Just Told My 800K For Retirement Can't Be Moved Between Banks

[inquisitive]

@Inquisitive:

You say you've been here "umpteen" years, yet you are surprisingly unsympathetic to the Thai civil servants who have to process scores of extensions every day for us ex-pat retirees.

Try to understand that we are allowed to stay here at the pleasure of the Immigration officers, not out of some right or privilege.

When you spread your 800K among three accounts, and shift the funds, you are at least tripling the paperwork and verification tasks that have to be processed by the official. (It is not a question of math or math ability.) You are making her life more difficult, regardless of what the assigned task is.

So, as JT suggests, be a helpful guy and make things as easy as possible for the Immo officer you see -- that little bit of goodwill will have ripple effects.

I commend your sympathetic attitude toward others, and I wish somehow we could spread it around a bit more. The world would be a nicer place. That having been said, I don't consider it unsympathetic of me to expect my stock broker to be able to tell me the price of a stock and which way it is moving. I don't hide symptoms from my doctor just to keep from making his diagnosis more difficult. I don't tell my kids' teachers that it's ok to hit them with a metal rod even though it will make their job of disipline easier. I expect my banker to tell me the best way to have my money grow in his bank. And I expect my immigration clerk to be able to fulfil the requirements of her job, even if it might be easier for her if I just skipped the whole process entirely and went to some othe country.

Your sentiments are admirable, but as always the problem is drawing the lines. At what point do I change from being a nice guy to a chump? Is it when I lose a hundred dollars that I could have made by moving money from one account one single time but didn't do it because I felt it might be, well, too much trouble for some immigration officer? Or is it when I lose a thousand?

Or to look at it from the other perspective, how much do you feel a customer should do to keep the waiter at a restaurant from working too hard when you pay the bill? Exact change is nice, of course, but most of us would feel that paying by using 3-4 bills would be ok, even if the waiter has to bring you back some change in the end. On the other hand, paying for dinner using only pennies woud clearly be bad form.

So, was asking the nice lady at the counter to add up three numbers too much, or was I a bore by using the bank book at all as she suggested? Perhaps I should feel obligated to pay the US Embassy $50 each year for an income verification so that some nice lady at immigration shouldn't have to strain herself and use the calculator that sits at her elbow (which she used in this case anyway to figure out if $9,000 US dollars a month was more than 65,000 baht. I ended up straining her thinking muscles in the end anyway, even doing it her way, showing that sometimes you simply can't win).

So I guess the point is that you and I agree that we shouldn't be obnoxious or demanding or impatient with our hosts, but we simply don't see eye to eye as to how much we expect them to do their job. I feel that simply showing up with high hair each morning isn't enough. I expect them to know the currency conversion factor each day (they can write it down each morning if they want). I expect they can read Thai, I expect they can use a simple calculator, and I expect they must know and follow the rules. Hey, it might even be nice if they returned my smiles, but it's ok with me if they just do their job. Anything less is not appropriate, and they should not be representing the Thai government or Thailand's wonderful people. While I was in there, they were the face of Thailand, and if I were their (Thai) boss I would have a word or two with them.

The age of blaming the victim for getting raped has passed in most of the world. And while I should be expected to be a good guest, I should equally expect to have a decent host. If she can't do her job, then she shouldn't be there. Or am I wrong?

[Jingthing]

It isn't particularly helpful to expect western levels of customer service at Thai immigration. They are police. In some ways, we are all suspects. They work for Thailand, not us, and for the most part they didn't graduate at the top of their class. It's a matter of making adjustments to the power structures here just to make things smooth. Not a matter of right or wrong or high ethics and principles. As my Dad used to say (prophetically), you have to bend, bring vaseline (strange man).

[inquisitive]

It isn't particularly helpful to expect western levels of customer service at Thai immigration. They are police. In some ways, we are all suspects. They work for Thailand, not us, and for the most part they didn't graduate at the top of their class. It's a matter of making adjustments to the power structures here just to make things smooth. Not a matter of right or wrong or high ethics and principles. As my Dad used to say (prophetically), you have to bend, bring vaseline (strange man).

I suspect you've hit the nail on the head. Sometimes the farmer just has to adjust to the weather because the weather surely isn't going to adjust to him. Sort of like that mantra "Lord, give me the strength to change the things that can be changed, the patience to accept those things that cannot be changed, and the wisdom to know the difference." So long as we don't blame the customer for the civil servants' failings, I have to agree with you on this.

