I Have A Job... I Should Be Happy, But...

[pxlgirl]

Ok so this is going to be a bit of a whining post, it might get quite long, just to warn you. Ok, so where to start... I am a visual designer, a profession that is truly my passion or even a lifestyle. In order to tell the whole story, I'm going to try to be as diplomatic as possible and will avoid mentioning names publically, it might not turn out so well for me in case it gets tracked down to me. Anyways, my recent job used to be divided in 2 parts in the beginning, design was one of them. I had to drop the first part for quite serious reasons, and it was unclear if I'd be able to keep the job at all. Soon after I was told to resign, but then things turned around again and I could keep my job where I'd be working on design stuff only, with my salary cut down. I took the offer, and I felt sort of a relief that I could keep my wp and my visa wouldn't get cut.

All sounded well so far and I could finally take a deep breath, relax and focus on my job from now on. So I thought... But after a while a few weird things started to occur which I don't know how to handle. According to my contract, I had 10 days of paid vacation and was looking forward to take a day off on xmas and 2 days for new year. My plans got screwed after my boss told me that the days (it was 3 days when I was absent due to health problems and was given a paper from my doctor) are going to be deducted from my 10 days vacation, which all of a sudden would be the total amount of days I'm allowed to take off and be sick. But my contract said I have 15 days sick leave, independent from the vacation. Too bad I haven't thrown this little fact to my boss right away, but I was quite in shock that all my xmas plans went downhill. I still have 3 more doctors visits (these are only routine eye checks, but they are necessary in my case), god forbid I get a nasty cold with fever and would lose some days. Because the best part is, if I'd dare to exceed those 10 days, I'd be deducted from salary, which would make almost 1k per day...

Another thing which is quite annoying is the fact that my boss seems to expect from everyone to do (unpaid) overtime, no matter if the work is done or not. Ok, the unpaid part might be common in governmental academic facilities and staying a bit longer to finish something from time to time is not the issue here. It's very common in my field and I never had a problem with it. But why do I have to justify myself that I'm leaving home after 8h of work when I was done with my daily tasks anyway? I also have two 1 1/2 trips to work and back each day. I have actually agreed with my boss that I can come earlier or later (in case of the latter when I get stuck in a traffic jam) as long as I maintain my 8h at least. Yet there are a few people in the office who keep bitching about my working schedules for no reason, and they just don't (want/seem to) get it, keep "threatening" me to go to tell my boss. My boss however, like many Thais would rather avoid any kind of confrontation and their main interest is to keep their bunch "happy". Which means that any "complains" get right back to me, regardless what was agreed upon beforehand. What quite saddens me here is that I always finished all my tasks in time, I produced the best results possible (based on their current, not so professional design).

Last thing I want to mention is money, but I'm not quite sure if this is actually something to worry about, because I don't know if it is the right way how it's handled. So I agreed with my boss on a certain amount, but my salary record shows the total amount with 600 Baht less, deducting another 600 that is going for health insurance. I was told that the other 600 THB are for social security, but shouldn't that have been listed on my salary paper?

There are more things that seem a bit fishy, but that would be way too long. Even if my instinct tells me "run!!!", I can't since my visa is tied to this job and I don't know how easy/hard it is to change a job w/o getting visa + wp cut and redone all over again. Also, I'm a bit concerned that I might get kicked out anyway in case my boss won't stand by me and makes sure that I can focus on my job w/o any bs and drama.

So yeah, that's about it... If anyone has some advice, I'd very much appreciate it. But please, spare me those comments "Welcome to Thailand" etc.., they aren't really helpful in my situation. Anyways, thanks for reading though.

[theblether]

I don't have any personal experience of the situation you are in however I do have friends that have found it relatively straightforward to change jobs in regards to the Work Permit situation, it's an inconvenience, not a disaster.

It seems to me that your feeling a bit isolated and picked on, office politics can go that direction anywhere in the World but that doesn't help when you are at the centre of the storm. My advice? suck it up and start quietly looking for a new job. It seems things have gone sour at your current work place and once that happens things rarely turn for the better.

It's a disappointment, not a calamity, we all have them and you'll be fine at the end of it.

[Neeranam]

It really depends on how good the salary is. Seems like a lot of work to me. I work 3 hours a day(2 on Friday), finishing at 1pm at the latest and get 4 months +off a year plus a two month bonus! only 40k but...time to make more with all the time off. One reason I came to Thailand was because I hate working hard.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Neeranam

[mogandave]

I'd recommend getting in on time, that would stop a lot of the resentments your coworkers seem to have.

You do need to decide if you want to stick with it or move on.

