to exist. This type of exploitation is rampant worldwide.

I wish I could quote some "Humanitarian" organisations that does worst things than this.

Yes, they do exist.

[utalkin2me]

You say they have no choice, I do agree to a certain extent, but people go out and have 2 kids by the time they are 22, and yes maybe they have no choice. Point: I think people do have a choice to fight back and not be abused and settle in somewhere, but they don't. They have 8 kids, need income and get fed instead. Just the way it is as you say I guess.

[Honkie]

Can OP tell whereabout is this school without actually naming names ??

[lovelomsak]

I just wanted all of you to know this post was simply a rant as I stated. I know there is no answer t the problem we see here.But I would like to thank one and all who did take the time to read the post and also the ones who replied to it. It was kind of the mods to let me rant and get away with it.So thank you mods.It was a rant and thats all I can say thank you.

[watcharacters]

Amazing!

If what the OP posts about the conditions that his wife is working in is true - it's somehow his fault??

Isn't that the TV way?

[cgphuket]

As far as the holiday thing goes, I have had the same treatment from foreign owned companies; you cant take Thai holidays because your not Thai (the thai staff get them off) and you cant take your holidays (western holidays) because this is Thailand and that's just another working day. ALL business owners make an art form of screwing over employees and it will continue until the revolution. Personally, I am investing in guillotine factories.

[PoodMaiDai]

Usually "Thainess" is just another face saving word for "abuse" or lack of personal responsibility.

Rarely do I see it have real merit.

[SteeleJoe]

Usually "Thainess" is just another face saving word for "abuse" or lack of personal responsibility.

Rarely do I see it have real merit.

Usually? Rarely?

Interesting. Can you cite some examples of instances you've seen where it is a face saving euphemism and doesn't have merit? Or even some of the rare instances when it does "have merit"?

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