[David48]

Depends on the immirgation officer, but others have reported no problem when changing the account where they kep the money in. The rules don't say it needs to be the same bank, so someone higer up the chain of command might have overruled her.

US embassy requires you to have the affadivid printed out, but not signed. You sign in front of the consular officer. No proof of income is required by the embassy.

Letters in English language do normally not have to be translated into Thai. Certainly not at CW-road.

Thats a great system the USA have if only the British Embassey made it so easy.

So you are saying that you could lie to your (UK) Embassy (as no proof is required re the income) ... then don't have to sign the lie ... and that is a better system?

[David48]

I sympathize with the OP who carefully and logically dealt with his banking needs in a way which conformed to the stated requirements.

I also sympathize with the Immigration officer, who has to deal every day with people that try to scam her on this issue, exercising her prerogative to reject the evidence provided. She is not obligated to "do the math".

To the contrary, she is paid to do the math. That is her job. If she is not up to the task, she should be working somewhere else.

... I stopped reading after that.

[kriswillems]

If a Thai government officer is unreasonable discussing things almost never helps. Last time I tried to discuss things I got the answer that in the end the government officer decides and that she had the power to set her own rules. The best way is to go back on another day an try to let your case handle by another officer. This has helped on on several occasions.

Sometimes you also have to swallow your pride and go for whatever stupid demand they have, just because it might be the easiest way out.

(PS. I had very little problems with immigration, but much more problems will all other officers, because they are unaware of the rights of foreigners in Thailand).

[David48]

It isn't particularly helpful to expect western levels of customer service at Thai immigration. They are police. In some ways, we are all suspects. They work for Thailand, not us, and for the most part they didn't graduate at the top of their class. It's a matter of making adjustments to the power structures here just to make things smooth. Not a matter of right or wrong or high ethics and principles. As my Dad used to say (prophetically), you have to bend, bring vaseline (strange man).

Jingthing ... I was nodding in approval when I read "It isn't particularly helpful to expect western levels of customer service at Thai immigration." ... I wished I'd stopped reading after that.

[marstons]

@Inquisitive:

You say you've been here "umpteen" years, yet you are surprisingly unsympathetic to the Thai civil servants who have to process scores of extensions every day for us ex-pat retirees.

Try to understand that we are allowed to stay here at the pleasure of the Immigration officers, not out of some right or privilege.

When you spread your 800K among three accounts, and shift the funds, you are at least tripling the paperwork and verification tasks that have to be processed by the official. (It is not a question of math or math ability.) You are making her life more difficult, regardless of what the assigned task is.

So, as JT suggests, be a helpful guy and make things as easy as possible for the Immo officer you see -- that little bit of goodwill will have ripple effects.

I commend your sympathetic attitude toward others, and I wish somehow we could spread it around a bit more. The world would be a nicer place. That having been said, I don't consider it unsympathetic of me to expect my stock broker to be able to tell me the price of a stock and which way it is moving. I don't hide symptoms from my doctor just to keep from making his diagnosis more difficult. I don't tell my kids' teachers that it's ok to hit them with a metal rod even though it will make their job of disipline easier. I expect my banker to tell me the best way to have my money grow in his bank. And I expect my immigration clerk to be able to fulfil the requirements of her job, even if it might be easier for her if I just skipped the whole process entirely and went to some othe country.

Your sentiments are admirable, but as always the problem is drawing the lines. At what point do I change from being a nice guy to a chump? Is it when I lose a hundred dollars that I could have made by moving money from one account one single time but didn't do it because I felt it might be, well, too much trouble for some immigration officer? Or is it when I lose a thousand?

Or to look at it from the other perspective, how much do you feel a customer should do to keep the waiter at a restaurant from working too hard when you pay the bill? Exact change is nice, of course, but most of us would feel that paying by using 3-4 bills would be ok, even if the waiter has to bring you back some change in the end. On the other hand, paying for dinner using only pennies woud clearly be bad form.

So, was asking the nice lady at the counter to add up three numbers too much, or was I a bore by using the bank book at all as she suggested? Perhaps I should feel obligated to pay the US Embassy $50 each year for an income verification so that some nice lady at immigration shouldn't have to strain herself and use the calculator that sits at her elbow (which she used in this case anyway to figure out if $9,000 US dollars a month was more than 65,000 baht. I ended up straining her thinking muscles in the end anyway, even doing it her way, showing that sometimes you simply can't win).