Keep track of your OT if you're not management, and if you get fired, you can go to the labor department and they will help you collect.

Life's too short to work at a job you hate. That said, if it were fun, you'd have to give them the money. It's not fun, it's work.

[pxlgirl]

Neeranam, my salary is much less than yours for my 5 days per week full time job, but as long as I enjoy my work, I have nice people around me... or at least people who just leave me alone and let me do my work. As long as I'm able to support myself, I'm good to go, my lifestyle has always been rather simple anyway.

I have to figure out what's the best way to find something new and most importantly, not step in the same puddle of mud again. Just in case any of you knows someone... lemme know, I'll then pm my portfolio etc... (rather not post it here so it won't look like spam or so)

[pxlgirl]

Keep track of your OT if you're not management, and if you get fired, you can go to the labor department and they will help you collect.

Sorry, I don't quite get this, what do you mean by labour department? It's not the ministry if labor, is it? And how could they help me anyway? If you mean the HR, things are a bit complicated, since work in an institute that is within an academic facility.

[Neeranam]

Neeranam, my salary is much less than yours for my 5 days per week full time job, but as long as I enjoy my work, I have nice people around me... or at least people who just leave me alone and let me do my work. As long as I'm able to support myself, I'm good to go, my lifestyle has always been rather simple anyway.

I have to figure out what's the best way to find something new and most importantly, not step in the same puddle of mud again. Just in case any of you knows someone... lemme know, I'll then pm my portfolio etc... (rather not post it here so it won't look like spam or so)

I used to work my ass off when I first came to Thailand, I guess it's part of the learning curve. When you find something better you'll appreciate it more. And of course if it's good for the CV, then it can be worth doing a low-paid job for a while.

In this country, it's really who you know( a lot more than the West) - try to make a lot of friends.

[StreetCowboy]

I could be happy

Keep your eyes out for a better job. Big ears and a quick volunteering-hand have always stood me in good stead from when I was a paper-boy till today

SC

[MiG16]

I assume you are in Thailand. Thai labour law grants thirty days of sick leave per year. As long as you provide proper certificates from doctors, your employer can't deny you the thirty days per year.

Minimum vacation by law is six days.

Hope this helps.

Ohhh and yes there is compulsory social security deduction. It has ranged from 4 to 6 per cent in recent years (can't remember exactly the percent, but capped at 750 bht per month - from employer and employee each)

[TerryLH]

"...social security deduction. It has ranged from 4 to 6 per cent in recent years (can't remember exactly the percent, but capped at 750 bht per month - from employer and employee each) .

It's 5%

"...was told that the other 600 THB are for social security, but shouldn't that have been listed on my salary paper"

It was always listed when I worked.

600 baht indicates that you make 12,000 baht a month.

If that's not your salary, and you don't have a card (see below) and the deduction is not listed on your pay slip, it would make me suspicious that the money is going in someones pocket, and not to SS.

Tax filing is by end of March. By the end of January your employer is supposed to give you a form showing all your earned income and all deductions, itemized.

After three months of SS payments you should have received a Social Security card and been given the name of the hospital that you can get free (for almost everything) medical coverage.

If you haven't been given a card yet, and it's over three months, the Social Security Office can help you. They are normally very helpful to employees, especially when employers are trying to take advantage of you.

Good luck

Terry

[Soutpeel]

Keep track of your OT if you're not management, and if you get fired, you can go to the labor department and they will help you collect.

Sorry, I don't quite get this, what do you mean by labour department? It's not the ministry if labor, is it? And how could they help me anyway? If you mean the HR, things are a bit complicated, since work in an institute that is within an academic facility.

The labour act is enforceable irrespective where you work, and the DOL, (department of labour) enforces those rules and are very pro-employee, if you are working overtime typically you should be getting paid for this in most instances.

Also read "MiG16's" post this is spot on info and it appears your employer is in contravention of the Thai labour law, therefore you have a case

[canman]

Good advice from Soutpeel, the DOL will help if you need them too. You may not want to go down that road yet but you should be documenting everything in as much detail as possible so that you have recourse in the future. All of your salary deductions should appear on your payslip, if they are not then someone is stealing from you.

[Soutpeel]

Good advice from Soutpeel, the DOL will help if you need them too. You may not want to go down that road yet but you should be documenting everything in as much detail as possible so that you have recourse in the future. All of your salary deductions should appear on your payslip, if they are not then someone is stealing from you.

But the one thing thats needed to point out with DOL, generally if you resign from a position over T&C's etc etc...they will not look at your claim, except in cases were its to do with serverance

[Stradavarius37]

She said she works at an institute within an academic facility - if I read that as being a university - universities fall under a different set of regulations and are not covered by the labor department.

[Soutpeel]

She said she works at an institute within an academic facility - if I read that as being a university - universities fall under a different set of regulations and are not covered by the labor department.

Per the 1998 English version of the Labour act the only exclusions from the act are, and I quote

Section 4. This Act shall not apply to

• (1) The central government administration, provincial government administration and local government administration.
  
• (2) State enterprises under the law governing state enterprise labour relations.
  

Universities are not even mentioned

The other test of this...does the OP have a WP, ie the blue book ?....if so who is this issued by ?....The DOL.

[dave111223]

There are some issues that you should sort out:

- Any money deducted from your salary should certainly be listed on your salary slip (ie if it's social security, tax or whatever it should be listed)

- If you are consistently asked to do overtime (more than 30 minutes per day) you should certainly ask them to record this time and pay you overtime.

However there a few things that are kind of make me think you could be (or considered to be) a "problem employee"...

Why do you choose to live 1 1/2 hours away from your work? If one of my employees used that reason when constantly late or leaving early i'd say "Move Closer"

Why are you no longer willing to do half your job? Seems pretty weird; if one of my employees randomly came to me and said "I'm no longer willing to do XYZ of my job", i'd show them where the door is.

Why should you're boss have to constantly explain to other employees why you (the special one) are able to come and go as you please? No crap they don't want to deal with that, and let you deal with it instead.

Edited January 15, 2013 by dave111223

[scorecard]

There are some issues that you should sort out:

- Any money deducted from your salary should certainly be listed on your salary slip (ie if it's social security, tax or whatever it should be listed)

- If you are consistently asked to do overtime (more than 30 minutes per day) you should certainly ask them to record this time and pay you overtime.

However there a few things that are kind of make me think you could be (or considered to be) a "problem employee"...

Why do you choose to live 1 1/2 hours away from your work? If one of my employees used that reason when constantly late or leaving early i'd say "Move Closer"

Why are you no longer willing to do half your job? Seems pretty weird; if one of my employees randomly came to me and said "I'm no longer willing to do XYZ of my job", i'd show them where the door is.

Why should you're boss have to constantly explain to other employees why you (the special one) are able to come and go as you please? No crap they don't want to deal with that, and let you deal with it instead.

Additionally:

- I just wonder whether you like drama.

- Your employed on a work permit (means your not Thai, your a foreigner) in a Thai educational institute, part of your job is / was / is / was design work (designing what?). And other part?

- You seem to have special arrangements about work times?

- Your boss has played hell and nasty with the annual leave and sick entitlements in your contract.

All sounds strange to me, I have worked as an academic in several thai universities, all with work permits.

The number of foreigners on contract (with WP) in Thai universities (and somehow my guess is the situation would be the same for any Thai educational institute) outside of straight lecturing duties is very very small.

Examples:

1. Director of MBA International programs plus lecturing. Director of Doctoral studies open to Thai and International students plus lecturing, all at one of Thailand so called prestigious unis.

2. Director of MBA International programs plus lecturing, at one of Thailand so called prestigious unis.

None of the above include annual holiday entitlements, although there is often a private agreement about some specific time off.

In my experience Thai mainstream universities never play games with contracts or entitlements.

In my experience Thai educational institutions are very Thai and not interested in having foreign employes (apart from lecturers), plus the management of such places would usually be quite frightened of the backlash from Thai staff if they attempted to employ foreigners.

There are thousands of qualified / experienced / clever Thai designers (website designers / whatever designers) in Thailand, why would they need to employ a foreigner.

I rather doubt that 'designer' is on the official list of jobs which non Thais are allowed to take up.

Edited January 15, 2013 by scorecard

[pxlgirl]

Just do clarify about the working times, there are no "special" arrangements in a sense that I can come and go as I'm pleased. My normal days are usually 9 - 5, if it gets later due to traffic (which is never more than 15 min), I add the time so I can keep my 8h of working time, which is the normal amount of hours for a full time job. If I manage to come earlier, lets say 8, then I'd stay till 4. Sometimes I stay longer so I can finish something to be able to move on to another task for the next day. Moving "closer" isn't a good idea, since the job isn't secure enough for me, besides I'm living with my partner and I also need assistance with a few health related issues. Some more background info: I'm the only designer there, my work isn't connected in any way to my co-workers as they organize and schedule all the courses etc. I have no one to work with, I'm doing my stuff pretty much on my own. My co-workers however would stay in office often up till 9pm, their overtime is being unpaid. Yet even with my normal working schedule, co-workers would be a bit surprised that I won't stay so long (which I wouldn't even if I lived close). I never had any trouble in my previous job, but I wasn't able to stay there because the salary was a bit too low to be able to pay my bills and put enough food on the table. Apart from all, I get all my tasks done on time, results are as good as they can be, as the existing design bases aren't exactly professional, but people just stick to their stuff, even when it's sh*tty.