So I guess the point is that you and I agree that we shouldn't be obnoxious or demanding or impatient with our hosts, but we simply don't see eye to eye as to how much we expect them to do their job. I feel that simply showing up with high hair each morning isn't enough. I expect them to know the currency conversion factor each day (they can write it down each morning if they want). I expect they can read Thai, I expect they can use a simple calculator, and I expect they must know and follow the rules. Hey, it might even be nice if they returned my smiles, but it's ok with me if they just do their job. Anything less is not appropriate, and they should not be representing the Thai government or Thailand's wonderful people. While I was in there, they were the face of Thailand, and if I were their (Thai) boss I would have a word or two with them.

The age of blaming the victim for getting raped has passed in most of the world. And while I should be expected to be a good guest, I should equally expect to have a decent host. If she can't do her job, then she shouldn't be there. Or am I wrong?

i once went to get extension with 400,000k in the bank for 3 months (married) and letter from the bank, i knew the immigration officer in Samui for a few years, he was having a bad day, he told me he wanted proof of income as well 40,000 per month. I smiled said ok, deep down i would loved to have put a red hot poker up his rectum, but he was calling the shots so i just did it. He then asked for 5k not the 1900 baht. He was and is known for that also. TIT

[Maestro]

I have deleted some off-topic posts and a flame and the replies to them.

[inquisitive]

Actually ... the OP deserves a decent answer and debate and maybe JT and I have taken the degrees of separation a little away from the intent and focal point of the OP, that being of the perceived poor customer service received by the guests of the kingdom.

My experience dealing with the Immigration Dept' has been overwhelming positive ...

So I shall take the suggestion of a few above and cease reading and writing (assuming peace is declared) and to the OP inquisitive ... you are OK ... took a robust debate well.

Maybe we'll bend JT over another day (see post #33) ... but I'll leave that to a better man then me ...

I vote for peace. And FWIW, the OP was not so much aimed at venting about or discussing poor service, but rather to get some quick feedback to help decide what to do. As I reported, I took the advice, paid my fifty bucks at the American Embassy which is a little like using the vaseline, but also went back prepared with tables and charts. I'm happy to report that the tables and charts were not needed, our collective understanding of the rules was correct, and unfortunately our collective understanding of how the Immigration Office works is apparantly on target.

Now for just one more observation and a little bit of advice: I have always received good service and almost always even received cheery attitudes at Immigration. This time my lady had been quite the charmer with the gentleman she served right before lunch. I was the next one up, and she never smiled and even seemed a bit argumentative. I think something happened during lunch, or maybe she just ate too much. Who knows?

The advice is in how ths situation was handled. I agree with an earlier poster that it should only be a very last resort to try to get the official to admit they are wrong. Almost always it's wasted effort. So instead I asked if I should see her personally when I came back with my shiny letter. That made her feel important, and also set her up for rhe next question, which was whether there was some way to NOT have to spend all day waiting. I said that it was rough on the little one I was carting around. Her answer was that I could come alone ... but the trap had been sprung.

Today, because I was held captive at the American Embassy I arrived to CW to get # 71 in line. It was 11 AM and they were only up to #35 and lunch startd in half an hour. So wearing my tie (as always), I parked myself outside her cubicle, and the first break she had I went in with papers in hand. I lowered my head a bit and said that she had told me to come to her when I got the paper. I asked if I should leave them with her now. She asked me what number I had and I told her. I said I was late because it took so long at the embassy. She said to wait outside, and then completely ignored me for the next two people.

Finally, with five minutes to go before lunch break, I saw another opening and I went back in. I said I didn't want to be a pest, but did she want me to wait or come back in the afternoon? She looked disgusted, but took a deep breath and asked for my papers. Bottom line: I got taken care of about 34 people earlier than I was scheduled.

So the moral of the story is to not lose your cool, and be thinking of what comes next BEFORE you leave. It was still a major pain in the butt, and an unnecessary expense, and she is still unqualified for her job, but by playing the game smoothly, you don't always have to lose so badly.

Thanks again to everyone for their advice.

[watcharacters]

I'm surprised you didn't get hit up for a "small fee to do a personal favor".

[lopburi3]

As the OP has reported extension obtained, and original title was misleading so should not be used by others, will close this topic after removal of yet more flames/off-topic nonsense.