Edited January 15, 2013 by pxlgirl

[pxlgirl]

Oops, I can't edit my post anymore, so here comes another post. I forgot to add one comment regarding the interest of Thais hiring foreigners. Why would a foreigner never ever be able to get a job in their field apart from lecturing in Thailand? The locals vs. foreigners thing can be found pretty much all over the world, but it doesn't mean that it's impossible to find a job in the country of choice. If it was the case, no foreigners could ever settle down in another country, let it even be Thais in some western countries. And no, designer is not on the list of "not permitted" jobs in Thailand.

[GreenSnapper]

If working is too hard for you, why not just marry and cook tasty meals for your husband?

[pxlgirl]

If working is too hard for you, why not just marry and cook tasty meals for your husband?

WT...? Where did I say that working is too hard for me? You should read my posts more carefully, but in case I've said something that was misunderstood, please feel free to point it out.

[scorecard]

Oops, I can't edit my post anymore, so here comes another post. I forgot to add one comment regarding the interest of Thais hiring foreigners. Why would a foreigner never ever be able to get a job in their field apart from lecturing in Thailand? The locals vs. foreigners thing can be found pretty much all over the world, but it doesn't mean that it's impossible to find a job in the country of choice. If it was the case, no foreigners could ever settle down in another country, let it even be Thais in some western countries. And no, designer is not on the list of "not permitted" jobs in Thailand.

Well good luck if you think you can rewrite the Thai attitudes and the Thai law on this subject, or of course you can just ignore it, but not sure how that can coexist with Thai work permits.

In reality,many countries have lists of occupations in which 'foreigners' can / cannot work.

'Designer' could mean many things, perhaps you could explain a little.

[pxlgirl]

'Designer' could mean many things, perhaps you could explain a little.

My actual profession is called "communication designer", most people can't relate to it, there are a few other terms such as "creative director" but I'm honestly not a big fan of those ego-boost-terms. Long story short, I basically develop concepts for a given project, adjusting the accurate media form to deliver a certain message. So I have a long way to go before any pixel can be pushed.

[MiG16]

Just a note to remind to stay on topic. More precisely you can leave the chauvinistic remark out of this.

[scorecard]

'Designer' could mean many things, perhaps you could explain a little.

My actual profession is called "communication designer", most people can't relate to it, there are a few other terms such as "creative director" but I'm honestly not a big fan of those ego-boost-terms. Long story short, I basically develop concepts for a given project, adjusting the accurate media form to deliver a certain message. So I have a long way to go before any pixel can be pushed.

Well for a 'communications designer' / person 'adjusting the media form to deliver a certain message' you sure don't display that in your verbose posts which take up lines and lines which say very little and leave the reader confused and uninformed of anything of substance.

And your saying that a Thai university or a Thai Education institution has numerous 'projects' (numerous indicating the need for a full time position to just decide 'the media form'), and your so clever they would employ you ahead of a Thai (lots of creative Thais around who are excellent at communication arts) and the Thai staff would accept that.

And you say they (the education instutute within an education institute) are stealing your holidays.

Troll, bye.

Edited January 15, 2013 by scorecard

[TerryLH]

"I rather doubt that 'designer' is on the official list of jobs which non Thais are allowed to take up."

Does such a list even exist?

[StreetCowboy]

"I rather doubt that 'designer' is on the official list of jobs which non Thais are allowed to take up."

Does such a list even exist?

No. There is a list of prohibited occupations which non-Thais are not allowed to take up.

SC

[bangkokburning]

Thais are often expected to work long hours for no extra pay. In fact, this is standard for low rnd management jobs in us as well. They make you a "supervisor" on salary then give you an extra ten hours lowering you pph by 25%.

My wife works an extra ten hoursva week easy. Im bullshit over it, but its not like she has other options. She has staked her claim at this company and it is not easy for Thai gen office workers to start over. Hell, she does not even have FTE status yet - this year we hope.

So suck it up if you want to work hete and stop being such a drama queen. You are not teaching English <deleted>.

[pxlgirl]

Jeez, I never said I have a problem doing overtime per se, unless there is stuff to be done, that's totally fine with me. But does that mean I have to stay longer just for the sake of it apart from staying there pretty much for free?

[yannic]

Why don't you go back to your country? Or look for another job, your not happy you leave its that easy, one way or the other. I really don't understand why some people do everything even low low paid jobs, terrible working conditions and so on just to live in these expensive country?